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Ohtani
Sept 6, 2018 14:13:35 GMT -6
Post by Saint on Sept 6, 2018 14:13:35 GMT -6
He'll likely need Tommy John surgery, apparently.
I know the guy wants to pitch, but he is a heck of a hitter. He's potentially missing out on some ridiculous offensive performances if he has to sacrifice time to pitching and rehabbing from pitching-related injuries. If he didn't have to miss games due to pitching and prep, he'd be potentially looking at these numbers for a full year in his rookie season:
30+ HR 90+ RBI/Runs 10+ SB and percentages of: .287/.367/.579
Those are amazing rookie numbers (or non-rookie...). Remember he is only 23 years old too.
If I'm the FO in LA, I'm doing everything I can do to talk him into being a DH (or maybe a 1B....he's 6'4 after all).
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Ohtani
Sept 6, 2018 14:34:18 GMT -6
Post by blcoach8 on Sept 6, 2018 14:34:18 GMT -6
He'll likely need Tommy John surgery, apparently. I know the guy wants to pitch, but he is a heck of a hitter. He's potentially missing out on some ridiculous offensive performances if he has to sacrifice time to pitching and rehabbing from pitching-related injuries. If he didn't have to miss games due to pitching and prep, he'd be potentially looking at these numbers for a full year in his rookie season: 30+ HR 90+ RBI/Runs 10+ SB and percentages of: .287/.367/.579 Those are amazing rookie numbers (or non-rookie...). Remember he is only 23 years old too. If I'm the FO in LA, I'm doing everything I can do to talk him into being a DH (or maybe a 1B....he's 6'4 after all). He should give up pitching and concentrate on hitting. I am very old school in that I don't think the front office or the manager needs to ask a player what role he wants to assume with the tezm. The Angels should not "talk him into" anything. They are his employers and they have the right to determine what he will do as a member of the Angels. If they tell him he will be a 1B/DH, that should end it. If he doesn't like it, he can ask for a trade or play until the end of his contract and then sign with another team. All of this crap about players whining about the position they are asked to play or where they bat in the lineup is ridiculous. It is up to the manager to put the player in the defensive position and the spot in the batting order that he thinks is in the best interest of the team. The player needs to keep his mouth shut and do his best at whatever he is asked to do to benefit his team.
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Ohtani
Sept 6, 2018 14:42:41 GMT -6
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Post by Saint on Sept 6, 2018 14:42:41 GMT -6
I don't completely disagree, but sports are really more of a business partnership than a normal employer-employee relationship.
A bad reputation with players makes it hard to get the players you want, or get the kind of contracts you want. You can't mistreat them.
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Ohtani
Sept 6, 2018 14:52:00 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by unionstation82 on Sept 6, 2018 14:52:00 GMT -6
He’s a heck of a hitter against righties. He’s ended up being more sizzle than steak. That team is rudderless and needs to trade Trout for all that he’s worth.
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Ohtani
Sept 6, 2018 14:57:41 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by Saint on Sept 6, 2018 14:57:41 GMT -6
He’s a heck of a hitter against righties. He’s ended up being more sizzle than steak. That team is rudderless and needs to trade Trout for all that he’s worth. I don't know. He's got pretty impressive offensive numbers to just be sizzle.
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Ohtani
Sept 6, 2018 15:09:37 GMT -6
Post by blcoach8 on Sept 6, 2018 15:09:37 GMT -6
He’s a heck of a hitter against righties. He’s ended up being more sizzle than steak. That team is rudderless and needs to trade Trout for all that he’s worth. Unless things change, he could end up being the financial bust for the Angels that Darvish was for the Rangers. Japanese pitchers have a history of not being able to stand up under the workload expected of a major league pitcher. They get a lot more rest in Japan than they should in the majors.
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Ohtani
Sept 6, 2018 15:09:55 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by unionstation82 on Sept 6, 2018 15:09:55 GMT -6
He’s a heck of a hitter against righties. He’s ended up being more sizzle than steak. That team is rudderless and needs to trade Trout for all that he’s worth. I don't know. He's got pretty impressive offensive numbers to just be sizzle. When you factor in that he’s already injured, to me that’s a knock on durability in regards to pitching. Once he hits lefties better or at least shows more power against them, you can consider him a better offensive weapon. The hype machine was what ruined him ultimately.
