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Post by unionstation82 on Sept 26, 2021 13:31:17 GMT -6
Lost in the shuffle is how bunting is an effective way to move runners when the next hitter is a run producer. It’s also a valuable skill to have when you absolutely need a baserunner in a close game. However, it isn’t desirable to the current stat geeks because it isn’t “new school” enough. When a bunt works for the desired result it's great. I don't know a lot about it (and I think bunting still has value), but apparently it's more often not helpful than it is helpful. It also isn’t helpful that this team outside of Gurriel doesn’t know what a sac fly is. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Sept 26, 2021 13:31:33 GMT -6
Lost in the shuffle is how bunting is an effective way to move runners when the next hitter is a run producer. It’s also a valuable skill to have when you absolutely need a baserunner in a close game. However, it isn’t desirable to the current stat geeks because it isn’t “new school” enough. When a bunt works for the desired result it's great. I don't know a lot about it (and I think bunting still has value), but apparently it's more often not helpful than it is helpful. It could be helpful if players were taught to bunt, and, then call for the bunt in the right situation.......not with the nine hitter who is hitting .175 coming up. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Sept 26, 2021 15:21:48 GMT -6
As they say on the internet: Correlation does not imply causation. So you're saying that hitting the ball hard doesn't have a pretty direct correlation to offensive production? Players that hit the ball weakly are more likely to get hits? Interesting take! what I am saying is that there are so many hard hit balls that don't amount to shit that that "stat" seems pretty worthless, despite the fact that a few hard hitters happen to be successful at baseball. Baseball history is rife with big galoots who would hit the ball as hard as possible (ie. extremely hard) every time and end up batting .120 with a few HRs. Several of them are sitting at home because of it (including Chris Carter) |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Sept 26, 2021 15:24:31 GMT -6
Also, a ball hit to a fielder at 150 mph is no more valuable than a dribbler hit to a fielder at 35 mph.
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Post by unionstation82 on Sept 26, 2021 15:33:13 GMT -6
Also, a ball hit to a fielder at 150 mph is no more valuable than a dribbler hit to a fielder at 35 mph. ***** My point exactly. |
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Post by Saint on Sept 26, 2021 15:35:35 GMT -6
So you're saying that hitting the ball hard doesn't have a pretty direct correlation to offensive production? Players that hit the ball weakly are more likely to get hits? Interesting take! what I am saying is that there are so many hard hit balls that don't amount to shit that that "stat" seems pretty worthless, despite the fact that a few hard hitters happen to be successful at baseball. Baseball history is rife with big galoots who would hit the ball as hard as possible (ie. extremely hard) every time and end up batting .120 with a few HRs. Several of them are sitting at home because of it (including Chris Carter) It's not just a "few hard hitters" though. And the majority of them are not Chris Carters. They're Yordans and Vlads and Judges and Tuckers. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Sept 26, 2021 15:46:25 GMT -6
what I am saying is that there are so many hard hit balls that don't amount to shit that that "stat" seems pretty worthless, despite the fact that a few hard hitters happen to be successful at baseball. Baseball history is rife with big galoots who would hit the ball as hard as possible (ie. extremely hard) every time and end up batting .120 with a few HRs. Several of them are sitting at home because of it (including Chris Carter) It's not just a "few hard hitters" though. And the majority of them are not Chris Carters. They're Yordans and Vlads and Judges and Tuckers. So you attribute all of their success to how hard they hit the ball? |
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Post by Saint on Sept 26, 2021 15:49:06 GMT -6
It's not just a "few hard hitters" though. And the majority of them are not Chris Carters. They're Yordans and Vlads and Judges and Tuckers. So you attribute all of their success to how hard they hit the ball? Of course not, but it's just physics that if you hit the ball hard more often that you're going to have more success. The ball goes further, gets thru gaps quicker, fielders have less time to react. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Sept 26, 2021 17:25:59 GMT -6
So you attribute all of their success to how hard they hit the ball? Of course not, but it's just physics that if you hit the ball hard more often that you're going to have more success. The ball goes further, gets thru gaps quicker, fielders have less time to react. But in reality, more hard-hit balls end up as outs than as runs. |
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Post by Saint on Sept 27, 2021 11:36:21 GMT -6
Of course not, but it's just physics that if you hit the ball hard more often that you're going to have more success. The ball goes further, gets thru gaps quicker, fielders have less time to react. But in reality, more hard-hit balls end up as outs than as runs. Not as often as weak-hit balls. Why is this even an argument? Okay, you don't think exit velocity is important. But do you really think it's NOT important to hit the ball hard? There's no benefit to it? I feel like I'm arguing with Corch. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Sept 27, 2021 14:14:54 GMT -6
