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Post by Hunter McCormick on Jun 29, 2019 12:37:47 GMT -6
Fun fact: Both of the last two games with the Pirates were 'lost' by the second inning (if not sooner). I suppose Hinch could have pulled Valdez after one inning and maybe the game would have been won in extra innings (if the pen was lights-out). But unless he had pulled Peacock before he threw the first pitch, even just going to extras in that game wasn't in the cards, no matter what. Cite a few examples where Hinch left a starter in too long in the middle innings, turning a lead into a loss, and I might buy into your theory about him leaving starters in too long. But when a starter shits the bed in the first couple of innings, even the world's greatest manager can't fix that. I don't give a damn what you buy into. If the starters such as both Valdez and Peacock were getting hammered to the point we are 5-6 runs down after 2-3 innings, he should have been pulled. If you don't agree that is fine with me
They were both pulled after 3 innings, after giving up 6 runs. What games were you watching?  |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Jun 29, 2019 12:43:44 GMT -6
Fun fact: Both of the last two games with the Pirates were 'lost' by the second inning (if not sooner). I suppose Hinch could have pulled Valdez after one inning and maybe the game would have been won in extra innings (if the pen was lights-out). But unless he had pulled Peacock before he threw the first pitch, even just going to extras in that game wasn't in the cards, no matter what. Cite a few examples where Hinch left a starter in too long in the middle innings, turning a lead into a loss, and I might buy into your theory about him leaving starters in too long. But when a starter shits the bed in the first couple of innings, even the world's greatest manager can't fix that. I don't give a damn what you buy into. Why don't you f***ing learn how to have a conversation, you ridiculous old retard? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2019 13:09:34 GMT -6
Game has changed so much since I was a kid. Back in the '60's the game very centered on small ball. Bunt's, SB's, Hit and Run. Of course pitchers had more of the upper hand in those days. Those players who couldn't play within those guidelines, were usually jettisoned. Catfish, I don't know how long ago you were a kid but in 1968 the strikezone was much more generous than it is today. And yes, pitchers did have the upper hand. It was necessary to scratch out a run any way possible. League average was 3.42 runs per game. 50 years later it's 4.45 runs per game. That's huge.
Back in the day, 75 bunts in a season was league average. Last year, 27.y JIT... My baseball fanhood with the Astros goes back to about 1965. You are right about the strike zone. Also add the fact that you had "meaner" pitchers back then who wouldn't think twice about plunking you if you dug in too well. The Gibsons, Drysdales, Marichals, (and your team) Lolich, etc. truly thought they owned the inside half of the plate. I also had a theory that back in the day, that umps wore so much heavier gear, that the fatigue factor weighed on the call borderline pitches. I do miss the hard nose, all out hussle, no showboating style of the era. Baseaball certainly has suffered in the past 50 years. |
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Post by Saint on Jun 29, 2019 13:40:23 GMT -6
Catfish, I don't know how long ago you were a kid but in 1968 the strikezone was much more generous than it is today. And yes, pitchers did have the upper hand. It was necessary to scratch out a run any way possible. League average was 3.42 runs per game. 50 years later it's 4.45 runs per game. That's huge.
Back in the day, 75 bunts in a season was league average. Last year, 27.y JIT... My baseball fanhood with the Astros goes back to about 1965. You are right about the strike zone. Also add the fact that you had "meaner" pitchers back then who wouldn't think twice about plunking you if you dug in too well. The Gibsons, Drysdales, Marichals, (and your team) Lolich, etc. truly thought they owned the inside half of the plate. I also had a theory that back in the day, that umps wore so much heavier gear, that the fatigue factor weighed on the call borderline pitches. I do miss the hard nose, all out hussle, no showboating style of the era. Baseaball certainly has suffered in the past 50 years. Blame the lesser hustle and such on the economics of the game. There is so much money involved that injuries and fatigue make more of a difference these days, imo. The showboating is just part of the Dynamics in sports changing. With so much to entertain people, you need to keep doing more and more to attract and maintain attention. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Jun 29, 2019 14:03:10 GMT -6
I don't give a damn what you buy into. If the starters such as both Valdez and Peacock were getting hammered to the point we are 5-6 runs down after 2-3 innings, he should have been pulled. If you don't agree that is fine with me
They were both pulled after 3 innings, after giving up 6 runs. What games were you watching? I would never allow a starting pitcher to stay in a game long enough to get my team 6 runs behind. Sorry, if you can't grasp that.........Oh,l watched both games. |
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Post by Hunter McCormick on Jun 29, 2019 14:09:14 GMT -6
They were both pulled after 3 innings, after giving up 6 runs. What games were you watching? I would never allow a starting pitcher to stay in a game long enough to get my team 6 runs behind. Sorry, if you can't grasp that.........Oh,l watched both games. Okay, so when would YOU have pulled Valdez?
