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Post by Saint on Sept 28, 2021 13:52:53 GMT -6
I know we've had similar threads, but the discussion about Bregman vs. Caminiti got me curious to see other opinions. Using ONLY their Astros numbers, build what you consider to be the best all-time Astros 25-man roster. Nothing they did before or after they were an Astro. And be reason with positions. Yes, Bagwell played one game in RF but you can't use him as an OFer (for example). You can't have Roy Oswalt as your closer, etc. Any player can be your DH since we haven't always had a DH. There are no minimum amount of season requirements.
And let's try to be civil (holding myself accountable as well). It's an opinion exercise, not a test. There is no right or wrong.
C - Biggio
1B - Bagwell
2B - Altuve
SS - Correa
3B - Bregman
LF - Moises Alou
RF - Jose Cruz
CF - Springer
DH - Berkman
Bench:
Cesar Cedeno
Jimmy Wynn
Jeff Kent
Joe Morgan
SP1: Nolan Ryan
SP2: Roy Oswalt
SP3: Justin Verlander
SP4: JR Richards
SP5: Roger Clemens
Bullpen:
1. Billy Wagner
2. Dave Smith
3. Joe Sambito
4. Octavio Dotel
5. Ryan Pressly
6. Jose Valverde
7. Larry Andersen
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Post by thomasj13 on Sept 28, 2021 14:11:36 GMT -6
Trying to think how do you get Randy Johnson, Mike Scott, Michael Brantley and Carlos Beltran on this team
Is Tony Eusebio the 2nd best catcher in Astros history? If so that's pathetic.
Here is to hoping Korey Lee can be considered 2nd best in a short period of time.
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Post by Saint on Sept 28, 2021 14:25:40 GMT -6
Trying to think how do you get Randy Johnson, Mike Scott, Michael Brantley and Carlos Beltran on this team Is Tony Eusebio the 2nd best catcher in Astros history? If so that's pathetic. Here is to hoping Korey Lee can be considered 2nd best in a short period of time. I thought about Beltran and Johnson also but just decided that half a season in their prime wasn't enough for me. And yes, it comes down to Eusebio or Ashby. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Sept 28, 2021 14:35:01 GMT -6
Trying to think how do you get Randy Johnson, Mike Scott, Michael Brantley and Carlos Beltran on this team Is Tony Eusebio the 2nd best catcher in Astros history? If so that's pathetic. Here is to hoping Korey Lee can be considered 2nd best in a short period of time. I can see leaving Johnson, Brantley, and Beltran off at this point, but, there has to be a way to get Mike Scott on the team and leaving off Joe Niekro is hard to do for me. I agree with all of the pitchers Saint had, but, some were omitted that belonged there, too. I'd have to put Biggio on as the catcher even though he spent most of his career at other positions. |
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Post by Saint on Sept 28, 2021 14:41:18 GMT -6
I'm going to be honest here and it might ruffle some feathers, but... Mike Scott was an overrated pitcher for his career. He had a real nice peak from 86-89, but outside of that run, he was actually pretty poor compared to the rest of the league. That was a time when an ERA in the mid-3 range was average at best.
We look at him fondly because of the magical 86 season, but it was a late short peak for him.
