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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Dec 14, 2019 13:45:22 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2019 13:58:48 GMT -6
Very interesting development. So if special cameras were not involved, how is our sign stealing any different than what is employed by the other 29 teams? This also totally contradicts dip shit's Fier's claims. MLB has the evidence, and nothing would be more joyous than nailing this mf'er on a fradulent claim. Then ban him for life. And don't tell me that the other 29 don't do this. (steal signs) |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Dec 14, 2019 14:17:43 GMT -6
You’re a f***ing nimrod about this case, Tx. Lmfao.
SHOW ME PRUFES!! !
*team admits it*
THATS NOT PRUFES!! !
Rofl...f***in A
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2019 14:28:00 GMT -6
You’re a fecking nimrod about this case, Tx. Lmfao. SHOW ME PRUFES!! ! *team admits it* THATS NOT PRUFES!! ! Rofl...feckin A Okay bud, we stole signs, so does everyone else, or at least tries. Team stated tht there was no camera installed with the intent of stealing said signs That's the heinous act, that everyone is such an uproar about. The team rightfully states that in is line with industry standards. Is that concept too hard for you to understand? |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Dec 14, 2019 15:26:48 GMT -6
You’re a fecking nimrod about this case, Tx. Lmfao. SHOW ME PRUFES!! ! *team admits it* THATS NOT PRUFES!! ! Rofl...feckin A Okay bud, we stole signs, so does everyone else, or at least tries. Team stated tht there was no camera installed with the intent of stealing said signs That's the heinous act, that everyone is such an uproar about. The team rightfully states that in is line with industry standards. Is that concept too hard for you to understand? they admit to using an existing camera! That, sir, is cheating. That’s not just stealing signs while standing on 2B. That is intentional violation of the rules. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2019 15:51:08 GMT -6
Okay bud, we stole signs, so does everyone else, or at least tries. Team stated tht there was no camera installed with the intent of stealing said signs That's the heinous act, that everyone is such an uproar about. The team rightfully states that in is line with industry standards. Is that concept too hard for you to understand? they admit to using an existing camera! That, sir, is cheating. That’s not just stealing signs while standing on 2B. That is intentional violation of the rules. <snipit>
but they denied that any special cameras were installed for the sole purpose of sign stealing.
The Astros reportedly believed they were "in line with industry standards" because they felt other teams used technology to steal signs as well, but the practice is illegal nonetheless.
Based on the white glove test, even signalling a sign from second is cheating, though you pretty much admit it in your earlier statement. Also did you pick up on the term "industry standard"? That pretty much is telling that there are a lot more so called "Guilty parties" in this matter than us. Who know, maybe maybe most teams. With that, and trying not to sound like a broken record, if it is the standard to have ZERO tolerance in this league...... Investigate everyone, punish everyone, and rid the game of the cheating mentality, once and for all. In your simple thinking, it is fine for us to take the fall for the industry, and take all the punishment. That's fn bullshit. Sorry, Bort..... You are dead wrong in your fandom in this matter. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Dec 14, 2019 22:21:20 GMT -6
they admit to using an existing camera! That, sir, is cheating. That’s not just stealing signs while standing on 2B. That is intentional violation of the rules. <snipit>
but they denied that any special cameras were installed for the sole purpose of sign stealing.
The Astros reportedly believed they were "in line with industry standards" because they felt other teams used technology to steal signs as well, but the practice is illegal nonetheless.
Based on the white glove test, even signalling a sign from second is cheating, though you pretty much admit it in your earlier statement. Also did you pick up on the term "industry standard"? That pretty much is telling that there are a lot more so called "Guilty parties" in this matter than us. Who know, maybe maybe most teams. With that, and trying not to sound like a broken record, if it is the standard to have ZERO tolerance in this league...... Investigate everyone, punish everyone, and rid the game of the cheating mentality, once and for all. In your simple thinking, it is fine for us to take the fall for the industry, and take all the punishment. That's fn bullshit. Sorry, Bort..... You are dead wrong in your fandom in this matter. And you are unhinged in your fandom in this matter. It's like watching your once healthy old uncle become a dotard overnight. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2019 22:53:34 GMT -6
<snipit>
but they denied that any special cameras were installed for the sole purpose of sign stealing.