But in reality, more hard-hit balls end up as outs than as runs. Not as often as weak-hit balls. Why is this even an argument? Okay, you don't think exit velocity is important. But do you really think it's NOT important to hit the ball hard? There's no benefit to it? I feel like I'm arguing with Corch. Corch agrees with you 100%. I wish we had the numbers showing how many weak hit balls end up as home runs as compared to the number of hard hit balls. You can make an out on both, but, I think it should be evident that the best hitters are those who hit the ball hard more often. They will all get some weak hit base hits from time to time just like some hard hit balls are caught. When you are right, I agree with you. But, when you say stupid things like it's OK for players to give less than 100% effort during games, I will never think that is OK. And, we saw that for the entire weekend in Oakland. |
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Post by Saint on Sept 27, 2021 14:20:09 GMT -6
Not as often as weak-hit balls. Why is this even an argument? Okay, you don't think exit velocity is important. But do you really think it's NOT important to hit the ball hard? There's no benefit to it? I feel like I'm arguing with Corch. Corch agrees with you 100%. I wish we had the numbers showing how many weak hit balls end up as home runs as compared to the number of hard hit balls. You can make an out on both, but, I think it should be evident that the best hitters are those who hit the ball hard more often. They will all get some weak hit base hits from time to time just like some hard hit balls are caught. When you are right, I agree with you. But, when you say stupid things like it's OK for players to give less than 100% effort during games, I will never think that is OK. And, we saw that for the entire weekend in Oakland. They just had a 17-game streak with no time off in the final month of the regular season and finished it on the road. That was always going to be a rough series for them. Thankfully, they built such a big lead in the division it won't matter. As for not giving 100%, you're exaggerating my stance. My point was that it's okay for them to try and rest players and not kill themselves over these remaining regular season games. Unless you want more players to join Brantley and Greinke on the IL right before the postseason. What's the point of another great regular season if we get smoked in the ALDS because players are hurt and exhausted? |
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Post by blcoach8 on Sept 27, 2021 14:57:30 GMT -6
Corch agrees with you 100%. I wish we had the numbers showing how many weak hit balls end up as home runs as compared to the number of hard hit balls. You can make an out on both, but, I think it should be evident that the best hitters are those who hit the ball hard more often. They will all get some weak hit base hits from time to time just like some hard hit balls are caught. When you are right, I agree with you. But, when you say stupid things like it's OK for players to give less than 100% effort during games, I will never think that is OK. And, we saw that for the entire weekend in Oakland. They just had a 17-game streak with no time off in the final month of the regular season and finished it on the road. That was always going to be a rough series for them. Thankfully, they built such a big lead in the division it won't matter. As for not giving 100%, you're exaggerating my stance. My point was that it's okay for them to try and rest players and not kill themselves over these remaining regular season games. Unless you want more players to join Brantley and Greinke on the IL right before the postseason. What's the point of another great regular season if we get smoked in the ALDS because players are hurt and exhausted? My point is that the time to rest players is AFTER the division is clinched. Resting guys who are hitting has seldom worked out. Dusty normally rests those guys and keeps those who are not hitting in the lineup which makes no sense. Diaz looks awful right now so get him his ABs after we clinch. For some reason, Dusty seems to have fallen in love with Siri and is hurting Meyers in the process. Both are in slumps but Meyers is clearly the better all around player. |
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Post by Saint on Sept 27, 2021 15:23:30 GMT -6
They just had a 17-game streak with no time off in the final month of the regular season and finished it on the road. That was always going to be a rough series for them. Thankfully, they built such a big lead in the division it won't matter. As for not giving 100%, you're exaggerating my stance. My point was that it's okay for them to try and rest players and not kill themselves over these remaining regular season games. Unless you want more players to join Brantley and Greinke on the IL right before the postseason. What's the point of another great regular season if we get smoked in the ALDS because players are hurt and exhausted? My point is that the time to rest players is AFTER the division is clinched. Resting guys who are hitting has seldom worked out. Dusty normally rests those guys and keeps those who are not hitting in the lineup which makes no sense. Diaz looks awful right now so get him his ABs after we clinch. For some reason, Dusty seems to have fallen in love with Siri and is hurting Meyers in the process. Both are in slumps but Meyers is clearly the better all around player. Sports science, when it comes to maintaining health, has shown that some load management and rest along the way throughout the season is beneficial in preventing injuries. We may want players to play everyday and think they should just man up and deal with it, but we're not the ones who have invested millions of the dollars into having them get us deep into the postseason. |
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Post by Ashitaka on Sept 27, 2021 21:51:17 GMT -6
I think people are looking at it too black-and-white. Exit velocity isn't a be-all, end-all stat. But that doesn't mean it's worthless either. Like most stats, it's best used as just one component you look at. Generally speaking, hitting the ball hard is good. There is indeed a direct correlation between hitting the ball hard consistently and having success as a hitter. That's why it's cited; much like BAbip, it can be used to predict what might happen in the future, I.E. you would not expect a guy who is near the top of the league in exit velocity to continue struggling to get hits, but you shouldn't be shocked if he does, because exit velocity is just one factor.