When would YOU have pulled Peacock?
Be specific. What would have been the last batter each of them would have faced?
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Post by blcoach8 on Jun 29, 2019 14:10:10 GMT -6
I don't give a damn what you buy into. Why don't you fecking learn how to have a conversation, you ridiculous old retard? Why don't you learn to not to take the Lord's name in vain when you post? I suppose you think the guy was trying to have a conversation. I didn't ask him to buy into anything. I posted an opinion....period. I don't care if ajnyone agrees....everyone has a right to an opinon. I don't appreciate being called a 'ridiculous old retard". You are capable of moderating without that. You chastise others for posts like that and then you do the same thing. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Jun 29, 2019 14:12:17 GMT -6
I would never allow a starting pitcher to stay in a game long enough to get my team 6 runs behind. Sorry, if you can't grasp that.........Oh,l watched both games. Okay, so when would YOU have pulled Valdez?
When would YOU have pulled Peacock?
Be specific. What would have been the last batter each of them would have faced?
You are not interested in having a discussion....your aim is to get an argument started. I posted my opinion. To be plain, I don't care what ypu think of it. |
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Post by Hunter McCormick on Jun 29, 2019 14:16:30 GMT -6
JIT... My baseball fanhood with the Astros goes back to about 1965. You are right about the strike zone. Also add the fact that you had "meaner" pitchers back then who wouldn't think twice about plunking you if you dug in too well. The Gibsons, Drysdales, Marichals, (and your team) Lolich, etc. truly thought they owned the inside half of the plate. I also had a theory that back in the day, that umps wore so much heavier gear, that the fatigue factor weighed on the call borderline pitches. I do miss the hard nose, all out hussle, no showboating style of the era. Baseaball certainly has suffered in the past 50 years. Yeah, there were some unwritten rules back in the day. You could dig in, but if you made it too obvious, that was like showing up the pitcher. It could get you plunked. Of course pitchers batted, so if you were out of line with your plunking, you got one aimed at your chin the next time you came to the plate. But all in all, there was more honor in the game. |
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Post by Hunter McCormick on Jun 29, 2019 14:17:54 GMT -6
Okay, so when would YOU have pulled Valdez?
When would YOU have pulled Peacock?
Be specific. What would have been the last batter each of them would have faced?
You are not interested in having a discussion....your aim is to get an argument started. I posted my opinion. To be plain, I don't care what ypu think of it.
Translation: You can't answer the question.  |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Jun 29, 2019 14:20:52 GMT -6
Why don't you fecking learn how to have a conversation, you ridiculous old retard? Why don't you learn to not to take the Lord's name in vain when you post? I suppose you think the guy was trying to have a conversation. I didn't ask him to buy into anything. I posted an opinion....period. I don't care if ajnyone agrees....everyone has a right to an opinon. I don't appreciate being called a 'ridiculous old retard". You are capable of moderating without that. You chastise others for posts like that and then you do the same thing. I wasn't moderating...I was "posting an opinion...period" that I think you're too dumb to have a normal, civil conversation with another person. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Jun 29, 2019 14:37:51 GMT -6
You are not interested in having a discussion....your aim is to get an argument started. I posted my opinion. To be plain, I don't care what ypu think of it.
