talshill
Arbitration Eligible
Vini, vici, pavori.
Posts: 1,986
Likes: 1,097
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Post by talshill on May 4, 2021 10:46:49 GMT -6
The 'Stros play in the Bronx for the next 3 days, the first time the two teams have met since the Astros eliminated them in the '19 ALCS. Since the NY press has nothing better to do than to moan about what coulda been had the dastardly Astros not cheated them out of a championship, I'm curious as to what you all think of the scandal and the aftermath. Personally, I was extremely disappointed, to the point that MLB lost a lot of its luster. When MLB decided it was "woke" it lost a lot more, IMO. I still love baseball, but MLB has become too big a business with too many shady characters for me to ever care about it as much as I once did. But what really gets under my skin are the sanctimonious Yankee and Dodger fans, especially since the Yankees have actually been caught cheating, have a sealed letter that might prove even more cheating (which the organization is fighting tooth and nail to keep quashed), Girardi let slip on ESPN about how they were cheating and Beltran came from there and told the Astros that they were behind the curve in cheating. I still maintain that the Astros were made the scapegoat of MLB; that MLB has no interest in doing a thorough investigation, particularly of it's "marquee" franchises (NYY, LAD, BRS) because of embarrassment and possible loss of fanbase (plus Manfred is a New Yorker) and that MLB in general has a long history of shady business practices including ties to illegal gambling.
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Post by Saint on May 4, 2021 11:01:13 GMT -6
I was disappointed because I wanted to feel that our team was above all of that. Everybody knows, whether they want to admit it or not, that a lot of teams are doing stuff like this. It's either the cameras, or substances on balls, or PEDs, or something. It always has been something in MLB. But, obviously we weren't above it. We deserved to be punished and were.
The Astros were mostly definitely made the scapegoats for this most recent trend, and I believe MLB is helping to keep other teams' camera cheating from coming out so that it doesn't look like a bigger issue. I also believe that if the Astros had not beat all the top teams with this recent run, that it likely wouldn't have been blown up at all.
If the team continues to win and have another good run or two in the postseason, most people will move on and admit that they're just a good team. There will always be some Yankee and Dodgers fan that will complain, but that's just how they are.
P.S. I'll be curious to see what type of new information is learned when some of these documentaries in the works get released.
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Post by blcoach8 on May 4, 2021 11:11:18 GMT -6
The 'Stros play in the Bronx for the next 3 days, the first time the two teams have met since the Astros eliminated them in the '19 ALCS. Since the NY press has nothing better to do than to moan about what coulda been had the dastardly Astros not cheated them out of a championship, I'm curious as to what you all think of the scandal and the aftermath. Personally, I was extremely disappointed, to the point that MLB lost a lot of its luster. When MLB decided it was "woke" it lost a lot more, IMO. I still love baseball, but MLB has become too big a business with too many shady characters for me to ever care about it as much as I once did. But what really gets under my skin are the sanctimonious Yankee and Dodger fans, especially since the Yankees have actually been caught cheating, have a sealed letter that might prove even more cheating (which the organization is fighting tooth and nail to keep quashed), Girardi let slip on ESPN about how they were cheating and Beltran came from there and told the Astros that they were behind the curve in cheating. I still maintain that the Astros were made the scapegoat of MLB; that MLB has no interest in doing a thorough investigation, particularly of it's "marquee" franchises (NYY, LAD, BRS) because of embarrassment and possible loss of fanbase (plus Manfred is a New Yorker) and that MLB in general has a long history of shady business practices including ties to illegal gambling. Nothing would please more than to see MLB and Manfred have the balls to finally hold the Yankees accountable for their own cheating. They have gotten a free pass due to being the darlings of the East Coast and national media. I am not saying the Astros were innocent, but, there is NO doubt they were made the scapegoat and had the harsh penalties levied against them to make examples of them, but, mainly because they had the audacity to eliminate the Red Sox, Yankees, and Dodgers to win the 2017 World Series. Then, Jose "cheated"...according to the Yankees......by stealing the sign that told him Chapman was going to throw a 3-0 slider so he could hit the game-winning home run in game 7 of the 2019 ALCS. And, to make matters worse, Altuve "stole" the MVP from Aaron Judge, who ESPN and the rest of the media had given the award before the vote was ever taken. Maybe firing Girardi will come back and bite the Yankees in the ass if they are finally exposed and made to pay.(I'll believe it when I see it). Yankee fans are not very happy with Aaron Boone at the present time, either. The Astros....particularly Altuve, Bregman, Correa, and Gurriel........can all expect to be heckled, booed, and maybe the targets of objects being thrown at them during this series at Yankee Stadium. Manfred should have the balls to step in and demand any acts of violence be stopped, but, he won't do it. After the first thing is thrown, an announcement should be made that ANY other similar action will result in the Yankees forfeiting the game. |
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Post by batman007 on May 4, 2021 17:36:12 GMT -6
I feel pretty much the same as you. I was disappointed it happened (or that we got caught). It seems that Houston can’t have a major sports championship without some type of doubt behind it. You always hear the Rockets deserve an asterisk because Jordan was gone those years and now the Astros get one because of the trash cans. I was really hoping they didn’t win last year because that would be ANOTHER championship with doubt behind it due to the shortened season and crazy playoff format. I’d like Houston to have one major sports championship where there is no doubt behind it.
