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Post by unionstation82 on Oct 23, 2018 13:48:52 GMT -6
His overall numbers are great, but what they need is consistency. This is to a lesser extent what we also saw from Giles last year - great overall numbers but MIA in the postseason. White is a good DH if they can’t find anyone better. White had a great ALDS. One bad series in the postseason doesn't seem like enough to keep him from being our primary DH to start the next season. At the moment, my disappointment in Gurriel is a bit greater than that of White. |
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Post by Saint on Oct 23, 2018 13:49:15 GMT -6
We'll see. When 3 out of your last 5 seasons are ERAs under 3.00 (including just last year), you're normally pretty damn good. The guy had a shitty May back in 2016 or else you're looking at 5 above-average seasons in a row with pretty good overall health AND proven success in the postseason. If fans expect more than that.....unreasonable expectations maybe. You make it sound like if Altuve doesn't play like an MVP the next few seasons (but still all-star caliber) that he's not performing well enough.... I look at position players a little differently. Altuve has earned his keep. He does the best he can with competition like Trout, Betts, and Martinez. Keuchel is more forgettable. He’s good but not someone that GM’s would likely trip over themselves to get a chance at acquiring him. I'm just referring to fan expectations. Keuchel was the top player at his position for a season just the way Altuve was last year. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Oct 23, 2018 13:50:41 GMT -6
I look at position players a little differently. Altuve has earned his keep. He does the best he can with competition like Trout, Betts, and Martinez. Keuchel is more forgettable. He’s good but not someone that GM’s would likely trip over themselves to get a chance at acquiring him. I'm just referring to fan expectations. Keuchel was the top player at his position for a season just the way Altuve was last year. If you’re a GM with the money to make a big splash, do you go for Dallas Keuchel? |
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Post by Saint on Oct 23, 2018 13:51:55 GMT -6
White had a great ALDS. One bad series in the postseason doesn't seem like enough to keep him from being our primary DH to start the next season. At the moment, my disappointment in Gurriel is a bit greater than that of White. The positive thing with Gurriel is that his power should come back some this next season. The power decline was expected after his hand injury. If Gurriel can hit .290+ again but with some more HR power, I'm totally good with him. Especially if he can hit well with RISP again. |
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Post by Saint on Oct 23, 2018 13:54:50 GMT -6
I'm just referring to fan expectations. Keuchel was the top player at his position for a season just the way Altuve was last year. If you’re a GM with the money to make a big splash, do you go for Dallas Keuchel? Not if I'm the Astros because I don't/shouldn't spend a ton of money on starting pitching this season. However, if I'm the Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, Mariners, Athletics, Rockies, *insert contending team lacking pitching depth*, then absolutely I do. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Oct 23, 2018 14:00:01 GMT -6
Like I’ve said before, when you established a couple sub-3 ERA seasons and a Cy Young reception, you’ve set the bat at a level where fans expect a little something extra from you. These aren’t unfair expectations. No one is asking him to win a Triple Crown, but no one is also saying he should get a little bit of a pass for Verlander and Cole doing so well by comparison. He is a good pitcher, but he isn’t worth a long term monetary commitment for most teams. In fact, outside of the top five payroll teams, I don’t think he’s worth it. We'll see. When 3 out of your last 5 seasons are ERAs under 3.00 (including just last year), you're normally pretty damn good. Yet I believe you said today or yesterday that you don't think he'll get any frontline offers like a #1 or 2. Didn't you? Or was that someone else? (EDIT: It might have been Catfish) Is a sub 3 ERA back of the rotation, or front of it? |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Oct 23, 2018 14:06:22 GMT -6
At the moment, my disappointment in Gurriel is a bit greater than that of White. The positive thing with Gurriel is that his power should come back some this next season. The power decline was expected after his hand injury. If Gurriel can hit .290+ again but with some more HR power, I'm totally good with him. Especially if he can hit well with RISP again. Really only Sherwin would complain about a player who hit .290 with an OPS of .751 (whose OBP and Slugging were almost exactly the same as his career line .323/.428 vs .323/.449) and an OPS+ 108...and who led the league for nearly the entire season in hitting with RISP. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Oct 23, 2018 14:08:02 GMT -6
