|
|
Post by Saint on Jan 14, 2020 20:04:07 GMT -6
Breaking news:  |
|
|
|
Post by blcoach8 on Jan 14, 2020 20:06:05 GMT -6
Wonder if this cheating had anything to do with Ryan leaving? probably |
|
|
|
Post by batman007 on Jan 14, 2020 21:40:56 GMT -6
It's taken me a while to sort this out in my mind, but here goes: 1. Fiers- He broke "the code" of baseball silence and will be a pariah in MLB circles for the rest of his life. He's also a hypocrite for not standing up to the cheating when he was on the team that was doing it. I seriously doubt he'll be turning in his WS ring either. Regardless, it's not his fault the team cheated, though he was complicit with it at the time. And I don't buy his "I just did it for the younger players" crap. He had an axe to grind against the Astros and he stabbed them in the back with it. 2. Crane- He knew about it. Dumb guys don't get to be billionaires, and Crane isn't dumb. But because he is one of the 30 bosses of Manfred and he undoubtedly insulated himself from the day-to-day goings-on (no paper trail), he gets a free pass. Baseball itself is corrupt. Which is no surprise. Any business where money is involved on this kind of scale is corrupt by default. 3. Luhnow- He did know about it, his post-firing denial notwithstanding. He received the emails talking about it (as an aside, if you're going to frickin' cheat, how stupid can you be to leave an email record?). If by some bizarre twist he didn't know about it, then he should have been fired for not knowing what was going on. Luhnow is far from stupid. He knew what was going on which makes his tweet about "no knowledge" even more sickening. 4. Hinch- What a freaking moron. Just wow. You had enough moral fiber to attack inanimate monitors but not enough to confront grown men. And then you smugly denied any cheating on television. Adios. 5. The players- I don't know which ones used the system (other than Gattis) and which ones didn't, but since (apparently) not a single one had the guts to stand up to it you can consider them all complicit. How legitimate are Altuve's batting titles and MVP now? How legit are any of their stats? How good are they really, now that they won't have advanced notice of what pitch is coming? We'll soon find out. 6. The Championship- The report stated the cheating continued throughout the playoffs. IF THAT'S TRUE, it's tainted. No, I didn't believe they would nor do I think they should vacate the title. It would be impossible at this point to reconstruct, pitch by pitch or even game by game, how much or indeed if any cheating aided in a particular situation. The championship is legitimate, but it is tainted. 7. Other teams- If an unbiased investigative agency crawled up every MLB team's ass with a microscope and could magically convince those in the know to tell the truth I'd wager that EVERY ONE of them could be nailed for something and that probably a dozen or so did things just as egregious as the Astros. The sanctimonious screams of Yankee and Dodger fans sticks in my craw; I truly hope their teams are unblemished, but I'd bet my retirement account that they're not. However, you can't convict on innuendo or supposition, and absent proof we'll have to take the ridicule in stride. 8. The 2020 season- In light of Manfred's ban hammer, I'm going to bet a lot of teams curtail whatever it was they were doing. Consequently, we might see a more even playing field this year which means stats are going to be down all over MLB. You are going to see some pitchers have much better seasons while hitters will struggle more. Of course, I could be wrong. Maybe the Dodgers or Yankees have more sophisticated systems (or maybe they don't) and aren't stupid enough to put anything down on paper or electronic media. I hope the Astros win the WS in 2020...legitimately. That's a good summary of it. Although I don't think the cheating actually helped them at all or else they would have stuck with it. If Altuve hadn't been so amazingly fantastic on the road in 2017, I might believe differently. At this point I mostly wish some of the players would stand up and say what really happened. Hinch and Luhnow made mistakes, but they shouldn't be taking on the whole firing squad by themselves. All this about sums up my thoughts. I still believe that it was more of a hinderance than help. I believe the Home/Away splits Saint posted and our Home/Away W/L record somewhat supports this (though we can never know for sure) Altuve was a beast before 2017 (won two batting titles before all this started), so I don't doubt his ability. What grinds my gears is that outside of two sports no one really cares about (Soccer, WNBA), Houston can always be considered the town with illegitimate championships. The Rockets always get crap for winning the two years Jordan was gone, and now the Astros will get this. The championship is tainted. My memory of the final out in Game 7 is tainted. I'm still a fan, and will continue to be. Even though they didn't strip us of the title, it feels like they did. I hate the fact that I'll always have to defend the team for this because there is no defense. On the other hand, I got my World Series replica ring and trophy, so don't care, had sex. |
|
|
|
Post by churchill on Jan 14, 2020 21:58:58 GMT -6
It's taken me a while to sort this out in my mind, but here goes: 6. The Championship- The report stated the cheating continued throughout the playoffs. IF THAT'S TRUE, it's tainted. No, I didn't believe they would nor do I think they should vacate the title. It would be impossible at this point to reconstruct, pitch by pitch or even game by game, how much or indeed if any cheating aided in a particular situation. The championship is legitimate, but it is tainted. So was Darvish tipping his pitches or were his signs being stolen? |
|
|
|
Post by blcoach8 on Jan 14, 2020 22:15:54 GMT -6
It's taken me a while to sort this out in my mind, but here goes: 6. The Championship- The report stated the cheating continued throughout the playoffs. IF THAT'S TRUE, it's tainted. No, I didn't believe they would nor do I think they should vacate the title. It would be impossible at this point to reconstruct, pitch by pitch or even game by game, how much or indeed if any cheating aided in a particular situation. The championship is legitimate, but it is tainted. So was Darvish tipping his pitches or were his signs being stolen? I don't give a damn. I enjoyed watching us hammer him, |
|
|
|
Post by bannedfan on Jan 15, 2020 5:44:30 GMT -6
How did the home plate ump not hear the banging on the trash can and wonder....what the hell is going on? I don’t get this. Guess it’s turning a blind eye.