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Post by unionstation82 on Sept 27, 2021 22:09:49 GMT -6
I think people are looking at it too black-and-white. Exit velocity isn't a be-all, end-all stat. But that doesn't mean it's worthless either. Like most stats, it's best used as just one component you look at. Generally speaking, hitting the ball hard is good. There is indeed a direct correlation between hitting the ball hard consistently and having success as a hitter. That's why it's cited; much like BAbip, it can be used to predict what might happen in the future, I.E. you would not expect a guy who is near the top of the league in exit velocity to continue struggling to get hits, but you shouldn't be shocked if he does, because exit velocity is just one factor. No one’s saying it’s worthless. They’re saying it’s overrated just like BABIP. |
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Post by Saint on Sept 28, 2021 8:10:35 GMT -6
I think people are looking at it too black-and-white. Exit velocity isn't a be-all, end-all stat. But that doesn't mean it's worthless either. Like most stats, it's best used as just one component you look at. Generally speaking, hitting the ball hard is good. There is indeed a direct correlation between hitting the ball hard consistently and having success as a hitter. That's why it's cited; much like BAbip, it can be used to predict what might happen in the future, I.E. you would not expect a guy who is near the top of the league in exit velocity to continue struggling to get hits, but you shouldn't be shocked if he does, because exit velocity is just one factor. No one’s saying it’s worthless. They’re saying it’s overrated just like BABIP. Bortaz: "that "stat" seems pretty worthless" |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Sept 28, 2021 17:26:46 GMT -6
No one’s saying it’s worthless. They’re saying it’s overrated just like BABIP. Bortaz: "that "stat" seems pretty worthless" No one cares what I say. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Sept 28, 2021 17:28:04 GMT -6
Bortaz: "that "stat" seems pretty worthless" No one cares what I say. This whole conversation came about because you say some version of "they hit it hard, but got nothing to show for it" 5 or 10 times a game, Saint |
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Post by Saint on Sept 28, 2021 18:17:38 GMT -6
This whole conversation came about because you say some version of "they hit it hard, but got nothing to show for it" 5 or 10 times a game, SaintAnd? |
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Post by thomasj13 on Sept 28, 2021 18:18:41 GMT -6
Bortaz: "that "stat" seems pretty worthless" No one cares what I say. You has me at No. |
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Post by abregmanfan on Sept 29, 2021 14:05:47 GMT -6
Bortaz: "that "stat" seems pretty worthless" No one cares what I say. Sure people care what you say. Some just don't know how to show it... |
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Post by blcoach8 on Sept 29, 2021 14:51:07 GMT -6
Sure people care what you say. Some just don't know how to show it... Speak for yourself, Breggie. |
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Post by bearbryant on Sept 29, 2021 15:14:22 GMT -6
Sure people care what you say. Some just don't know how to show it... |
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Post by thomasj13 on Sept 29, 2021 15:22:59 GMT -6
Sure people care what you say. Some just don't know how to show it... They say likeable posts....or probably more importantly, people like them. |
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Post by bearbryant on Sept 29, 2021 15:28:03 GMT -6
I think we show it by putting a like on his posts, if we don't know how. Bortaz, sempersmom, talshill, olpapa and JIT have the highest like rates on the forum They say likeable posts....or probably more importantly, people like them. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Sept 29, 2021 15:31:02 GMT -6
I think we show it by putting a like on his posts, if we don't know how. Bortaz, sempersmom, talshill, olpapa and JIT have the highest like rates on the forum They say likeable posts....or probably more importantly, people like them. I like a lot of posts............I just never think or take the time to hit the like button. As far as liking people, I like and highly respect three of those mentioned. |
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Post by abregmanfan on Sept 29, 2021 18:26:13 GMT -6
They say likeable posts....or probably more importantly, people like them. I like a lot of posts............I just never think or take the time to hit the like button. As far as liking people, I like and highly respect three of those mentioned. I think I can go out on a limb and guess the 3! |
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Post by abregmanfan on Sept 30, 2021 8:08:36 GMT -6
Sure people care what you say. Some just don't know how to show it... Speak for yourself, Breggie. Sure thing, Jake. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Sept 30, 2021 9:40:13 GMT -6
I like a lot of posts............I just never think or take the time to hit the like button. As far as liking people, I like and highly respect three of those mentioned. I think I can go out on a limb and guess the 3! If you can't, you haven't been paying attention. LOL It is hard to like somebody who never makes a legitimate baseball post, and, instead use 90% of his posts to make smart ass remarks about posts of other members. I get laughs every day from his attempts to draw me into one his name-calling sessions by cursing me and calling me a moron, mongoloid, idiot, etc. because I have the balls to voice an opinion instead of watching to see what happens, jumping on the bandwagon, and, blasting those who were wrong in what they thought. It's easy to never be wrong if you never post anything. LMAO The other one just jumps in to suck up. |
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