marshall
Veteran
21st Century Luddite
Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood...
Posts: 4,358 
Likes: 446
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Post by marshall on Aug 16, 2019 5:36:57 GMT -6
I'll try to break up the losing streak by starting the thread today. Of course having Verlander on the mound tonight should help too.
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Post by Saint on Aug 16, 2019 8:45:41 GMT -6
Be a stopper, JV.
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Post by unionstation82 on Aug 16, 2019 9:07:59 GMT -6
I want Verlander to pitch a complete game because my faith in this vaunted bullpen has been shaken.
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Aug 16, 2019 9:21:56 GMT -6
Our bullpen (especially Devo lately) and the inexplicable love they receive from talking heads is one of the reasons I'm wary of the "new" metrics. All you hear is how great they are at this oddball stat or that oddball stat, while in real life Devo is getting arthritis in his neck from watching all those bombs flying over the wall.
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Post by Saint on Aug 16, 2019 9:49:00 GMT -6
The thing to remember is that all teams have bullpens that give up runs and blow games. There are no perfect bullpens.
The bottom line is that our starters haven't done enough over the last several games. Outside of the Greinke start (which was only 6 innings) we haven't had a good start by a starter since the 23-2 blowout, and that was only 5 innings by Sanchez. Our bullpen has thrown 26 innings over the last 6 days. That comes out to about to half of each game. I don't know of another bullpen in baseball that could take on that sudden amount of innings (including an emergency bullpen day on a doubleheader) without showing some cracks.
We need JV to put in a good start today, and the offense to go off again.
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Post by unionstation82 on Aug 16, 2019 9:52:37 GMT -6
The thing to remember is that all teams have bullpens that give up runs and blow games. There are no perfect bullpens. The bottom line is that our starters haven't done enough over the last several games. Outside of the Greinke start (which was only 6 innings) we haven't had a good start by a starter since the 23-2 blowout, and that was only 5 innings by Sanchez. Our bullpen has thrown 26 innings over the last 6 days. That comes out to about to half of each game. I don't know of another bullpen in baseball that could take on that sudden amount of innings (including an emergency bullpen day on a doubleheader) without showing some cracks. We need JV to put in a good start today, and the offense to go off again. Sure, the starters have been hot garbage, but the offense has routinely bailed them out and given leads to the relievers, which are then promptly squandered. That is the reason why people jeer at the bullpen. The recent 1-4 stretch could easily have been 4-1. |
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Post by Saint on Aug 16, 2019 10:01:45 GMT -6
The thing to remember is that all teams have bullpens that give up runs and blow games. There are no perfect bullpens. The bottom line is that our starters haven't done enough over the last several games. Outside of the Greinke start (which was only 6 innings) we haven't had a good start by a starter since the 23-2 blowout, and that was only 5 innings by Sanchez. Our bullpen has thrown 26 innings over the last 6 days. That comes out to about to half of each game. I don't know of another bullpen in baseball that could take on that sudden amount of innings (including an emergency bullpen day on a doubleheader) without showing some cracks. We need JV to put in a good start today, and the offense to go off again. Sure, the starters have been hot garbage, but the offense has routinely bailed them out and given leads to the relievers, which are then promptly squandered. That is the reason why people jeer at the bullpen. The recent 1-4 stretch could easily have been 4-1. Right, but you can't expect any bullpen in baseball to pitch half of the games without giving up runs. Over that 1-4 stretch you mention: Bullpen: 22 IP 15 Runs Starters: 19.2 IP 19 Runs The bullpen hasn't been great, but the starters (consisting of 4 the top-10 pitchers in baseball) have dropped the ball. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Aug 16, 2019 10:08:35 GMT -6
The thing to remember is that all teams have bullpens that give up runs and blow games. There are no perfect bullpens. Yeah, but those Bullpens aren't being tauted as some fantastic group of relievers like ours are (while still trying to massage the crick out of their neck) |
