Ohtani

[Saint]

He'll likely need Tommy John surgery, apparently.

I know the guy wants to pitch, but he is a heck of a hitter.  He's potentially missing out on some ridiculous offensive performances if he has to sacrifice time to pitching and rehabbing from pitching-related injuries.  If he didn't have to miss games due to pitching and prep, he'd be potentially looking at these numbers for a full year in his rookie season:

30+ HR 90+ RBI/Runs 10+ SB and percentages of: .287/.367/.579

Those are amazing rookie numbers (or non-rookie...).  Remember he is only 23 years old too.

If I'm the FO in LA, I'm doing everything I can do to talk him into being a DH (or maybe a 1B....he's 6'4 after all).  

[blcoach8]

Sept 6, 2018 14:13:35 GMT -6 Saint said:

He'll likely need Tommy John surgery, apparently.

I know the guy wants to pitch, but he is a heck of a hitter.  He's potentially missing out on some ridiculous offensive performances if he has to sacrifice time to pitching and rehabbing from pitching-related injuries.  If he didn't have to miss games due to pitching and prep, he'd be potentially looking at these numbers for a full year in his rookie season:

30+ HR 90+ RBI/Runs 10+ SB and percentages of: .287/.367/.579

Those are amazing rookie numbers (or non-rookie...).  Remember he is only 23 years old too.

If I'm the FO in LA, I'm doing everything I can do to talk him into being a DH (or maybe a 1B....he's 6'4 after all).  

He should give up pitching and concentrate on hitting.  I am very old school in that I don't think the front office or the manager needs to ask a player what role he wants to assume with the tezm.  The Angels should not "talk him into" anything.  They are his employers and they have the right to determine what he will do as a member of the Angels.  If they tell him he will be a 1B/DH, that should end it. If he doesn't like it, he can ask for a trade or play until  the end of his contract and then sign with another team.  All of this crap about players whining about the position they are asked to play or where they bat in the lineup is ridiculous.  It is up to the manager to put the player in the defensive position and the spot in the batting order that he thinks is in the best interest of the team.  The player needs to keep his mouth shut and do his best at whatever he is asked to do to benefit his team.

[Saint]

I don't completely disagree, but sports are really more of a business partnership than a normal employer-employee relationship.

A bad reputation with players makes it hard to get the players you want, or get the kind of contracts you want. You can't mistreat them.

[unionstation82]

He’s a heck of a hitter against righties. He’s ended up being more sizzle than steak. That team is rudderless and needs to trade Trout for all that he’s worth.

[Saint]

Sept 6, 2018 14:52:00 GMT -6 unionstation82 said:

He’s a heck of a hitter against righties. He’s ended up being more sizzle than steak. That team is rudderless and needs to trade Trout for all that he’s worth.

I don't know. He's got pretty impressive offensive numbers to just be sizzle.

[blcoach8]

Sept 6, 2018 14:52:00 GMT -6 unionstation82 said:

He’s a heck of a hitter against righties. He’s ended up being more sizzle than steak. That team is rudderless and needs to trade Trout for all that he’s worth.

Unless things change, he could end up being the financial bust for the Angels that Darvish was for the Rangers.  Japanese pitchers have a history of not being able to stand up under the workload expected of a major league pitcher.  They get a lot more rest in Japan than they should in the majors.  

[unionstation82]

Sept 6, 2018 14:57:41 GMT -6 Saint said:

Sept 6, 2018 14:52:00 GMT -6 unionstation82 said:

He’s a heck of a hitter against righties. He’s ended up being more sizzle than steak. That team is rudderless and needs to trade Trout for all that he’s worth.

I don't know. He's got pretty impressive offensive numbers to just be sizzle.

When you factor in that he’s already injured, to me that’s a knock on durability in regards to pitching. Once he hits lefties better or at least shows more power against them, you can consider him a better offensive weapon.

The hype machine was what ruined him ultimately.

[blcoach8]

Sept 6, 2018 14:42:41 GMT -6 Saint said:

I don't completely disagree, but sports are really more of a business partnership than a normal employer-employee relationship.

A bad reputation with players makes it hard to get the players you want, or get the kind of contracts you want. You can't mistreat them.

part of the problem with many of today's players is that they think if you expect them to work harder than they want to you are mistreating them.  I don't consider expecting multi-millionaire baseball players to play the position or bat in the batting order where the manager sees fit is mistreatment.

[Saint]

Sept 6, 2018 15:09:55 GMT -6 unionstation82 said:

Sept 6, 2018 14:57:41 GMT -6 Saint said:

I don't know. He's got pretty impressive offensive numbers to just be sizzle.

When you factor in that he’s already injured, to me that’s a knock on durability in regards to pitching. Once he hits lefties better or at least shows more power against them, you can consider him a better offensive weapon.

