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Post by unionstation82 on Jan 22, 2020 12:04:20 GMT -6
I hate the Yankees, but Jeter should have been unanimous. If Jeter didn't play for the Yankees, he would not have been a first ballot inductee. Don't be a hater. |
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Post by sempersmom on Jan 22, 2020 12:06:59 GMT -6
If Jeter didn't play for the Yankees, he would not have been a first ballot inductee. Don't be a hater. Too late. Can you say overrated? |
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Post by unionstation82 on Jan 22, 2020 12:14:23 GMT -6
Too late. Can you say overrated? He’s overrated (mostly on defense) but is the definition of a first-ballot HOF’er. For a shortstop, he’s got tremendous career numbers (almost 3,500 hits) and look at his postseason numbers. He’s also a former Rookie of the Year and is a 5-time world champion while being a star on those championship teams. Like Verlander, he’s done it all except for one thing, and for him it’s the MVP. If he isn’t first-ballot, I don’t know who is. |
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Post by sempersmom on Jan 22, 2020 13:37:58 GMT -6
Too late. Can you say overrated? Hes overrated (mostly on defense) but is the definition of a first-ballot HOF’er. For a shortstop, he’s got tremendous career numbers (almost 3,500 hits) and look at his postseason numbers. He’s also a former Rookie of the Year and is a 5-time world champion while being a star on those championship teams. Like Verlander, he’s done it all except for one thing, and for him it’s the MVP. If he isn’t first-ballot, I don’t know who is. Blah, blah, blah. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Jan 22, 2020 15:10:59 GMT -6
It's time for Bonds and Clemens to be enshrined. Those two, along with Sosa and McGwire,should be inducted into the HALL OF SHAME as should Pete Rose. You wanted to convict the Astros before the evidence was in and here you are wanting druggies and a guy who bet on baseball in the HOF.  on three.......everyone say HYPOCRITE. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Jan 22, 2020 15:14:25 GMT -6
Too late. Can you say overrated? Jeter was an automatic first ballot hall of famer. I am glad Walker and Simmons got in. Billy Wagner and Curt Schilling should be in, too. Schillng would already be in if he didn't speak out against liberal idiots. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Jan 22, 2020 15:38:51 GMT -6
It's time for Bonds and Clemens to be enshrined. Those two, along with Sosa and McGwire,should be inducted into the HALL OF SHAME as should Pete Rose. You wanted to convict the Astros before the evidence was in and here you are wanting druggies and a guy who bet on baseball in the HOF. on three.......everyone say HYPOCRITE. Wrong, as usual. I think Altuve is going to have a HOF career, and I do not think him being a cheating reprobate should keep him out of the HOF. The SAME way I don't think the cheating of Bonds or Rocket should keep them out. The reason is, they are all HOF-worthy even had they not cheated. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Jan 22, 2020 15:50:24 GMT -6
Those two, along with Sosa and McGwire,should be inducted into the HALL OF SHAME as should Pete Rose. You wanted to convict the Astros before the evidence was in and here you are wanting druggies and a guy who bet on baseball in the HOF. on three.......everyone say HYPOCRITE. Wrong, as usual. I think Altuve is going to have a HOF career, and I do not think him being a cheating reprobate should keep him out of the HOF. The SAME way I don't think the cheating of Bonds or Rocket should keep them out. The reason is, they are all HOF-worthy even had they not cheated. I am right, as usual. You want druggies in the HOF but wanted to hang the Astros before the evidence was all verified. Rose is a worse cheater than any Astro who benefitted from Cora's sign stealing operation. There is no proof as to which Astro players could be "cheating reprobates" as you called Altuve. No proof that he used any of the information although I think he and the rest used it if offered to them as would any other major league player., NONE of them should apologize for anything and certainly should not be kept out of the HOF if they have earned the right to be voted in. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Jan 22, 2020 15:56:43 GMT -6
Wrong, as usual. I think Altuve is going to have a HOF career, and I do not think him being a cheating reprobate should keep him out of the HOF. The SAME way I don't think the cheating of Bonds or Rocket should keep them out. The reason is, they are all HOF-worthy even had they not cheated. I am right, as usual. You want druggies in the HOF but wanted to hang the Astros before the evidence was all verified. Rose is a worse cheater than any Astro who benefitted from Cora's sign stealing operation. There is no proof as to which Astro players could be "cheating reprobates" as you called Altuve. No proof that he used any of the information although I think he and the rest used it if offered to them as would any other major league player., NONE of them should apologize for anything and certainly should not be kept out of the HOF if they have earned the right to be voted in. Your ignorance is astounding sometimes. |
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Post by abregmanfan on Jan 22, 2020 16:03:18 GMT -6