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Post by unionstation82 on Aug 16, 2019 10:10:22 GMT -6
Sure, the starters have been hot garbage, but the offense has routinely bailed them out and given leads to the relievers, which are then promptly squandered. That is the reason why people jeer at the bullpen. The recent 1-4 stretch could easily have been 4-1. Right, but you can't expect any bullpen in baseball to pitch half of the games without giving up runs. Over that 1-4 stretch you mention: Bullpen: 22 IP 15 Runs Starters: 19.2 IP 19 Runs The bullpen hasn't been great, but the starters (consisting of 4 the top-10 pitchers in baseball) have dropped the ball. How many of those runs were earned? |
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Post by Saint on Aug 16, 2019 10:11:06 GMT -6
The thing to remember is that all teams have bullpens that give up runs and blow games. There are no perfect bullpens. Yeah, but those Bullpens aren't being tauted as some fantastic group of relievers like ours are (while still trying to massage the crick out of their neck) I haven't heard our relievers being talked about that way. Most people seem to agree that they're our biggest area of concern. Our starters, on the other hand, are being handed all the CYs despite not being good the last week and a half or so. Even Greinke's 6 IP with 2 ER was kind of "meh". |
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Post by Saint on Aug 16, 2019 10:11:48 GMT -6
Right, but you can't expect any bullpen in baseball to pitch half of the games without giving up runs. Over that 1-4 stretch you mention: Bullpen: 22 IP 15 Runs Starters: 19.2 IP 19 Runs The bullpen hasn't been great, but the starters (consisting of 4 the top-10 pitchers in baseball) have dropped the ball. How many of those runs were earned? I think 13 for the bullpen and 15 for the starters. I'm not counting stuff again. |
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Post by thomasj13 on Aug 16, 2019 10:13:07 GMT -6
How many of those runs were earned? I think 13 for the bullpen and 15 for the starters. I'm not counting stuff again. Lazy Alief Graduate. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Aug 16, 2019 10:15:11 GMT -6
How many of those runs were earned? I think 13 for the bullpen and 15 for the starters. I'm not counting stuff again. Verlander pitched once during that stretch and was mediocre. Greinke got a win. The defense contributed to Miley’s suckage. The relievers outside of Rondón and maybe Harris (still contributed to the homers) blew three of those four losses. |
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Post by Saint on Aug 16, 2019 10:21:10 GMT -6
I think 13 for the bullpen and 15 for the starters. I'm not counting stuff again. Verlander pitched once during that stretch and was mediocre. Greinke got a win. The defense contributed to Miley’s suckage. The relievers outside of Rondón and maybe Harris (still contributed to the homers) blew three of those four losses. 5 innings and 4 ER is not "mediocre", in my opinion. That's a poor start, especially for a $30 million a season starter. Greinke did okay (and we won that game with the bullpen throwing 3 scoreless innings). The defense contributed but Miley was also bad and couldn't make it out of the 4th. One of those losses was a complete game by the bullpen that only gave up 2 ER. I'm not saying the bullpen has been good, but the starters have been worse in that stretch and don't deserve a free pass. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Aug 16, 2019 10:29:39 GMT -6
Yeah, but those Bullpens aren't being tauted as some fantastic group of relievers like ours are (while still trying to massage the crick out of their neck) I haven't heard our relievers being talked about that way. Most people seem to agree that they're our biggest area of concern. Well, now that is a surprise because all I ever hear on MLB radio is how awesome the Houston bp is. |
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Post by Saint on Aug 16, 2019 10:30:37 GMT -6
I haven't heard our relievers being talked about that way. Most people seem to agree that they're our biggest area of concern. Well, now that is a surprise because all I ever hear on MLB radio is how awesome the Houston bp is. I haven't compared, but maybe most bullpens are even worse then? |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Aug 16, 2019 10:31:40 GMT -6
So, less shitty is what you're saying
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Post by Saint on Aug 16, 2019 10:33:29 GMT -6
Essentially.
