|
|
Post by thomasj13 on Aug 14, 2020 5:53:29 GMT -6
I would definitely take JV over Greinke and most other pitchers if I had to win one game. On that note, who do you guys think is the most over-rated starting pitcher in the game? I vote for Kershaw. I think Kershaw is a HoFer already, but, unfortunately for him, will always be partially remembered for his struggles in the postseason. He's retired now, but I've thought CC Sabathia was overrated for a long long time. He had a very good prime, but he was mostly only an average or even below-average pitcher for the majority of his career. Present day: Chris Archer... His numbers never match his talent/ability However, I think he would be a great by low candidate for the Astros, this upcoming off-season, if the Pirates do not pick up his option. |
|
|
|
Post by thomasj13 on Aug 14, 2020 6:03:49 GMT -6
I am hoping the Astros get the next Morton in the off season ... I would like to see what Strom could do with Chris Archer and Robbie Ray.
Hopefully the Astros can grow the bullpen from within, but we may need a contingency plan for Pressly. He just not dominant as he was pre-injury, he has not rebounded.
|
|
|
|
Post by Saint on Aug 14, 2020 6:39:05 GMT -6
I think Kershaw is a HoFer already, but, unfortunately for him, will always be partially remembered for his struggles in the postseason. He's retired now, but I've thought CC Sabathia was overrated for a long long time. He had a very good prime, but he was mostly only an average or even below-average pitcher for the majority of his career. Present day: Chris Archer... His numbers never match his talent/ability However, I think he would be a great by low candidate for the Astros, this upcoming off-season, if the Pirates do not pick up his option. That's a good one. Archer has been below average since 2015. |
|
|
|
Post by unionstation82 on Aug 14, 2020 6:58:15 GMT -6
If I had to win 1 game, Jv is my choice. If I had to win 20 games, Jv is my choice. I am higher on Greinke than most, but Jv is just the freaking man! For one game I think I'd go with JV also (at least if they were both healthy in their current forms). In their prime it's disgustingly close. 2011 Verlander > all |
|
|
|
Post by unionstation82 on Aug 14, 2020 7:00:54 GMT -6
I would definitely take JV over Greinke and most other pitchers if I had to win one game. On that note, who do you guys think is the most over-rated starting pitcher in the game? I vote for Kershaw. I think Kershaw is a HoFer already, but, unfortunately for him, will always be partially remembered for his struggles in the postseason. He's retired now, but I've thought CC Sabathia was overrated for a long long time. He had a very good prime, but he was mostly only an average or even below-average pitcher for the majority of his career. Kershaw is the Peyton Manning (minus championships) of baseball. Dominant and dynamic in the regular season with surgical precision and then Shawn Chacon in the postseason. |
|
|
|
Post by Saint on Aug 14, 2020 7:02:42 GMT -6
For one game I think I'd go with JV also (at least if they were both healthy in their current forms). In their prime it's disgustingly close. 2011 Verlander > all But can I direct you to Greinke's 2009 and 2015 seasons: 2011 Verlander2.40 ERA (172 ERA+) 1.175 WHIP 2009 Greinke2.16 ERA (205 ERA+) 1.073 WHIP 2015 Greinke1.66 ERA (222 ERA+) .844 WHIP Greinke's has had two seasons that, from an ERA+ standpoint, Verlander hasn't even gotten close to. |
|
|
|
Post by unionstation82 on Aug 14, 2020 9:17:25 GMT -6
I forgot about that 2015. Kershaw and Greinke were a lethal duo. I remember the Astros being clutch enough to sweep them in Houston. Good old clutch offense, I miss you.
|
|
|
|
Post by unionstation82 on Aug 14, 2020 9:18:47 GMT -6
But pitcher with an MVP > all. I wish Pedro got one. He certainly deserved it over Pudge.
