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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Nov 27, 2023 7:40:09 GMT -6
The first HOF ballot has been released. Who would you vote for?  |
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Post by kyledriver1980 on Nov 27, 2023 9:00:47 GMT -6
I’d vote for: Adrian Beltre, Todd Helton, Andruw Jones, Andy Pettitte, Manny Ramirez, Alex Rodriguez, Gary Sheffield, and Billy Wagner.
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Post by thomasj13 on Nov 27, 2023 9:28:52 GMT -6
I’d vote for: Adrian Beltre, Todd Helton, Andruw Jones, Andy Pettitte, Manny Ramirez, Alex Rodriguez, Gary Sheffield, and Billy Wagner. Joe Mauer either next year or the following |
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Post by churchill on Nov 27, 2023 13:50:14 GMT -6
I’d vote for: Adrian Beltre, Todd Helton, Andruw Jones, Andy Pettitte, Manny Ramirez, Alex Rodriguez, Gary Sheffield, and Billy Wagner. Manny Ramirez was twice busted for PEDS, l doubt he gets in before Barry Bonds. Same for ARod... |
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HOF ballot
Nov 27, 2023 14:34:22 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Nov 27, 2023 14:34:22 GMT -6
I don't care about PEDs. Bonds and Clemens and Arod should have all been 1st ballot HOFers.
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Post by Ashitaka on Nov 27, 2023 18:27:47 GMT -6
Adrian Beltre, Andruw Jones, Chase Utley, Billy Wagner
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Post by churchill on Nov 27, 2023 18:55:38 GMT -6
I don't care about PEDs. Bonds and Clemens and Arod should have all been 1st ballot HOFers. but they won't get in. |
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Post by Saint on Nov 27, 2023 22:04:00 GMT -6
Beltre, Beltran, Abreu, Wagner, Mauer.
I wouldn't vote for any PED player until Clemens and Bonds get in.
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HOF ballot
Nov 27, 2023 22:05:16 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by Saint on Nov 27, 2023 22:05:16 GMT -6
I have a real good feeling about Wagner this year. I would bet:
Beltre, Helton, Wagner.
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HOF ballot
Nov 27, 2023 22:08:35 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by Saint on Nov 27, 2023 22:08:35 GMT -6
I don't care about PEDs. Bonds and Clemens and Arod should have all been 1st ballot HOFers. A-Rod is just too much of a d-bag for me to vote for. Did you read the article about the amazing amounts of lies and schemes he was involved in to get PEDs and cover it up and beyond? The guy is complete scum. The fact that he has somehow woed his way to be on these postseason broadcast teams is insanity. Almost as crazy as Ray Lewis being revered after he killed a guy. |
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Post by bearbryant on Nov 28, 2023 9:57:09 GMT -6
Bonds and Clemens aren't getting in for the same reason Palmeiro and McGwire didn't get in. All four were established All-Stars before players started taking steroids, and all were dishonest about it. That may well be where the electors decided to draw the line whether or not we agree
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Nov 28, 2023 9:58:07 GMT -6
I don't care about PEDs. Bonds and Clemens and Arod should have all been 1st ballot HOFers. A-Rod is just too much of a d-bag for me to vote for. Did you read the article about the amazing amounts of lies and schemes he was involved in to get PEDs and cover it up and beyond? The guy is complete scum. The fact that he has somehow woed his way to be on these postseason broadcast teams is insanity. Almost as crazy as Ray Lewis being revered after he killed a guy. Basing anything on his personality is a pussy move. He was one of the best to ever play baseball. |
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Post by Saint on Nov 29, 2023 7:48:11 GMT -6
A-Rod is just too much of a d-bag for me to vote for. Did you read the article about the amazing amounts of lies and schemes he was involved in to get PEDs and cover it up and beyond? The guy is complete scum. The fact that he has somehow woed his way to be on these postseason broadcast teams is insanity. Almost as crazy as Ray Lewis being revered after he killed a guy. Basing anything on his personality is a pussy move. He was one of the best to ever play baseball. It's not his personality. It's his actions. The guy is next level. I can see Bonds and Clemens since PEDs were a murky issue during their time. But the guys who broke the rules multiple times afterwards lose some credit. Edit: And I'm not saying I would lose sleep if he got in. I just wouldn't vote for him personally. I think he was actually detrimental to baseball. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Nov 29, 2023 7:56:55 GMT -6
Basing anything on his personality is a pussy move. He was one of the best to ever play baseball. It's not his personality. It's his actions. The guy is next level. I can see Bonds and Clemens since PEDs were a murky issue during their time. But the guys who broke the rules multiple times afterwards lose some credit. Edit: And I'm not saying I would lose sleep if he got in. I just wouldn't vote for him personally. I think he was actually detrimental to baseball. Didn’t he only admit to steroids when he was on the Rangers? |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Nov 29, 2023 9:06:26 GMT -6
Basing anything on his personality is a pussy move. He was one of the best to ever play baseball. It's not his personality. It's his actions. The guy is next level. I can see Bonds and Clemens since PEDs were a murky issue during their time. But the guys who broke the rules multiple times afterwards lose some credit. Edit: And I'm not saying I would lose sleep if he got in. I just wouldn't vote for him personally. I think he was actually detrimental to baseball. Besides PEDs, which rule did he break to make him ineligible for HOF? |