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Post by blcoach8 on Sept 28, 2021 14:49:00 GMT -6
I know we've had similar threads, but the discussion about Bregman vs. Caminiti got me curious to see other opinions. Using ONLY their Astros numbers, build what you consider to be the best all-time Astros 25-man roster. Nothing they did before or after they were an Astro. And be reason with positions. Yes, Bagwell played one game in RF but you can't use him as an OFer (for example). You can't have Roy Oswalt as your closer, etc. Any player can be your DH since we haven't always had a DH. There are no minimum amount of season requirements. And let's try to be civil (holding myself accountable as well). It's an opinion exercise, not a test. There is no right or wrong. C - Biggio 1B - Bagwell 2B - Altuve SS - Correa 3B - Bregman LF - Moises Alou RF - Jose Cruz CF - Springer DH - Berkman Bench: Cesar Cedeno Jimmy Wynn Jeff Kent Joe Morgan SP1: Nolan Ryan SP2: Roy Oswalt SP3: Justin Verlander SP4: JR Richards SP5: Roger Clemens Bullpen: 1. Billy Wagner 2. Dave Smith 3. Joe Sambito 4. Octavio Dotel 5. Ryan Pressly 6. Jose Valverde 7. Larry Andersen I wouldn't make many changes to your team, but, there are a few. C-Biggio backup-Ausmus 1B-Bagwell 2B-Altuve 3B-Bregman SS-Correa LF-Moises Alou CF- George Springer RF-Jose Cruz 4th OF- Terry Puhl DH-Berkman. I think Alvarez will end up with this spot, but, he hasn't earned it yet. Bench: Cesar Cedeno Jimmy Wynn Bob Watson' Billy Doran.......I'd say Morgan but most of his years were spent with the Reds. Starting pitchers: Nolan Ryan Mike Scott Justin Verlander Roy Oswalt Roger Clemens JR Richard It's hard to leave off Joe Niekro and Larry Dierker. I'd go with your bullpen just like it is. The only switch I might make is dropping Dotel and adding Brad Lidge. I don't hold the HR he gave up to Pujols against t him enough to decide he isn't worthy of making the team. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Sept 28, 2021 14:50:47 GMT -6
I'm going to be honest here and it might ruffle some feathers, but... Mike Scott was an overrated pitcher for his career. He had a real nice peak from 86-89, but outside of that run, he was actually pretty poor compared to the rest of the league. That was a time when an ERA in the mid-3 range was average at best. We look at him fondly because of the magical 86 season, but it was a late short peak for him. Roger Clemens was a great pitcher, but, we got more from Mike Scott than we got from Clemens, who is more of a Yankee and Red Sox than an Astro. |
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Post by bearbryant on Sept 28, 2021 14:58:23 GMT -6
I'm going to be honest here and it might ruffle some feathers, but... Mike Scott was an overrated pitcher for his career. He had a real nice peak from 86-89, but outside of that run, he was actually pretty poor compared to the rest of the league. That was a time when an ERA in the mid-3 range was average at best. We look at him fondly because of the magical 86 season, but it was a late short peak for him. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Sept 28, 2021 15:03:58 GMT -6
I'm going to be honest here and it might ruffle some feathers, but... Mike Scott was an overrated pitcher for his career. He had a real nice peak from 86-89, but outside of that run, he was actually pretty poor compared to the rest of the league. That was a time when an ERA in the mid-3 range was average at best. We look at him fondly because of the magical 86 season, but it was a late short peak for him. They were all among my favorites, too. Of course, I also was a big fan of Bob Watson and Bob Aspromonte. |
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Post by bearbryant on Sept 28, 2021 15:13:55 GMT -6
I have to admit, Scott, Niekro, Ken Forsch, Phil Garner and pre-addict Caminiti were some of my favorite Astros, even though their stats wouldn't make the cut for an all-time roster They were all among my favorites, too. Of course, I also was a big fan of Bob Watson and Bob Aspromonte. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Sept 28, 2021 15:19:29 GMT -6
They were all among my favorites, too. Of course, I also was a big fan of Bob Watson and Bob Aspromonte. I liked Hatcher. Is it you or me that is confusing Fred Gladding with Don Gladden? I am so old I am also a fan of Don Wilson and Denis Menke. |
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Post by bearbryant on Sept 28, 2021 15:24:20 GMT -6