|
|
|
|
Post by blcoach8 on Aug 14, 2020 9:25:46 GMT -6
I am hoping the Astros get the next Morton in the off season ... I would like to see what Strom could do with Chris Archer and Robbie Ray. Hopefully the Astros can grow the bullpen from within, but we may need a contingency plan for Pressly. He just not dominant as he was pre-injury, he has not rebounded. It still pisses me off that we let Morton go. That caused us to overpay for Greinke and have his big contract on the books.......I have no problem with taking a look at Archer if the price is right. |
|
|
|
Post by blcoach8 on Aug 14, 2020 9:28:44 GMT -6
But pitcher with an MVP > all. I wish Pedro got one. He certainly deserved it over Pudge. I lost any respect I had for Pedro when put Don Zimmer, who was 72 at the time, in a headlock and threw him to the ground. That showed Pedro to be a low class coward. Pudge is the greatest catcher of all-time. I also have a hard time believing a pitcher should get the MVP due to not playing every day. |
|
|
|
Post by Saint on Aug 14, 2020 9:59:40 GMT -6
I am hoping the Astros get the next Morton in the off season ... I would like to see what Strom could do with Chris Archer and Robbie Ray. Hopefully the Astros can grow the bullpen from within, but we may need a contingency plan for Pressly. He just not dominant as he was pre-injury, he has not rebounded. It still pisses me off that we let Morton go. That caused us to overpay for Greinke and have his big contract on the books.......I have no problem with taking a look at Archer if the price is right. It would have been nice last year, but he has sucked and is now hurt this year. |
|
|
|
Post by bearbryant on Aug 14, 2020 10:18:33 GMT -6
Sometimes I think AJ did that cause he got his feelers hurt when Morton got all the credit for Game 7 in 2017 so he wanted credit last year with some baffling bullpen moves. Classic over-managing
That theory suggests he cares more about egos than winning. |
|
|
|
Post by thomasj13 on Aug 14, 2020 10:20:28 GMT -6
I am hoping the Astros get the next Morton in the off season ... I would like to see what Strom could do with Chris Archer and Robbie Ray. Hopefully the Astros can grow the bullpen from within, but we may need a contingency plan for Pressly. He just not dominant as he was pre-injury, he has not rebounded. It still pisses me off that we let Morton go. That caused us to overpay for Greinke and have his big contract on the books.......I have no problem with taking a look at Archer if the price is right.I wanted to re-sign Morton as well....With his injury history, he was a pricey gamble. I have been impressed with Greinke, so I think it was the right move....I haven't tracked the players the Astros gave up to get him, but I think the Astros did well in the trade....Unlike the Fiers/Gomez fiasco. |
|
|
|
Post by thomasj13 on Aug 14, 2020 10:30:32 GMT -6
It still pisses me off that we let Morton go. That caused us to overpay for Greinke and have his big contract on the books.......I have no problem with taking a look at Archer if the price is right. It would have been nice last year, but he has sucked and is now hurt this year. I did not know Morton was hurt....but is anyone really surprised? When he was a pending FA, I think Sherwin, me and maybe a couple others were hoping the Astros would re-sign Morton, but convert him to a closer......His stuff is just as good as Cole or maybe even better....but he is so prone to injury.....if he was the closer, could you imagine Morton going all out for one inning? We have seen the No Hitters from Nolan Ryan, Mike Scott and other great performances, but Morton, Game 7, to me was the best pitching performance I have ever seen from an Astros pitcher. |
|
|
|
Post by blcoach8 on Aug 14, 2020 11:05:48 GMT -6
It still pisses me off that we let Morton go. That caused us to overpay for Greinke and have his big contract on the books.......I have no problem with taking a look at Archer if the price is right. It would have been nice last year, but he has sucked and is now hurt this year. Everybody is hurt this year due to all the BS surrounding this virus. summer camp couldn't adequately replace spring training. |
|
|
|
Post by blcoach8 on Aug 14, 2020 11:07:27 GMT -6
I wanted to re-sign Morton as well....With his injury history, he was a pricey gamble. I have been impressed with Greinke, so I think it was the right move....I haven't tracked the players the Astros gave up to get him, but I think the Astros did well in the trade....Unlike the Fiers/Gomez fiasco. Luhnow got it stuck to him in the Fiers-Gomez fiasco. We give up Hader and get those two assholes. |
|
|
|
Post by blcoach8 on Aug 14, 2020 11:09:52 GMT -6
It would have been nice last year, but he has sucked and is now hurt this year. I did not know Morton was hurt....but is anyone really surprised? When he was a pending FA, I think Sherwin, me and maybe a couple others were hoping the Astros would re-sign Morton, but convert him to a closer......His stuff is just as good as Cole or maybe even better....but he is so prone to injury.....if he was the closer, could you imagine Morton going all out for one inning? We have seen the No Hitters from Nolan Ryan, Mike Scott and other great performances, but Morton, Game 7, to me was the best pitching performance I have ever seen from an Astros pitcher. Greinke in game 7 last year was as effective but not as dominating. No team in baseball would have touched Morton that night. Hinch had the brains to let Morton finish that game but blew it when he pulled Greinke. |
|
|
|
Post by Saint on Aug 14, 2020 12:32:01 GMT -6
Hinch had a short leash with ZG all postseason due to one bad start in the ALDS. It was a little strange. He barely averaged 5 IP per start in the ALCS and WS despite being pretty damn effective.
