Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2018 21:55:41 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by blcoach8 on Aug 4, 2018 23:01:10 GMT -6
What Osuna has to say and how it is received will be important. Tonight's meeting apparently didn't upset anyone since they went out and hammered the Dodgers 14-0.
|
|
|
|
Post by bearbryant on Aug 5, 2018 1:33:29 GMT -6
I think AJ's a really good manager .. one of the best in the bigs. And he wrote a good lineup for the 14-0 win
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2018 15:01:28 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by blcoach8 on Aug 5, 2018 15:10:24 GMT -6
I have learned to pay very little attention to the press regarding situations such as this.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2018 15:12:30 GMT -6
I have learned to pay very little attention to the press regarding situations such as this. This a'int politics. What are you talking about? What kind of agenda would they have? |
|
|
|
Post by blcoach8 on Aug 5, 2018 17:15:06 GMT -6
I have learned to pay very little attention to the press regarding situations such as this. This a'int politics. What are you talking about? What kind of agenda would they have? Reporters always want a headline no matter the subject. I just don't trust the media at all. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2018 17:24:24 GMT -6
This a'int politics. What are you talking about? What kind of agenda would they have? Reporters always want a headline no matter the subject. I just don't trust the media at all. I understand and agree to that point. But this is not a political op-ed. Tell you what..... Read the article, and tell me what is not true or accurate. I will grant the reporter worked a couple "dramatization points", but the the facts as he statedare pretty hard to dispute. |
|
|
|
Post by blcoach8 on Aug 5, 2018 17:39:25 GMT -6
The article didn't sound like McHugh was upset with Osuna being here. I think his attitude is the proper one.....wait and see how things go before forming an opinion. If he can sell Verlander, things will be OK, especially if he pitches effectively. What keeps this from being a risky move is getting rid of Giles in the deal. Osuna has a huge upside where talent is concerned. He will have to prove himself before being fully accepted in that clubhouse. How he handles this will determine if Luhnow screwed the pooch.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2018 17:41:41 GMT -6
The article didn't sound like McHugh was upset with Osuna being here. I think his attitude is the proper one.....wait and see how things go before forming an opinion. If he can sell Verlander, things will be OK, especially if he pitches effectively. What keeps this from being a risky move is getting rid of Giles in the deal. Osuna has a huge upside where talent is concerned. He will have to prove himself before being fully accepted in that clubhouse. How he handles this will determine if Luhnow screwed the pooch. Agree 100%. But to this point it is a PR nightmare. |
|
|
|
Post by m240 on Aug 5, 2018 18:57:11 GMT -6
It would be a lot of fun ripping this article to pieces and illustrating how this guy started with a conclusion and then inserted his beliefs. Then twisted things to be what he wanted them to be to make his point. Simple example and then I will stop, his issue with the second chance comment by Luhnow. 90% of the folks out there have already convicted the guy to the point where almost no one would even offer him a chance to work until his conviction if there ever is one. So he needed a second chance just to be allowed to present his case. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2018 19:46:39 GMT -6
It would be a lot of fun ripping this article to pieces and illustrating how this guy started with a conclusion and then inserted his beliefs. Then twisted things to be what he wanted them to be to make his point. Simple example and then I will stop, his issue with the second chance comment by Luhnow. 90% of the folks out there have already convicted the guy to the point where almost no one would even offer him a chance to work until his conviction if there ever is one. So he needed a second chance just to be allowed to present his case. I fully understand the concept journalistic "jading", but still...... give me an example in this article of an un-truth. Add the fact Osuna's attorney completely contradicted Astros management (remorse level) in his Friday Presser. Also remember the theme of this article is not as. much the guilt of Osuna, but the incompetence of the Astros during this acquistion. The unmitigated truth is that this has and may continue to be a PR disaster. I am big Luhnow fan, but this is likely his biggest mistake. Just look how much attention has been directed from the product on the field to this side show. |
|
|
|
Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Aug 5, 2018 20:01:16 GMT -6
It would be a lot of fun ripping this article to pieces and illustrating how this guy started with a conclusion and then inserted his beliefs. Then twisted things to be what he wanted them to be to make his point. Simple example and then I will stop, his issue with the second chance comment by Luhnow. 90% of the folks out there have already convicted the guy to the point where almost no one would even offer him a chance to work until his conviction if there ever is one. So he needed a second chance just to be allowed to present his case. Sounds like the article started with Catfish's conclusion, as well. |
|
|
|