The Astros reportedly believed they were "in line with industry standards" because they felt other teams used technology to steal signs as well, but the practice is illegal nonetheless.
Based on the white glove test, even signalling a sign from second is cheating, though you pretty much admit it in your earlier statement. Also did you pick up on the term "industry standard"? That pretty much is telling that there are a lot more so called "Guilty parties" in this matter than us. Who know, maybe maybe most teams. With that, and trying not to sound like a broken record, if it is the standard to have ZERO tolerance in this league...... Investigate everyone, punish everyone, and rid the game of the cheating mentality, once and for all. In your simple thinking, it is fine for us to take the fall for the industry, and take all the punishment. That's fn bullshit. Sorry, Bort..... You are dead wrong in your fandom in this matter. And you are unhinged in your fandom in this matter. It's like watching your once healthy old uncle become a dotard overnight. So I sound like an "unhinged dotard" for wanting equitable and fair treatment for my team? Since the term "industry standard" was thrown out there today, I will wager that these are tactics that are being employed by a whole lot more damn teams than you realize. You OTOH, seem hell bent on throwing the team under the bus, full investigation be damned. I agree that this cheating is a sad development, and should end ASAP. But, if the Astros are guilty they should be punished accordingly, and so should every other team engaging in these actions. We being made a singular example.... IS UNACCEPTABLE!!! |
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Post by blcoach8 on Dec 14, 2019 23:15:38 GMT -6
Who admitted it? When did they admit it? Where can we find the link? |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Dec 14, 2019 23:40:19 GMT -6
Who admitted it? When did they admit it? Where can we find the link? You literally quoted the link. Don't bother, though. You and our doddering old uncle wouldn't believe it if Jesus came down from Ambrosia and told you it was true. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Dec 14, 2019 23:43:17 GMT -6
And you are unhinged in your fandom in this matter. It's like watching your once healthy old uncle become a dotard overnight. So I sound like an "unhinged dotard" for wanting equitable and fair treatment for my team? Since the term "industry standard" was thrown out there today, I will wager that these are tactics that are being employed by a whole lot more damn teams than you realize. You OTOH, seem hell bent on throwing the team under the bus, full investigation be damned. I agree that this cheating is a sad development, and should end ASAP. But, if the Astros are guilty they should be punished accordingly, and so should every other team engaging in these actions. We being made a singular example.... IS UNACCEPTABLE!!! You speak out of both sides of your mouth on this. You won't accept that they cheated, then you admit that they cheated but so did Billy Bob over on Main St., then you're back to rationalizing the cheating, which may or may not have been cheating since everyone was doing it (though no one else has been accused), but it's only cheating if they use cameras, but only if they use cameras that George Springer himself personally installed under the cover of darkness with Jose Altuve holding jiggers for him. The biggest difference between me and thee is that I'm pissed that they cheated, and you're pissed that they got caught. Take your meds. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Dec 15, 2019 0:13:04 GMT -6
Who admitted it? When did they admit it? Where can we find the link? You literally quoted the link. Don't bother, though. You and our doddering old uncle wouldn't believe it if Jesus came down from Ambrosia and told you it was true. When I read that I didn't look close enough to realize it was a link.......my mistake. I was not mistaken when I posted on another thread that you seem to want the Astros found guilty, and, from some of the posts you made to txheat, I see I was right. You want them found guilty with or without evidence that proves anything. If cameras were not placed in the outfield for the purpose of stealing signs, there is no evidence.....only the blabbering of a piece of crap who got pulled from the rotation, failed to make the playoff roster, and, was not offered a new contract......All the BS out of his mouth is sour grapes. That SOB pouted like a spoiled toddler when pulled from a game when he was an Astro. He went to Oakland and we hammered his sorry ass and he doesn't like it.....He had a great win streak going until we shelled him for about 6 home runs before they could get him out of the game. I am not going to take the word of some clown like Mike Fiers to pronounce us guilty. The crap about banging on garbage cans and flashing lights proves nothing. I guess