Translation: You can't answer the question. NO. I won't waste posting an answer to a clown whose only goal is stir up a problem. If you are too stupid to figure out what I meant from my previous posts, tough shit. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Jun 29, 2019 14:42:08 GMT -6
Why don't you learn to not to take the Lord's name in vain when you post? I suppose you think the guy was trying to have a conversation. I didn't ask him to buy into anything. I posted an opinion....period. I don't care if ajnyone agrees....everyone has a right to an opinon. I don't appreciate being called a 'ridiculous old retard". You are capable of moderating without that. You chastise others for posts like that and then you do the same thing. I wasn't moderating...I was "posting an opinion...period" that I think you're too dumb to have a normal, civil conversation with another person. I have normal conversations with other members all the time. As I said, this Tiger fan is not interested in a discussion......he is interested in stirring things up and you seem to have bought into it. At times, you appear to be too dumb to post withot name calling. I thought you were sharp enough to see what his purpose was in his "questions". Apparently, I gave you too much credit. |
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Post by Saint on Jun 29, 2019 14:57:43 GMT -6
Why don't you fecking learn how to have a conversation, you ridiculous old retard? Why don't you learn to not to take the Lord's name in vain when you post? I suppose you think the guy was trying to have a conversation. I didn't ask him to buy into anything. I posted an opinion....period. I don't care if ajnyone agrees....everyone has a right to an opinon. I don't appreciate being called a 'ridiculous old retard". You are capable of moderating without that. You chastise others for posts like that and then you do the same thing. You literally insult everybody. Even players and their wives. |
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Post by batman007 on Jun 29, 2019 15:05:26 GMT -6
Coach, when someone posts their opinion, and you respond with, "I don't give a damn what you buy into", it's YOU who is looking for a fight. That signals that you aren't willing to have a conversation. Half of a conversation is listening to what the other side has to say. You're basically sticking your fingers in your ears screaming "I CAN'T HEAR YOU I CAN'T HEAR YOU!".
All you've been asked to do in this thread is rationalize your position, and you somehow construe that as an attack on you.
I hate to say this, but you're the Carlos Gomez of this forum.
It's ok, I know you don't give a damn what I think
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Post by blcoach8 on Jun 29, 2019 15:21:14 GMT -6
Why don't you learn to not to take the Lord's name in vain when you post? I suppose you think the guy was trying to have a conversation. I didn't ask him to buy into anything. I posted an opinion....period. I don't care if ajnyone agrees....everyone has a right to an opinon. I don't appreciate being called a 'ridiculous old retard". You are capable of moderating without that. You chastise others for posts like that and then you do the same thing. You literally insult everybody. Even players and their wives. You are insulted if I don't agree with you I state opinions....you are free to disagree and call them insults. If a player makes what I think is a bad play, I say so. I also give credit for good plays. I have never insulted a player's wife. Daniella is not Correa's wife...he shacks up with her and his "injures' are a result. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Jun 29, 2019 15:28:04 GMT -6
Coach, when someone posts their opinion, and you respond with, "I don't give a damn what you buy into", it's YOU who is looking for a fight. That signals that you aren't willing to have a conversation. Half of a conversation is listening to what the other side has to say. You're basically sticking your fingers in your ears screaming "I CAN'T HEAR YOU I CAN'T HEAR YOU!". All you've been asked to do in this thread is rationalize your position, and you somehow construe that as an attack on you. I hate to say this, but you're the Carlos Gomez of this forum. It's ok, I know you don't give a damn what I think"Carlos Gomez of this forum".  Just-in-Time was NOT trying to have a discussion......he was trying to agitate and start an argument. I went back and forth with him once before and {m not in the mood to waste time with the jackass a second time. If we didn't have Verlander, he would not be here. He is no Astros fan. |
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Post by Hunter McCormick on Jun 29, 2019 16:00:44 GMT -6
Coach, when someone posts their opinion, and you respond with, "I don't give a damn what you buy into", it's YOU who is looking for a fight. That signals that you aren't willing to have a conversation. Half of a conversation is listening to what the other side has to say. You're basically sticking your fingers in your ears screaming "I CAN'T HEAR YOU I CAN'T HEAR YOU!". All you've been asked to do in this thread is rationalize your position, and you somehow construe that as an attack on you. I hate to say this, but you're the Carlos Gomez of this forum. It's ok, I know you don't give a damn what I think"Carlos Gomez of this forum". Just-in-Time was NOT trying to have a discussion......he was trying to agitate and start an argument. I went back and forth with him once before and {m not in the mood to waste time with the jackass a second time. If we didn't have Verlander, he would not be here. He is no Astros fan. That's a weaksauce excuse. Calling me a jackass doth not butter any parsnips. You have no valid reason for blaming Hinch for using Valdez and Peacock the way he did. They shit the bed, early and hard. And you simply can't answer my question about when YOU would have taken them out because there is no sane answer anyone could possibly give that would be different than what Hinch did.