The hype machine was what ruined him ultimately.

Even with the injury, his half season offensive numbers are better than most full seasons....  Even if they only used him against righties he'd still get 100+ starts in as a hitter.  

You find a rookie with 18 HR 47 RBI 7/8 SB a .280+ AVG and .900+ OPS (not to mention 4-2 in 10 starts with a 3.31 ERA) as overly hyped?  I'd say he completely lived up to expectations performance-wise even if you only got those numbers every year. It's basically half all-star caliber DH and 1/3 all-star caliber pitcher in one player being paid peanuts in comparison.  The main knock on him will be if he can't get and stay healthy.

[Saint]

Sept 6, 2018 15:13:36 GMT -6 blcoach8 said:

Sept 6, 2018 14:42:41 GMT -6 Saint said:

I don't completely disagree, but sports are really more of a business partnership than a normal employer-employee relationship.

A bad reputation with players makes it hard to get the players you want, or get the kind of contracts you want. You can't mistreat them.

part of the problem with many of today's players is that they think if you expect them to work harder than they want to you are mistreating them.  I don't consider expecting multi-millionaire baseball players to play the position or bat in the batting order where the manager sees fit is mistreatment.

Ohtani contract: That's the thing though, they aren't having to pay him much at all unless they decide to give him a big contract.  Right now he's being paid Tyler White money.

Player Mistreatment: I'm not saying they would view it as mistreatment necessarily (maybe the crybabies in the NFL), but if you, as ownership, gain a reputation of not working with the players, it'll be tough for you to attract FAs.  Nobody wants to work for somebody they've seen treat their players improperly. 

[unionstation82]

Sept 6, 2018 15:28:27 GMT -6 Saint said:

Sept 6, 2018 15:09:55 GMT -6 unionstation82 said:

When you factor in that he’s already injured, to me that’s a knock on durability in regards to pitching. Once he hits lefties better or at least shows more power against them, you can consider him a better offensive weapon.

The hype machine was what ruined him ultimately.

Even with the injury, his half season offensive numbers are better than most full seasons....  Even if they only used him against righties he'd still get 100+ starts in as a hitter.  

You find a rookie with 18 HR 47 RBI 7/8 SB a .280+ AVG and .900+ OPS (not to mention 4-2 in 10 starts with a 3.31 ERA) as overly hyped?  I'd say he completely lived up to expectations performance-wise even if you only got those numbers every year. It's basically half all-star caliber DH and 1/3 all-star caliber pitcher in one player being paid peanuts in comparison.  The main knock on him will be if he can't get and stay healthy.

For a rookie, his offense is great, but that’s not what he was marketed to be. He was supposed to be the Japanese Babe Ruth who would homer and then a couple days later pitch a QS with one earned run and strike out 10. He fulfilled one end of the bargain while the other dragged him down into TJS in only his first season.

[Saint]

Sept 6, 2018 15:31:00 GMT -6 unionstation82 said:

Sept 6, 2018 15:28:27 GMT -6 Saint said:

Even with the injury, his half season offensive numbers are better than most full seasons....  Even if they only used him against righties he'd still get 100+ starts in as a hitter.  

You find a rookie with 18 HR 47 RBI 7/8 SB a .280+ AVG and .900+ OPS (not to mention 4-2 in 10 starts with a 3.31 ERA) as overly hyped?  I'd say he completely lived up to expectations performance-wise even if you only got those numbers every year. It's basically half all-star caliber DH and 1/3 all-star caliber pitcher in one player being paid peanuts in comparison.  The main knock on him will be if he can't get and stay healthy.

For a rookie, his offense is great, but that’s not what he was marketed to be. He was supposed to be the Japanese Babe Ruth who would homer and then a couple days later throw a QS with one earned run and striking out 10.

That's the Japanese hype.  I don't think anybody here realistically thought he would manage that.  If you asked the Angels, I'd be surprised if they didn't tell you they got a steal for his level of production.

[Saint]

To me, if it was feasible/possible, have him DH against righties and make spot starts and not hit when it's an opposing lefty.

You could benefit from his bat 100-110 games and then still get a 8-12 starts and give other pitchers a day off.

[marshall]

Sept 6, 2018 14:13:35 GMT -6 Saint said:

He'll likely need Tommy John surgery, apparently.

I know the guy wants to pitch, but he is a heck of a hitter.  He's potentially missing out on some ridiculous offensive performances if he has to sacrifice time to pitching and rehabbing from pitching-related injuries.  If he didn't have to miss games due to pitching and prep, he'd be potentially looking at these numbers for a full year in his rookie season:

30+ HR 90+ RBI/Runs 10+ SB and percentages of: .287/.367/.579

Those are amazing rookie numbers (or non-rookie...).  Remember he is only 23 years old too.