that dumbass in Oakland who bangs on that drum is sending signs to the A's dugout.......That makes as much sense as banging on garbage cans and flashing lights. We have yet to see the names of a current player who says we did anything illegal.......In fact,JD Davis was here in '17 and he said he knew nothing about it. They say there are emails about it but do any of them offer proof of wrongdoing or just discussing it. In fact if emails say it is to be done, where is the proof it was carried out? Yes, I agree with txheat.......I have been a fan of this franchise since the Colt .45s came into being in 1962 and I am not going to stop being a fan of the team because of some bullshit started by a disgruntled former player or a competing organization that is still crying because we have eliminated them the last three times we met them in the post season. Screw Fiers and Screw the Yankees. I am surprised that you....or anyone else who claims to be an Astros fan......are ready to hang them before PROOF is presented. I don't doubt that some form of cheating may have taken place, but, unless they used special cameras to steal the signs.....and that can be proven.,...they haven't done a damn thing the other 29 teams haven' t done if they have the capabilities to do it . Don't try to tell me that the Yankees are squeaky clean or any other team for that matter.......Fiers popped off and others saw that as a chance to hang the Astros and piled on. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Dec 15, 2019 2:52:40 GMT -6
So, them admitting it isn't proof enough for you? Just proves MY point that you're going to blindly continue denying they cheated, no matter what comes.
And just to clear up the most stupid part of what you and Tx keep saying: Just because we acknowledge that our team cheated, and are pissed that they DID IT AND ADMITTED TO IT, the fact that they basically ruined the 50+ years old reputation of our team...does not make us less of a fan than you amoral, blind fools.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2019 7:12:33 GMT -6
So I sound like an "unhinged dotard" for wanting equitable and fair treatment for my team? Since the term "industry standard" was thrown out there today, I will wager that these are tactics that are being employed by a whole lot more damn teams than you realize. You OTOH, seem hell bent on throwing the team under the bus, full investigation be damned. I agree that this cheating is a sad development, and should end ASAP. But, if the Astros are guilty they should be punished accordingly, and so should every other team engaging in these actions. We being made a singular example.... IS UNACCEPTABLE!!! You speak out of both sides of your mouth on this. You won't accept that they cheated, then you admit that they cheated but so did Billy Bob over on Main St., then you're back to rationalizing the cheating, which may or may not have been cheating since everyone was doing it (though no one else has been accused), but it's only cheating if they use cameras, but only if they use cameras that George Springer himself personally installed under the cover of darkness with Jose Altuve holding jiggers for him. The biggest difference between me and thee is that I'm pissed that they cheated, and you're pissed that they got caught. Take your meds. You are FOS. Either you haven't read a damn word or understood my intent on this matter. I'm pissed because we are spiraling toward this team being the ultimate example of.... Bascially the Face of Cheating, in a sport where it is as ubiquitous as spikes, pine tar, and batting gloves. I believe they cheated, but OTOH I believe all 30 teams cheat to varying degress. So be damned the results of the investigation, jumping to conclusions, and be the big bad martyr that you want us to be Bortaz, There are many of us who wnat this to play out before judging. If MLB has balls , they will equitable in the depth and severity across the board. Want this sport cleaned up? Clean it up 100%. So don't be surprised if the final results show that our deeds aren't as abhorrent as advertised, while the rest of the league is much guilitier than everybody thinks. So the little "meds" jab is kind of ironic, since you are the one frothing at the mouth holding the torch and pitchfork screaming for an execution before the trial. Have many MA ancestors back in the early 1690's? Anyway, I thought you were a fan of this team. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2019 7:27:28 GMT -6
...does not make us less of a fan than you amoral, blind fools. Again so f'n FOS. You really have trouble differentiating the concepts of the traits "rationality" and "amoralness". But I will hand it to you, it may not make you less of a fan, but (IMO) maybe more likely to go the way of kb and be a bandwaggoner. Maybe the Rangers don't cheat. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Dec 15, 2019 8:44:08 GMT -6
