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Post by Saint on Sept 9, 2022 10:03:22 GMT -6
I stole this from Facebook. Could be complete BS or could be pretty interesting... "A baseball buddy of mine has been talking about a MLB story from back in June, and has continued to talk about it. Once I looked at the timeline and difference I have to tell you that I'm convinced there is something to his theory. On June 21, 2022, MLB issues a memo to all teams regarding the mudding of baseballs and use of the humidor. For those that aren't aware of the process... a baseball is very slick, so mudding is a technique that allows the pitcher to grip the ball. Using a humidor has been a practice at select ballparks, but this season MLB required all teams to use a humidor when preparing baseballs for games. It helps in preparing the moisture level of the baseball. I will post a link to the story below, but the bottom line is that a MLB investigation discovered that each team had a "different practice" of mudding baseballs and using a humidor. Some teams weren't using the humidors properly or consistently. Since this was a new rule MLB checked the process of every team after there was an increase of batters being hit by pitches, and an increase in errors by catchers and 3rd basemen. It was not "widely reported" but there are stories out there that some teams were using the humidor in a way that could potentially give their team an advantage. Using a humidor incorrectly can result in a lighter ball. A lighter ball is easier to throw at higher velocities. As a result MLB issued a memo providing ballclubs with a step by step process of the proper way of mudding a baseball, using a humidor, and even storing the baseballs until game day. This memo was dated June 21, 2022. Why is that date significant? Take a look at this: June 21: New York Yankees 50 - 18 Sept 9: New York Yankees 83 - 55 The Yankees have gone 33 - 37 since the memo came out. During the first 68 games of the season the Yankees had allowed 3 runs per game. Over the next 70 games since the MLB memo was released the Yankees have allowed 3.9 runs per game. That's nearly 1 more run per game! How have the Astros compared? The Astros were 42 - 25 when the memo came out. Since then they have gone 46 - 24. During their first 67 games they had allowed 3.4 runs per game. In the 70 games since they have allowed 3.1 per game. The Astros have been better, but essentially the same amount of runs allowed and their record has been very similar. My question is... why is this not being reported? Why is this not being discussed? We know from the past that whether it's the use of PED's or stealing signs with a camera that the Yankees have been involved in some duplicitous practices, and then boast about how they stopped once MLB issued a memo. Maybe we will eventually find out if the baseball was a factor in the Yankees' early season success, but one thing we can't dispute... the numbers don't lie." Link: www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/34125576/memo-mlb-require-all-teams-muddy-ball-using-exact-same-technique |
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Post by bearbryant on Sept 9, 2022 11:00:12 GMT -6
Probably because whatever the Yankees were muddying at the beginning of the season, they stopped after they got the warning. So it's okay to move on
Related to that, I still haven't seen video evidence of the Astros cheating after the commissioner handed down his warning in Sept 2017, or the correlated data. I've seen plenty of video and graphs compiling the can-bangs to show who cheated and when during that summer, but I'm still waiting for the video showing we did at season's end (and postseason)
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Post by unionstation82 on Sept 9, 2022 11:02:47 GMT -6
Probably because whatever the Yankees were muddying at the beginning of the season, they stopped after they got the warning. So it's okay to move on
Related to that, I still haven't seen video evidence of the Astros cheating after the commissioner handed down his warning in Sept 2017, or the correlated data. I've seen plenty of video and graphs compiling the can-bangs to show who cheated and when during that summer, but I'm still waiting for the video showing we did at season's end (and postseason)
You and the MLB-appointed gunman are waiting to see the evidence. |
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Post by bearbryant on Sept 9, 2022 11:21:47 GMT -6
Probably because whatever the Yankees were muddying at the beginning of the season, they stopped after they got the warning. So it's okay to move on
Related to that, I still haven't seen video evidence of the Astros cheating after the commissioner handed down his warning in Sept 2017, or the correlated data. I've seen plenty of video and graphs compiling the can-bangs to show who cheated and when during that summer, but I'm still waiting for the video showing we did at season's end (and postseason)
You and the MLB-appointed gunman are waiting to see the evidence. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Sept 9, 2022 11:24:25 GMT -6
You and the MLB-appointed gunman are waiting to see the evidence. Why do you think I crap on Crane? |
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Post by bearbryant on Sept 9, 2022 11:29:36 GMT -6
My least favorite part of the scandal was the public apology. Bregman and Correa delivered it even though George and Yuli were the veterans out of the four remaining on the roster. That was disgraceful Why do you think I crap on Crane? |
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Post by Saint on Sept 9, 2022 12:09:29 GMT -6
Probably because whatever the Yankees were muddying at the beginning of the season, they stopped after they got the warning. So it's okay to move on
Related to that, I still haven't seen video evidence of the Astros cheating after the commissioner handed down his warning in Sept 2017, or the correlated data. I've seen plenty of video and graphs compiling the can-bangs to show who cheated and when during that summer, but I'm still waiting for the video showing we did at season's end (and postseason)
You mean Jomboy didn't release it yet? |
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Post by m240 on Sept 9, 2022 12:55:07 GMT -6
Damn Yankees.
