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Post by blcoach8 on Aug 5, 2020 9:53:53 GMT -6
It was interesting to listen to Dusty Baker make excuses to try and justify not using the bunt in obvious bunting situations in extra innings. He had his excuses ready: 1. Most guys haven't bunted since high school...........well, Dusty. Whose fault is it? It is the job of managers and coaches to see to it that players be able to bunt when necessary. 2. Bow many teams still use the bunt? Who cares if other teams use it......we should be taking advantage of the extra inning rule and use the bunt to win games. When you are the home team in extra innings and only need to score ONE run to win, it makes sense to bunt the runner from second to third base where he has many ways to score the winning run. 3. Not using the bunt because of the next hitters in the lineup. It is the job of all hitters in the lineup to execute and drive in the run from third base. Then, you have Stanton and Blum using analytics to tell us that the "numbers don't sbow" it's the right thing to do because too many factors are working against it paying off,. All of these excuses are ways to avoid being responsible.. You teach kids to bunt in Little League. They practice and use it in high school and college,but, now it becomes unimportant in professional baseball. They don't want to "offend" millionaires by asking them to bunt, Bunting doesn't get them long-term top dollar contracts. Baker and other managers had rather lose games than to offend a player by calling for a bunt. It is asinine no matter what the "numbers" say. The numbers say that because lazy managers and coaches aren't doing their jobs by not being sure their players can bunt. Dusty made reference to Brett Butler who could bunt for a hit but could not execute a sacrifice. I laughed my ass off when I heard that.  |
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Post by sempersmom on Aug 5, 2020 10:10:29 GMT -6
I remember Willie Tavarez using the bunt to get him a hitting streak of 40+. It just seems like it's a dying skill.
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Post by blcoach8 on Aug 5, 2020 11:03:51 GMT -6
I remember Willie Tavarez using the bunt to get him a hitting streak of 40+. It just seems like it's a dying skill. Now that you mention it, I remember that, too. There have been lots of guys have a high OBP because they could bunt. The threat of a bunt draws the infielders in to make it easier to drive the ball by them. Altuve has shown he can bunt for hits and beat out infleld hits. If a player with Myles Straws speed can't bunt, it is disgrcaceful. Just think of how many hits that speed can get him if he can bunt. Dusty's reasons for not bunting amounted to little more than lame excuses. |
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Post by thomasj13 on Aug 5, 2020 11:24:59 GMT -6
It was interesting to listen to Dusty Baker make excuses to try and justify not using the bunt in obvious bunting situations in extra innings. He had his excuses ready: 1. Most guys haven't bunted since high school...........well, Dusty. Whose fault is it? It is the job of managers and coaches to see to it that players be able to bunt when necessary. 2. Bow many teams still use the bunt? Who cares if other teams use it......we should be taking advantage of the extra inning rule and use the bunt to win games. When you are the home team in extra innings and only need to score ONE run to win, it makes sense to bunt the runner from second to third base where he has many ways to score the winning run. 3. Not using the bunt because of the next hitters in the lineup. It is the job of all hitters in the lineup to execute and drive in the run from third base. Then, you have Stanton and Blum using analytics to tell us that the "numbers don't sbow" it's the right thing to do because too many factors are working against it paying off,. All of these excuses are ways to avoid being responsible.. You teach kids to bunt in Little League. They practice and use it in high school and college,but, now it becomes unimportant in professional baseball. They don't want to "offend" millionaires by asking them to bunt, Bunting doesn't get them long-term top dollar contracts. Baker and other managers had rather lose games than to offend a player by calling for a bunt. It is asinine no matter what the "numbers" say. The numbers say that because lazy managers and coaches aren't doing their jobs by not being sure their players can bunt. Dusty made reference to Brett Butler who could bunt for a hit but could not execute a sacrifice. I laughed my ass off when I heard that. Lollygaggers. |
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Post by abregmanfan on Aug 5, 2020 11:27:35 GMT -6
It seems like the only time I see a player bunting anymore, is when they are trying to beat the shift.
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Post by unionstation82 on Aug 5, 2020 12:00:27 GMT -6
Dusty’s full of it. It’s not like he managed in the NL ten years ago.
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Post by unionstation82 on Aug 5, 2020 12:01:40 GMT -6
The argument against bunting is SABR laziness.
