|
|
Post by blcoach8 on Feb 8, 2020 0:13:22 GMT -6
So it wasn't "player-driven" after all. It was player-expanded. This is what is concerning. This whole FO has had a streak of poor choices and weak morals. Very disappointing. I don’t know how more fans aren’t thoroughly disappointed by this as evidenced by Catfish leaving this forum and offing himself the way he did. I hope Catfish returns.....he added a lot to this forum. |
|
|
|
Post by olpapa on Feb 8, 2020 10:12:25 GMT -6
The biggest joke of all is that Kevin Goldstein is still employed by the Astros. How can they try to “clean up their act” when they’ve got the same fool who urged scouts to cheat still on their payroll? Precisely. I’m thinking the COB punished the two men ultimately responsible for putting an end to these activities...., the man in charge of the FO and the man in charge of the dugout...., and left it to Crane to deal with Goldstein and the rest. The Goldstein email that was released shows that he was clearly involved in developing the codebreaker program. As long as he remains on the payroll, you have to question the extent of Crane’s desire to clean the mess up and create a respectable organization. |
|
|
|
Post by blcoach8 on Feb 8, 2020 10:53:48 GMT -6
The biggest joke of all is that Kevin Goldstein is still employed by the Astros. How can they try to “clean up their act” when they’ve got the same fool who urged scouts to cheat still on their payroll? Precisely. I’m thinking the COB punished the two men ultimately responsible for putting an end to these activities...., the man in charge of the FO and the man in charge of the dugout...., and left it to Crane to deal with Goldstein and the rest. The Goldstein email that was released shows that he was clearly involved in developing the codebreaker program. As long as he remains on the payroll, you have to question the extent of Crane’s desire to clean the mess up and create a respectable organization. Crane deciding to demote Reid Ryan should tell us that Crane knew there were problems in the front office and didn't want Reid to stick around to talk about it. Gives credence to Crane covering up crap that was going on in the FO. |
|
|
|
Post by unionstation82 on Feb 8, 2020 11:40:00 GMT -6
The biggest joke of all is that Kevin Goldstein is still employed by the Astros. How can they try to “clean up their act” when they’ve got the same fool who urged scouts to cheat still on their payroll? Precisely. I’m thinking the COB punished the two men ultimately responsible for putting an end to these activities...., the man in charge of the FO and the man in charge of the dugout...., and left it to Crane to deal with Goldstein and the rest. The Goldstein email that was released shows that he was clearly involved in developing the codebreaker program. As long as he remains on the payroll, you have to question the extent of Crane’s desire to clean the mess up and create a respectable organization. I have lost my trust in Crane, and I have more respect for Hinch even though he was guilty. |
|
|
|
Post by blcoach8 on Feb 8, 2020 12:33:01 GMT -6
Precisely. I’m thinking the COB punished the two men ultimately responsible for putting an end to these activities...., the man in charge of the FO and the man in charge of the dugout...., and left it to Crane to deal with Goldstein and the rest. The Goldstein email that was released shows that he was clearly involved in developing the codebreaker program. As long as he remains on the payroll, you have to question the extent of Crane’s desire to clean the mess up and create a respectable organization. I have lost my trust in Crane, and I have more respect for Hinch even though he was guilty. hinch earned some of my respect back with how he handled that interview. Crane lost even more of it after i read where they are having "Pride Night" at MMP. Baseball games are supposed to be family oriented and not a stage for homosexuals to call attention to themselves. What they do in private is no concern of mine but I think it is in poor taste for the Astros to give them a night to celebrate. |
|
marshall
Veteran
21st Century Luddite
Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood...
Posts: 4,358 
Likes: 446
|
Post by marshall on Feb 8, 2020 13:26:13 GMT -6
I have lost my trust in Crane, and I have more respect for Hinch even though he was guilty. hinch earned some of my respect back with how he handled that interview. Crane lost even more of it after i read where they are having "Pride Night" at MMP. Baseball games are supposed to be family oriented and not a stage for homosexuals to call attention to themselves. What they do in private is no concern of mine but I think it is in poor taste for the Astros to give them a night to celebrate. You may be right about Crane. It is also possible he has left that job to Click to give him gravitas as a new Manager.