|
|
|
|
Post by bannedfan on Jan 15, 2020 5:51:17 GMT -6
Cora might want to check himself into a mental health facility in San Juan.
|
|
|
|
Post by m240 on Jan 15, 2020 6:37:31 GMT -6
I think that summary of events pretty much coincides with my own. I also think I’ve used up about all the energy that I’m going to use Thinking about this crap.
So time to focus on having a great season and shutting everyone of these SOBs up. When the ball stop flying out of the ballpark this summer Iwonder what MLB will say about that.
|
|
|
|
Post by bannedfan on Jan 15, 2020 7:27:49 GMT -6
I have a hard time wishing this team well in 2020. They are going to get abused in away games by the fans. They’re cheaters. I don’t think of them as WS champs anymore. Chumps maybe. Cheaters definitely.
|
|
|
|
Post by abregmanfan on Jan 15, 2020 8:46:59 GMT -6
Everyone has their right to their opinion. I will back my team 100%.
|
|
|
|
Post by olpapa on Jan 15, 2020 9:16:53 GMT -6
Trump is behind all of this. The firing of Luhnow and Hinch? Just eye wash to try and conceal his real goal. What goal you ask? To discriminate against me! Why discriminate against me you ask? For the same reason Trump sent the hurricane to unjustly punish the people of Puerto Rico!! Trump is a racist!! He sacrificed a few whites to the hurricane just like he is sacrificing Luhnow and Hinch to Manfred!! All of this to beat down one Puerto Rican who had the audacity to succeed in a white man’s world!!!
— Alex Cora
|
|
|
|
Post by unionstation82 on Jan 15, 2020 9:17:38 GMT -6
Trump is behind all of this. The firing of Luhnow and Hinch? Just eye wash to try and conceal their real goal. What goal you ask? To discriminate against me! Why discriminate against me you ask? For the same reason Trump sent the hurricane to unjustly punish the people of Puerto Rico!! Trump is a racist!! He sacrificed a few whites to the hurricane just like he is sacrificing Luhnow and Hinch to Manfred!! All of this to beat down one Puerto Rican who had the audacity to succeed in a white man’s world!!! — Alex Cora I will accept this as fact. What a bad person. |
|
|
|
Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Jan 15, 2020 10:11:35 GMT -6
I have a hard time wishing this team well in 2020. They are going to get abused in away games by the fans. They’re cheaters. I don’t think of them as WS champs anymore. Chumps maybe. Cheaters definitely. Then why continue following them? We all have two choices, really: - Be mad, but remain a fan and support the team
- Be mad, unable to get over it, not support the team
Time to make a choice.
|
|
|
|
Post by unionstation82 on Jan 15, 2020 10:13:45 GMT -6
I have a hard time wishing this team well in 2020. They are going to get abused in away games by the fans. They’re cheaters. I don’t think of them as WS champs anymore. Chumps maybe. Cheaters definitely. Then why continue following them? We all have two choices, really: - Be mad, but remain a fan and support the team
- Be mad, unable to get over it, not support the team
Time to make a choice.
A is the easy choice. |
|
talshill
Arbitration Eligible
Vini, vici, pavori.
Posts: 2,015
Likes: 1,115
|
Post by talshill on Jan 15, 2020 10:17:53 GMT -6
Then why continue following them? We all have two choices, really: - Be mad, but remain a fan and support the team
- Be mad, unable to get over it, not support the team
Time to make a choice.
A is the easy choice. You mean "1"? A is not an option. |
|
talshill
Arbitration Eligible
Vini, vici, pavori.