If I'm the FO in LA, I'm doing everything I can do to talk him into being a DH (or maybe a 1B....he's 6'4 after all).  

.Oh my. He'd almost be as good as Bregman, but not quite.

[Saint]

Sept 6, 2018 16:19:51 GMT -6 marshall said:

Sept 6, 2018 14:13:35 GMT -6 Saint said:

He'll likely need Tommy John surgery, apparently.

I know the guy wants to pitch, but he is a heck of a hitter.  He's potentially missing out on some ridiculous offensive performances if he has to sacrifice time to pitching and rehabbing from pitching-related injuries.  If he didn't have to miss games due to pitching and prep, he'd be potentially looking at these numbers for a full year in his rookie season:

30+ HR 90+ RBI/Runs 10+ SB and percentages of: .287/.367/.579

Those are amazing rookie numbers (or non-rookie...).  Remember he is only 23 years old too.

If I'm the FO in LA, I'm doing everything I can do to talk him into being a DH (or maybe a 1B....he's 6'4 after all).  

Oh my. He'd almost be as good as Bregman, but not quite.

.

I'm not sure the point you're trying to make.

[blcoach8]

Sept 6, 2018 16:21:43 GMT -6 Saint said:

Sept 6, 2018 16:19:51 GMT -6 marshall said:

.

I'm not sure the point you're trying to make.

I don't get it either. I have seen nothing to make me think Ohtani would be close to being as good as Bregman.

[marshall]

Sept 6, 2018 16:21:43 GMT -6 Saint said:

Sept 6, 2018 16:19:51 GMT -6 marshall said:

.

I'm not sure the point you're trying to make.

I thought it was clear. Apparently not.

I was poking fun at the Ohtani Hype machine.

[m240]

when Ohtani came over he was a free agent and could sign with any team that he wanted.  During the interview process he specifically asked if he would be given the chance to be a two way player.  The Angels and a few other teams agreed and then he chose the Angels.  I am not sure if it is in his contract to be allowed to be a two way, if there are performance criteria or what but if the Angels go back on their word then they will play hell signing another free agent from Japan

[Saint]

So nobody thinks a guy putting up his numbers in the MLB AND pitching really well is impressive?

[Saint]

Sept 6, 2018 18:38:56 GMT -6 m240 said:

when Ohtani came over he was a free agent and could sign with any team that he wanted.  During the interview process he specifically asked if he would be given the chance to be a two way player.  The Angels and a few other teams agreed and then he chose the Angels.  I am not sure if it is in his contract to be allowed to be a two way, if there are performance criteria or what but if the Angels go back on their word then they will play hell signing another free agent from Japan

Right. That's what I was kind of getting at with Coach. It might not be in the contract but if it was an agreement I'm not sure it's a good idea to break it.

[m240]

Sept 6, 2018 18:41:18 GMT -6 Saint said:

Sept 6, 2018 18:38:56 GMT -6 m240 said:

when Ohtani came over he was a free agent and could sign with any team that he wanted.  During the interview process he specifically asked if he would be given the chance to be a two way player.  The Angels and a few other teams agreed and then he chose the Angels.  I am not sure if it is in his contract to be allowed to be a two way, if there are performance criteria or what but if the Angels go back on their word then they will play hell signing another free agent from Japan

Right. That's what I was kind of getting at with Coach. It might not be in the contract but if it was an agreement I'm not sure it's a good idea to break it.

the reason I spelled it out was because it did not seem as if everyone remembered the circumstances or if they did then it was not top of mind awareness.  

[unionstation82]

Sept 6, 2018 18:40:17 GMT -6 Saint said:

So nobody thinks a guy putting up his numbers in the MLB AND pitching really well is impressive?

It’s impressive. Being brittle like most overseas players is not.

[batman007]

Sept 6, 2018 18:40:17 GMT -6 Saint said:

So nobody thinks a guy putting up his numbers in the MLB AND pitching really well is impressive?

He's definitely overrated for sure.

[marshall]

Impressive, yes. The next Babe Ruth? No way.

[ɮօʀȶǟʐ]

Wonder what Yuli thinks about him. Ha.

[unionstation82]

Sept 7, 2018 4:25:30 GMT -6 marshall said:

Impressive, yes. The next Babe Ruth? No way.

There’s too much invested in players these days to have another Babe Ruth style workhorse. It’s just like how you haven’t seen a 60-minute player in football in decades.

[bearbryant]

you forgot the Texas State Armadillos

[unionstation82]

I liked their place kicker.

[bearbryant]

I like that two gumbas from Jersey became coaches of a Texas collegiate varsity football program

[unionstation82]

Sept 7, 2018 16:31:14 GMT -6 bearbryant said:

I like that two gumbas from Jersey became coaches of a Texas collegiate varsity football program

Everyone wants to be Scott Bakula in that movie when they get older.