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Post by blcoach8 on Aug 5, 2020 14:08:10 GMT -6
Dusty’s full of it. It’s not like he managed in the NL ten years ago. He is making excuses for the failure to use the bunt when needed and it costing us games. |
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Post by Saint on Aug 5, 2020 15:30:31 GMT -6
There are some guys that should never bunt. But we've had guys that know how to bunt and should in certain situations. Especially when the home team.
Main case: LAD game in extra innings. Tucker on 2nd and Altuve leading off. There was zero reason not to bunt.
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Post by blcoach8 on Aug 5, 2020 15:34:45 GMT -6
There are some guys that should never bunt. But we've had guys that know how to bunt and should in certain situations. Especially when the home team. Main case: LAD game in extra innings. Tucker on 2nd and Altuve leading off. There was zero reason not to bunt. You just stated the main time I referred to. No excuse for not bunting in that situation. |
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Post by Saint on Aug 5, 2020 15:41:01 GMT -6
And I believe Willy T had a 30-game streak.
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Post by thomasj13 on Aug 5, 2020 15:51:41 GMT -6
And I believe Willy T had a 30-game streak. It was 130, the legend grows... |
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Post by unionstation82 on Aug 5, 2020 20:29:09 GMT -6
And I believe Willy T had a 30-game streak. I believe his hits during that streak averaged 50 feet. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Aug 9, 2020 1:12:39 GMT -6
Deleted the advertisement post in this thread. Deleted the new member who posted it.
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Post by Hunter McCormick on Aug 9, 2020 21:04:43 GMT -6
Most of the time, the answer is simple. Not! Except when there is a wimp at the plate who has no other skills with a bat than to lay down a bunt, willingly pissing away a precious out to attempt* to advance a runner is a very bad trade. You may increase your probability of scoring a single run but severely damage your probability of putting up a crooked number. And crooked numbers are most games are won or lost. That said, there are situations where it is advantageous to play for a single run. As suggested in the OP of this thread, in the bottom half of an extra-inning tie, where you're given a man on second, playing for a single run does make sense. Otherwise, small-ball is for those with small balls.  The main reason we rarely see bunts in modern major-league baseball is two-fold. Usually, it's a bad choice. And even when the attempt has merit, many major-league players rarely practice bunting. Spending time practicing bunting takes time away from practicing far more valuable skills. In my opinion, the first letter of Bunting should be advanced by one letter.  However, there are still some dinosaurs who are keen on it. * A bunt attempt has a fairly high probability of suck-cess, but not all bunt attempts are successful. The failed attempts result in pissing away an out with nothing at all to show for it.
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Post by blcoach8 on Aug 9, 2020 22:16:50 GMT -6
Most of the time, the answer is simple. Not! Except when there is a wimp at the plate who has no other skills with a bat than to lay down a bunt, willingly pissing away a precious out to attempt* to advance a runner is a very bad trade. You may increase your probability of scoring a single run but severely damage your probability of putting up a crooked number. And crooked numbers are most games are won or lost. That said, there are situations where it is advantageous to play for a single run. As suggested in the OP of this thread, in the bottom half of an extra-inning tie, where you're given a man on second, playing for a single run does make sense. Otherwise, small-ball is for those with small balls. The main reason we rarely see bunts in modern major-league baseball is two-fold. Usually, it's a bad choice. And even when the attempt has merit, many major-league players rarely practice bunting. Spending time practicing bunting takes time away from practicing far more valuable skills. In my opinion, the first letter of Bunting should be advanced by one letter. However, there are still some dinosaurs who are keen on it. * A bunt attempt has a fairly high probability of suck-cess, but not all bunt attempts are successful. The failed attempts result in pissing away an out with nothing at all to show for it. And there are lots of people who lack the baseball knowledge to see the advantage of a well-executed bunt. If you are the home team in an extra inning game and the opponent failed to score in the top half of the inning and you only need ONE run. you are an idiot if you don't try to bunt the winning run to third base where there is a higher probability of scoring. The fact that players don't practice bunting is the fault of managers and coaches. We have already lost two extra inning games because Baker didn't call for a sac bunt to get the runner to third. We old dinosaurs know the importance of being able to execute a bunt. These younger know-it-alls think it is smart to leave the winning run on base rather than execute a bunt and being in better position to score. We keep leaving runners on base throughout games because we suck at situational hitting and don't move runners. Most of our hitters go for a home run on every swing. They lost all three to the A's by scoring the grand total of FIVE runs in three games, mainly by striking out or hitting weak ground balls and fly balls. But, what do we old dinosaurs know. |