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Post by unionstation82 on Sept 9, 2022 13:14:43 GMT -6
Why do you think I crap on Crane? It mainly started when he played principal and forced those cringy apologies from Bregman and Altuve. The anti-Astro sentiment was never going to go away with that. In fact, it made things worse. |
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Post by Saint on Sept 9, 2022 13:17:12 GMT -6
I dunno. I thought it was cause Click's a bad GM and he should've hired someone else It mainly started when he played principal and forced those cringy apologies from Bregman and Altuve. The anti-Astro sentiment was never going to go away with that. In fact, it made things worse. The thing is, we have no idea what sorts of requests/arguments/concessions were made between Crane and Manfred behind closed doors. It's very possible that Manfred "unofficially" laid out what he wanted Crane to do in order to maintain the title, tainted or not. |
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Post by bearbryant on Sept 9, 2022 13:25:03 GMT -6
The media inflating how devastating our scandal was for me is like the excessive praise for Maldonado. I just tune it out when it gets annoying
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Post by unionstation82 on Sept 9, 2022 13:30:06 GMT -6
It mainly started when he played principal and forced those cringy apologies from Bregman and Altuve. The anti-Astro sentiment was never going to go away with that. In fact, it made things worse. The thing is, we have no idea what sorts of requests/arguments/concessions were made between Crane and Manfred behind closed doors. It's very possible that Manfred "unofficially" laid out what he wanted Crane to do in order to maintain the title, tainted or not. We also don’t know Crane’s role in the scandal. I don’t buy the “babe in the woods” act. |
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Post by bearbryant on Sept 9, 2022 13:44:48 GMT -6
The thing is, we have no idea what sorts of requests/arguments/concessions were made between Crane and Manfred behind closed doors. It's very possible that Manfred "unofficially" laid out what he wanted Crane to do in order to maintain the title, tainted or not. We also don’t know Crane’s role in the scandal. I don’t buy the “babe in the woods” act. |
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Post by Ashitaka on Sept 9, 2022 14:08:13 GMT -6
The thing is, we have no idea what sorts of requests/arguments/concessions were made between Crane and Manfred behind closed doors. It's very possible that Manfred "unofficially" laid out what he wanted Crane to do in order to maintain the title, tainted or not. We also don’t know Crane’s role in the scandal. I don’t buy the “babe in the woods” act. I would have a hard time believing that Crane knew anything or played any role, for the simple reason that most owners have very little to do with the day-to-day operations of their teams, much less what actually goes on in the games and in the clubhouses. It's not even particularly likely that Luhnow would know; it was player created and player led, and most players feel a distinct disconnect from the guys in business suits, especially those with the calculating, data-driven reputation that Luhnow made for himself. So the idea that Crane, who isn't even at MMP most of the time during the season, was a part of it in some way, is just extremely unlikely to my mind. That said, you're right that his response was dumb. He's a businessman and most owners are, and it was clear that he did not appreciate the different between a sports team and a regular business. He believed that some rote apologies would be the first step towards moving on. But sports aren't the same as other businesses. No one particularly cares about scandals involving the people who make their shoes or whatever. But sports are people's passions and they live vicariously through them; any scandal there feels like a direct assault against them to a lot of fans. Crane was sorely mistaken that it would all blow over after a few months, and that the media would let it all blow over without milking it for every ounce of revenue-generating rageclicking they could get from it. |
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Post by Ashitaka on Sept 9, 2022 14:12:39 GMT -6
It mainly started when he played principal and forced those cringy apologies from Bregman and Altuve. The anti-Astro sentiment was never going to go away with that. In fact, it made things worse. The thing is, we have no idea what sorts of requests/arguments/concessions were made between Crane and Manfred behind closed doors. It's very possible that Manfred "unofficially" laid out what he wanted Crane to do in order to maintain the title, tainted or not. This has been my thinking from the start. Our players were dumb (shocking surprise from a group that thought no one would catch on to a system that relied on them making noises loud enough to hear from the field and it's microphones) in that they actually cooperated when the players union would have protect them. Manfred couldn't do anything to them, even if they didn't cooperate. But he knew at least some heads had a roll. There is not one doubt in my mind that he demanded both Hinch and Luhnow get fired in exchange for him leaving Crane and the trophy alone. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Sept 9, 2022 18:47:35 GMT -6
We also don’t know Crane’s role in the scandal. I don’t buy the “babe in the woods” act. It’s hard for me to picture either Luhnow or Hinch hiding such a thing from their employer or Crane not knowing anything at all about the goings on of his business. I do buy the idea of Manfred having a hand in the firings. |
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talshill
Arbitration Eligible
Vini, vici, pavori.