Billy Hatcher was another player I liked as a kid, probably in the same way a Twin fan my age liked Dan Gladden I liked Hatcher. Is it you or me that is confusing Fred Gladding with Don Gladden? I am so old I am also a fan of Don Wilson and Denis Menke. |
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Post by Saint on Sept 28, 2021 15:50:05 GMT -6
I'm going to be honest here and it might ruffle some feathers, but... Mike Scott was an overrated pitcher for his career. He had a real nice peak from 86-89, but outside of that run, he was actually pretty poor compared to the rest of the league. That was a time when an ERA in the mid-3 range was average at best. We look at him fondly because of the magical 86 season, but it was a late short peak for him. Roger Clemens was a great pitcher, but, we got more from Mike Scott than we got from Clemens, who is more of a Yankee and Red Sox than an Astro. The three years Clemens gave us were fantastic. Better than anything we got from Scott outside of 1986 alone. |
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Post by Saint on Sept 28, 2021 15:51:20 GMT -6
I'm going to be honest here and it might ruffle some feathers, but... Mike Scott was an overrated pitcher for his career. He had a real nice peak from 86-89, but outside of that run, he was actually pretty poor compared to the rest of the league. That was a time when an ERA in the mid-3 range was average at best. We look at him fondly because of the magical 86 season, but it was a late short peak for him. Ensberg, for a short time, was a favorite player of mine. But he isn't close to making the cut. |
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Post by thomasj13 on Sept 28, 2021 18:20:46 GMT -6
Roger Clemens was a great pitcher, but, we got more from Mike Scott than we got from Clemens, who is more of a Yankee and Red Sox than an Astro. The three years Clemens gave us were fantastic. Better than anything we got from Scott outside of 1986 alone. Clemens' 3 years were phenomenal.... |
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Post by bearbryant on Sept 28, 2021 18:28:55 GMT -6
Starters 11 Ausmus 5 Bagwell 27 Altuve 1 Correa 2 Bregman 25 Cruz 28 Cedeno 4 Springer 17 Berkman
Reserves 7 Biggio 27 Davis 11 Caminiti 18 Alou 21 Puhl
Pitchers 34 Ryan 50 Richard 44 Oswalt 36 Niekro 57 Kile
33 Scott 43 Forsch 45 Smith
47 Andersen 36 Harris
13 Wagner
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Post by blcoach8 on Sept 28, 2021 18:56:39 GMT -6
Roger Clemens was a great pitcher, but, we got more from Mike Scott than we got from Clemens, who is more of a Yankee and Red Sox than an Astro. The three years Clemens gave us were fantastic. Better than anything we got from Scott outside of 1986 alone. you have a selective memory. Clemens will never make the HOF because of steroids. |
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Post by Saint on Sept 28, 2021 19:39:34 GMT -6
The three years Clemens gave us were fantastic. Better than anything we got from Scott outside of 1986 alone. you have a selective memory. Clemens will never make the HOF because of steroids. Who is talking about the HoF? It's just the players we feel we're the best Astros... Don't start turning this into some kind of personal thing. |
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Post by Saint on Sept 28, 2021 19:40:37 GMT -6
Starters 11 Ausmus 5 Bagwell 27 Altuve 1 Correa 2
Bregman 25 Cruz 28 Cedeno 4 Springer 17 Berkman
Reserves 7 Biggio 27 Davis 11 Caminiti 18 Alou 21 Puhl
Pitchers 34 Ryan 50 Richard 44 Oswalt 36 Niekro 57 Kile
33 Scott 43 Forsch 45 Smith
47 Andersen 36 Harris
13 Wagner
I wanted to get Glenn Davis on mine too. |
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Post by bearbryant on Sept 28, 2021 19:56:37 GMT -6
Starters 11 Ausmus 5 Bagwell 27 Altuve 1 Correa 2 Bregman 25 Cruz 28 Cedeno 4 Springer 17 Berkman
Reserves 7 Biggio 27 Davis 11 Caminiti 18 Alou 21 Puhl
Pitchers 34 Ryan 50 Richard 44 Oswalt 36 Niekro 57 Kile
33 Scott 43 Forsch 45 Smith
47 Andersen 36 Harris
13 Wagner
I wanted to get Glenn Davis on mine too. I guess my coaching staff would be Hinch, Garner, Jaramillo, Galante, Lillis & Strom
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Post by unionstation82 on Sept 28, 2021 20:23:57 GMT -6
I wanted to get Glenn Davis on mine too. I guess my coaching staff would be Hinch, Garner, Jaramillo, Galante, Lillis & Strom
Can we replace Cintrón with Jaramillo? |
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Post by blcoach8 on Sept 28, 2021 21:19:53 GMT -6