Post by m240 on Aug 5, 2018 20:32:49 GMT -6
It would be a lot of fun ripping this article to pieces and illustrating how this guy started with a conclusion and then inserted his beliefs. Then twisted things to be what he wanted them to be to make his point. Simple example and then I will stop, his issue with the second chance comment by Luhnow. 90% of the folks out there have already convicted the guy to the point where almost no one would even offer him a chance to work until his conviction if there ever is one. So he needed a second chance just to be allowed to present his case. I fully understand the concept journalistic "jading", but still...... give me an example in this article of an un-truth. Add the fact Osuna's attorney completely contradicted Astros management (remorse level) in his Friday Presser. Also remember the theme of this article is not as. much the guilt of Osuna, but the incompetence of the Astros during this acquistion. The unmitigated truth is that this has and may continue to be a PR disaster. I am big Luhnow fan, but this is likely his biggest mistake. Just look how much attention has been directed from the product on the field to this side show. every great fabrication is based upon grains of truth. I gave you an example of how he took a position and then fabricated comments around it. Please go back and read the story again and think about how he used the second chance comments, then think about what I said. Then think of the whole story and break down each point in a similar fashion. This article was written to persuade you that given an allegation that is serious enough the mere fact that it is made should cause you to throw away any rights that the accused may have. To break it down completely would take hours unless you are familiar with it's origin and method of use. You are a smart guy though, think. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2018 22:13:42 GMT -6
I fully understand the concept journalistic "jading", but still...... give me an example in this article of an un-truth. Add the fact Osuna's attorney completely contradicted Astros management (remorse level) in his Friday Presser. Also remember the theme of this article is not as. much the guilt of Osuna, but the incompetence of the Astros during this acquistion. The unmitigated truth is that this has and may continue to be a PR disaster. I am big Luhnow fan, but this is likely his biggest mistake. Just look how much attention has been directed from the product on the field to this side show. every great fabrication is based upon grains of truth. I gave you an example of how he took a position and then fabricated comments around it. Please go back and read the story again and think about how he used the second chance comments, then think about what I said. Then think of the whole story and break down each point in a similar fashion. This article was written to persuade you that given an allegation that is serious enough the mere fact that it is made should cause you to throw away any rights that the accused may have. To break it down completely would take hours unless you are familiar with it's origin and method of use. You are a smart guy though, think. Again, I think you are missing the point that the article is not as much commentary on the merits of Osuna's guiltiness or degree of guiltiness versus what has become a PR nightmare for the Astros. As far as Osuna.... the courts will decide that. If that goes south, this situation becomes highly problematic. In fact if that scenario pans out, I'll venture he'll never pitch here. OTOH... In the court of public opinion the Astros, as a business, and an institution operates under a different set of guidelines. Before retirement, I had had plenty of corporate PR training to facilitate my dealings with the media and regulatory agencies. IMO... Luhnow in his role as public spokesman of this team has failed miserably on this issue. There is no way to paint that picture in any other way. Facts: 1. Luhnow states that team has zero tolerance policy toward domestic abuse. You may counter he has not been convicted, but OTOH there apparently was enough evidence for MLB to hand down a 75 game suspension.....PLUS the MLBPA opted not to defend Osuna via appeal. So why did we deal for him in the first place? 2. Friday's presser disaster. Luhnow, preaches second chances and remorse, while Osuna's attorney states his client is clean as the fresh driven snow. Huhhhhhh? 3. Additionally his statement basically used the PR retreat buzz word "engaged" with Houston Area Women’s Center, Texas Council on Family Violence, and National Network to End Domestic Violence. This basically a paraphrased mea culpa for damage control. 4. And poor A.J. apparently he was ambushed interviewed by an ESPN reporter yesterday, and gave about a 20 word statement that amounted to a shrug. I think you are a smart guy too. Try to understand the anatomy and dynamics of a PR ClusterF__ . Also think about how much this debacle has taken the focus off the sucess and welfare of the team. If Luhnow was smart, he would announce that Osuna is on Team suspension pending trial results. Then work from there. And finally.... I am probably one of the biggest Luhnow fans here. I waited 54 years for a WS winner... and he is one of the main reasons why. Best regards.... |
|
|
|
Post by batman007 on Aug 5, 2018 23:30:50 GMT -6
I feel like the only ones making this a bigger issue than it needs to be are the ones who are making it a bigger issue. I've almost paid zero attention to the entire thing, and the parts I have heard I just shrug and move on.