I'm with you on the celebration of evil choices, even if it's not popular to call it what it is.
|
|
|
|
Post by olpapa on Feb 8, 2020 13:54:15 GMT -6
Straight people should not show up at MMP on “pride” (proud to be a pervert) night.
|
|
|
|
Post by blcoach8 on Feb 8, 2020 14:17:21 GMT -6
Straight people should not show up at MMP on “pride” (proud to be a pervert) night. Watch it olpapa....somebody may accuse you of wearing a hood and a sheet.  I agree..........straight people should stay home that night and let the perverts have their party. Maybe Crane will provide free food and drinks to celebrate. |
|
|
|
Post by unionstation82 on Feb 8, 2020 15:51:32 GMT -6
Precisely. I’m thinking the COB punished the two men ultimately responsible for putting an end to these activities...., the man in charge of the FO and the man in charge of the dugout...., and left it to Crane to deal with Goldstein and the rest. The Goldstein email that was released shows that he was clearly involved in developing the codebreaker program. As long as he remains on the payroll, you have to question the extent of Crane’s desire to clean the mess up and create a respectable organization. Crane deciding to demote Reid Ryan should tell us that Crane knew there were problems in the front office and didn't want Reid to stick around to talk about it. Gives credence to Crane covering up crap that was going on in the FO. Things are bad enough to warrant his removal as owner. If they wanted to “purge” the toxic atmosphere by terminating Hinch and Luhnow, I don’t see why Crane is above reproach. |
|
|
|
Post by blcoach8 on Feb 8, 2020 15:57:24 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Feb 8, 2020 16:13:34 GMT -6
Crane deciding to demote Reid Ryan should tell us that Crane knew there were problems in the front office and didn't want Reid to stick around to talk about it. Gives credence to Crane covering up crap that was going on in the FO. Things are bad enough to warrant his removal as owner. If they wanted to “purge” the toxic atmosphere by terminating Hinch and Luhnow, I don’t see why Crane is above reproach. What has changed in the last week that took you from "Crane probably didn't know..." to "warrant his removal as owner..."? |
|
|
|
Post by unionstation82 on Feb 8, 2020 18:09:56 GMT -6
Things are bad enough to warrant his removal as owner. If they wanted to “purge” the toxic atmosphere by terminating Hinch and Luhnow, I don’t see why Crane is above reproach. What has changed in the last week that took you from "Crane probably didn't know..." to "warrant his removal as owner..."? This “Codebreaker” news which made the scandal look more like a top-down scheme than player-driven. Saint actually believed more in Crane’s innocence. |
|
|
|
Post by unionstation82 on Feb 8, 2020 18:10:51 GMT -6
He also said he didn’t believe in any live feeds transmitted under the dugout so it’s a mixed bag of a story. |
|
|
|
Post by blcoach8 on Feb 8, 2020 20:04:07 GMT -6
He also said he didn’t believe in any live feeds transmitted under the dugout so it’s a mixed bag of a story. There will be so many stories coming out now that most of it will be bullshit. |
|
|
|
Post by Saint on Feb 9, 2020 9:56:13 GMT -6
I still stick by my belief that I'm not sure Crane had to know what was going on. This sounds like something that was created by the analytics department which was led by Luhnow. This makes Luhnow look worse. If he knew about this program, I can't believe he didn't know how it was being used.
