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Post by unionstation82 on Sept 29, 2021 9:29:24 GMT -6
C - Biggio 1B - Bagwell 2B - Altuve SS - Correa 3B - Caminiti (on roids) LF - Alou CF - Springer RF - Berkman DH - Bregman Bench: Cesar Cedeno Jimmy Wynn Adam Everett Joe Morgan SP1: Nolan Ryan SP2: Roy Oswalt SP3: Justin Verlander SP4: J.R. Richard SP5: Gerrit Cole Bullpen: 1. Billy Wagner 2. Brad Lidge 3. Octavio Dotel 4. Ryan Pressly 5. Dave Smith 6. Charlie Kerfeld 7. Chad Qualls (it’s tradition) Adam Everett, eh? Interesting choice. If I added a backup SS I'd have gone with Dickie Thon since he could do something with the bat before his injury. I completely forgot about Cole... I figured that roster had enough 2B’s. Qualls and Kerfeld were joke picks obviously. Kerfeld is the drinking buddy player.
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Post by Saint on Sept 29, 2021 9:33:26 GMT -6
Adam Everett, eh? Interesting choice. If I added a backup SS I'd have gone with Dickie Thon since he could do something with the bat before his injury. I completely forgot about Cole... I figured that roster had enough 2B’s. Qualls and Kerfeld were joke picks obviously. Kerfeld is the drinking buddy player. Thon was primarily a SS. In fact, before his injury basically ruined his career, he had just had a CC-esque all-around amazing year. In fact, if defense was looked at better back at that time, he would have had a legitimate chance at an MVP award in 1983.
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Post by abregmanfan on Sept 29, 2021 10:32:10 GMT -6
Trying to think how do you get Randy Johnson, Mike Scott, Michael Brantley and Carlos Beltran on this team Is Tony Eusebio the 2nd best catcher in Astros history? If so that's pathetic. Here is to hoping Korey Lee can be considered 2nd best in a short period of time. Hey man, I LOVED Eusebio!
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Post by unionstation82 on Sept 29, 2021 10:40:52 GMT -6
I figured that roster had enough 2B’s. Qualls and Kerfeld were joke picks obviously. Kerfeld is the drinking buddy player. Thon was primarily a SS. In fact, before his injury basically ruined his career, he had just had a CC-esque all-around amazing year. In fact, if defense was looked at better back at that time, he would have had a legitimate chance at an MVP award in 1983. Thon had promise until that thing happened. Poor guy. People don’t care about defense. Didn’t Bregman have a better WAR and dWAR than Trout in 2019?
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Post by Saint on Sept 29, 2021 11:34:38 GMT -6
Thon was primarily a SS. In fact, before his injury basically ruined his career, he had just had a CC-esque all-around amazing year. In fact, if defense was looked at better back at that time, he would have had a legitimate chance at an MVP award in 1983. Thon had promise until that thing happened. Poor guy. People don’t care about defense. Didn’t Bregman have a better WAR and dWAR than Trout in 2019? I think people always liked defense and flashy plays (Brooks Robinson and Ozzie Smith were exceedingly popular back in the day), but I don't think people understood how much value there is with strong defense even if you aren't making flashy plays.
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Post by abregmanfan on Sept 29, 2021 12:16:57 GMT -6
Thon had promise until that thing happened. Poor guy. People don’t care about defense. Didn’t Bregman have a better WAR and dWAR than Trout in 2019? I think people always liked defense and flashy plays (Brooks Robinson and Ozzie Smith were exceedingly popular back in the day), but I don't think people understood how much value there is with strong defense even if you aren't making flashy plays. Ozzie is the best defensive player of all time.
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Post by Saint on Sept 29, 2021 12:37:06 GMT -6
I think people always liked defense and flashy plays (Brooks Robinson and Ozzie Smith were exceedingly popular back in the day), but I don't think people understood how much value there is with strong defense even if you aren't making flashy plays. Ozzie is the best defensive player of all time. I would agree with that. I'd put him right ahead of Brooks Robinson. Cal Ripken was also vastly underrated defensively because of how much attention his offense and iron man streak received.
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Post by unionstation82 on Sept 29, 2021 13:39:22 GMT -6
When I was growing up, this guy was the successor to Ozzie.
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Post by abregmanfan on Sept 29, 2021 14:04:22 GMT -6
Ozzie is the best defensive player of all time. I would agree with that. I'd put him right ahead of Brooks Robinson. Cal Ripken was also vastly underrated defensively because of how much attention his offense and iron man streak received. True on Cal. My next favorite after Ozzie was Griffey.
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Post by unionstation82 on Sept 29, 2021 15:21:45 GMT -6
I would agree with that. I'd put him right ahead of Brooks Robinson. Cal Ripken was also vastly underrated defensively because of how much attention his offense and iron man streak received. True on Cal. My next favorite after Ozzie was Griffey. Griffey was the truth.