|
|
koolade2
Veteran
15K Thief
#WWG1WGA
Posts: 4,340
Likes: 505
|
Post by koolade2 on Aug 6, 2018 4:35:20 GMT -6
I feel like the only ones making this a bigger issue than it needs to be are the ones who are making it a bigger issue. I've almost paid zero attention to the entire thing, and the parts I have heard I just shrug and move on. I have to agree with Batman. I personally don't care what has happened out of baseball with a player. In most Sports a very high Percentage of the Players have records. Until the Courts decided he did a criminal offense enough to keep him out of baseball or sends him to prison. I could care less as it doesn't affect my life other than the Baseball Team I like isn't winning then it becomes a problem. Right now I am more concerned about the AAA offense that is being put on the Field. I have stated numerous times that there are always two sides to every situation and until we know all the facts including what has transpired before the event happened. Who in here is so Lily White can throw stones. If he truly just beat her up because of being drunk, then vilify him all you want. There are some truly evil men and women in the world and that character shows up in all of their dealings. |
|
|
|
Post by m240 on Aug 6, 2018 6:07:57 GMT -6
every great fabrication is based upon grains of truth. I gave you an example of how he took a position and then fabricated comments around it. Please go back and read the story again and think about how he used the second chance comments, then think about what I said. Then think of the whole story and break down each point in a similar fashion. This article was written to persuade you that given an allegation that is serious enough the mere fact that it is made should cause you to throw away any rights that the accused may have. To break it down completely would take hours unless you are familiar with it's origin and method of use. You are a smart guy though, think. Again, I think you are missing the point that the article is not as much commentary on the merits of Osuna's guiltiness or degree of guiltiness versus what has become a PR nightmare for the Astros. As far as Osuna.... the courts will decide that. If that goes south, this situation becomes highly problematic. In fact if that scenario pans out, I'll venture he'll never pitch here. OTOH... In the court of public opinion the Astros, as a business, and an institution operates under a different set of guidelines. Before retirement, I had had plenty of corporate PR training to facilitate my dealings with the media and regulatory agencies. IMO... Luhnow in his role as public spokesman of this team has failed miserably on this issue. There is no way to paint that picture in any other way. Facts: 1. Luhnow states that team has zero tolerance policy toward domestic abuse. You may counter he has not been convicted, but OTOH there apparently was enough evidence for MLB to hand down a 75 game suspension.....PLUS the MLBPA opted not to defend Osuna via appeal. So why did we deal for him in the first place? 2. Friday's presser disaster. Luhnow, preaches second chances and remorse, while Osuna's attorney states his client is clean as the fresh driven snow. Huhhhhhh? 3. Additionally his statement basically used the PR retreat buzz word "engaged" with Houston Area Women’s Center, Texas Council on Family Violence, and National Network to End Domestic Violence. This basically a paraphrased mea culpa for damage control. 4. And poor A.J. apparently he was ambushed interviewed by an ESPN reporter yesterday, and gave about a 20 word statement that amounted to a shrug. I think you are a smart guy too. Try to understand the anatomy and dynamics of a PR ClusterF__ . Also think about how much this debacle has taken the focus off the sucess and welfare of the team. If Luhnow was smart, he would announce that Osuna is on Team suspension pending trial results. Then work from there. And finally.... I am probably one of the biggest Luhnow fans here. I waited 54 years for a WS winner... and he is one of the main reasons why. Best regards.... My apologies, obviously I did not make my point clearly. My point is that the pr nightmare is not due to the actions of the Astros but due to the tactics of the media. No mater what the Astros say or do they will get slammed. To alter your actions or beliefs due to having to fade the heat for what you believe to be an appropriate action is cowardly. The Astros need to stay the course, tell the media that they have said all they intend to say and move on. If the media persists so do the Astros. Falling to generate a surrender the media will move on shortly in search of the next situation that can be twisted. PR nightmare over. |
|
|
|
Post by m240 on Aug 6, 2018 6:13:22 GMT -6
By the way I have had a lot of training in dealing with the media as well. Been on tv a few times. I know how hard it is to avoid a trap that someone spent hours setting up. Kind of a fun game if you let it become that.