I am right, as usual. You want druggies in the HOF but wanted to hang the Astros before the evidence was all verified. Rose is a worse cheater than any Astro who benefitted from Cora's sign stealing operation. There is no proof as to which Astro players could be "cheating reprobates" as you called Altuve. No proof that he used any of the information although I think he and the rest used it if offered to them as would any other major league player., NONE of them should apologize for anything and certainly should not be kept out of the HOF if they have earned the right to be voted in. Your ignorance is astounding sometimes. Oh boy, here we go again! |
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Post by unionstation82 on Jan 22, 2020 16:06:16 GMT -6
Hes overrated (mostly on defense) but is the definition of a first-ballot HOF’er. For a shortstop, he’s got tremendous career numbers (almost 3,500 hits) and look at his postseason numbers. He’s also a former Rookie of the Year and is a 5-time world champion while being a star on those championship teams. Like Verlander, he’s done it all except for one thing, and for him it’s the MVP. If he isn’t first-ballot, I don’t know who is. Blah, blah, blah. So, you just don’t like him then? |
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Post by Saint on Jan 22, 2020 16:16:27 GMT -6
My views on steroid use have softened as I've gotten older and softer. To me, if they were HoF-caliber players before the alleged use of steroids, I think they should be worthy now. You have to look at what was going on in the sport during the era (and now as well when they look at players who may have benefitted from sign-stealing technology). Steroid use was a murky issue for a long time, and, at the end of the day, a broken rule doesn't necessarily have to mean permanent forever banning (unless that is the punishment for the rule). But there is no rule that says a player punished or suspended can't make the HoF. The Hall is it's own entity and can make it's own decisions.
That being said, I think Bonds, Clemens, Rose, and A-Rod should all be in the Hall now even though I don't personally care for any of them. As players, they were game-changers and elite performers. It's okay for them to be in the Hall if there is a dark spot on their careers. That dark spot doesn't cover their entire career. It's a part of their story just like Mantle's drinking problems, Ty Cobb's racism, and Ruth's all-around heathen-ness.
I think the same should be for Altuve (if he continues on a HoF trajectory). Whether he participated or not, this whole issue is a part of his story now. That doesn't mean it should exclude him from the Hall if he continues to be a generational talent.
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Post by blcoach8 on Jan 22, 2020 16:23:02 GMT -6
I am right, as usual. You want druggies in the HOF but wanted to hang the Astros before the evidence was all verified. Rose is a worse cheater than any Astro who benefitted from Cora's sign stealing operation. There is no proof as to which Astro players could be "cheating reprobates" as you called Altuve. No proof that he used any of the information although I think he and the rest used it if offered to them as would any other major league player., NONE of them should apologize for anything and certainly should not be kept out of the HOF if they have earned the right to be voted in. Your ignorance is astounding sometimes. Have you bothered to read your own posts? You had the Astros convicted by the time the allegations came out. If you think I am "ignorant" because I want PED users and a manager who bet on baseball kept out of the HOF, I think you are confused as to which of us is ignorant. I am surprised to see you call Altuve a "cheating reprobate" since I thought you felt he could do no wrong. None of us know who or who didn't accept the information provided by the cameras. But, if you are of the opinion that any major league player would nto have used the information, you need to wake up to reality. These players are all after long-term multi-million dollar contracts and will accept any information they think will help them get those contracts. I can assure you that I am right about this. You go fnd ONE player who claims he had access to the information and refused to accept it and I'll show you a liar. Anyway, it' time to put this topic to bed and concentrate on ST and the season. They have a lot they need to do. |
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Post by sempersmom on Jan 22, 2020 16:54:10 GMT -6
So, you just don’t like him then? Can't stand his ass. |
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Post by thomasj13 on Jan 22, 2020 17:51:37 GMT -6
So, you just don’t like him then? Can't stand his ass. What about his pecs? |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Jan 22, 2020 20:22:13 GMT -6
Overrated? Not by much.  |
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Post by Saint on Jan 22, 2020 20:37:26 GMT -6
Counting stats are high because he was in a ton of postseason games. He's a HoFer, but those numbers come with a stipulation.
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Post by unionstation82 on Jan 22, 2020 20:45:31 GMT -6
Counting stats are high because he was in a ton of postseason games. He's a HoFer, but those numbers come with a stipulation. He also had a slash line of .308/.374/.465 in the postseason, and the numbers were about the same in the World Series. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Jan 22, 2020 20:46:11 GMT -6
I’m not even really a Jeter fan but deserving is deserving.