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Post by surfintexas on Oct 3, 2021 18:53:02 GMT -6
C - Craig Biggio 1B - Glenn Davis 2B - Jose Altuve SS - Carlis Correa 3B - Ken Caminiti LF - Moises Alou CF - Jimmy Wynn RF - Lance Berkman DH - Yordan Alvarez
Bench: George Springer Jose Cruz Kevin Bass Bill Spiers
SP1: Roy Oswalt SP2: JR Richard SP3: Mike Hampton SP4: Jose Lima (99 Version) SP5: Randy Johnson
Bullpen: 1. Billy Wagner 2. Brad Lidge 3. Octavio Dotel 4. Dave Smith 5. Larry Anderson 6. Joe Sambito 7. Jose Valverde
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Post by Saint on Oct 3, 2021 19:01:48 GMT -6
C - Craig Biggio 1B - Glenn Davis 2B - Jose Altuve SS - Carlis Correa 3B - Ken Caminiti LF - Moises Alou CF - Jimmy Wynn RF - Lance Berkman DH - Yordan Alvarez Bench: George Springer Jose Cruz Kevin Bass Bill Spiers SP1: Roy Oswalt SP2: JR Richard SP3: Mike Hampton SP4: Jose Lima (99 Version) SP5: Randy Johnson Bullpen: 1. Billy Wagner 2. Brad Lidge 3. Octavio Dotel 4. Dave Smith 5. Larry Anderson 6. Joe Sambito 7. Jose Valverde No Bagwell?
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Post by thomasj13 on Oct 3, 2021 19:04:08 GMT -6
C - Craig Biggio 1B - Glenn Davis 2B - Jose Altuve SS - Carlis Correa 3B - Ken Caminiti LF - Moises Alou CF - Jimmy Wynn RF - Lance Berkman DH - Yordan Alvarez Bench: George Springer Jose Cruz Kevin Bass Bill Spiers SP1: Roy Oswalt SP2: JR Richard SP3: Mike Hampton SP4: Jose Lima (99 Version) SP5: Randy Johnson Bullpen: 1. Billy Wagner 2. Brad Lidge 3. Octavio Dotel 4. Dave Smith 5. Larry Anderson 6. Joe Sambito 7. Jose Valverde No Bagwell? No Ryan?
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Post by surfintexas on Oct 3, 2021 19:38:45 GMT -6
C - Craig Biggio 1B - Glenn Davis 2B - Jose Altuve SS - Carlis Correa 3B - Ken Caminiti LF - Moises Alou CF - Jimmy Wynn RF - Lance Berkman DH - Yordan Alvarez Bench: George Springer Jose Cruz Kevin Bass Bill Spiers SP1: Roy Oswalt SP2: JR Richard SP3: Mike Hampton SP4: Jose Lima (99 Version) SP5: Randy Johnson Bullpen: 1. Billy Wagner 2. Brad Lidge 3. Octavio Dotel 4. Dave Smith 5. Larry Anderson 6. Joe Sambito 7. Jose Valverde No Bagwell? For me, it seemed like Bagwell rarely produced in the clutch, especially in the post season. But, my memory could be a bit foggy on that. As for Ryan, he was a beast and could be swapped for any one of the others. I just wanted to include some guys that hasn't been mentioned yet.
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Post by Saint on Oct 4, 2021 9:23:30 GMT -6
Bagwell was plenty clutch during the regular season and had a couple of good series in the postseason. But no, he certainly did not have a great postseason career. Hard for me to leave a HoFer off, even though I loved Glenn Davis as a kid.
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dafish
T-baller
Will Rogers never met f'n Dusty Baker or Jim Crane
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Post by dafish on Oct 16, 2021 0:33:03 GMT -6
C - Biggio 1B - Bagwell 2B - Altuve SS - Correa 3B - Bregman LF - Wynn RF - Jose Cruz CF - Springer DH - Berkman
Bench:
Cesar Cedeno Bob Watson Doug Rader Moises Alou Johnny Edwards
SP1: Nolan Ryan SP2: Larry Dierker SP3: Don Wilson SP4: JR Richards SP5: Roger Clemens-LR
Bullpen: 1. Billy Wagner-CL 2. Dave Smith 3. Joe Sambito-SU 4. Fred Gladding 5. Dotel 6. Lidge
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Post by Saint on Oct 16, 2021 8:51:29 GMT -6
C - Biggio 1B - Bagwell 2B - Altuve SS - Correa 3B - Bregman LF - Wynn RF - Jose Cruz CF - Springer DH - Berkman Bench: Cesar Cedeno Bob Watson Doug Rader Moises Alou Johnny Edwards SP1: Nolan Ryan SP2: Larry Dierker SP3: Don Wilson SP4: JR Richards SP5: Roger Clemens-LR Bullpen: 1. Billy Wagner-CL 2. Dave Smith 3. Joe Sambito-SU 4. Fred Gladding 5. Dotel 6. Lidge Oswalt didn't do it for you?