|
|
|
|
Post by thomasj13 on Aug 14, 2020 12:44:41 GMT -6
I did not know Morton was hurt....but is anyone really surprised? When he was a pending FA, I think Sherwin, me and maybe a couple others were hoping the Astros would re-sign Morton, but convert him to a closer......His stuff is just as good as Cole or maybe even better....but he is so prone to injury.....if he was the closer, could you imagine Morton going all out for one inning? We have seen the No Hitters from Nolan Ryan, Mike Scott and other great performances, but Morton, Game 7, to me was the best pitching performance I have ever seen from an Astros pitcher. Greinke in game 7 last year was as effective but not as dominating. No team in baseball would have touched Morton that night. Hinch had the brains to let Morton finish that game but blew it when he pulled Greinke. I don't think he blew it when he pulled Greinke.... He blew it by not putting in Cole to replace him.... Harris, when he pitched for LSU, and for the Astros, had a penchant for not winning in the most important games |
|
|
|
Post by bearbryant on Aug 14, 2020 12:55:06 GMT -6
Hinch had a short leash with ZG all postseason due to one bad start in the ALDS. It was a little strange. He barely averaged 5 IP per start in the ALCS and WS despite being pretty damn effective. sometimes I think he took Keuchel's chart out the binder and white-taped Zack's name over it
|
|
|
|
Post by unionstation82 on Aug 14, 2020 14:50:39 GMT -6
That theory suggests he cares more about egos than winning. What about the homer Harris gave up to Rendon in Game 6? It’s hard for me to fathom Harris being a better option than Greinke or Cole. |
|
|
|
Post by blcoach8 on Aug 14, 2020 15:08:56 GMT -6
Greinke in game 7 last year was as effective but not as dominating. No team in baseball would have touched Morton that night. Hinch had the brains to let Morton finish that game but blew it when he pulled Greinke. I don't think he blew it when he pulled Greinke.... He blew it by not putting in Cole to replace him.... Harris, when he pitched for LSU, and for the Astros, had a penchant for not winning in the most important games Hinch insulted Cole when he had him warm up and then went to Harris. I have to wonder if that had anything to do with Cole being so eager to sign with the Yankees......plus the sign stealing probably played a role in that, tool Hinch screwed up twice...one, when he pulled Greinke and then when he left Cole in the pen while we lost the game. You could tell after the game that Cole was more than just a little pissed off and I didn't blame him. |
|
|
|
Post by blcoach8 on Aug 14, 2020 15:10:05 GMT -6
Not necessarily. It suggests he was preoccupied with Kendrick's plate appearance against Harris in Game 6 instead of his PAs against Greinke in Game 7 What about the homer Harris gave up to Rendon in Game 6? It’s hard for me to fathom Harris being a better option than Greinke or Cole. Over the years just how many playoff games did Harris blow for us? More than a couple |
|
|
|
Post by bearbryant on Aug 14, 2020 16:07:19 GMT -6
Not necessarily. It suggests he was preoccupied with Kendrick's plate appearance against Harris in Game 6 instead of his PAs against Greinke in Game 7 What about the homer Harris gave up to Rendon in Game 6? It’s hard for me to fathom Harris being a better option than Greinke or Cole. You've forgotten the Nats' batting order. Rendon batted before Soto. Kendrick batted after him
Hinch made the pitching change after Soto's AB
|
|
|
|
Post by bearbryant on Aug 14, 2020 16:09:39 GMT -6
I don't think he blew it when he pulled Greinke.... He blew it by not putting in Cole to replace him.... Harris, when he pitched for LSU, and for the Astros, had a penchant for not winning in the most important games Hinch insulted Cole when he had him warm up and then went to Harris. |
|
|
|
Post by batman007 on Aug 14, 2020 16:10:12 GMT -6
It's really unfair to compare their batting stats when one has 10x more plate appearances than the other... Well, I think it's safe to say that Greinke is the better all-around athlete. JV might hit better with more plate appearances, but there is no reason to believe he would be as good. There is no reason to believe he wouldn’t be as good. |
|
|
|
Post by bearbryant on Aug 14, 2020 16:13:31 GMT -6
I'm not so sure I would've gone to Cole after Greinke. I would've gone to Urquidy first. He was just as effective the game he pitched in DC, and the Nats looked foolish that night trying to hit the breaking pitch |
|
|
|
Post by blcoach8 on Aug 14, 2020 16:47:16 GMT -6
Hinch insulted Cole when he had him warm up and then went to Harris. you may be right,but, how do we know Cole wasn't told to warm up? |
|
|
|
Post by bearbryant on Aug 14, 2020 17:05:52 GMT -6
That's also incorrect. Cole went to the bullpen of his own volition. No one told him to warm up you may be right,but, how do we know Cole wasn't told to warm up? I can already tell this is going to turn into one of your Glenn Beck how do we know Altuve didn't cheat debates Hinch said in the post-game interview he didn't tell Cole to go warm up
|
|
|
|
Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Aug 14, 2020 19:00:22 GMT -6
I am hoping the Astros get the next Morton in the off season ... I would like to see what Strom could do with Chris Archer and Robbie Ray. Hopefully the Astros can grow the bullpen from within, but we may need a contingency plan for Pressly. He just not dominant as he was pre-injury, he has not rebounded. I sure as shit hope it's better than what he's done with every pitcher on the Astros who wasn't already an elite, HOF-caliber pitcher. |
|
