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Post by Saint on Jan 13, 2023 19:10:08 GMT -6
New Candidates:
Bronson Arroyo
Carlos Beltrán
Matt Cain
R.A. Dickey
Jacoby Ellsbury
Andre Ethier
J.J. Hardy
John Lackey
Mike Napoli
Jhonny Peralta
Francisco Rodríguez
Huston Street
Jered Weaver
Jayson Werth.
Returning Candidates:
Scott Rolen
63.2%
6th year
Todd Helton
52.0%
5th year
Billy Wagner
51.0%
8th year
Andruw Jones
41.4%
6th year
Gary Sheffield
40.6%
9th year
Álex Rodríguez
34.3%
2nd year
Jeff Kent
32.7%
10th year
Manny Ramírez
28.2%
6th year
Omar Vizquel
23.9%
6th year
Andy Pettitte
10.7%
5th year
Jimmy Rollins
9.4%
2nd year
Bobby Abreu
8.6%
4th year
Mark Buehrle
5.8%
3rd year
Torii Hunter
5.3%
3rdyear
If Wagner is going to have a chance in his last couple years, he really needs to get past 60% this year.
Kent looks done for, which I don't understand. Great offensive career for any position, but definitely for 2B (including being the all-time HR leader for 2B). He was respectable defensively, as well. Had strong postseason numbers, won an MVP and several other awards. I'd kick Baines out in a heartbeat and add Kent, personally.
Andruw Jones and Helton are generating a lot of buzz recently. I don't see how Helton can generate half the votes when Berkman couldn't even stay on the ballot...
I hope Rolen makes it this year.
My picks: Rolen, Wagner, Abreu. Kent, Beltran
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Post by Saint on Jan 13, 2023 19:32:03 GMT -6
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Jan 14, 2023 0:49:36 GMT -6
My picks: Rolen, Wagner, Abreu. Kent, Beltran You don' think ARod is a HOFer? |
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Post by Ashitaka on Jan 14, 2023 1:04:09 GMT -6
Andruw Jones is arguably the best defensive CF of all time (certainly in the conversation) and he hit over 400 bombs. It's a travesty that he's not in already IMO.
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Post by Saint on Jan 14, 2023 8:41:48 GMT -6
My picks: Rolen, Wagner, Abreu. Kent, Beltran You don' think ARod is a HOFer? Not until Bonds gets in. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Jan 14, 2023 10:39:41 GMT -6
You don' think ARod is a HOFer? Not until Bonds gets in. They both should already be in, first ballot. Even if they're dickheads. |
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Post by Saint on Jan 14, 2023 13:49:51 GMT -6
They both should already be in, first ballot. Even if they're dickheads. I don't know, didn't A-Rod cheat twice AND lie about it after the rules were clearly established? Bonds was at least in a gray area with the rules. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Jan 14, 2023 16:15:43 GMT -6
They both should already be in, first ballot. Even if they're dickheads. At this rate, Altuve has no shot with the first ballot. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Jan 14, 2023 18:08:45 GMT -6
They both should already be in, first ballot. Even if they're dickheads. At this rate, Altuve has no shot with the first ballot. Or any ballot. These pussified writers will never let him in. 6 years later and all they still talk about is the sign stealing. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Jan 14, 2023 18:09:37 GMT -6
They both should already be in, first ballot. Even if they're dickheads. I don't know, didn't A-Rod cheat twice AND lie about it after the rules were clearly established? Bonds was at least in a gray area with the rules. Just like Bonds, it wasn't the steroids that made ARod HOF-worthy. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Jan 14, 2023 19:15:48 GMT -6
At this rate, Altuve has no shot with the first ballot. Or any ballot. These pussified writers will never let him in. 6 years later and all they still talk about is the sign stealing. 100% |
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Post by Saint on Jan 14, 2023 20:10:38 GMT -6
I think Altuve will make it if he continues to build such a strong case.