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dafish
T-baller
Will Rogers never met f'n Dusty Baker or Jim Crane
Posts: 461
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Post by dafish on Oct 16, 2021 9:11:00 GMT -6
Oswalt didn't do it for you? That was the one decison that I struggled with the most, and figuring who I had to bump off the bench for the Red Rooster. I may have fudged a bit, and extrapolated greatness on what Wilson would have accomplished without the tragic circumstances, and the fact Roy O screwed the pooch with some of his departing comments. Warranted or not, there was no need to shit on the fans. OTOH, if I had to pick just one as the greatest defensive Astro, (sorry Cedeno) it would be Doug Rader. Also don't forget even in that dead ball era, he was pretty much at the top of team HR's and RBI's during his time here. I just couldn't let that go unnoticed or recognized.
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Oct 16, 2021 9:37:14 GMT -6
How did Roy O shit on the fans? I don't remember that.
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dafish
T-baller
Will Rogers never met f'n Dusty Baker or Jim Crane
Posts: 461
Likes: 142
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Post by dafish on Oct 16, 2021 9:51:30 GMT -6
How did Roy O shit on the fans? I don't remember that. Can't seem to find any specifics online, but anecdotally seem to remember some unflattering comments during and up to the time he was dealt to the Phillies. Something akin to good riddance, and unthankful. I do remember we had a MLB member Roy O's girl, who had to change her screen name due to the bad feelings we fans had at Roy O at the time. OTOH, I read he came back for a 1 day contract in 2014 so he could retire an Astros. So there is obviously no long term animosity. Maybe a lot of the shit was contract static between himself and McLane and the ultimate idiot Ed Wade Anyone else remember more of the details.?
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Post by unionstation82 on Oct 16, 2021 10:02:35 GMT -6
How did Roy O shit on the fans? I don't remember that. Recency bias for people of my generation to appreciate Oswalt more than the older ones.
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Oct 16, 2021 10:03:34 GMT -6
How did Roy O shit on the fans? I don't remember that. Recency bias for people of my generation to appreciate Oswalt more than the older ones. But do you remember him doing something unsavory?
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Post by unionstation82 on Oct 16, 2021 10:10:05 GMT -6
Recency bias for people of my generation to appreciate Oswalt more than the older ones. But do you remember him doing something unsavory? Not in the slightest. Steady Eddie.
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dafish
T-baller
Will Rogers never met f'n Dusty Baker or Jim Crane
Posts: 461
Likes: 142
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Post by dafish on Oct 16, 2021 10:22:53 GMT -6
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Oct 16, 2021 11:58:12 GMT -6
How did Roy O shit on the fans? I don't remember that. Can't seem to find any specifics online, but anecdotally seem to remember some unflattering comments during and up to the time he was dealt to the Phillies. Something akin to good riddance, and unthankful. I do remember we had a MLB member Roy O's girl, who had to change her screen name due to the bad feelings we fans had at Roy O at the time. OTOH, I read he came back for a 1 day contract in 2014 so he could retire an Astros. So there is obviously no long term animosity. Maybe a lot of the shit was contract static between himself and McLane and the ultimate idiot Ed Wade Anyone else remember more of the details.? he was also recently inducted into the Houston Astros Hall of Fame.
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Post by Saint on Oct 16, 2021 13:23:54 GMT -6
He said a lot of nice things about the organization before his induction. I don't remember any issues with him. But, I was more focused on them sucking at that time.
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dafish
T-baller
Will Rogers never met f'n Dusty Baker or Jim Crane
Posts: 461
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Post by dafish on Oct 16, 2021 14:11:56 GMT -6
He said a lot of nice things about the organization before his induction. I don't remember any issues with him. But, I was more focused on them sucking at that time. Roy Oswalt was a hell of a competitor, and I seem to remember much of the static being leveied at Captain Wade, and his sinking ship. Maybe the biggest gripe was the turmoil he generated when the dang waters were already muddy. But Wade got his revenge.... trading him to a team that was as bad as us. Wish the old MLB forum archives still existed. A lot of what we talked about and remember resided, and died there.
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Post by Saint on Oct 16, 2021 14:21:03 GMT -6
He said a lot of nice things about the organization before his induction. I don't remember any issues with him. But, I was more focused on them sucking at that time. Roy Oswalt was a hell of a competitor, and I seem to remember much of the static being leveied at Captain Wade, and his sinking ship. Maybe the biggest gripe was the turmoil he generated when the dang waters were already muddy. But Wade got his revenge.... trading him to a team that was as bad as us. Wish the old MLB forum archives still existed. A lot of what we talked about and remember resided, and died there. There was so much arguing about Wade himself at the time.
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Post by unionstation82 on Oct 16, 2021 15:13:56 GMT -6
Roy Oswalt was a hell of a competitor, and I seem to remember much of the static being leveied at Captain Wade, and his sinking ship. Maybe the biggest gripe was the turmoil he generated when the dang waters were already muddy. But Wade got his revenge.... trading him to a team that was as bad as us. Wish the old MLB forum archives still existed. A lot of what we talked about and remember resided, and died there. There was so much arguing about Wade himself at the time. He sucked.
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