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HOF ballot
Nov 29, 2023 18:01:23 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by Saint on Nov 29, 2023 18:01:23 GMT -6
It's not his personality. It's his actions. The guy is next level. I can see Bonds and Clemens since PEDs were a murky issue during their time. But the guys who broke the rules multiple times afterwards lose some credit. Edit: And I'm not saying I would lose sleep if he got in. I just wouldn't vote for him personally. I think he was actually detrimental to baseball. Didn’t he only admit to steroids when he was on the Rangers? Then he got banned again with the Yankees. |
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HOF ballot
Nov 29, 2023 18:01:57 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by Saint on Nov 29, 2023 18:01:57 GMT -6
It's not his personality. It's his actions. The guy is next level. I can see Bonds and Clemens since PEDs were a murky issue during their time. But the guys who broke the rules multiple times afterwards lose some credit. Edit: And I'm not saying I would lose sleep if he got in. I just wouldn't vote for him personally. I think he was actually detrimental to baseball. Besides PEDs, which rule did he break to make him ineligible for HOF? Oh he's not ineligible at all. I just don't think he's worth a vote. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Nov 30, 2023 9:30:29 GMT -6
Besides PEDs, which rule did he break to make him ineligible for HOF? Oh he's not ineligible at all. I just don't think he's worth a vote. Is he the only one who doesn't meet your stringent personality criteria? |
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Post by Saint on Nov 30, 2023 9:31:43 GMT -6
Oh he's not ineligible at all. I just don't think he's worth a vote. Is he the only one who doesn't meet your stringent personality criteria? The only one on the current ballot. Although I don't love Manny Ramirez either. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Dec 2, 2023 10:42:12 GMT -6
Is he the only one who doesn't meet your stringent personality criteria? The only one on the current ballot. Although I don't love Manny Ramirez either. Manny is on my Mt. Rushmore of feared hitters growing up. The others are Bonds, Cabrera, and Pujols. |
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HOF ballot
Dec 30, 2023 18:29:11 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by Saint on Dec 30, 2023 18:29:11 GMT -6
Wagner is looking good so far. 24% of ballots in and currently at 77%.
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HOF ballot
Dec 30, 2023 19:06:05 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by thomasj13 on Dec 30, 2023 19:06:05 GMT -6
Wagner is looking good so far. 24% of ballots in and currently at 77%. Go Billy! |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Jan 9, 2024 8:47:02 GMT -6
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Post by Ashitaka on Jan 9, 2024 11:52:23 GMT -6
Todd Helton getting in while Berkman didn't even sniff it is silly, TBH.
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Jan 9, 2024 13:26:04 GMT -6
Todd Helton getting in while Berkman didn't even sniff it is silly, TBH. their numbers comparable? |
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Post by Ashitaka on Jan 9, 2024 15:38:50 GMT -6
Todd Helton getting in while Berkman didn't even sniff it is silly, TBH. their numbers comparable? Berkman: 1,879 G, 144 OPS+, 366 HR, 1,234 RBI, .949 post-season OPS, 6x AS game, played four positions (including CF for a while!) Helton: 2,247 G, 133 OPS+. 369 HR, 1,406 RBI, .584 post-season OPS, 5x AS game, 1B only (aside from 15 games in corner OF in his rookie season) So, comparable? Honestly comparing them is an insult to Berkman if anything. Helton benefitted greatly from Coors field as the OPS+ shows; he hit 91 home runs in the two years before they installed the humidor, once it was installed he never even hit 35 again. Despite this massive advantage and the fact that he played in 368 more games than Berkman, he managed just three more home runs and less than 200 additional RBI. Then you look at the playoff performance and it isn't even close. Berkman is just plain better in almost every way (Helton walked more than he struck out, I'll give him that). EDIT: And just to be clear in case there are any Helton fans around, this is not an anti-Helton post. I think he was an excellent hitter and a strong case can be made that someone who was 30% better than league average for nearly two decades should be in the Hall of Fame. My only point is that, if Helton is in, it's utterly ridiculous that Berkman isn't, and barely even got a few votes when he went on the ballot. |
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Post by m240 on Jan 10, 2024 8:14:34 GMT -6
There is usually some erosion that takes place between the publicly known votes versus the total vote. Being over 80% at this point is a positive but not convincing position. Wagner has gained 5 votes in the known votes though, though he needs quite a few more.
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Post by m240 on Jan 10, 2024 8:23:35 GMT -6
at 135 votes Wagner is at 79.3%.
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Post by bearbryant on Jan 10, 2024 13:56:16 GMT -6
There's not many HOF inductees who played the comparably fewer number of games that Berkman did. Johnny Mize and Bobby Doerr are examples, but they were 9-time All-Stars
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Post by Saint on Jan 12, 2024 16:50:01 GMT -6
Todd Helton getting in while Berkman didn't even sniff it is silly, TBH. their numbers comparable? Helton hit at a Hall level in Coors. Berkman hit at a Hall level everywhere. Unfortunately Berkman is like Dick Allen in that he just didn't reach enough high enough counting milestones. |
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