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Jan 14, 2023 20:48:04 GMT -6
I think Altuve will make it if he continues to build such a strong case. if building a strong case mattered, ARod and Bonds would be in. |
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Post by Saint on Jan 24, 2023 17:37:04 GMT -6
So Rolen is in. Helton and Wagner are trending well to make it next year.
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Post by Saint on Jan 24, 2023 17:41:36 GMT -6
Beltran ended up with 46% which puts him well on pace, as a big chunk of voters wouldn't have put him on the 1st ballot regardless. I think he gets in 3-4 years. Which means Altuve should do well too, I would expect.
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Post by Saint on Jan 24, 2023 20:01:11 GMT -6
Kent falls off the ballot.
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Post by Ashitaka on Jan 24, 2023 22:22:41 GMT -6
Stunning to see Helton get as much love as he does while Kent falls off and some like Andruw Jones never get close.
And hey, Berkman finished with a 144 OPS+ compared to Helton's 133, and was initially an outfielder (even a CF!) and hit just three fewer HR in two fewer seasons, and outside of Coors. But no love for him when he hit the ballot. The Helton love is just confusing to me. Great hitter, but not close to the HoF.
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Post by Saint on Jan 25, 2023 8:40:06 GMT -6
Stunning to see Helton get as much love as he does while Kent falls off and some like Andruw Jones never get close. And hey, Berkman finished with a 144 OPS+ compared to Helton's 133, and was initially an outfielder (even a CF!) and hit just three fewer HR in two fewer seasons, and outside of Coors. But no love for him when he hit the ballot. The Helton love is just confusing to me. Great hitter, but not close to the HoF. Yeah that doesn't make any sense to me either. Besides, Helton's splits: Home: .345/.441/.607 1.048 OPS Away: .287/.386/.469 .855 OPS You can't tell me that Helton would have been close to a HoFer if he didn't have the Coors effect. For comparison with Berkman, .946 OPS Home and .940 Away. On the plus side, I'm really glad to see Wagner continuing to rise well. And easily the biggest chunk of his career in an Astros uniform, he should go in as an Astro. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Jan 25, 2023 13:25:50 GMT -6
Forget Rolen, why isn’t Andruw Jones in the HoF? Dude was a generational talent and a 5-tool player.
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Post by Saint on Jan 25, 2023 14:08:25 GMT -6
Forget Rolen, why isn’t Andruw Jones in the HoF? Dude was a generational talent and a 5-tool player. Would you put him in before a multi-MVP winning OFer with better offensive numbers? |
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Post by unionstation82 on Jan 25, 2023 14:12:58 GMT -6
Forget Rolen, why isn’t Andruw Jones in the HoF? Dude was a generational talent and a 5-tool player. Would you put him in before a multi-MVP winning OFer with better offensive numbers? I would vote him in anytime. I don’t care about other OF’s. |
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Post by bearbryant on Jan 25, 2023 14:27:11 GMT -6
Other than being dishonest about PEDs, the one thing Bonds, Clemens, McGwire and Palmeiro all have in common is they were established All-Stars before players started using steroids. That may be where the electors decided to draw the line is those 4 knew better
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Post by Saint on Jan 25, 2023 14:32:30 GMT -6
Would you put him in before a multi-MVP winning OFer with better offensive numbers? I would vote him in anytime. I don’t care about other OF’s. The point is that you have Dale Murphy who hasn't gotten in who was a far better hitter, and then players with just as good total value who barely received any support (Lofton, Abreu, Hunter). Why would Jones be more deserving? The bottom line is that we have a ton of depth of very good OFers waiting. Andruw Jones seems to be gaining support so he'll probably make it in a year or two. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Jan 25, 2023 14:35:14 GMT -6
