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Post by Saint on Nov 1, 2018 15:20:50 GMT -6
It's not overpaying if you need good starting pitching.
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Post by blcoach8 on Nov 1, 2018 15:29:11 GMT -6
It's not overpaying if you need good starting pitching. The Keuchel of 2015 is worth that type of contract, but, today's version should not get it but probably will or something very close. After what happened with Arrieta and some others last off-season, Keuchel may have to settle for less than Boras wants. |
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Post by Saint on Nov 1, 2018 15:39:58 GMT -6
It's not overpaying if you need good starting pitching. The Keuchel of 2015 is worth that type of contract, but, today's version should not get it but probably will or something very close. After what happened with Arrieta and some others last off-season, Keuchel may have to settle for less than Boras wants. I've never heard of a team that only looked at the previous year when determining value of a pitcher. Just last season he had an ERA under 3.00. Add that with what he did this year (and his reputation of success in the postseason), and he is certainly worth that type of contract in relation to what other pitchers have been getting. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Nov 1, 2018 16:11:05 GMT -6
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Post by blcoach8 on Nov 1, 2018 16:50:08 GMT -6
Don't waste money on Harris. We have other needs. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Nov 1, 2018 18:47:47 GMT -6
It's not overpaying if you need good starting pitching. Sure it is. Keuchel will be overpaid because of 2015 and because he’s a lefty. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Nov 1, 2018 19:14:10 GMT -6
It's not overpaying if you need good starting pitching. Sure it is. Keuchel will be overpaid because of 2015 and because he’s a lefty. Exactly. I expect him to get a QO from us but nothing close to what he wants. He isn't worth over $15-16 million to us and I doubt we would go that high. |
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Post by Saint on Nov 2, 2018 6:59:08 GMT -6
It's not overpaying if you need good starting pitching. Sure it is. Keuchel will be overpaid because of 2015 and because he’s a lefty. You and Coach seem more stuck on 2015 than anybody else. 🤣 |
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Post by blcoach8 on Nov 2, 2018 8:00:48 GMT -6
Sure it is. Keuchel will be overpaid because of 2015 and because he’s a lefty. You and Coach seem more stuck on 2015 than anybody else. 🤣 I can't speak for unionstation, but, you seem to be the one who thinks keuchel should be paid in 2019 based on what he did in 2015 while ignoring his mediocre production in the years in between. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Nov 2, 2018 9:55:35 GMT -6
Sure it is. Keuchel will be overpaid because of 2015 and because he’s a lefty. You and Coach seem more stuck on 2015 than anybody else. 🤣 So, you don’t think Keuchel or his agent will throw that season out there at the bargaining table? |
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Post by unionstation82 on Nov 2, 2018 10:01:41 GMT -6
Let me reiterate for the umpteenth time that I don’t hate Dallas Keuchel and that I wish him the best out there in free agency. I just don’t buy into the “bad luck hits” excuse, and I feel that a lot of his game is influenced on hoping batters swing out of the zone and favorable umpires despite being a contact needy pitcher. It’s a strategy that I think isn’t conducive to consistent effectiveness. He’s going to want to be paid like a #1 or #2 but likely will perform like a #3 or #4.
Wherever he goes, I just hope he has a rangy defense behind him.