On the plus side, I feel slightly better about the players. (Only slightly.) It was not "player-driven". This was coming down from high up and they ran with it. Not that it matters anymore. The only thing that fixes this is another championship soon.
|
|
|
|
Post by blcoach8 on Feb 9, 2020 10:58:21 GMT -6
I still stick by my belief that I'm not sure Crane had to know what was going on. This sounds like something that was created by the analytics department which was led by Luhnow. This makes Luhnow look worse. If he knew about this program, I can't believe he didn't know how it was being used. On the plus side, I feel slightly better about the players. (Only slightly.) It was not "player-driven". This was coming down from high up and they ran with it. Not that it matters anymore. The only thing that fixes this is another championship soon. Winning has a way of healing all wounds. One thing that will be a problem is getting free agents to sign here due to the rep we have now. |
|
|
|
Post by olpapa on Feb 9, 2020 11:00:38 GMT -6
I still stick by my belief that I'm not sure Crane had to know what was going on. This sounds like something that was created by the analytics department which was led by Luhnow. This makes Luhnow look worse. If he knew about this program, I can't believe he didn't know how it was being used. On the plus side, I feel slightly better about the players. (Only slightly.) It was not "player-driven". This was coming down from high up and they ran with it. Not that it matters anymore. The only thing that fixes this is another championship soon. I agree with everything you said. |
|
|
|
Post by Saint on Feb 9, 2020 11:19:53 GMT -6
I still stick by my belief that I'm not sure Crane had to know what was going on. This sounds like something that was created by the analytics department which was led by Luhnow. This makes Luhnow look worse. If he knew about this program, I can't believe he didn't know how it was being used. On the plus side, I feel slightly better about the players. (Only slightly.) It was not "player-driven". This was coming down from high up and they ran with it. Not that it matters anymore. The only thing that fixes this is another championship soon. Winning has a way of healing all wounds. One thing that will be a problem is getting free agents to sign here due to the rep we have now. Yeah, I agree. There are a lot of pissed off players that are not going to want anything to do with this team for a few years, I'd imagine. We won't have any trouble with some lower tier or mid-level FAs, but good luck getting an AS-caliber free agent without drastically overpaying. And I also think this greatly hurts the value some of our current players will have when they reach free agency. (Not to mention there are some teams that flatout won't look at them because they know the fans would get pissed off. Teams like the Dodgers, Yankees, and Indians for example.) If Springer hopes to get on with Boston or NY to get closer to home, he might be in for a rude awakening. |
|
|
|
Post by Saint on Feb 9, 2020 11:22:41 GMT -6
I still stick by my belief that I'm not sure Crane had to know what was going on. This sounds like something that was created by the analytics department which was led by Luhnow. This makes Luhnow look worse. If he knew about this program, I can't believe he didn't know how it was being used. On the plus side, I feel slightly better about the players. (Only slightly.) It was not "player-driven". This was coming down from high up and they ran with it. Not that it matters anymore. The only thing that fixes this is another championship soon. I agree with everything you said. I do also stick with my belief that, even though what the Astros did was wrong, a good portion of the league was involved in similar unethical operations. Early accounts are that Boston is not going to hit with much of a penalty for their 2018 rule-breaking even though it was their second time, and that bothers me. The Astros brought it on themselves, but they're also being made out to be the scapegoats in this. |
|
|
|
Post by blcoach8 on Feb 9, 2020 11:37:29 GMT -6
Winning has a way of healing all wounds. One thing that will be a problem is getting free agents to sign here due to the rep we have now. Yeah, I agree. There are a lot of pissed off players that are not going to want anything to do with this team for a few years, I'd imagine. We won't have any trouble with some lower tier or mid-level FAs, but good luck getting an AS-caliber free agent without drastically overpaying. And I also think this greatly hurts the value some of our current players will have when they reach free agency. (Not to mention there are some teams that flatout won't look at them because they know the fans would get pissed off. Teams like the Dodgers, Yankees, and Indians for example.) If Springer hopes to get on with Boston or NY to get closer to home, he might be in for a rude awakening. You bring up something that I thought about.....in a way, while this scandal has greatly tarnished the reputation of our organization, it could help us in retaining key players like Springer. I agree that he could be in for a big surprise if he expects big money from Boston or NY, It could be easier for us to re-sign him and maybe a few others, like Correa if we decide to keep him. If more "issues" flare up this season, I would get rid of him......enough is enough, |
|
|
|
Post by blcoach8 on Feb 9, 2020 11:39:16 GMT -6
I agree with everything you said. I do also stick with my belief that, even though what the Astros did was wrong, a good portion of the league was involved in similar unethical operations. Early accounts are that Boston is not going to hit with much of a penalty for their 2018 rule-breaking even though it was their second time, and that bothers me. The Astros brought it on themselves, but they're also being made out to be the scapegoats in this. Supports my belief that Manfred is in the hip pockets of big market teams........Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers. |
|
|
|
Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Feb 9, 2020 15:13:41 GMT -6
I hate that they cheated. It makes me angry and disappointed. I also do NOT care who knew about it or whether it was player-run or not. Crane may or may not have known. He's the head of a large multinational corporation and surely depends on his executives to police this sort of stuff. I posted an article a few months before this bombshell dropped which accused the Astros of having a toxic front office environment...many here poopooed it as not important as long as we had success. Turns out that it was more important than we realized.