I would vote him in anytime. I don’t care about other OF’s. The point is that you have Dale Murphy who hasn't gotten in who was a far better hitter, and then players with just as good total value who barely received any support (Lofton, Abreu, Hunter). Why would Jones be more deserving? The bottom line is that we have a ton of depth of very good OFers waiting. Andruw Jones seems to be gaining support so he'll probably make it in a year or two. Jones to me was a feared power hitter on a perennial postseason team who also played flawless defense. He was a generational talent. Scott Rolen mainly made it on defense while being good at hitting. If he could make it, why not Jones? That’s the real question. |
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Post by Saint on Jan 25, 2023 14:39:12 GMT -6
The point is that you have Dale Murphy who hasn't gotten in who was a far better hitter, and then players with just as good total value who barely received any support (Lofton, Abreu, Hunter). Why would Jones be more deserving? The bottom line is that we have a ton of depth of very good OFers waiting. Andruw Jones seems to be gaining support so he'll probably make it in a year or two. Jones to me was a feared power hitter on a perennial postseason team who also played flawless defense. He was a generational talent. Scott Rolen mainly made it on defense while being good at hitting. If he could make it, why not Jones? That’s the real question. Because Rolen is a top-10 all-time 3B. Jones is not a top-10 all-time OFer. But again, Jones will make it. It took Rolen forever too. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Jan 25, 2023 15:43:33 GMT -6
Jones to me was a feared power hitter on a perennial postseason team who also played flawless defense. He was a generational talent. Scott Rolen mainly made it on defense while being good at hitting. If he could make it, why not Jones? That’s the real question. Because Rolen is a top-10 all-time 3B. Jones is not a top-10 all-time OFer. But again, Jones will make it. It took Rolen forever too. Andruw Jones wasn’t Griffey but he was damn good. Growing up in the era when the Braves handed the Astros their beatings, I’m surprised you don’t recognize his excellence. Rolen was White Beltre with worse hitting. |
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Post by Ashitaka on Jan 25, 2023 15:47:23 GMT -6
Jones to me was a feared power hitter on a perennial postseason team who also played flawless defense. He was a generational talent. Scott Rolen mainly made it on defense while being good at hitting. If he could make it, why not Jones? That’s the real question. Because Rolen is a top-10 all-time 3B. Jones is not a top-10 all-time OFer. But again, Jones will make it. It took Rolen forever too. Why do people lump OF together but not INF? Jones was an elite CF, not just some chunky dude in LF. You wouldn't lump 1B in with SS right? |
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Post by Saint on Jan 25, 2023 15:49:56 GMT -6
Because Rolen is a top-10 all-time 3B. Jones is not a top-10 all-time OFer. But again, Jones will make it. It took Rolen forever too. Andruw Jones wasn’t Griffey but he was damn good. Growing up in the era when the Braves handed the Astros their beatings, I’m surprised you don’t recognize his excellence. Rolen was White Beltre with worse hitting. I recognize he was very good. I won't be upset if he makes the HoF. I also won't be upset if he doesn't make the Hall. I think there are several guys more deserving than him. |
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Post by Saint on Jan 25, 2023 15:53:03 GMT -6
Because Rolen is a top-10 all-time 3B. Jones is not a top-10 all-time OFer. But again, Jones will make it. It took Rolen forever too. Why do people lump OF together but not INF? Jones was an elite CF, not just some chunky dude in LF. You wouldn't lump 1B in with SS right? I consider 3B, SS, and 2B kind of a lump, to be honest. There are differences, of course. But even amongst CFers, I wouldn't consider Andruw Jones a top-10 all-time CFer. I'd even still rank Kenny Lofton as more deserving than him too. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Jan 25, 2023 16:01:00 GMT -6
Because Rolen is a top-10 all-time 3B. Jones is not a top-10 all-time OFer. But again, Jones will make it. It took Rolen forever too. Why do people lump OF together but not INF? Jones was an elite CF, not just some chunky dude in LF. You wouldn't lump 1B in with SS right? Generational talent. Dude hit two bombs in his first two WS plate appearances at age 19. |
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