So yes, the cheating knocked the wind out of my sail a bit as far as being as invested. Once Covid came along and they couldn’t decide if they wanted to play, it lessened my interest a bit more. Then the refusal to play out of pandering or whatever you want to call it really made me lose almost all interest.
In my opinion, any championship the Astros may win with known cheaters in the team will always have doubt. Players like Altuve, Bregman, and Correa are going to have to be gone before anyone forgets about the scandal. They are always going to have that black mark on their record. Once the team is washed of the old guard, we will be forgotten again.
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Post by abregmanfan on May 4, 2021 17:56:13 GMT -6
My thoughts are all over the place on this. I was mad that we cheated, but pissed that everyone else gets a free pass on it. There will always be someone in baseball that tries to get an advantage. What we did is wrong, no doubt. I would like to see along with everyone else on here to see other teams penalized too.
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Post by unionstation82 on May 5, 2021 8:13:43 GMT -6
I was disappointed in not only the cheating but also in how intricate and widespread it was. I was also disappointed that the prediction by Beltrán that the Astros could win a championship in 2017 has a sinister look in hindsight. I was lastly disappointed in the handling of Hinch, not in his firing but in how he had to be thrown under the bus for the players to save themselves. Maybe that’s how it was supposed to go, but it still rubbed me the wrong way.
However, I am sick and tired of the entire sports world acting like the Astros invented cheating and in baseball of all sports, historically known as a game in which gamesmanship and pulling fast ones is tradition.
Am I proud of the Astros cheating? No, but this isn’t the first or last team to have upped the ante on the dishonesty game. I don’t recall using Apple watches as fair play either.
Everyone needs to get over themselves and move on. The stripping titles nonsense and the buzzer need to be put to rest.
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Post by thomasj13 on May 5, 2021 8:43:56 GMT -6
Only the Orioles, Pirates and Marlins have not cheated of recent years...If they actually have, then they really suck at it.
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Post by thomasj13 on May 5, 2021 9:08:20 GMT -6
Only the Orioles, Pirates and Marlins have not cheated of recent years...If they actually did, then they really suck at it.
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on May 5, 2021 10:06:27 GMT -6
The 'Stros play in the Bronx for the next 3 days, the first time the two teams have met since the Astros eliminated them in the '19 ALCS. Since the NY press has nothing better to do than to moan about what coulda been had the dastardly Astros not cheated them out of a championship, I'm curious as to what you all think of the scandal and the aftermath. Personally, I was extremely disappointed, to the point that MLB lost a lot of its luster. When MLB decided it was "woke" it lost a lot more, IMO. I still love baseball, but MLB has become too big a business with too many shady characters for me to ever care about it as much as I once did. But what really gets under my skin are the sanctimonious Yankee and Dodger fans, especially since the Yankees have actually been caught cheating, have a sealed letter that might prove even more cheating (which the organization is fighting tooth and nail to keep quashed), Girardi let slip on ESPN about how they were cheating and Beltran came from there and told the Astros that they were behind the curve in cheating. I still maintain that the Astros were made the scapegoat of MLB; that MLB has no interest in doing a thorough investigation, particularly of it's "marquee" franchises (NYY, LAD, BRS) because of embarrassment and possible loss of fanbase (plus Manfred is a New Yorker) and that MLB in general has a long history of shady business practices including ties to illegal gambling. I watch only fleetingly. I try to get excited about it again, but their lackluster play leaves me bored...more so than it did back before they became social justice warriors and cheaters. It's real easy for me to shunt them to the background and go play a video game or read a book. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on May 5, 2021 11:32:44 GMT -6
One thing I think is stupid is that the cheating Astros players are no longer castigated once they sign with another team. It's the reason Springer ran to Toronto.