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Post by thomasj13 on Nov 2, 2018 10:50:37 GMT -6
Let me reiterate for the umpteenth time that I don’t hate Dallas Keuchel and that I wish him the best out there in free agency. I just don’t buy into the “bad luck hits” excuse, and I feel that a lot of his game is influenced on hoping batters swing out of the zone and favorable umpires despite being a contact needy pitcher. It’s a strategy that I think isn’t conducive to consistent effectiveness. He’s going to want to be paid like a #1 or #2 but likely will perform like a #3 or #4. Wherever he goes, I just hope he has a rangy defense behind him. I am actually wanting Keuchel to take the QO....I think the Astros would benefit with having him pitch 200 innings....I am hoping they can rest Verlander and Cole more....but I do think Keuchel will take it, a 1 year deal for $18M, nope...no way... He and his agent should be looking for someone to pay him 5 year/$100M deal...and I really hope it is the Angels that pony up....So they stay in big, burdensome contract hell...and really restrict them on what other needed moves they can make... I do think the Keuchel if he pitched for another team, he would make us miss him....at least for a year or two....but in the long run, we will be thinking we dodge that contract bullet. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Nov 2, 2018 10:54:06 GMT -6
Let me reiterate for the umpteenth time that I don’t hate Dallas Keuchel and that I wish him the best out there in free agency. I just don’t buy into the “bad luck hits” excuse, and I feel that a lot of his game is influenced on hoping batters swing out of the zone and favorable umpires despite being a contact needy pitcher. It’s a strategy that I think isn’t conducive to consistent effectiveness. He’s going to want to be paid like a #1 or #2 but likely will perform like a #3 or #4. Wherever he goes, I just hope he has a rangy defense behind him. I am actually wanting Keuchel to take the QO....I think the Astros would benefit with having him pitch 200 innings....I am hoping they can rest Verlander and Cole more....but I do think Keuchel will take it, a 1 year deal for $18M, nope...no way... He and his agent should be looking for someone to pay him 5 year/$100M deal...and I really hope it is the Angels that pony up....So they stay in big, burdensome contract hell...and really restrict them on what other needed moves they can make... I do think the Keuchel if he pitched for another team, he would make us miss him....at least for a year or two....but in the long run, we will be thinking we dodge that contract bullet. The Astros have way too many fish to fry in terms of long term contract offers. This season is on Correa to step up the way Bregman has done. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Nov 2, 2018 11:14:49 GMT -6
Let me reiterate for the umpteenth time that I don’t hate Dallas Keuchel and that I wish him the best out there in free agency. I just don’t buy into the “bad luck hits” excuse, and I feel that a lot of his game is influenced on hoping batters swing out of the zone and favorable umpires despite being a contact needy pitcher. It’s a strategy that I think isn’t conducive to consistent effectiveness. He’s going to want to be paid like a #1 or #2 but likely will perform like a #3 or #4. Wherever he goes, I just hope he has a rangy defense behind him. I am actually wanting Keuchel to take the QO....I think the Astros would benefit with having him pitch 200 innings....I am hoping they can rest Verlander and Cole more....but I do think Keuchel will take it, a 1 year deal for $18M, nope...no way... He and his agent should be looking for someone to pay him 5 year/$100M deal...and I really hope it is the Angels that pony up....So they stay in big, burdensome contract hell...and really restrict them on what other needed moves they can make... I do think the Keuchel if he pitched for another team, he would make us miss him....at least for a year or two....but in the long run, we will be thinking we dodge that contract bullet. A lot of what Keuchel will be able to accomplish should depend on the team, the pitching coach, and the home field. I think we make him the QO, but, the only way he signs it is if he simply wants to stay in Houston and likes the make up of the club. Verlander could be an influence to get him to re-sign. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Nov 2, 2018 11:16:53 GMT -6
I am actually wanting Keuchel to take the QO....I think the Astros would benefit with having him pitch 200 innings....I am hoping they can rest Verlander and Cole more....but I do think Keuchel will take it, a 1 year deal for $18M, nope...no way... He and his agent should be looking for someone to pay him 5 year/$100M deal...and I really hope it is the Angels that pony up....So they stay in big, burdensome contract hell...and really restrict them on what other needed moves they can make... I do think the Keuchel if he pitched for another team, he would make us miss him....at least for a year or two....but in the long run, we will be thinking we dodge that contract bullet. The Astros have way too many fish to fry in terms of long term contract offers. This season is on Correa to step up the way Bregman has done. We need to get Springer extended before worrying about Correa. Correa needs to prove he can stay healthy and produce. We know what he is capable of since he did it in 2017. Let's hope we see that version in 2019. |
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Post by Saint on Nov 2, 2018 12:00:51 GMT -6
You and Coach seem more stuck on 2015 than anybody else. 🤣 So, you don’t think Keuchel or his agent will throw that season out there at the bargaining table? I think they'll throw out his whole body of work over the last several years at the bargaining table. |
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Post by Saint on Nov 2, 2018 12:08:48 GMT -6
As far as Harris goes (from mlbtraderumors.com:
"The 34-year-old Harris still seems like a safe bet to return to the ’Stros in 2019 — albeit at a lower rate. Like Collin McHugh before him, Harris was a scrapheap pickup off the waiver wire who found great success upon landing in Houston. In four seasons with the Astros, he’s pitched to a 2.58 ERA in 237 innings and averaged 9.6 K/9 against 2.2 BB/9 along the way.