...does not make us less of a fan than you amoral, blind fools. Again so f'n FOS. You really have trouble differentiating the concepts of the traits "rationality" and "amoralness". But I will hand it to you, it may not make you less of a fan, but (IMO) maybe more likely to go the way of kb and be a bandwaggoner. Maybe the Rangers don't cheat. Why does believing they cheated and that they deserve some form of punishment make him less of a fan? I don’t like Osuna, but I root for him to get his saves because it helps the team. Not liking certain things about a team doesn’t make you less of a fan than the fools embracing and loving it. I think it’s childish to say such things. It emphasizes a gang-like “you’re either with us or against us” mentality. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2019 9:01:42 GMT -6
Again so f'n FOS. You really have trouble differentiating the concepts of the traits "rationality" and "amoralness". But I will hand it to you, it may not make you less of a fan, but (IMO) maybe more likely to go the way of kb and be a bandwaggoner. Maybe the Rangers don't cheat. Why does believing they cheated and that they deserve some form of punishment make him less of a fan? I don’t like Osuna, but I root for him to get his saves because it helps the team. Not liking certain things about a team doesn’t make you less of a fan than the fools embracing and loving it. I think it’s childish to say such things. It emphasizes a gang-like “you’re either with us or against us” mentality. I said....it may not make you less of a fan, Did I use the wrong language? I'm childish because I want to wait until all the facts are in before passing judgement? Look in the mirror. |
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Post by Hunter McCormick on Dec 15, 2019 10:47:02 GMT -6
That's nearly as lame as the VooDoo trade rumors. Second-hand info at best. At worst it's eighth-generation hearsay. And no mention of which "Members of the Houston Astros organization" admitted this. Upper management? Players? Janitors? Ushers? Oh wait, I meant to say which members reportedly admitted this. lol But unlike VooDoo, the author of this 'article' does provide a link to another article. But even in that link to the Yankees article there is no one other than Mike Fiers specifically named. So what Andy Martino, SNY.tv, has done here is connect the dots and create his own narrative but he doesn't cite specific quotes from specific individuals to support his narrative. He connected the dots for us, but won't let us see the dots he used to make these connections. Later we get more of the same: "Sources say ..." "One source suggested it could have been ..." "That is more likely than ..."Ugh.
My assessment: These articles are crap-coated crap with a creamy crap-filled center. There may be some fragments of truth within but there's no way of knowing what was actually said (and by whom), and what's just speculation. Did the Astros cheat? My Spidey-sense is tingling and I think a full investigation is warranted. But at the moment, I haven't read anything that definitively confirms these suspicions. I'll wait until MLB releases its findings and accept their ruling. YMMV |
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Post by unionstation82 on Dec 15, 2019 10:55:33 GMT -6
Why does believing they cheated and that they deserve some form of punishment make him less of a fan? I don’t like Osuna, but I root for him to get his saves because it helps the team. Not liking certain things about a team doesn’t make you less of a fan than the fools embracing and loving it. I think it’s childish to say such things. It emphasizes a gang-like “you’re either with us or against us” mentality. I said....it may not make you less of a fan, Did I use the wrong language? I'm childish because I want to wait until all the facts are in before passing judgement? Look in the mirror. I’m not happy about the video I’ve seen. I’m also not happy that more than just Fiers has said something. I wasn’t pleased when AGM Goldstein sent the email encouraging scouts to engage in wrongdoing. I take no pleasure in saying they likely cheated. I also don’t think the “they all do it” holds any weight. If you were busted by a cop for possession of marijuana, how far do you think “so what, they all smoke” will get you? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2019 11:07:29 GMT -6
I said....it may not make you less of a fan, Did I use the wrong language? I'm childish because I want to wait until all the facts are in before passing judgement? Look in the mirror. I’m not happy about the video I’ve seen. I’m also not happy that more than just Fiers has said something. I wasn’t pleased when AGM Goldstein sent the email encouraging scouts to engage in wrongdoing. I take no pleasure in saying they likely cheated. I also don’t think the “they all do it” holds any weight. If you were busted by a cop for possession of marijuana, how far do you think “so what, they all smoke” will get you? I get your point, but the one difference is all the other pot smokers don't take pleasure in you getting busted either. Our competitors are joyously celebrating our trouble. So, if they are just as guilty, shouldn't they be getting the same punishment? And furthermore, shouldn't we get all the details and results of the investigation before passing judgement? If it is as bad as our fans here have already made it out, I'll voice my displeasure then. Till then......... |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2019 11:11:18 GMT -6