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Post by abregmanfan on Aug 16, 2019 10:52:24 GMT -6
I am worried about a Olson and Champman going yard. If JV can keep the ball in the park we will be just fine.  |
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Post by bearbryant on Aug 16, 2019 10:54:40 GMT -6
over the last 30 days .. Astros bullpen is
7th in ERA
8th in holds
1st in WHIP
22nd in HR/9
3rd in K/9
3rd in BB/9
20th in WAR
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Post by bearbryant on Aug 16, 2019 10:55:55 GMT -6
allowing too many HRs
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Post by Saint on Aug 16, 2019 10:56:17 GMT -6
Well he's only given up 1 HR in his last 4 starts so he has been doing better.
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Post by unionstation82 on Aug 16, 2019 11:05:12 GMT -6
Verlander pitched once during that stretch and was mediocre. Greinke got a win. The defense contributed to Miley’s suckage. The relievers outside of Rondón and maybe Harris (still contributed to the homers) blew three of those four losses. 5 innings and 4 ER is not "mediocre", in my opinion. That's a poor start, especially for a $30 million a season starter. Greinke did okay (and we won that game with the bullpen throwing 3 scoreless innings). The defense contributed but Miley was also bad and couldn't make it out of the 4th. One of those losses was a complete game by the bullpen that only gave up 2 ER. I'm not saying the bullpen has been good, but the starters have been worse in that stretch and don't deserve a free pass. I think it’s horrible for him but mediocre for most pitchers. It was also a winnable game until Osuna had dementia that day. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Aug 16, 2019 11:06:03 GMT -6
Man, that new banner image I stole off the internet looks bad ass on the top of our Refugee Camp.
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Post by Saint on Aug 16, 2019 11:15:00 GMT -6
5 innings and 4 ER is not "mediocre", in my opinion. That's a poor start, especially for a $30 million a season starter. Greinke did okay (and we won that game with the bullpen throwing 3 scoreless innings). The defense contributed but Miley was also bad and couldn't make it out of the 4th. One of those losses was a complete game by the bullpen that only gave up 2 ER. I'm not saying the bullpen has been good, but the starters have been worse in that stretch and don't deserve a free pass. I think it’s horrible for him but mediocre for most pitchers. It was also a winnable game until Osuna had dementia that day. That would be the equivalent of 7 ERs in a 9 inning game. That's horrible for anybody. |
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Post by bearbryant on Aug 16, 2019 11:27:59 GMT -6
over the last 14 days .. pretty much the same
4th in ERA
8th in holds
2nd in WHIP
18th in HR/9
4th in K/9
8th in BB/9
18th in WAR
more walks and errors
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2019 11:30:21 GMT -6
Man, that new banner image I stole off the internet looks bad ass on the top of our Refugee Camp. Rather than shamelessly borrowed? Nice visual. I like the 3 Aces theme, but it was taking up too much screen area. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Aug 16, 2019 11:31:50 GMT -6
Man, that new banner image I stole off the internet looks bad ass on the top of our Refugee Camp. Rather than shamelessly borrowed? Nice visual. I like the 3 Aces theme, but it was taking up too much screen area. Tactically appropriated. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Aug 16, 2019 11:41:41 GMT -6
I think it’s horrible for him but mediocre for most pitchers. It was also a winnable game until Osuna had dementia that day. That would be the equivalent of 7 ERs in a 9 inning game. That's horrible for anybody. Or 27 runs in 9 innings for Osuna. But it wasn’t. |
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Post by Saint on Aug 16, 2019 11:44:19 GMT -6
That would be the equivalent of 7 ERs in a 9 inning game. That's horrible for anybody. Or 27 runs in 9 innings for Osuna. But it wasn’t. Saying the bullpen has been bad doesn't change the fact that the starters have also been bad, if not worse. |
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