His performance took a step backward in 2018, though looking past his still-solid 3.49 ERA, Harris’ 10.2 K/9, 2.2 BB/9, 0.48 HR/9, 49.7 percent ground-ball rate, 13.8 percent swinging-strike rate and 34.6 percent chase rate on out-of-zone pitches were all legitimately excellent."
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Post by Saint on Nov 2, 2018 12:10:17 GMT -6
Let me reiterate for the umpteenth time that I don’t hate Dallas Keuchel and that I wish him the best out there in free agency. I just don’t buy into the “bad luck hits” excuse, and I feel that a lot of his game is influenced on hoping batters swing out of the zone and favorable umpires despite being a contact needy pitcher. It’s a strategy that I think isn’t conducive to consistent effectiveness. He’s going to want to be paid like a #1 or #2 but likely will perform like a #3 or #4. Wherever he goes, I just hope he has a rangy defense behind him. "I just don’t buy into the “bad luck hits” excuse, and I feel that a lot of his game is influenced on hoping batters swing out of the zone and favorable umpires despite being a contact needy pitcher. It’s a strategy that I think isn’t conducive to consistent effectiveness." But it has. For multiple seasons and postseasons now. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Nov 2, 2018 12:42:39 GMT -6
So, you don’t think Keuchel or his agent will throw that season out there at the bargaining table? I think they'll throw out his whole body of work over the last several years at the bargaining table. Apparently, some of the people on mlbnetwork agree with you. Harold Reynoids said of all the free agent starting pitchers that Keuchel was most likely to get a 5-year, $125 million dollar deal. If that happens, it shows that some team has a lot of money to spend on Keuchel that could be better spent on other needs. I am glad to know that we would not give him anything close to this. |
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Post by Saint on Nov 2, 2018 12:47:15 GMT -6
I think they'll throw out his whole body of work over the last several years at the bargaining table. Apparently, some of the people on mlbnetwork agree with you. Harold Reynoids said of all the free agent starting pitchers that Keuchel was most likely to get a 5-year, $125 million dollar deal. If that happens, it shows that some team has a lot of money to spend on Keuchel that could be better spent on other needs. I am glad to know that we would not give him anything close to this. I think 5-years $125 is way too high. I'd be amazed if he got more than $100 with any combination of years. You never know though. Some contending teams are desperate for healthy proven starting pitching. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Nov 2, 2018 13:13:54 GMT -6
Apparently, some of the people on mlbnetwork agree with you. Harold Reynoids said of all the free agent starting pitchers that Keuchel was most likely to get a 5-year, $125 million dollar deal. If that happens, it shows that some team has a lot of money to spend on Keuchel that could be better spent on other needs. I am glad to know that we would not give him anything close to this. I think 5-years $125 is way too high. I'd be amazed if he got more than $100 with any combination of years. You never know though. Some contending teams are desperate for healthy proven starting pitching. way too high for us. Don't be surprised if the Yankees or some other large market team gives it to him. I will predict right now that he wears Yankee pinstripes next season. We need to be concentrating on signing Morton and Marwin. I think they should make a pitch for Eovaldi, too. However, I think Boston is willing to pay him a lot after his playoff performance. |
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Post by abregmanfan on Nov 2, 2018 14:35:15 GMT -6
I think 5-years $125 is way too high. I'd be amazed if he got more than $100 with any combination of years. You never know though. Some contending teams are desperate for healthy proven starting pitching. way too high for us. Don't be surprised if the Yankees or some other large market team gives it to him. I will predict right now that he wears Yankee pinstripes next season. We need to be concentrating on signing Morton and Marwin. I think they should make a pitch for Eovaldi, too. However, I think Boston is willing to pay him a lot after his playoff performance. Morton imo is a must. |
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Post by Saint on Nov 2, 2018 14:37:36 GMT -6