My assessment: These articles are crap-coated crap with a creamy crap-filled center. There may be some fragments of truth within but there's no way of knowing what was actually said (and by whom), and what's just speculation. Did the Astros cheat? My Spidey-sense is tingling and I think a full investigation is warranted. But at the moment, I haven't read anything that definitively confirms these suspicions. I'll wait until MLB releases its findings and accept their ruling. YMMV Sanity, common sense, and clarity. You wear it well young man. |
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Post by paastrosfan on Dec 15, 2019 11:37:08 GMT -6
Quote from Hall of Fame Pitcher Gaylord Perry:
"Going back down to the minors is the toughest thing to handle in baseball.
I'd always have grease in at least two places, in case the umpires would ask me to wipe one off. I never wanted to be caught out there with anything though, it wouldn't be professional.
I reckon I tried everything on the old apple, but salt and pepper and chocolate sauce topping.
The trouble with baseball is that it is not played the year round.
There is a difference between jaywalking and grand larceny."
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Post by blcoach8 on Dec 15, 2019 12:54:16 GMT -6
That's nearly as lame as the VooDoo trade rumors. Second-hand info at best. At worst it's eighth-generation hearsay. And no mention of which "Members of the Houston Astros organization" admitted this. Upper management? Players? Janitors? Ushers? Oh wait, I meant to say which members reportedly admitted this. lol But unlike VooDoo, the author of this 'article' does provide a link to another article. But even in that link to the Yankees article there is no one other than Mike Fiers specifically named. So what Andy Martino, SNY.tv, has done here is connect the dots and create his own narrative but he doesn't cite specific quotes from specific individuals to support his narrative. He connected the dots for us, but won't let us see the dots he used to make these connections. Later we get more of the same: "Sources say ..." "One source suggested it could have been ..." "That is more likely than ..."Ugh.
My assessment: These articles are crap-coated crap with a creamy crap-filled center. There may be some fragments of truth within but there's no way of knowing what was actually said (and by whom), and what's just speculation. Did the Astros cheat? My Spidey-sense is tingling and I think a full investigation is warranted. But at the moment, I haven't read anything that definitively confirms these suspicions. I'll wait until MLB releases its findings and accept their ruling. YMMV This may be the only time i say this but, I basically agree with your take on all of this. ALL teams have access to camera and some of them are located in centerfield. ALL teams have cameras accessible to the dugout so replays can be reviewed to determine if the manager wishes to challenge a call on the field. There are TV cameras located all around every stadium when games are televised. Each team should should have the capability to see any view avaiable. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Dec 15, 2019 13:00:19 GMT -6
I’m not happy about the video I’ve seen. I’m also not happy that more than just Fiers has said something. I wasn’t pleased when AGM Goldstein sent the email encouraging scouts to engage in wrongdoing. I take no pleasure in saying they likely cheated. I also don’t think the “they all do it” holds any weight. If you were busted by a cop for possession of marijuana, how far do you think “so what, they all smoke” will get you? I get your point, but the one difference is all the other pot smokers don't take pleasure in you getting busted either. Our competitors are joyously celebrating our trouble. So, if they are just as guilty, shouldn't they be getting the same punishment? And furthermore, shouldn't we get all the details and results of the investigation before passing judgement? If it is as bad as our fans here have already made it out, I'll voice my displeasure then. Till then......... I don't think any of us approve of blatant cheating. I share your stance that we should not be ready to execute the Astros until all evidence has been presented and evaluated. And, I don't consider some hearsay like the crap spewed by Fiers to be evidence. If the AGM was guilty of "asking" scouts to do things that could be considered as cheating, it doesn't mean the scouts did it. Emails "asking" is not proof that wrongdoing took place. What I see here is that the AGM is the guy who needs to be dealt with for making the requests...not the entire organization. I also agree if Manfred wants to act like a big man and rid the sport of cheating and other wrongdoing, conduct a thorough investigation of ALL teams......not just the Astros. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Dec 15, 2019 13:29:44 GMT -6