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Post by unionstation82 on May 5, 2021 12:00:31 GMT -6
One thing I think is stupid is that the cheating Astros players are no longer castigated once they sign with another team. It's the reason Springer ran to Toronto. Yeah, where are the boos for Marwin, Springer, Keuchel, Cole, etc.? |
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talshill
Arbitration Eligible
Vini, vici, pavori.
Posts: 1,986
Likes: 1,097
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Post by talshill on May 5, 2021 16:52:03 GMT -6
I've been a fan of the Astros since the early 70's, when Bob Watson, Jose Cruz, Cesar Cedeno, etc. were there. Spec Richardson had to be the worst GM in the history of any major sport. When they finally had a really good team they lost to the Phillies in '80, the strike-shortened season of '81 and to the Mets in '86. Then from '97-'01 they were eliminated 4 times in the first round. It wasn't until '04 that they actually won a playoff series; it only took 34 years of fandom and 8 playoff series before they finally moved on to the next round. Of course the next year ('05) they lost the WS to the White Sox. And it's not like they were blown out continuously; more than one of those series could have gone either way if not for rotten luck or a weird bounce of the ball. By the time Luhnow arrived (and the McLain years were mercifully over) I was pretty jaded, but I liked the plan Luhnow had. He seemed confident, intelligent, and unafraid to do things differently in order to keep a competitive team on the field. You could see the talent coming even though the major club sucked. When '17 rolled around I knew beyond doubt that they were the best team in baseball and were set up to be good for a while. Then, the cheating allegations proved to be true. I had waited nearly 50 years for a championship only to discover that it wasn't 100% legitimate. Broke my baseball heart. Even though the Astros were rightfully busted, I'm positive that advanced cheating was happening across more than one club (Apple watches, anyone?). Mike Fiers, who didn't feel badly enough to return his ill-gotten WS ring, forced MLB to castigate the Astros. Which they were more than happy to do, since an also-ran organization had no business winning against the three beatified franchises, all in one season. But I think the thing that ticked people off the most was that Houston was better than everyone, the Astros knew it and everyone else knew it.
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Post by thomasj13 on May 5, 2021 17:00:22 GMT -6
I've been a fan of the Astros since the early 70's, when Bob Watson, Jose Cruz, Cesar Cedeno, etc. were there. Spec Richardson had to be the worst GM in the history of any major sport. When they finally had a really good team they lost to the Phillies in '80, the strike-shortened season of '81 and to the Mets in '86. Then from '97-'01 they were eliminated 4 times in the first round. It wasn't until '04 that they actually won a playoff series; it only took 34 years of fandom and 8 playoff series before they finally moved on to the next round. Of course the next year ('05) they lost the WS to the White Sox. And it's not like they were blown out continuously; more than one of those series could have gone either way if not for rotten luck or a weird bounce of the ball. By the time Luhnow arrived (and the McLain years were mercifully over) I was pretty jaded, but I liked the plan Luhnow had. He seemed confident, intelligent, and unafraid to do things differently in order to keep a competitive team on the field. You could see the talent coming even though the major club sucked. When '17 rolled around I knew beyond doubt that they were the best team in baseball and were set up to be good for a while. Then, the cheating allegations proved to be true. I had waited nearly 50 years for a championship only to discover that it wasn't 100% legitimate. Broke my baseball heart. Even though the Astros were rightfully busted, I'm positive that advanced cheating was happening across more than one club (Apple watches, anyone?). Mike Fiers, who didn't feel badly enough to return his ill-gotten WS ring, forced MLB to castigate the Astros. Which they were more than happy to do, since an also-ran organization had no business winning against the three beatified franchises, all in one season. But I think the thing that ticked people off the most was that Houston was better than everyone, the Astros knew it and everyone else knew it. I read this, and I agree .....but do us all a favor....Break it up into some paragraphs.... |
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talshill
Arbitration Eligible
Vini, vici, pavori.
