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Post by blcoach8 on Aug 11, 2021 9:13:13 GMT -6
Are we talking AAV, contracted years or both? Which one of the two, AAV or contracted years, is the value difference between the two part of the most vast? I don't think the Astros will go over 6 years and $180 million. I think CC will be wanting a minimum of 8 years and $200+. Monetarily the 6 years at $180 is a better deal for both parties. I don't think we give him 8 years, and, if we would, he would want about $240 million. |
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Post by thomasj13 on Aug 11, 2021 9:14:03 GMT -6
This is his contract year, seemingly the best it's going to ever be; and for a while, he was looking elite. Now, he has had a big stretch of being below average at the plate. Olpapa had a point, Altuve production warranted a great pay raise. Carlos past production is not near as good as Altuve, so it's being based on potential? Do you greatly overpay based on potential as opposed to previous production? if he doesn't get back to the level of production we saw before this strange "sickness" they said he had, he probably needs to lower his contract demands, but, don't expect his agent to go for it. The choice the Astros have to make is whether they give Correa enough to keep him or end up with a SS that is not close to his level defensively nor capable of being a better run producer. He has proven to be clutch in September and the post-season. If he can do that again, he will get close to what he wants. We have nobody in our farm system to replace him. Guys like Baez and Story will be available, but, neither is as good as Correa. We all know his ceiling and ability is so extremely high, but is he really someone you want to hitch your wagon to for the long ride? He is inconsistent and injury prone. Like a hot girl, fun to go out with and who is good in the sack, but at the same time she is temperamental and her family has issues; do you think you should marry her? |
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Post by blcoach8 on Aug 11, 2021 9:21:11 GMT -6
if he doesn't get back to the level of production we saw before this strange "sickness" they said he had, he probably needs to lower his contract demands, but, don't expect his agent to go for it. The choice the Astros have to make is whether they give Correa enough to keep him or end up with a SS that is not close to his level defensively nor capable of being a better run producer. He has proven to be clutch in September and the post-season. If he can do that again, he will get close to what he wants. We have nobody in our farm system to replace him. Guys like Baez and Story will be available, but, neither is as good as Correa. We all know his ceiling and ability is so extremely high, but is he really someone you want to hitch your wagon to for the long ride? He is inconsistent and injury prone. Like a hot girl, fun to go out with and who is good in the sack, but at the same time she is temperamental and her family has issues; do you think you should marry her? We have to decide if we want to take the chance on him playing to the level of his ability or going with someone who doesn't have his capabilities. There is no equal to him with the glove at SS and he has the best arm of the lot. He has not been as prone to injury lately as he was earlier. They all have in-season slumps, but, the one he is in now has lasted longer than normal. It is a gamble either way we go. As far as options, Semien would be a good pickup and would be cheaper than Carlos. |
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Post by thomasj13 on Aug 11, 2021 9:29:44 GMT -6
We all know his ceiling and ability is so extremely high, but is he really someone you want to hitch your wagon to for the long ride? He is inconsistent and injury prone. Like a hot girl, fun to go out with and who is good in the sack, but at the same time she is temperamental and her family has issues; do you think you should marry her? We have to decide if we want to take the chance on him playing to the level of his ability or going with someone who doesn't have his capabilities. There is no equal to him with the glove at SS and he has the best arm of the lot. He has not been as prone to injury lately as he was earlier. They all have in-season slumps, but, the one he is in now has lasted longer than normal. It is a gamble either way we go. As far as options, Semien would be a good pickup and would be cheaper than Carlos. I like Crawford too...Carlos is a huge gamble. |
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Post by Saint on Aug 11, 2021 9:30:02 GMT -6
I'm not sure Correa's ceiling is any higher than we've seen. It's been several years now. He can have some really nice hot streaks like Springer, but I think he's proven that he can't maintain it for a full season. I don't think he will show better than we have seen this year.
So basically, do you think what he has done this year is worth $30 or more million a year for several years?