I get your point, but the one difference is all the other pot smokers don't take pleasure in you getting busted either. Our competitors are joyously celebrating our trouble. So, if they are just as guilty, shouldn't they be getting the same punishment? And furthermore, shouldn't we get all the details and results of the investigation before passing judgement? If it is as bad as our fans here have already made it out, I'll voice my displeasure then. Till then......... I don't think any of us approve of blatant cheating. I share your stance that we should not be ready to execute the Astros until all evidence has been presented and evaluated. And, I don't consider some hearsay like the crap spewed by Fiers to be evidence. If the AGM was guilty of "asking" scouts to do things that could be considered as cheating, it doesn't mean the scouts did it. Emails "asking" is not proof that wrongdoing took place. What I see here is that the AGM is the guy who needs to be dealt with for making the requests...not the entire organization. I also agree if Manfred wants to act like a big man and rid the sport of cheating and other wrongdoing, conduct a thorough investigation of ALL teams......not just the Astros. Yeah, and Goldstein was never removed from his position after that email was sent. That guy who crudely barked at the women in the locker room was not immediately handled. Trading for Osuna was just one of the many bad looks for the team. If the Astros want to play victim, they can’t keep putting bullseyes on their backs. Let’s be real, these guys are way too intelligent to not know what they were doing or what was going on. |
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Post by Hunter McCormick on Dec 15, 2019 13:51:43 GMT -6
ALL teams have access to camera and some of them are located in centerfield. ALL teams have cameras accessible to the dugout so replays can be reviewed to determine if the manager wishes to challenge a call on the field. There's a huge difference between the delayed feed ALL teams have access to and the live feed the Astros allegedly used to cheat. |
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talshill
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Vini, vici, pavori.
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Post by talshill on Dec 15, 2019 13:57:12 GMT -6
One problem is that MLB isn't a publicly held company. They don't have to divulge details and their "evidence" doesn't have to meet courtroom standards. There won't be a jury or a panel so the ultimate punishment will be decided by Manfred alone, and he can base his decision on hearsay, anonymous sources and innuendo if he wants to do so. Scary thought.
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talshill
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Post by talshill on Dec 15, 2019 14:03:11 GMT -6
I get your point, but the one difference is all the other pot smokers don't take pleasure in you getting busted either. Our competitors are joyously celebrating our trouble. So, if they are just as guilty, shouldn't they be getting the same punishment? And furthermore, shouldn't we get all the details and results of the investigation before passing judgement? If it is as bad as our fans here have already made it out, I'll voice my displeasure then. Till then......... I don't think any of us approve of blatant cheating. I share your stance that we should not be ready to execute the Astros until all evidence has been presented and evaluated. And, I don't consider some hearsay like the crap spewed by Fiers to be evidence. If the AGM was guilty of "asking" scouts to do things that could be considered as cheating, it doesn't mean the scouts did it. Emails "asking" is not proof that wrongdoing took place. What I see here is that the AGM is the guy who needs to be dealt with for making the requests...not the entire organization. I also agree if Manfred wants to act like a big man and rid the sport of cheating and other wrongdoing, conduct a thorough investigation of ALL teams......not just the Astros. Manfred isn't going to investigate anyone else. It's not in the best interest of the game. He might actually find something and then he'd be forced to act (or he could choose to ignore it). Either way, a referendum on MLB cheating is never going to happen. They don't care about right or wrong, they care about expediency, image and protecting the game's cash cows. |
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