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Post by Saint on Jan 22, 2020 21:14:20 GMT -6
Counting stats are high because he was in a ton of postseason games. He's a HoFer, but those numbers come with a stipulation. He also had a slash line of .308/.374/.465 in the postseason, and the numbers were about the same in the World Series. Yeah he was good in the postseason. An .841 OPS isn't elite or anything though. Altuve is at .871 |
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Post by unionstation82 on Jan 22, 2020 21:54:15 GMT -6
He also had a slash line of .308/.374/.465 in the postseason, and the numbers were about the same in the World Series. Yeah he was good in the postseason. An .841 OPS isn't elite or anything though. Altuve is at .871 No one is saying Altuve isn’t great in the postseason. You know who’s been overlooked? Rafael Palmeiro. I mean a guy with 3,000 hits AND 500 homers? Even Barry Bonds doesn’t have that. |
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Post by sempersmom on Jan 23, 2020 9:49:03 GMT -6
I’m not even really a Jeter fan but deserving is deserving. I never said he wasn't deserving, just that he didn't deserve to go in first ballot. It's the team he played for that got that done. |
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Post by Saint on Jan 23, 2020 9:53:21 GMT -6
Yeah he was good in the postseason. An .841 OPS isn't elite or anything though. Altuve is at .871 No one is saying Altuve isn’t great in the postseason. You know who’s been overlooked? Rafael Palmeiro. I mean a guy with 3,000 hits AND 500 homers? Even Barry Bonds doesn’t have that. Yeah, Pameiro got steamrolled. |
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Post by sempersmom on Jan 23, 2020 9:55:44 GMT -6
No one is saying Altuve isn’t great in the postseason. You know who’s been overlooked? Rafael Palmeiro. I mean a guy with 3,000 hits AND 500 homers? Even Barry Bonds doesn’t have that. Yeah, Pameiro got steamrolled. Why is Palmeiro being overlooked? |
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Post by blcoach8 on Jan 23, 2020 10:02:03 GMT -6
Yeah, Pameiro got steamrolled. Why is Palmeiro being overlooked? Palmeiro was linked to PED's just like Bonds, Sosa, McGwire and Clemens. |
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talshill
Arbitration Eligible
Vini, vici, pavori.
Posts: 2,004
Likes: 1,111
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Post by talshill on Jan 23, 2020 10:42:51 GMT -6
My views on steroid use have softened as I've gotten older and softer. To me, if they were HoF-caliber players before the alleged use of steroids, I think they should be worthy now. You have to look at what was going on in the sport during the era (and now as well when they look at players who may have benefitted from sign-stealing technology). Steroid use was a murky issue for a long time, and, at the end of the day, a broken rule doesn't necessarily have to mean permanent forever banning (unless that is the punishment for the rule). But there is no rule that says a player punished or suspended can't make the HoF. The Hall is it's own entity and can make it's own decisions. That being said, I think Bonds, Clemens, Rose, and A-Rod should all be in the Hall now even though I don't personally care for any of them. As players, they were game-changers and elite performers. It's okay for them to be in the Hall if there is a dark spot on their careers. That dark spot doesn't cover their entire career. It's a part of their story just like Mantle's drinking problems, Ty Cobb's racism, and Ruth's all-around heathen-ness. I think the same should be for Altuve (if he continues on a HoF trajectory). Whether he participated or not, this whole issue is a part of his story now. That doesn't mean it should exclude him from the Hall if he continues to be a generational talent. I think if you study a little deeper that a lot of the supposed "racism" attributed to Cobb was a hack job that only surfaced after his death. Some light reading: bleacherreport.com/articles/43506-ty-cobb-was-not-a-racistwww.nytimes.com/2015/06/01/sports/baseball/removing-the-fangs-from-ty-cobbs-notoriety.htmlwww.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-knife-in-ty-cobbs-back-65618032/ |
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talshill
Arbitration Eligible
Vini, vici, pavori.
Posts: 2,004
Likes: 1,111
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Post by talshill on Jan 23, 2020 10:48:52 GMT -6
Jeter deserves to be in the hall of fame. He deserves it on the first ballot. Yes, he was overrated, a byproduct of playing in NY his whole career. He benefited tremendously from playing on some great teams, but those are the breaks. If Houston had drafted him (as they should) he would still be in the hall of fame but who knows how long it would have taken for him to get in.
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Post by unionstation82 on Jan 23, 2020 10:58:33 GMT -6
Jeter deserves to be in the hall of fame. He deserves it on the first ballot. Yes, he was overrated, a byproduct of playing in NY his whole career. He benefited tremendously from playing on some great teams, but those are the breaks. If Houston had drafted him (as they should) he would still be in the hall of fame but who knows how long it would have taken for him to get in. Ot would’ve been one thing if he came up short in the postseason, but he was one of their stars. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Jan 23, 2020 11:25:12 GMT -6
I think he was more overhyped than overrated.
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Post by sempersmom on Jan 23, 2020 11:34:38 GMT -6
I think he was more overhyped than overrated. But chanting overrated sounds better than overhyped. |
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on three.......everyone say HYPOCRITE.