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Post by olpapa on Aug 11, 2021 10:32:12 GMT -6
I'm not sure Correa's ceiling is any higher than we've seen. It's been several years now. He can have some really nice hot streaks like Springer, but I think he's proven that he can't maintain it for a full season. I don't think he will show better than we have seen this year. So basically, do you think what he has done this year is worth $30 or more million a year for several years? I agree with you and no, I do not think what he has done this year is worth $30 or more million a year for several years. |
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Post by olpapa on Aug 11, 2021 10:57:07 GMT -6
No way would I offer Correa a dime over $151 million or a day over 5 years. When Altuve signed his extension in March 2018 he was coming off an incredible 4-year run in which he won an MVP award, 4 silver slugger awards, a gold glove, made 4 all-star teams and accumulated 25.1 WAR. At the time he signed his extension he was already signed for the 2018 and 2019 seasons. His extension added 5 years to his deal. He was paid a $21 million bonus for years 2018-2019 plus $26 million per year for years 2020-2024. Basically he signed a deal that paid him $151 million for an additional 5 years. Correa has done nothing that comes close to what Altuve has accomplished yet he apparently thinks he is entitled to be paid more than Altuve. If he won’t sign for 5 years $151 million or less, piss on him. By the way, have any of you been paying attention to the year our old nemesis Marcus Semien is having for Toronto? His numbers put Correa in the shade. Semien will be a free agent next season. I know he is 31 years old, but I would sign him to a 3 year deal in a heartbeat. But do you think he can maintain it past this year? He had a really good year before and then immediately pulled a Marwin. I don’t know if Semien can maintain his performance past this year, but I’d be willing to take the chance that he can on a 3 year deal in the $20 - $25 million per year range as opposed to paying Carlos the over $30 million per year for 8 - 10 years he apparently is seeking. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Aug 11, 2021 11:04:51 GMT -6
We have to decide if we want to take the chance on him playing to the level of his ability or going with someone who doesn't have his capabilities. There is no equal to him with the glove at SS and he has the best arm of the lot. He has not been as prone to injury lately as he was earlier. They all have in-season slumps, but, the one he is in now has lasted longer than normal. It is a gamble either way we go. As far as options, Semien would be a good pickup and would be cheaper than Carlos. I like Crawford too...Carlos is a huge gamble. Correa is also 7 years younger than Crawford and 4 years younger than Semien. I agree that Carlos is a gamble, but, all of them are gambles to a certain degree. We don't know that Crawford or Semien can approach the numbers they are putting up right now. We DO know that Carlos is the best defender in the group. |
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Post by olpapa on Aug 11, 2021 11:04:52 GMT -6
We all know his ceiling and ability is so extremely high, but is he really someone you want to hitch your wagon to for the long ride? He is inconsistent and injury prone. Like a hot girl, fun to go out with and who is good in the sack, but at the same time she is temperamental and her family has issues; do you think you should marry her? We have to decide if we want to take the chance on him playing to the level of his ability or going with someone who doesn't have his capabilities. There is no equal to him with the glove at SS and he has the best arm of the lot. He has not been as prone to injury lately as he was earlier. They all have in-season slumps, but, the one he is in now has lasted longer than normal. It is a gamble either way we go. As far as options, Semien would be a good pickup and would be cheaper than Carlos. Semien is a gamer. I always hated him when he played for Oakland. Seemed like he was always dealing the Astros misery. His postseason numbers for his career are good. I think he would fit right in with the Astros. If we could get him on a 3 year deal, it would give guys like Pena and possibly Nova time to develop and be ready to step in when he leaves. We also have a guy by the name of Whitcomb at High A who shows some promise. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Aug 11, 2021 11:06:51 GMT -6
But do you think he can maintain it past this year? He had a really good year before and then immediately pulled a Marwin. I don’t know if Semien can maintain his performance past this year, but I’d be willing to take the chance that he can on a 3 year deal in the $20 - $25 million per year range as opposed to paying Carlos the over $30 million per year for 8 - 10 years he apparently is seeking. I would definitely not offer Carlos a contract for more than six years unless he would take around $25 million a year and he won't take that. I"d go up to 6yrs/$180 million. If he declines, move on to Semien or Crawford. I don't want Baez. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Aug 11, 2021 11:08:05 GMT -6
