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Post by blcoach8 on Aug 14, 2020 19:06:25 GMT -6
I am hoping the Astros get the next Morton in the off season ... I would like to see what Strom could do with Chris Archer and Robbie Ray. Hopefully the Astros can grow the bullpen from within, but we may need a contingency plan for Pressly. He just not dominant as he was pre-injury, he has not rebounded. I sure as shit hope it's better than what he's done with every pitcher on the Astros who wasn't already an elite, HOF-caliber pitcher. Morton and Cole were not considered that kind of pitcher when they came to Houston. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Aug 14, 2020 19:49:18 GMT -6
I sure as shit hope it's better than what he's done with every pitcher on the Astros who wasn't already an elite, HOF-caliber pitcher. Morton and Cole were not considered that kind of pitcher when they came to Houston. I remember when Luhnow would constantly talk up on buying low with “low velo” guys with good spin rates. All of a sudden, here came Morton, Verlander, and Cole. I think Strom is a good pitching coach, but I wouldn’t put him with Dave Duncan or Leo Mazzone. The trust that fans place in him is a little off the charts. |
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Post by thomasj13 on Aug 14, 2020 19:51:26 GMT -6
I am hoping the Astros get the next Morton in the off season ... I would like to see what Strom could do with Chris Archer and Robbie Ray. Hopefully the Astros can grow the bullpen from within, but we may need a contingency plan for Pressly. He just not dominant as he was pre-injury, he has not rebounded. I sure as shit hope it's better than what he's done with every pitcher on the Astros who wasn't already an elite, HOF-caliber pitcher. Shut your mouth |
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Post by thomasj13 on Aug 14, 2020 19:51:50 GMT -6
Morton and Cole were not considered that kind of pitcher when they came to Houston. I remember when Luhnow would constantly talk up on buying low with “low velo” guys with good spin rates. All of a sudden, here came Morton, Verlander, and Cole. I think Strom is a good pitching coach, but I wouldn’t put him with Dave Duncan or Leo Mazzone. The trust that fans place in him is a little off the charts. Shut your mouth 2.0 |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Aug 14, 2020 19:54:11 GMT -6
I sure as shit hope it's better than what he's done with every pitcher on the Astros who wasn't already an elite, HOF-caliber pitcher. Morton and Cole were not considered that kind of pitcher when they came to Houston. Cole was an elite pitcher when he got here (contender for CY in Pitt). Morton was an acorn found by a blind hog. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Aug 14, 2020 20:00:55 GMT -6
I remember when Luhnow would constantly talk up on buying low with “low velo” guys with good spin rates. All of a sudden, here came Morton, Verlander, and Cole. I think Strom is a good pitching coach, but I wouldn’t put him with Dave Duncan or Leo Mazzone. The trust that fans place in him is a little off the charts. Shut your mouth 2.0 Search your feelings, young Skywalker. You know this to be true. |
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Post by thomasj13 on Aug 14, 2020 20:16:27 GMT -6
Search your feelings, young Skywalker. You know this to be true. That's Not True. That's Impossible. |
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Post by Saint on Aug 14, 2020 20:47:13 GMT -6
Cole was a good pitcher we made better. Morton was a WTF was that?
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Post by unionstation82 on Aug 14, 2020 21:17:42 GMT -6
Cole was a good pitcher we made better. Morton was a WTF was that? And they cut Morton loose at the right time. |
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Post by abregmanfan on Aug 14, 2020 21:45:12 GMT -6
I am hoping the Astros get the next Morton in the off season ... I would like to see what Strom could do with Chris Archer and Robbie Ray. Hopefully the Astros can grow the bullpen from within, but we may need a contingency plan for Pressly. He just not dominant as he was pre-injury, he has not rebounded. I sure as shit hope it's better than what he's done with every pitcher on the Astros who wasn't already an elite, HOF-caliber pitcher. Morton was never an elite, HOF-caliber pitcher before he got here. |
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Post by abregmanfan on Aug 14, 2020 21:45:57 GMT -6
#Stromfather2020.
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Post by blcoach8 on Aug 14, 2020 22:45:22 GMT -6
Morton and Cole were not considered that kind of pitcher when they came to Houston. Cole was an elite pitcher when he got here (contender for CY in Pitt). Morton was an acorn found by a blind hog. Cole was never as good at Pittsburgh as he was last year. Morton never came close to being as good anywhere else as he was here. He took what the "blind hog" taught him and stayed good with the Rays and contended for the Cy Young after we foolishly let him walk. |
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Post by bearbryant on Aug 15, 2020 1:59:49 GMT -6
Cole was a good pitcher we made better. Morton was a WTF was that? Totally. Folks forget that Morton had an oblique strain that season, which is so easy to go from mild to severe with his corkscrew windup and injury history How he went from that to being a postseason hero seems like it couldnt've happened without a little fairy dust
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Post by Hunter McCormick on Aug 15, 2020 9:23:39 GMT -6
I would definitely take JV over Greinke and most other pitchers if I had to win one game. On that note, who do you guys think is the most over-rated starting pitcher in the game? I rather dislike discussions based on 'overrated'. They tend to be negative. He's retired now, but I've thought CC Sabathia was overrated for a long long time. He had a very good prime, but he was mostly only an average or even below-average pitcher for the majority of his career. I disagree with the 'majority of his career' assessment. From his age 20 season through his age 31 season, Sabathia was every bit as good as Verlander, through Justin's age 31 season. And definitely better than Greinke through Zack's age 31 season. Like Verlander, he had elite skills and went deep into games. It's what happened in CC's age 32 through age 38 seasons (the lesser length of his career) that sets them apart. Like so many other pitchers, his performance dropped dramatically. The last seven years of his career were not good. They varied from slightly above average to poor. In contrast, Verlander and Greinke have been excellent from age 32 to present. Rather than participate in the 'overrated' discussion, I will say Sabathia was overpaid from age 32 onward.
Regarding the original topic, Verlander vs. Greinke ... yes, Zack's gold glove and silver slugger awards are rather nice. And his ERA has been great. But he doesn't go deep into games the way Verlander can. In my opinion, a pitcher's defense and batting abilities are ancillary. Verlander is clearly a better starting pitcher because of his ability to go deep into games. Given the choice, I would choose Verlander and not give it a second thought, regardless of which league. However, Greinke would still be considered the ace of the staff on many MLB teams. The fact the Astros can afford to have both of them at the same time is a blessing. And the Astros aren't on the hook for their salaries past the end of next season. |
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