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Post by talshill on Sept 9, 2022 20:46:05 GMT -6
We also don’t know Crane’s role in the scandal. I don’t buy the “babe in the woods” act. I would have a hard time believing that Crane knew anything or played any role, for the simple reason that most owners have very little to do with the day-to-day operations of their teams, much less what actually goes on in the games and in the clubhouses. It's not even particularly likely that Luhnow would know; it was player created and player led, and most players feel a distinct disconnect from the guys in business suits, especially those with the calculating, data-driven reputation that Luhnow made for himself. So the idea that Crane, who isn't even at MMP most of the time during the season, was a part of it in some way, is just extremely unlikely to my mind. That said, you're right that his response was dumb. He's a businessman and most owners are, and it was clear that he did not appreciate the different between a sports team and a regular business. He believed that some rote apologies would be the first step towards moving on. But sports aren't the same as other businesses. No one particularly cares about scandals involving the people who make their shoes or whatever. But sports are people's passions and they live vicariously through them; any scandal there feels like a direct assault against them to a lot of fans. Crane was sorely mistaken that it would all blow over after a few months, and that the media would let it all blow over without milking it for every ounce of revenue-generating rageclicking they could get from it. Maybe Crane didn't know. But if Luhnow didn't know then he wasn't paying enough attention. Plus they have the email of the assistant GM talking about "dark arts" and camera angles. It wasn't just players. |
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koolade2
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Post by koolade2 on Sept 9, 2022 21:41:55 GMT -6
I don't care about Crane, Luhnow, and the scandal at this point. Every team was cheating and they took it out on the Astros.
I said earlier in the Year something was up with the Yankees and their record. As it didn't make sense from last year to this year and that above and the story with the muddling of the baseball makes a lot of sense.
How many other teams have such a discrepancy with a winning record? The Yankees lose again tonight which proves that the record after the memo is who the Yankees really were. I wonder what their record would be.
If I was a team close to them in the standing I would be raising Hell behind the scenes but we Know MLB needs the Yankees and LA in the Playoffs for ratings. Just think with that 33-37 record they would be at most a .500 team.
Looks like Boone and Co. where cheating early in the year.
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Post by abregmanfan on Sept 9, 2022 21:50:57 GMT -6
Yanks lost again.