We have to decide if we want to take the chance on him playing to the level of his ability or going with someone who doesn't have his capabilities. There is no equal to him with the glove at SS and he has the best arm of the lot. He has not been as prone to injury lately as he was earlier. They all have in-season slumps, but, the one he is in now has lasted longer than normal. It is a gamble either way we go. As far as options, Semien would be a good pickup and would be cheaper than Carlos. Semien is a gamer. I always hated him when he played for Oakland. Seemed like he was always dealing the Astros misery. His postseason numbers for his career are good. I think he would fit right in with the Astros. If we could get him on a 3 year deal, it would give guys like Pena and possibly Nova time to develop and be ready to step in when he leaves. We also have a guy by the name of Whitcomb at High A who shows some promise. It could also give us more money to strengthen the rotation or go after another top bat. I want to be sure we get Tucker extended at the proper time. |
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Post by olpapa on Aug 11, 2021 11:20:49 GMT -6
Semien is a gamer. I always hated him when he played for Oakland. Seemed like he was always dealing the Astros misery. His postseason numbers for his career are good. I think he would fit right in with the Astros. If we could get him on a 3 year deal, it would give guys like Pena and possibly Nova time to develop and be ready to step in when he leaves. We also have a guy by the name of Whitcomb at High A who shows some promise. It could also give us more money to strengthen the rotation or go after another top bat. I want to be sure we get Tucker extended at the proper time. The Astros need to extend Graveman beyond this season too. |
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Post by Saint on Aug 11, 2021 11:55:57 GMT -6
But do you think he can maintain it past this year? He had a really good year before and then immediately pulled a Marwin. I don’t know if Semien can maintain his performance past this year, but I’d be willing to take the chance that he can on a 3 year deal in the $20 - $25 million per year range as opposed to paying Carlos the over $30 million per year for 8 - 10 years he apparently is seeking. I would agree with that. Although I think Semien will get a 4-5 year deal at this rate. Especially with Storey struggling, Seager having ongoing health concerns, Baez being overrated, and Correa being good but not great. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Aug 11, 2021 12:01:00 GMT -6
If Correa doesn't play to his ability, his ability is worthless.
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Post by thomasj13 on Aug 11, 2021 12:01:22 GMT -6
I don’t know if Semien can maintain his performance past this year, but I’d be willing to take the chance that he can on a 3 year deal in the $20 - $25 million per year range as opposed to paying Carlos the over $30 million per year for 8 - 10 years he apparently is seeking. I would agree with that. Although I think Semien will get a 4-5 year deal at this rate. Especially with Storey struggling, Seager having ongoing health concerns, Baez being overrated, and Correa being good but not great. Does anyone like Crawford? Given his age, 2 year deal with 3rd option might be all that is necessary |
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Post by Saint on Aug 11, 2021 12:18:18 GMT -6
I would agree with that. Although I think Semien will get a 4-5 year deal at this rate. Especially with Storey struggling, Seager having ongoing health concerns, Baez being overrated, and Correa being good but not great. Does anyone like Crawford? Given his age, 2 year deal with 3rd option might be all that is necessary If we upgrade in other areas, sure. |
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Post by abregmanfan on Aug 11, 2021 13:25:42 GMT -6
I am on the so long train when it comes to Correa.
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Post by olpapa on Aug 11, 2021 13:35:08 GMT -6
I don’t know if Semien can maintain his performance past this year, but I’d be willing to take the chance that he can on a 3 year deal in the $20 - $25 million per year range as opposed to paying Carlos the over $30 million per year for 8 - 10 years he apparently is seeking. I would agree with that. Although I think Semien will get a 4-5 year deal at this rate. Especially with Storey struggling, Seager having ongoing health concerns, Baez being overrated, and Correa being good but not great. Semien will be 31 next season. Would you offer him a 4-year deal? |
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Post by Saint on Aug 11, 2021 13:56:07 GMT -6
I would agree with that. Although I think Semien will get a 4-5 year deal at this rate. Especially with Storey struggling, Seager having ongoing health concerns, Baez being overrated, and Correa being good but not great. Semien will be 31 next season. Would you offer him a 4-year deal? Would I? Depends on the contract structure. I'd certainly be open to a 3-year with a 4th year option based on incentives met. But teams do a lot of stuff I wouldn't do. I can see a win-now team desperate for a SS or 2B overpaying/more years than I would. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Aug 11, 2021 15:24:15 GMT -6
If Correa doesn't play to his ability, his ability is worthless. Several of them fit that description. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Aug 11, 2021 15:28:13 GMT -6