|
|
|
|
Post by blcoach8 on Feb 9, 2020 15:34:26 GMT -6
I hate that they cheated. It makes me angry and disappointed. I also do NOT care who knew about it or whether it was player-run or not. Crane may or may not have known. He's the head of a large multinational corporation and surely depends on his executives to police this sort of stuff. I posted an article a few months before this bombshell dropped which accused the Astros of having a toxic front office environment...many here poopooed it as not important as long as we had success. Turns out that it was more important than we realized. Going by what we know now, the term "toxic" pretty well describes the Astros front office. A lot of the problem has been removed,but, there is still some cleaning to do. If Kevin Goldstein is still there, the biggest turd has not been flushed. |
|
|
|
Post by Saint on Feb 9, 2020 16:17:45 GMT -6
I hate that they cheated. It makes me angry and disappointed. I also do NOT care who knew about it or whether it was player-run or not. Crane may or may not have known. He's the head of a large multinational corporation and surely depends on his executives to police this sort of stuff. I posted an article a few months before this bombshell dropped which accused the Astros of having a toxic front office environment...many here poopooed it as not important as long as we had success. Turns out that it was more important than we realized. I don't mind a little toxicity if the results are good. It seems that it went beyond toxic though. |
|
|
|
Post by unionstation82 on Feb 9, 2020 18:44:21 GMT -6
The biggest joke of all is that repeat offenders like the Red Sox can somehow avoid harsh penalty.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2020 9:17:47 GMT -6
Will Manfred punish the Red Sox or is he hoping it blows over? He doesn't want to hurt the feelings of such a storied franchise.
|
|
marshall
Veteran
21st Century Luddite
Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood...
Posts: 4,358
Likes: 446
|
Post by marshall on Feb 10, 2020 9:56:20 GMT -6
Will Manfred punish the Red Sox or is he hoping it blows over? He doesn't want to hurt the feelings of such a storied franchise. Nothing will happen. |
|
|
|
Post by blcoach8 on Feb 10, 2020 10:20:05 GMT -6
Will Manfred punish the Red Sox or is he hoping it blows over? He doesn't want to hurt the feelings of such a storied franchise. Manfred made an example of the Astros at the urging of embarrassed Yankees, who were eliminated 3 times in a row by the Astros. The Red Sox are also an east coast media darling so nothing will happen to them. Manfred is a spineless prick and won't punish Boston or NY no matter what they could find. In fact, I would not put it past Manfred to destroy evidence against both of them. |
|
|
|
Post by sempersmom on Feb 10, 2020 10:35:15 GMT -6
The biggest joke of all is that repeat offenders like the Red Sox can somehow avoid harsh penalty. That's what really pisses me off. I have felt all along they were just making scapegoats out of the Astros. |
|
|
|
Post by blcoach8 on Feb 10, 2020 10:53:43 GMT -6
The biggest joke of all is that repeat offenders like the Red Sox can somehow avoid harsh penalty. That's what really pisses me off. I have felt all along they were just making scapegoats out of the Astros. exactly. If we hadn't eliminated the Red Sox and Yankees, this mess would have been dropped. |
|
I agree..........straight people should stay home that night and let the perverts have their party. Maybe Crane will provide free food and drinks to celebrate.