Posts: 2,015
Likes: 1,115
|
Post by talshill on Jan 15, 2020 10:22:10 GMT -6
I have a hard time wishing this team well in 2020. They are going to get abused in away games by the fans. They’re cheaters. I don’t think of them as WS champs anymore. Chumps maybe. Cheaters definitely. Then why continue following them? We all have two choices, really: - Be mad, but remain a fan and support the team
- Be mad, unable to get over it, not support the team
Time to make a choice.
Pretty much. I'm disappointed that they didn't do it legitimately. The irony is that they are good enough to win without cheating. I'll still follow them but I've lost respect for them. I'm anxious to see how good they really are without video help. |
|
|
|
Post by abregmanfan on Jan 15, 2020 10:25:21 GMT -6
I have a hard time wishing this team well in 2020. They are going to get abused in away games by the fans. They’re cheaters. I don’t think of them as WS champs anymore. Chumps maybe. Cheaters definitely. Then why continue following them? We all have two choices, really: - Be mad, but remain a fan and support the team
- Be mad, unable to get over it, not support the team
Time to make a choice.
No doubt, I choose #1. Go Stros! |
|
|
|
Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Jan 15, 2020 10:40:56 GMT -6
Then why continue following them? We all have two choices, really: - Be mad, but remain a fan and support the team
- Be mad, unable to get over it, not support the team
Time to make a choice.
A is the easy choice. There is no "A", dummy. |
|
|
|
Post by thomasj13 on Jan 15, 2020 10:53:53 GMT -6
I have a hard time wishing this team well in 2020. They are going to get abused in away games by the fans. They’re cheaters. I don’t think of them as WS champs anymore. Chumps maybe. Cheaters definitely. Then why continue following them? We all have two choices, really: - Be mad, but remain a fan and support the team
- Be mad, unable to get over it, not support the team
Time to make a choice.
Support. |
|
talshill
Arbitration Eligible
Vini, vici, pavori.
Posts: 2,015
Likes: 1,115
|
Post by talshill on Jan 15, 2020 11:21:41 GMT -6
Then why continue following them? We all have two choices, really: - Be mad, but remain a fan and support the team
- Be mad, unable to get over it, not support the team
Time to make a choice.
Support. So, you are an athletic supporter? |
|
talshill
Arbitration Eligible
Vini, vici, pavori.
Posts: 2,015
Likes: 1,115
|
Post by talshill on Jan 15, 2020 11:24:27 GMT -6
I'll have to decide whether I'm going to do the prediction thread this season. Right now I don't think I want to. It's hard for me to get amped up about the season. But still want the Yankees and Dodgers to lose.
|
|
|
|
Post by paastrosfan on Jan 15, 2020 11:24:30 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by Saint on Jan 15, 2020 11:26:05 GMT -6
5-10 years from now none of this will matter except to a few salty LAD fans.
I don't look at the championship as tainted. They cheated but there is no reason to believe it helped them more than hurt them. We also don't know much it was used or when. It also sounds like other teams were doing similar cheating and just didn't get caught. Also, if teams suspected cheating and didn't do anything to combat it, they were dumb also.
I'm disappointed in the players right now, but every team has cheated or has had players that cheated. Do we think every championship team that had a steroid user on it is tainted? No we dont. I
The players have lost some of their luster to me, but not the title in 2017 or the pennant in 2019.
|
|
|
|
Post by thomasj13 on Jan 15, 2020 11:38:43 GMT -6
So, you are an athletic supporter? Houston athletes, yes |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2020 12:07:10 GMT -6
I will always root for and support the Astros. I'm disappointed in the players, but I am looking forward to the fresh start next season with a new manager and GM. Yes, I know the players lead the cheating scandal but we will never know who was and wasn't involved.
|
|
|
|
Post by Saint on Jan 15, 2020 12:14:56 GMT -6
So who releases a book first? Cora, Hinch, or a player?
|
|
|
|
Post by unionstation82 on Jan 15, 2020 12:17:20 GMT -6
You mean "1"? A is not an option. I choose Option Alpha. |
|
|
|
Post by unionstation82 on Jan 15, 2020 12:17:55 GMT -6
So who releases a book first? Cora, Hinch, or a player? Logan Morrison. |
|
|
|
Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Jan 15, 2020 12:19:37 GMT -6
So who releases a book first? Cora, Hinch, or a player? Luhnow. |
|
|
|
Post by unionstation82 on Jan 15, 2020 12:21:00 GMT -6
I'll have to decide whether I'm going to do the prediction thread this season. Right now I don't think I want to. It's hard for me to get amped up about the season. But still want the Yankees and Dodgers to lose. Yeah, it’s all nihilistic right now. |
|