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Ohtani
Sept 6, 2018 15:13:36 GMT -6
Post by blcoach8 on Sept 6, 2018 15:13:36 GMT -6
I don't completely disagree, but sports are really more of a business partnership than a normal employer-employee relationship. A bad reputation with players makes it hard to get the players you want, or get the kind of contracts you want. You can't mistreat them. part of the problem with many of today's players is that they think if you expect them to work harder than they want to you are mistreating them. I don't consider expecting multi-millionaire baseball players to play the position or bat in the batting order where the manager sees fit is mistreatment.
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Ohtani
Sept 6, 2018 15:28:27 GMT -6
Post by Saint on Sept 6, 2018 15:28:27 GMT -6
I don't know. He's got pretty impressive offensive numbers to just be sizzle. When you factor in that he’s already injured, to me that’s a knock on durability in regards to pitching. Once he hits lefties better or at least shows more power against them, you can consider him a better offensive weapon. The hype machine was what ruined him ultimately. Even with the injury, his half season offensive numbers are better than most full seasons.... Even if they only used him against righties he'd still get 100+ starts in as a hitter. You find a rookie with 18 HR 47 RBI 7/8 SB a .280+ AVG and .900+ OPS (not to mention 4-2 in 10 starts with a 3.31 ERA) as overly hyped? I'd say he completely lived up to expectations performance-wise even if you only got those numbers every year. It's basically half all-star caliber DH and 1/3 all-star caliber pitcher in one player being paid peanuts in comparison. The main knock on him will be if he can't get and stay healthy.
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Ohtani
Sept 6, 2018 15:30:42 GMT -6
Post by Saint on Sept 6, 2018 15:30:42 GMT -6
I don't completely disagree, but sports are really more of a business partnership than a normal employer-employee relationship. A bad reputation with players makes it hard to get the players you want, or get the kind of contracts you want. You can't mistreat them. part of the problem with many of today's players is that they think if you expect them to work harder than they want to you are mistreating them. I don't consider expecting multi-millionaire baseball players to play the position or bat in the batting order where the manager sees fit is mistreatment. Ohtani contract: That's the thing though, they aren't having to pay him much at all unless they decide to give him a big contract. Right now he's being paid Tyler White money. Player Mistreatment: I'm not saying they would view it as mistreatment necessarily (maybe the crybabies in the NFL), but if you, as ownership, gain a reputation of not working with the players, it'll be tough for you to attract FAs. Nobody wants to work for somebody they've seen treat their players improperly.
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Ohtani
Sept 6, 2018 15:31:00 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by unionstation82 on Sept 6, 2018 15:31:00 GMT -6
When you factor in that he’s already injured, to me that’s a knock on durability in regards to pitching. Once he hits lefties better or at least shows more power against them, you can consider him a better offensive weapon. The hype machine was what ruined him ultimately. Even with the injury, his half season offensive numbers are better than most full seasons.... Even if they only used him against righties he'd still get 100+ starts in as a hitter. You find a rookie with 18 HR 47 RBI 7/8 SB a .280+ AVG and .900+ OPS (not to mention 4-2 in 10 starts with a 3.31 ERA) as overly hyped? I'd say he completely lived up to expectations performance-wise even if you only got those numbers every year. It's basically half all-star caliber DH and 1/3 all-star caliber pitcher in one player being paid peanuts in comparison. The main knock on him will be if he can't get and stay healthy. For a rookie, his offense is great, but that’s not what he was marketed to be. He was supposed to be the Japanese Babe Ruth who would homer and then a couple days later pitch a QS with one earned run and strike out 10. He fulfilled one end of the bargain while the other dragged him down into TJS in only his first season.