I am on the so long train when it comes to Correa. I am about ready to get on that train when it comes to Bregman. He showed up to ST with leg issues and they are still there. We keep hearing "he will be back soon". When "soon" arrives, he "needs more rehab". That crap is getting old. At this rate, don't bother with him until the September call ups. We are getting along just fine with Diaz. Let little Alex take all the time he needs. Letting Correa walk would be a mistake. Do you really think the draft pick we'd get if he signs elsewhere would be enough? NO. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Aug 11, 2021 15:29:32 GMT -6
I would agree with that. Although I think Semien will get a 4-5 year deal at this rate. Especially with Storey struggling, Seager having ongoing health concerns, Baez being overrated, and Correa being good but not great. Semien will be 31 next season. Would you offer him a 4-year deal? Three would be all I would do, and, offer him no more than $20 million per year. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Aug 11, 2021 15:51:50 GMT -6
If Correa doesn't play to his ability, his ability is worthless. Several of them fit that description. But only Carlos is asking for 300,000,000 |
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Post by unionstation82 on Aug 11, 2021 15:53:59 GMT -6
The thing I’m worried about with Correa is what happens when the defense declines? However, you can’t deny that age is a factor when assessing his value compared to the rest. Semien is an intriguing but older option.
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Aug 11, 2021 15:54:09 GMT -6
I am on the so long train when it comes to Correa. I am about ready to get on that train when it comes to Bregman. He showed up to ST with leg issues and they are still there. We keep hearing "he will be back soon". When "soon" arrives, he "needs more rehab". That crap is getting old. At this rate, don't bother with him until the September call ups. We are getting along just fine with Diaz. Let little Alex take all the time he needs. Letting Correa walk would be a mistake. Do you really think the draft pick we'd get if he signs elsewhere would be enough? NO. You have been on that train since he bleached his hair. |
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Post by abregmanfan on Aug 11, 2021 15:55:43 GMT -6
I am on the so long train when it comes to Correa. I am about ready to get on that train when it comes to Bregman. He showed up to ST with leg issues and they are still there. We keep hearing "he will be back soon". When "soon" arrives, he "needs more rehab". That crap is getting old. At this rate, don't bother with him until the September call ups. We are getting along just fine with Diaz. Let little Alex take all the time he needs. Letting Correa walk would be a mistake. Do you really think the draft pick we'd get if he signs elsewhere would be enough? NO. Maybe we should get Jake to play third since he is so much better than Alex. |
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Post by abregmanfan on Aug 11, 2021 15:57:06 GMT -6
Several of them fit that description. But only Carlos is asking for 300,000,000 I like Carlos. My reasoning for not wanting to give him a big contract is about the money. No way he will live up to whatever huge contract we give him. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Aug 11, 2021 16:07:33 GMT -6
Several of them fit that description. But only Carlos is asking for 300,000,000 A lot of them ask for more than they will take and for more than they know they can get. If he actually wants or thinks he can get that much, he's nuts unless some team is stupid enough to give it to him. They need to see how Lindor has done since the Mets piled all that money on him. He can get $30 million a year, but, I would not offer him or anyone else a 10 year deal. Every team that has handed out that kind of contract has been stuck paying these guys after they're gone. |
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Post by abregmanfan on Aug 11, 2021 16:08:50 GMT -6
But only Carlos is asking for 300,000,000 A lot of them ask for more than they will take and for more than they know they can get. If he actually wants or thinks he can get that much, he's nuts unless some team is stupid enough to give it to him. They need to see how Lindor has done since the Mets piled all that money on him. He can get $30 million a year, but, I would not offer him or anyone else a 10 year deal. Every team that has handed out that kind of contract has been stuck paying these guys after they're gone. If you were the general manager and had to make Carlos one offer, what would it be? |
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Post by thomasj13 on Aug 11, 2021 16:08:56 GMT -6
But only Carlos is asking for 300,000,000 I like Carlos. My reasoning for not wanting to give him a big contract is about the money. No way he will live up to whatever huge contract we give him. I definitely agree. If they're going to pay him big money, it has to be for a short period of time. In a shorten obligation, it's a better chance of him living up to at least a portion of the money. As opposed several years from now, his contract is just a huge anchor to the team. |
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