you have a selective memory. Clemens will never make the HOF because of steroids. Who is talking about the HoF? It's just the players we feel we're the best Astros... Don't start turning this into some kind of personal thing. Nothing personal intended. I just think Scott did more for the Astros than Clemens. I haven't forgotten how he and Pettit bailed out and ran back to the Yankess. F*ck both of them. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Sept 28, 2021 21:21:01 GMT -6
I wanted to get Glenn Davis on mine too. I guess my coaching staff would be Hinch, Garner, Jaramillo, Galante, Lillis & Strom
Great staff. I'd have include Bill Virdon in there as maybe the bench coach. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Sept 28, 2021 21:21:48 GMT -6
I guess my coaching staff would be Hinch, Garner, Jaramillo, Galante, Lillis & Strom
Can we replace Cintrón with Jaramillo? I'd replace either Centron and Snitker with Beavis and Butthead. |
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Post by Saint on Sept 28, 2021 21:26:03 GMT -6
Who is talking about the HoF? It's just the players we feel we're the best Astros... Don't start turning this into some kind of personal thing. Nothing personal intended. I just think Scott did more for the Astros than Clemens. I haven't forgotten how he and Pettit bailed out and ran back to the Yankess. F*ck both of them. I don't know, Clemens helped get us to our first WS. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Sept 28, 2021 21:36:49 GMT -6
Nothing personal intended. I just think Scott did more for the Astros than Clemens. I haven't forgotten how he and Pettit bailed out and ran back to the Yankess. F*ck both of them. I don't know, Clemens helped get us to our first WS. I remember wishing Clemens would hit that walkoff instead of Burke. Would’ve been magical. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Sept 28, 2021 21:51:29 GMT -6
C - Biggio
1B - Bagwell
2B - Altuve
SS - Correa
3B - Caminiti (on roids)
LF - Alou
CF - Springer
RF - Berkman
DH - Bregman
Bench:
Cesar Cedeno
Jimmy Wynn
Adam Everett
Joe Morgan
SP1: Nolan Ryan
SP2: Roy Oswalt
SP3: Justin Verlander
SP4: J.R. Richard
SP5: Gerrit Cole
Bullpen:
1. Billy Wagner
2. Brad Lidge
3. Octavio Dotel
4. Ryan Pressly
5. Dave Smith
6. Charlie Kerfeld
7. Chad Qualls (it’s tradition)
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Post by blcoach8 on Sept 28, 2021 22:01:24 GMT -6
C - Biggio 1B - Bagwell 2B - Altuve SS - Correa 3B - Caminiti (on roids) LF - Alou CF - Springer RF - Berkman DH - Bregman Bench: Cesar Cedeno Jimmy Wynn Adam Everett Joe Morgan SP1: Nolan Ryan SP2: Roy Oswalt SP3: Justin Verlander SP4: J.R. Richard SP5: Gerrit Cole Bullpen: 1. Billy Wagner 2. Brad Lidge 3. Octavio Dotel 4. Ryan Pressly 5. Dave Smith 6. Charlie Kerfeld 7. Chad Qualls (it’s tradition) If you were going to put NO Balls Qualls on there, I'd go with Will Harris, too. They are about equal. LOL I also forgot Glenn Davis or I'd have added the Big Bopper. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Sept 28, 2021 23:08:20 GMT -6
C - Biggio 1B - Bagwell 2B - Altuve SS - Correa 3B - Caminiti (on roids) LF - Alou CF - Springer RF - Berkman DH - Bregman Bench: Cesar Cedeno Jimmy Wynn Adam Everett Joe Morgan SP1: Nolan Ryan SP2: Roy Oswalt SP3: Justin Verlander SP4: J.R. Richard SP5: Gerrit Cole Bullpen: 1. Billy Wagner 2. Brad Lidge 3. Octavio Dotel 4. Ryan Pressly 5. Dave Smith 6. Charlie Kerfeld 7. Chad Qualls (it’s tradition) If you were going to put NO Balls Qualls on there, I'd go with Will Harris, too. They are about equal. LOL I also forgot Glenn Davis or I'd have added the Big Bopper. I wanted to have Glenn Davis but didn’t know who to kick off the roster. I like Qualls for sentimental reasons. He was there for the World Series and there for the path back to the postseason. |
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Post by Saint on Sept 29, 2021 8:36:34 GMT -6
C - Biggio 1B - Bagwell 2B - Altuve SS - Correa 3B - Caminiti (on roids) LF - Alou CF - Springer RF - Berkman DH - Bregman Bench: Cesar Cedeno Jimmy Wynn Adam Everett Joe Morgan SP1: Nolan Ryan SP2: Roy Oswalt SP3: Justin Verlander SP4: J.R. Richard SP5: Gerrit Cole Bullpen: 1. Billy Wagner 2. Brad Lidge 3. Octavio Dotel 4. Ryan Pressly 5. Dave Smith 6. Charlie Kerfeld 7. Chad Qualls (it’s tradition) Adam Everett, eh? Interesting choice. If I added a backup SS I'd have gone with Dickie Thon since he could do something with the bat before his injury. I completely forgot about Cole... |
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