way too high for us. Don't be surprised if the Yankees or some other large market team gives it to him. I will predict right now that he wears Yankee pinstripes next season. We need to be concentrating on signing Morton and Marwin. I think they should make a pitch for Eovaldi, too. However, I think Boston is willing to pay him a lot after his playoff performance. Morton imo is a must. I wouldn't say Morton is a must at his age, but we do need to get somebody. No reason to NOT get Morton if he's willing to be fair. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Nov 2, 2018 14:42:11 GMT -6
I think they'll throw out his whole body of work over the last several years at the bargaining table. Apparently, some of the people on mlbnetwork agree with you. Harold Reynoids said of all the free agent starting pitchers that Keuchel was most likely to get a 5-year, $125 million dollar deal. If that happens, it shows that some team has a lot of money to spend on Keuchel that could be better spent on other needs. I am glad to know that we would not give him anything close to this. Lord. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Nov 2, 2018 14:44:38 GMT -6
Let me reiterate for the umpteenth time that I don’t hate Dallas Keuchel and that I wish him the best out there in free agency. I just don’t buy into the “bad luck hits” excuse, and I feel that a lot of his game is influenced on hoping batters swing out of the zone and favorable umpires despite being a contact needy pitcher. It’s a strategy that I think isn’t conducive to consistent effectiveness. He’s going to want to be paid like a #1 or #2 but likely will perform like a #3 or #4. Wherever he goes, I just hope he has a rangy defense behind him. "I just don’t buy into the “bad luck hits” excuse, and I feel that a lot of his game is influenced on hoping batters swing out of the zone and favorable umpires despite being a contact needy pitcher. It’s a strategy that I think isn’t conducive to consistent effectiveness." But it has. For multiple seasons and postseasons now. For his sake, I hope he plays with a showstopper defense behind him. He’s good enough at what he does to get a deal elsewhere. I just think $25 million a year is better for some other dumb general manager to offer. |
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Post by Saint on Nov 2, 2018 14:48:39 GMT -6
"I just don’t buy into the “bad luck hits” excuse, and I feel that a lot of his game is influenced on hoping batters swing out of the zone and favorable umpires despite being a contact needy pitcher. It’s a strategy that I think isn’t conducive to consistent effectiveness." But it has. For multiple seasons and postseasons now. For his sake, I hope he plays with a showstopper defense behind him. He’s good enough at what he does to get a deal elsewhere. I just think $25 million a year is better for some other dumb general manager to offer. I don't think he's worth $25 million either unless it was three or less years. I felt like an Arrieta-style deal was his ceiling. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Nov 2, 2018 15:24:58 GMT -6
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Post by bearbryant on Nov 2, 2018 16:47:48 GMT -6
Let me reiterate for the umpteenth time that I don’t hate Dallas Keuchel and that I wish him the best out there in free agency. I just don’t buy into the “bad luck hits” excuse, and I feel that a lot of his game is influenced on hoping batters swing out of the zone and favorable umpires despite being a contact needy pitcher. It’s a strategy that I think isn’t conducive to consistent effectiveness. He’s going to want to be paid like a #1 or #2 but likely will perform like a #3 or #4. Wherever he goes, I just hope he has a rangy defense behind him. I am actually wanting Keuchel to take the QO....I think the Astros would benefit with having him pitch 200 innings.... |
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Post by bearbryant on Nov 2, 2018 16:53:58 GMT -6
As far as Harris goes (from mlbtraderumors.com: "The 34-year-old Harris still seems like a safe bet to return to the ’Stros in 2019 — albeit at a lower rate. Like Collin McHugh before him, Harris was a scrapheap pickup off the waiver wire who found great success upon landing in Houston. In four seasons with the Astros, he’s pitched to a 2.58 ERA in 237 innings and averaged 9.6 K/9 against 2.2 BB/9 along the way. His performance took a step backward in 2018, though looking past his still-solid 3.49 ERA, Harris’ 10.2 K/9, 2.2 BB/9, 0.48 HR/9, 49.7 percent ground-ball rate, 13.8 percent swinging-strike rate and 34.6 percent chase rate on out-of-zone pitches were all legitimately excellent." |
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Post by bearbryant on Nov 2, 2018 17:00:46 GMT -6
You and Coach seem more stuck on 2015 than anybody else. 🤣 I can't speak for unionstation, but, you seem to be the one who thinks keuchel should be paid in 2019 based on what he did in 2015 while ignoring his mediocre production in the years in between. |
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