I'm not an Astros fan? What does that matter even if it was true other than to provide you with a lame attempt to divert attention from your massive failure in your attempt to cast aspersions on Hinch.
While I am a Verlander fan (and a George Springer fan), my home team IS the Tigers and I make no attempt to hide that. But I am cheering for the Astros in 155 of the 162 regular season games on their schedule this year.
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Post by batman007 on Jun 29, 2019 16:02:28 GMT -6
Ok Coach. You do you, then.
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Post by blcoach8 on Jun 29, 2019 17:21:08 GMT -6
"Carlos Gomez of this forum". Just-in-Time was NOT trying to have a discussion......he was trying to agitate and start an argument. I went back and forth with him once before and {m not in the mood to waste time with the jackass a second time. If we didn't have Verlander, he would not be here. He is no Astros fan. That's a weaksauce excuse. Calling me a jackass doth not butter any parsnips. You have no valid reason for blaming Hinch for using Valdez and Peacock the way he did. They shit the bed, early and hard. And you simply can't answer my question about when YOU would have taken them out because there is no sane answer anyone could possibly give that would be different than what Hinch did.
I'm not an Astros fan? What does that matter even if it was true other than to provide you with a lame attempt to divert attention from your massive failure in your attempt to cast aspersions on Hinch.
While I am a Verlander fan (and a George Springer fan), my home team IS the Tigers and I make no attempt to hide that. But I am cheering for the Astros in 155 of the 162 regular season games on their schedule this year.
Best post from you that I've seen. I thought I explained why I thought Valdez and Peacock should have been pulled earlier......Both of them were getting us down by so many runs that it would be almost impossible to recover. Neither had good pitch location and were getting hammered and showed no signs of getting on track. As soon as that was evident, I think they should have been pulled. That is as plain as I can explain it. |
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Post by Hunter McCormick on Jun 29, 2019 17:51:34 GMT -6
That's a weaksauce excuse. Calling me a jackass doth not butter any parsnips. You have no valid reason for blaming Hinch for using Valdez and Peacock the way he did. They shit the bed, early and hard. And you simply can't answer my question about when YOU would have taken them out because there is no sane answer anyone could possibly give that would be different than what Hinch did. I'm not an Astros fan? What does that matter even if it was true other than to provide you with a lame attempt to divert attention from your massive failure in your attempt to cast aspersions on Hinch. While I am a Verlander fan (and a George Springer fan), my home team IS the Tigers and I make no attempt to hide that. But I am cheering for the Astros in 155 of the 162 regular season games on their schedule this year.