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Post by abregmanfan on Aug 10, 2020 8:44:51 GMT -6
Most of the time, the answer is simple. Not! Except when there is a wimp at the plate who has no other skills with a bat than to lay down a bunt, willingly pissing away a precious out to attempt* to advance a runner is a very bad trade. You may increase your probability of scoring a single run but severely damage your probability of putting up a crooked number. And crooked numbers are most games are won or lost. That said, there are situations where it is advantageous to play for a single run. As suggested in the OP of this thread, in the bottom half of an extra-inning tie, where you're given a man on second, playing for a single run does make sense. Otherwise, small-ball is for those with small balls. The main reason we rarely see bunts in modern major-league baseball is two-fold. Usually, it's a bad choice. And even when the attempt has merit, many major-league players rarely practice bunting. Spending time practicing bunting takes time away from practicing far more valuable skills. In my opinion, the first letter of Bunting should be advanced by one letter. However, there are still some dinosaurs who are keen on it. * A bunt attempt has a fairly high probability of suck-cess, but not all bunt attempts are successful. The failed attempts result in pissing away an out with nothing at all to show for it.
Good to see you back, sir. |
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Post by Hunter McCormick on Aug 11, 2020 9:20:32 GMT -6
If you are the home team in an extra inning game and the opponent failed to score in the top half of the inning and you only need ONE run. you are an idiot if you don't try to bunt the winning run to third base where there is a higher probability of scoring According to your statement, there are NINE MLB managers who are idiots. They have on at least one occasion been in that situation and did not have their first batter bunt: Kevin Cash (2 innings, July 26) Brandon Hyde (1 inning, August 1) Bob Melvin (1 inning, July 24) (3 innings, August 7) Dusty Baker (2 innings, July 29) Joe Maddon (1 inning, August 1)(1 inning, August 2) Luis Rojas (1 inning, July 25) David Ross (2 innings, August 2) Derek Shelton (1 inning, July 27) Gabe Kapler (1 inning, July 30) What about the other 21 MLB managers? At this point, we don't know. None of them has been faced with that situation. |
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Post by Hunter McCormick on Aug 11, 2020 9:20:53 GMT -6
We have already lost two extra inning games because Baker didn't call for a sac bunt to get the runner to third. That's patently false. To begin with, the causal relationship you cited requires certainty that a win would have resulted, if Baker DID call for a sac bunt. Anyone who knows anything about baseball knows that's dead wrong. Although there have been more than one instance in an extra-inning game this year where the sac bunt was used in an attempt to break the tie in the bottom of the inning, it has NOT resulted in scoring a run and winning the game. Imagine that, this supposedly certain strategy has uncertain results! |
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Post by Saint on Aug 11, 2020 9:22:43 GMT -6
All I'll say is that when your offense is struggling to get anything going, trying something different (like a bunt) certainly can't hurt. (Depending on who the hitter is.)
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Post by unionstation82 on Aug 11, 2020 15:25:24 GMT -6
All I'll say is that when your offense is struggling to get anything going, trying something different (like a bunt) certainly can't hurt. (Depending on who the hitter is.) We are in full agreement. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Aug 11, 2020 15:29:08 GMT -6
We have already lost two extra inning games because Baker didn't call for a sac bunt to get the runner to third. That's patently false. To begin with, the causal relationship you cited requires certainty that a win would have resulted, if Baker DID call for a sac bunt. Anyone who knows anything about baseball knows that's dead wrong. Although there have been more than one instance in an extra-inning game this year where the sac bunt was used in an attempt to break the tie in the bottom of the inning, it has NOT resulted in scoring a run and winning the game. Imagine that, this supposedly certain strategy has uncertain results! When your big sluggers either have -3° or 75° launch angles, it doesn’t hurt to try bunting once in a while until they start figuring out why they’re supposed stars. |
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However, there are still some dinosaurs who are keen on it.