Posts: 1,986
Likes: 1,097
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Post by talshill on May 5, 2021 17:15:35 GMT -6
I've been a fan of the Astros since the early 70's, when Bob Watson, Jose Cruz, Cesar Cedeno, etc. were there. Spec Richardson had to be the worst GM in the history of any major sport. When they finally had a really good team they lost to the Phillies in '80, the strike-shortened season of '81 and to the Mets in '86. Then from '97-'01 they were eliminated 4 times in the first round. It wasn't until '04 that they actually won a playoff series; it only took 34 years of fandom and 8 playoff series before they finally moved on to the next round. Of course the next year ('05) they lost the WS to the White Sox. And it's not like they were blown out continuously; more than one of those series could have gone either way if not for rotten luck or a weird bounce of the ball. By the time Luhnow arrived (and the McLain years were mercifully over) I was pretty jaded, but I liked the plan Luhnow had. He seemed confident, intelligent, and unafraid to do things differently in order to keep a competitive team on the field. You could see the talent coming even though the major club sucked. When '17 rolled around I knew beyond doubt that they were the best team in baseball and were set up to be good for a while. Then, the cheating allegations proved to be true. I had waited nearly 50 years for a championship only to discover that it wasn't 100% legitimate. Broke my baseball heart. Even though the Astros were rightfully busted, I'm positive that advanced cheating was happening across more than one club (Apple watches, anyone?). Mike Fiers, who didn't feel badly enough to return his ill-gotten WS ring, forced MLB to castigate the Astros. Which they were more than happy to do, since an also-ran organization had no business winning against the three beatified franchises, all in one season. But I think the thing that ticked people off the most was that Houston was better than everyone, the Astros knew it and everyone else knew it. I read this, and I agree .....but do us all a favor....Break it up into some paragraphs.... I did. It's one paragraph. Here's some cheese. |
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Post by abregmanfan on May 5, 2021 21:12:35 GMT -6
I've been a fan of the Astros since the early 70's, when Bob Watson, Jose Cruz, Cesar Cedeno, etc. were there. Spec Richardson had to be the worst GM in the history of any major sport. When they finally had a really good team they lost to the Phillies in '80, the strike-shortened season of '81 and to the Mets in '86. Then from '97-'01 they were eliminated 4 times in the first round. It wasn't until '04 that they actually won a playoff series; it only took 34 years of fandom and 8 playoff series before they finally moved on to the next round. Of course the next year ('05) they lost the WS to the White Sox. And it's not like they were blown out continuously; more than one of those series could have gone either way if not for rotten luck or a weird bounce of the ball. By the time Luhnow arrived (and the McLain years were mercifully over) I was pretty jaded, but I liked the plan Luhnow had. He seemed confident, intelligent, and unafraid to do things differently in order to keep a competitive team on the field. You could see the talent coming even though the major club sucked. When '17 rolled around I knew beyond doubt that they were the best team in baseball and were set up to be good for a while. Then, the cheating allegations proved to be true. I had waited nearly 50 years for a championship only to discover that it wasn't 100% legitimate. Broke my baseball heart. Even though the Astros were rightfully busted, I'm positive that advanced cheating was happening across more than one club (Apple watches, anyone?). Mike Fiers, who didn't feel badly enough to return his ill-gotten WS ring, forced MLB to castigate the Astros. Which they were more than happy to do, since an also-ran organization had no business winning against the three beatified franchises, all in one season. But I think the thing that ticked people off the most was that Houston was better than everyone, the Astros knew it and everyone else knew it. I read this, and I agree .....but do us all a favor....Break it up into some paragraphs.... Cry baby! |
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Post by blcoach8 on May 5, 2021 21:50:42 GMT -6