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koolade2
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Post by koolade2 on Sept 9, 2022 21:55:55 GMT -6
As I had mentioned also but what I would like to see is Tampa catch the Yankees and pass them. Hell if that happen would the Kids keep Boone after that. Boone is blowhard and needs to be knock down a peg or two. |
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Post by bearbryant on Sept 10, 2022 4:22:24 GMT -6
Crane didn't fire Luhnow because of the cheating. He was tired of reading news reports about boorish behavior attributed to his front office hires, and saw his opportunity. He was trainspotting It’s hard for me to picture either Luhnow or Hinch hiding such a thing from their employer or Crane not knowing anything at all about the goings on of his business. |
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Post by m240 on Sept 10, 2022 6:40:22 GMT -6
Crane didn't fire Luhnow because of the cheating. He was tired of reading news reports about boorish behavior attributed to his front office hires, and saw his opportunity. He was trainspotting It’s hard for me to picture either Luhnow or Hinch hiding such a thing from their employer or Crane not knowing anything at all about the goings on of his business. I do buy the idea of Manfred having a hand in the firings. Hinch knew and said he knew. He did not say whether he told Luhnow that it was an ongoing thing but did say that he told Luhnow. Hinch was fired. Luhnow did not say he knew nor did he deny it was an ongoing thing and did not say he told Crane. He did not say he told Crane. Luhnow was fired but was paid 10 million dollars to settle his lawsuit for wrongful termination. Crane said he had no knowledge of the situation and paid Luhnow 10 million dollars to settle the lawsuit and had a nondisclosure agreement signed by Luhnow signed as part of the deal. Everyone gets to have their own opinion as to who knew what. Seems pretty simple to me. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Sept 10, 2022 9:16:05 GMT -6
It’s hard for me to picture either Luhnow or Hinch hiding such a thing from their employer or Crane not knowing anything at all about the goings on of his business. Well, Tal had the experience of previously being fired by the Astros. |
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Post by bearbryant on Sept 10, 2022 11:30:11 GMT -6
The Astros don't have a Tal Smith running to the owner to express his concern every time he thinks the GM may be coloring outside the lines. That was another time and era Well, Tal had the experience of previously being fired by the Astros. I admit had Drayton been owner, something like this wouldn't have escaped his attention. It's one of the reasons I don't give a shit about the scandal all things considered
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Post by unionstation82 on Sept 10, 2022 12:13:52 GMT -6
Well, Tal had the experience of previously being fired by the Astros. I admit had Drayton been owner, something like this wouldn't have escaped his attention. It's one of the reasons I don't give a shit about the scandal all things considered
I just don’t give a shit because all kinds of foolishness goes on in baseball. It’s ingrained in its DNA. For them to act like the Astros invented cheating is laughable. The real outrage is that an upstart team like ours had the audacity to defeat storied favorites like the Red Sox, Yankees, and Dodgers in the postseason and also won a championship in the process. That’s what the players and owners are afraid to admit. |
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Post by m240 on Sept 10, 2022 12:26:36 GMT -6
So it is starting to look possible that the Yankees may fall to third place. Now that would really be an interesting before and after look.
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dafish
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Post by dafish on Sept 18, 2022 21:46:29 GMT -6
There was a lot of dirt swept under the rug tht the Red Sox and Yankees were using similar tactics we were using through the mid 2010's. Of course the East Coast MLB Cabal wasn't going to sacrifice those teams. We were made an example of, and this is the main reason, I have pretty much sworn off the game I was fantaically crazy about since 1965.
And in this case, not only is the data and stats fishy for the Yanquis, I think there is pretty compelling and plausible proof that the Commish's office should investigate. But I would suggest we not hold our breaths.
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Sept 19, 2022 9:21:17 GMT -6
You're acting like any of that is a new phenomenon. You've been a fan since 1965, and this (or something like it) was already going on then.
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dafish
T-baller
Will Rogers never met f'n Dusty Baker or Jim Crane
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Post by dafish on Sept 19, 2022 23:47:54 GMT -6
You're acting like any of that is a new phenomenon. You've been a fan since 1965, and this (or something like it) was already going on then. Never said cheating is new to MLB. It's probably went on since Day 1. As evidence, baseball used to be a hell of lot meaner and cut throat. From Cobb's sharpened spikes to headhunting beanballs from Drysdale, Gibson, and Marichal. Black Sox were over a 100 years ao, and that involvd throwing WS games. Investigative reporting of the slimey underbelly of this game has always avoided. And if it truly came to light, I'd venture 75% of all the MLB teams are guilty of just as heinous crimes as the Astros committed. My point was the hypocricy that with this perceived new standard of pure play sure doesn't apply to the east coast POS'. Yeah, my team got caught, and I semi-bolted. But the perception and face of cheating being slapped on this franchise should be called out , and the true dirt unearthed on all this shit. Till then, every other fan of any other team taunting us can go f*** themsleves. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Sept 20, 2022 11:41:46 GMT -6
And my point was that the hypocrisy and fellatio of the "elite" teams isn't new either. The Astros being treated as second rate didn't start when they got caught cheating.
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