|
|
|
|
Post by astrosdoug on Aug 6, 2018 6:36:16 GMT -6
I feel like the only ones making this a bigger issue than it needs to be are the ones who are making it a bigger issue. I've almost paid zero attention to the entire thing, and the parts I have heard I just shrug and move on. I feel the same way about this guy Lebron. I don't follow NBA basketball, have little idea who Lebron is, have even less desire to know who he is or what he stands for. Bregman tends to say silly stuff on Twitter and many of his views (and McHugh's) I find ridiculous, but when I look back on what I believed about politics and the world in general when I was 25 years old, well, I was pretty ridiculous then too. More than likely, Bregman's view of the world will mature with the passage of time. For now, I'm just glad to see him contributing to the Astros on the field, even if he has a silly haircut. |
|
|
|
Post by astrosdoug on Aug 6, 2018 6:51:10 GMT -6
Osuna's camp has said that the reason he didn't appeal the suspension was so that he could return to the field as soon as possible. That's because they feared MLB would impose a longer suspension if he dared to exercise his right to an appeal. I don't know if that fear had any basis in reality, i.e. would MLB really do such a thing? But then again we are talking about Manfred here so I wouldn't put it past him.
I haven't seen the police report and I don't know that any reporters have either. Maybe she brandished a weapon. Maybe he found her in bed (or "sexting") with another guy. There are lots of things that could be extenuating circumstances here and we
a) may never know the whole story' and
b) are only likely to know more details if/when this goes to trial. As some posters have stated, there's a good chance the charges get dropped, Osuna pays the gal some money without admitting guilt, and life goes on.
Luhnow said that what he learned in his conversation with Osuna was 'enlightening' and I took that to mean that it made him comfortable with the idea of having this player on the team. Luhnow has never struck me as a male chauvinist, a misogynist, etc. I would be surprised if Luhnow wasn't allowed to see the police report before making his decision.
In the end, there are several people who could be at fault here:
1) Osuna, if he really did beat the woman and it wasn't in self-defense.
2) The woman, if she used or threatened to use violence against Osuna to begin with.
3) The public/fans, for allowing the media to steer their thinking.
4) The media, for greedily seeking to make a scandal out of a situation where there might not really be one.
5) Luhnow, if he in fact hired a criminal with a high likelihood of repeating his offense, and knew that he was doing so.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2018 7:35:42 GMT -6
Again, I think you are missing the point that the article is not as much commentary on the merits of Osuna's guiltiness or degree of guiltiness versus what has become a PR nightmare for the Astros. As far as Osuna.... the courts will decide that. If that goes south, this situation becomes highly problematic. In fact if that scenario pans out, I'll venture he'll never pitch here. OTOH... In the court of public opinion the Astros, as a business, and an institution operates under a different set of guidelines. Before retirement, I had had plenty of corporate PR training to facilitate my dealings with the media and regulatory agencies. IMO... Luhnow in his role as public spokesman of this team has failed miserably on this issue. There is no way to paint that picture in any other way. Facts: 1. Luhnow states that team has zero tolerance policy toward domestic abuse. You may counter he has not been convicted, but OTOH there apparently was enough evidence for MLB to hand down a 75 game suspension.....PLUS the MLBPA opted not to defend Osuna via appeal. So why did we deal for him in the first place? 2. Friday's presser disaster. Luhnow, preaches second chances and remorse, while Osuna's attorney states his client is clean as the fresh driven snow. Huhhhhhh? 3. Additionally his statement basically used the PR retreat buzz word "engaged" with Houston Area Women’s Center, Texas Council on Family Violence, and National Network to End Domestic Violence. This basically a paraphrased mea culpa for damage control. 4. And poor A.J. apparently he was ambushed interviewed by an ESPN reporter yesterday, and gave about a 20 word statement that amounted to a shrug. I think you are a smart guy too. Try to understand the anatomy and dynamics of a PR ClusterF__ . Also think about how much this debacle has taken the focus off the sucess and welfare of the team. If Luhnow was smart, he would announce that Osuna is on Team suspension pending trial results. Then work from there. And finally.... I am probably one of the biggest Luhnow fans here. I waited 54 years for a WS winner... and he is one of the main reasons why. Best regards.... My apologies, obviously I did not make my point clearly. My point is that the pr nightmare is not due to the actions of the Astros but due to the tactics of the media. No mater what the Astros say or do they will get slammed. To alter your actions or beliefs due to having to fade the heat for what you believe to be an appropriate action is cowardly. The Astros need to stay the course, tell the media that they have said all they intend to say and move on. If the media persists so do the Astros. Falling to generate a surrender the media will move on shortly in search of the next situation that can be twisted. PR nightmare over. 100% in agreement with a good bit of what you said there. 