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Ohtani
Sept 6, 2018 15:32:35 GMT -6
Post by Saint on Sept 6, 2018 15:32:35 GMT -6
Even with the injury, his half season offensive numbers are better than most full seasons.... Even if they only used him against righties he'd still get 100+ starts in as a hitter. You find a rookie with 18 HR 47 RBI 7/8 SB a .280+ AVG and .900+ OPS (not to mention 4-2 in 10 starts with a 3.31 ERA) as overly hyped? I'd say he completely lived up to expectations performance-wise even if you only got those numbers every year. It's basically half all-star caliber DH and 1/3 all-star caliber pitcher in one player being paid peanuts in comparison. The main knock on him will be if he can't get and stay healthy. For a rookie, his offense is great, but that’s not what he was marketed to be. He was supposed to be the Japanese Babe Ruth who would homer and then a couple days later throw a QS with one earned run and striking out 10. That's the Japanese hype. I don't think anybody here realistically thought he would manage that. If you asked the Angels, I'd be surprised if they didn't tell you they got a steal for his level of production.
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Ohtani
Sept 6, 2018 15:35:50 GMT -6
Post by Saint on Sept 6, 2018 15:35:50 GMT -6
To me, if it was feasible/possible, have him DH against righties and make spot starts and not hit when it's an opposing lefty.
You could benefit from his bat 100-110 games and then still get a 8-12 starts and give other pitchers a day off.
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marshall
Veteran
21st Century Luddite
Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood...
Posts: 4,358
Likes: 446
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Ohtani
Sept 6, 2018 16:19:51 GMT -6
Post by marshall on Sept 6, 2018 16:19:51 GMT -6
He'll likely need Tommy John surgery, apparently. I know the guy wants to pitch, but he is a heck of a hitter. He's potentially missing out on some ridiculous offensive performances if he has to sacrifice time to pitching and rehabbing from pitching-related injuries. If he didn't have to miss games due to pitching and prep, he'd be potentially looking at these numbers for a full year in his rookie season: 30+ HR 90+ RBI/Runs 10+ SB and percentages of: .287/.367/.579 Those are amazing rookie numbers (or non-rookie...). Remember he is only 23 years old too. If I'm the FO in LA, I'm doing everything I can do to talk him into being a DH (or maybe a 1B....he's 6'4 after all). .Oh my. He'd almost be as good as Bregman, but not quite.
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Ohtani
Sept 6, 2018 16:21:43 GMT -6
Post by Saint on Sept 6, 2018 16:21:43 GMT -6
He'll likely need Tommy John surgery, apparently. I know the guy wants to pitch, but he is a heck of a hitter. He's potentially missing out on some ridiculous offensive performances if he has to sacrifice time to pitching and rehabbing from pitching-related injuries. If he didn't have to miss games due to pitching and prep, he'd be potentially looking at these numbers for a full year in his rookie season: 30+ HR 90+ RBI/Runs 10+ SB and percentages of: .287/.367/.579 Those are amazing rookie numbers (or non-rookie...). Remember he is only 23 years old too. If I'm the FO in LA, I'm doing everything I can do to talk him into being a DH (or maybe a 1B....he's 6'4 after all). Oh my. He'd almost be as good as Bregman, but not quite. . I'm not sure the point you're trying to make.
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Ohtani
Sept 6, 2018 16:40:03 GMT -6
Post by blcoach8 on Sept 6, 2018 16:40:03 GMT -6
I'm not sure the point you're trying to make. I don't get it either. I have seen nothing to make me think Ohtani would be close to being as good as Bregman.
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marshall
Veteran
21st Century Luddite
Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood...
Posts: 4,358
Likes: 446
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Ohtani
Sept 6, 2018 18:10:49 GMT -6
Post by marshall on Sept 6, 2018 18:10:49 GMT -6
I'm not sure the point you're trying to make. I thought it was clear. Apparently not.
I was poking fun at the Ohtani Hype machine.