Best post from you that I've seen. I thought I explained why I thought Valdez and Peacock should have been pulled earlier......Both of them were getting us down by so many runs that it would be almost impossible to recover. Neither had good pitch location and were getting hammered and showed no signs of getting on track. As soon as that was evident, I think they should have been pulled. That is as plain as I can explain it. My point is: I don't see a logical point in the game where either should have been pulled any earlier than Hinch did. Here's the box score for Valdez's game: www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/HOU/HOU201906260.shtmlHe gave up two runs in each of his three innings. When do you come to the mound with the hook? After the first inning and try to piece together the next 8 with relievers? That seems like a bad plan. After two innings? Here's the box score for Peacock's game: www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/HOU/HOU201906270.shtmlHe coughed up four runs in the first inning alone. When do you pull the plug on that? Those losses fall squarely on the pitchers and the absence of any offense. Unless you can say how you would have managed both of them differently, I think the only thing you can do is give Hinch a pass on those. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Jun 29, 2019 18:08:23 GMT -6
Hinch can’t be blamed for his starting pitchers blowing games early, but he can be blamed for the inactive baserunning that allows the double plays to pile up.
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Post by Hunter McCormick on Jun 29, 2019 18:24:14 GMT -6
Hinch can’t be blamed for his starting pitchers blowing games early, but he can be blamed for the inactive baserunning that allows the double plays to pile up. Since the Astros have the second most GDPs in baseball, you have a defensible point so I'll just turn this over to Earl Weaver. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Jun 29, 2019 18:34:21 GMT -6
Hinch can’t be blamed for his starting pitchers blowing games early, but he can be blamed for the inactive baserunning that allows the double plays to pile up. Since the Astros have the second most GDPs in baseball, you have a defensible point so I'll just turn this over to Earl Weaver. Earl picked a bad day to quit smoking. |
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Post by Saint on Jun 29, 2019 18:48:51 GMT -6
You literally insult everybody. Even players and their wives. You are insulted if I don't agree with you I state opinions....you are free to disagree and call them insults. If a player makes what I think is a bad play, I say so. I also give credit for good plays. I have never insulted a player's wife. Daniella is not Correa's wife...he shacks up with her and his "injures' are a result. Oh excuse me. Players' fiances. None of your insults have anything to do with you agreeing or disagreeing with people. You're just an old asshole. Which is fine. Be who you want to be. Just don't pretend you aren't an old asshole. |
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Post by Hunter McCormick on Jun 29, 2019 18:55:40 GMT -6
Earl picked a bad day to quit smoking. Earl seemed like he tried (unsuccessfully) to quit smoking just about every day of the season. We love to hate umpires and you won't often hear one get much respect, but Bill Haller was one of the few who could take Earl in stride and not get ruffled. So I tip my cap to Bill. |
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Post by thomasj13 on Jun 29, 2019 19:32:26 GMT -6
Earl picked a bad day to quit smoking. Earl seemed like he tried (unsuccessfully) to quit smoking just about every day of the season. We love to hate umpires and you won't often hear one get much respect, but Bill Haller was one of the few who could take Earl in stride and not get ruffled. So I tip my cap to Bill. FTR - I like you as a poster....I am glad you post here.... |
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Post by Hunter McCormick on Jun 29, 2019 20:06:06 GMT -6
Earl seemed like he tried (unsuccessfully) to quit smoking just about every day of the season. We love to hate umpires and you won't often hear one get much respect, but Bill Haller was one of the few who could take Earl in stride and not get ruffled. So I tip my cap to Bill. FTR - I like you as a poster....I am glad you post here....  |
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Post by unionstation82 on Jun 29, 2019 20:10:09 GMT -6
Earl picked a bad day to quit smoking. Earl seemed like he tried (unsuccessfully) to quit smoking just about every day of the season. We love to hate umpires and you won't often hear one get much respect, but Bill Haller was one of the few who could take Earl in stride and not get ruffled. So I tip my cap to Bill. Earl could never beat his comeback about “f—kin up World Series”. |
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Post by Hunter McCormick on Jun 29, 2019 20:31:02 GMT -6
Earl seemed like he tried (unsuccessfully) to quit smoking just about every day of the season. We love to hate umpires and you won't often hear one get much respect, but Bill Haller was one of the few who could take Earl in stride and not get ruffled. So I tip my cap to Bill. Earl could never beat his comeback about “f—kin up World Series”. September 17, 1980
I don't think any fan on either side even bothered to look at the tapes to see if Mike Flanagan balked or not. But the unofficial tapes of the tirade live in infamy.
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