90% of the media are sharks who relish in peoples misfortune. That is why the concept of "PR" has become ingrained in the lexicon of corporate speak. There is no "win" when dealing with the media, just varying levels of defeat Thusly, the intent of having a good PR program is to minimize that defeat. During one of my training refreshers, I cracked up the trainers by suggesting that my next press interview I would have a loud tape next to me playing Don Henley's "Dirty Laundry". Song rings so true. But I do stand by earlier comments that this was handled poorly from the outset. And that a internal suspension until trial would probably be in team's best interest. An "after further review" never hurts the narrative. Otherwise, the media is going to continue to focus on this Osuna sideshow like a festering infection, instead of 96% of the rest of the team.. In any case, it would be nice to rewind the clock a week if we could. |
|
|
|
Post by unionstation82 on Aug 6, 2018 7:59:48 GMT -6
I feel like the only ones making this a bigger issue than it needs to be are the ones who are making it a bigger issue. I've almost paid zero attention to the entire thing, and the parts I have heard I just shrug and move on. It perpetuates because new articles keep coming out. |
|
|
|
Post by astrosdoug on Aug 6, 2018 8:39:08 GMT -6
I feel like the only ones making this a bigger issue than it needs to be are the ones who are making it a bigger issue. I've almost paid zero attention to the entire thing, and the parts I have heard I just shrug and move on. It perpetuates because new articles keep coming out. and because idiots like Thomas believe what they read in the news. |
|
|
|
Post by m240 on Aug 6, 2018 8:45:30 GMT -6
My apologies, obviously I did not make my point clearly. My point is that the pr nightmare is not due to the actions of the Astros but due to the tactics of the media. No mater what the Astros say or do they will get slammed. To alter your actions or beliefs due to having to fade the heat for what you believe to be an appropriate action is cowardly. The Astros need to stay the course, tell the media that they have said all they intend to say and move on. If the media persists so do the Astros. Falling to generate a surrender the media will move on shortly in search of the next situation that can be twisted. PR nightmare over. 100% in agreement with a good bit of what you said there. 90% of the media are sharks who relish in peoples misfortune. That is why the concept of "PR" has become ingrained in the lexicon of corporate speak. There is no "win" when dealing with the media, just varying levels of defeat Thusly, the intent of having a good PR program is to minimize that defeat. During one of my training refreshers, I cracked up the trainers by suggesting that my next press interview I would have a loud tape next to me playing Don Henley's "Dirty Laundry". Song rings so true. But I do stand by earlier comments that this was handled poorly from the outset. And that a internal suspension until trial would probably be in team's best interest. An "after further review" never hurts the narrative. Otherwise, the media is going to continue to focus on this Osuna sideshow like a festering infection, instead of 96% of the rest of the team.. In any case, it would be nice to rewind the clock a week if we could. Unfortunately that ship has sailed on an internal suspension. Should of been done right up front with Osuna getting paid and most of the issue would be resolved with the media and fan base alike. They chose a course of action and now have to deal with it but they need to stay the course that has been chartered until events, not media warrant a change. |
|
|
|
Post by thomasj13 on Aug 6, 2018 9:20:26 GMT -6
It perpetuates because new articles keep coming out. and because idiots like Thomas believe what they read in the news. Ummm..when did I cite the news....I am pretty much anti-news...keep trying... |
|
|
|
Post by unionstation82 on Aug 6, 2018 9:25:13 GMT -6
It perpetuates because new articles keep coming out. and because idiots like Thomas believe what they read in the news. Whoa, what’s with the attack there? Thomas is pretty amiable compared to most here. |
|
|
|
Post by thomasj13 on Aug 6, 2018 9:26:30 GMT -6
and because idiots like Thomas believe what they read in the news. Whoa, what’s with the attack there? Thomas is pretty amiable compared to most here. Thanks, BFAM. |
|
|
|
Post by unionstation82 on Aug 6, 2018 9:28:10 GMT -6
Whoa, what’s with the attack there? Thomas is pretty amiable compared to most here. Thanks, BFAM. Yeah, I can’t remember you being mean to anyone. It seemed over the line. |
|
|
|
Post by thomasj13 on Aug 6, 2018 9:34:43 GMT -6
Yeah, I can’t remember you being mean to anyone. It seemed over the line. Me thinks, by his posting, he takes things way too seriously and is extreme on things...I would say on average he makes sensible, good posts, but you can clearly see he is a "Draw a Line in the Sand" type of guy... |
|