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Ohtani
Sept 6, 2018 18:38:56 GMT -6
Post by m240 on Sept 6, 2018 18:38:56 GMT -6
when Ohtani came over he was a free agent and could sign with any team that he wanted. During the interview process he specifically asked if he would be given the chance to be a two way player. The Angels and a few other teams agreed and then he chose the Angels. I am not sure if it is in his contract to be allowed to be a two way, if there are performance criteria or what but if the Angels go back on their word then they will play hell signing another free agent from Japan
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Ohtani
Sept 6, 2018 18:40:17 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by Saint on Sept 6, 2018 18:40:17 GMT -6
So nobody thinks a guy putting up his numbers in the MLB AND pitching really well is impressive?
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Ohtani
Sept 6, 2018 18:41:18 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by Saint on Sept 6, 2018 18:41:18 GMT -6
when Ohtani came over he was a free agent and could sign with any team that he wanted. During the interview process he specifically asked if he would be given the chance to be a two way player. The Angels and a few other teams agreed and then he chose the Angels. I am not sure if it is in his contract to be allowed to be a two way, if there are performance criteria or what but if the Angels go back on their word then they will play hell signing another free agent from Japan Right. That's what I was kind of getting at with Coach. It might not be in the contract but if it was an agreement I'm not sure it's a good idea to break it.
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Ohtani
Sept 6, 2018 18:46:43 GMT -6
Post by m240 on Sept 6, 2018 18:46:43 GMT -6
when Ohtani came over he was a free agent and could sign with any team that he wanted. During the interview process he specifically asked if he would be given the chance to be a two way player. The Angels and a few other teams agreed and then he chose the Angels. I am not sure if it is in his contract to be allowed to be a two way, if there are performance criteria or what but if the Angels go back on their word then they will play hell signing another free agent from Japan Right. That's what I was kind of getting at with Coach. It might not be in the contract but if it was an agreement I'm not sure it's a good idea to break it. the reason I spelled it out was because it did not seem as if everyone remembered the circumstances or if they did then it was not top of mind awareness.
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Ohtani
Sept 6, 2018 18:49:39 GMT -6
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Post by unionstation82 on Sept 6, 2018 18:49:39 GMT -6
So nobody thinks a guy putting up his numbers in the MLB AND pitching really well is impressive? It’s impressive. Being brittle like most overseas players is not.
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Ohtani
Sept 6, 2018 21:10:34 GMT -6
Post by batman007 on Sept 6, 2018 21:10:34 GMT -6
So nobody thinks a guy putting up his numbers in the MLB AND pitching really well is impressive? He's definitely overrated for sure.
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marshall
Veteran
21st Century Luddite
Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood...
Posts: 4,358
Likes: 446
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Ohtani
Sept 7, 2018 4:25:30 GMT -6
Post by marshall on Sept 7, 2018 4:25:30 GMT -6
Impressive, yes. The next Babe Ruth? No way.
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Ohtani
Sept 7, 2018 9:39:28 GMT -6
Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Sept 7, 2018 9:39:28 GMT -6
Wonder what Yuli thinks about him. Ha.
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Ohtani
Sept 7, 2018 13:00:21 GMT -6
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Post by unionstation82 on Sept 7, 2018 13:00:21 GMT -6
Impressive, yes. The next Babe Ruth? No way. There’s too much invested in players these days to have another Babe Ruth style workhorse. It’s just like how you haven’t seen a 60-minute player in football in decades.
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Ohtani
Sept 7, 2018 13:03:54 GMT -6
Post by bearbryant on Sept 7, 2018 13:03:54 GMT -6
you forgot the Texas State Armadillos
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Ohtani
Sept 7, 2018 15:53:21 GMT -6
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Post by unionstation82 on Sept 7, 2018 15:53:21 GMT -6
I liked their place kicker.
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Ohtani
Sept 7, 2018 16:31:14 GMT -6
Post by bearbryant on Sept 7, 2018 16:31:14 GMT -6
I like that two gumbas from Jersey became coaches of a Texas collegiate varsity football program
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Ohtani
Sept 7, 2018 16:41:10 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by unionstation82 on Sept 7, 2018 16:41:10 GMT -6
I like that two gumbas from Jersey became coaches of a Texas collegiate varsity football program Everyone wants to be Scott Bakula in that movie when they get older.
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