I've been a fan of the Astros since the early 70's, when Bob Watson, Jose Cruz, Cesar Cedeno, etc. were there. Spec Richardson had to be the worst GM in the history of any major sport. When they finally had a really good team they lost to the Phillies in '80, the strike-shortened season of '81 and to the Mets in '86. Then from '97-'01 they were eliminated 4 times in the first round. It wasn't until '04 that they actually won a playoff series; it only took 34 years of fandom and 8 playoff series before they finally moved on to the next round. Of course the next year ('05) they lost the WS to the White Sox. And it's not like they were blown out continuously; more than one of those series could have gone either way if not for rotten luck or a weird bounce of the ball. By the time Luhnow arrived (and the McLain years were mercifully over) I was pretty jaded, but I liked the plan Luhnow had. He seemed confident, intelligent, and unafraid to do things differently in order to keep a competitive team on the field. You could see the talent coming even though the major club sucked. When '17 rolled around I knew beyond doubt that they were the best team in baseball and were set up to be good for a while. Then, the cheating allegations proved to be true. I had waited nearly 50 years for a championship only to discover that it wasn't 100% legitimate. Broke my baseball heart. Even though the Astros were rightfully busted, I'm positive that advanced cheating was happening across more than one club (Apple watches, anyone?). Mike Fiers, who didn't feel badly enough to return his ill-gotten WS ring, forced MLB to castigate the Astros. Which they were more than happy to do, since an also-ran organization had no business winning against the three beatified franchises, all in one season. But I think the thing that ticked people off the most was that Houston was better than everyone, the Astros knew it and everyone else knew it. I've been a fan beginning in 1962 when they were the Colt. 454's with Harry Craft as manager and Paul Richards the GM. We did a pretty good job of getting a decent starting rotation out of Turk Farrell, Bob Bruce, Don Nottebart, etc. Nottebart no-hit the Phillies one year and Ken Johnson, who was a good starter for us, pitched a no-hitter and lost the game. I agree with your assessment of Spec Richardson. Bill Wood and Ed Wade could compete with him for the worst GM we have ever had. ( I may eventually add Click to the list unless he does better than he has to this point). Jim Crane was wise to hire Jeff Luhnow and let him do his job after Drayton McLane gutted the franchise and then sold it. Signing Altuve was a stroke of genius as were the draft picks of Springer, Correa, McCullers, Bregman, and possibly Kyle Tucker once he develops consistency. The WS team WAS the best in baseball with or without the sign stealing. Getting Verlander at the deadline was what gave us the ace we needed to go all the way. Morton, McCullers, and Peacock also stepped up and did great jobs. Then, they rewarded Morton by letting him go to the Rays, compete for the Cy Young, and beat us in game 7 of last year's ALCS. Yes, that team was good, knew they were good, and pissed off the national media by eliminating their three darlings.....Red Sox, Yankees, and Dodgers. Mike Fiers turned us in for sign stealing because Hinch yanked him from the rotation, kept him off the playoff roster, and then they failed to offer him a contract. So, he turned fink, but, is too gutless to take the mound and pitch against us. The A's invent ways to have him skipped in the rotation or on the IL when they face us. All I blame Hinch for was not having the guts to force Cora and Beltran to stop the sign-stealing. I also think Luhnow lied about not knowing about it. |
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Post by batman007 on May 6, 2021 23:06:21 GMT -6
Look out y’all, we got a couple 1492ers in here...
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Post by Hunter McCormick on May 8, 2021 9:49:51 GMT -6
Only the Orioles, Pirates and Marlins have not cheated of recent years...If they actually have, then they really suck at it. Only the Orioles, Pirates and Marlins have not cheated of recent years...If they actually did, then they really suck at it. You can say that again. lol And you can add the Tigers to that list. |
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Post by abregmanfan on Jul 15, 2021 16:22:09 GMT -6
Seems the Yankees have a covid problem...
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Post by Saint on Jul 15, 2021 17:27:15 GMT -6
And do we know why they aren't being required to play regardless? We sure did.
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Post by blcoach8 on Jul 15, 2021 17:47:50 GMT -6
And do we know why they aren't being required to play regardless? We sure did. That's easy...they are an East Coast team and darling of the media, plus Manfred sucks up to them. |
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Post by abregmanfan on Jul 15, 2021 18:05:31 GMT -6
And do we know why they aren't being required to play regardless? We sure did. Exactly. Mlb is biased. I wish the players well, but they should have to play. |
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