If you’re a GM with the money to make a big splash, do you go for Dallas Keuchel? Not if I'm the Astros because I don't/shouldn't spend a ton of money on starting pitching this season. However, if I'm the Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, Mariners, Athletics, Rockies, *insert contending team lacking pitching depth*, then absolutely I do. What are you willing to spend on Dallas, in time and money, if you're those teams? |
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Post by Saint on Oct 23, 2018 15:02:40 GMT -6
We'll see. When 3 out of your last 5 seasons are ERAs under 3.00 (including just last year), you're normally pretty damn good. Yet I believe you said today or yesterday that you don't think he'll get any frontline offers like a #1 or 2. Didn't you? Or was that someone else? (EDIT: It might have been Catfish) Is a sub 3 ERA back of the rotation, or front of it? I don't think he'll get ace money. I think he'll get #2 money. Sub 3 would be front. |
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Post by Saint on Oct 23, 2018 15:03:28 GMT -6
Not if I'm the Astros because I don't/shouldn't spend a ton of money on starting pitching this season. However, if I'm the Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, Mariners, Athletics, Rockies, *insert contending team lacking pitching depth*, then absolutely I do. What are you willing to spend on Dallas, in time and money, if you're those teams? 4 years $75 million. Edit: Or 3 years $60 mil |
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Post by bearbryant on Oct 23, 2018 15:08:10 GMT -6
The positive thing with Gurriel is that his power should come back some this next season. The power decline was expected after his hand injury. If Gurriel can hit .290+ again but with some more HR power, I'm totally good with him. Especially if he can hit well with RISP again. Really only Sherwin would complain about a player who hit .290 with an OPS of .751 (whose OBP and Slugging were almost exactly the same as his career line .323/.428 vs .323/.449) and an OPS+ 108...and who led the league for nearly the entire season in hitting with RISP.  |
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Post by unionstation82 on Oct 23, 2018 16:25:16 GMT -6
The positive thing with Gurriel is that his power should come back some this next season. The power decline was expected after his hand injury. If Gurriel can hit .290+ again but with some more HR power, I'm totally good with him. Especially if he can hit well with RISP again. Really only Sherwin would complain about a player who hit .290 with an OPS of .751 (whose OBP and Slugging were almost exactly the same as his career line .323/.428 vs .323/.449) and an OPS+ 108...and who led the league for nearly the entire season in hitting with RISP. Overall, he did well, but there were stretches where he disappeared at the plate. Hopefully, you can chalk it up to hamate recovery. I can see a bounceback season next year. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Oct 23, 2018 16:26:53 GMT -6
What are you willing to spend on Dallas, in time and money, if you're those teams? 4 years $75 million. Edit: Or 3 years $60 mil I think three years might even be a lot if I were Luhnow. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Oct 23, 2018 16:32:10 GMT -6
4 years $75 million. Edit: Or 3 years $60 mil I think three years might even be a lot if I were Luhnow. Three years is the max I would go and $15-16 million is all he's worth |
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Post by unionstation82 on Oct 23, 2018 16:33:21 GMT -6
I think three years might even be a lot if I were Luhnow. Three years is the max I would go and $15-16 million is all he's worth I agree. I think $20 million a year for Keuchel is foolish. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Oct 23, 2018 16:41:06 GMT -6
Three years is the max I would go and $15-16 million is all he's worth I agree. I think $20 million a year for Keuchel is foolish. more than foolish....it would be throwing money away that could be used to keep Marwin and Morton. I would not be surprised to see the Yankees go after Keuchel. The Brewers could use him. |
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Post by Saint on Oct 23, 2018 16:48:14 GMT -6
Three years is the max I would go and $15-16 million is all he's worth I agree. I think $20 million a year for Keuchel is foolish. Yeah but you haven't liked Keuchel since he didn't repeat in 2016. 😂 |
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Post by unionstation82 on Oct 23, 2018 18:00:02 GMT -6
I agree. I think $20 million a year for Keuchel is foolish. Yeah but you haven't liked Keuchel since he didn't repeat in 2016. 😂 Not really the case. I just think some other team needs all his bad luck on batted balls in play. |
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Post by Saint on Oct 23, 2018 19:03:41 GMT -6
Yeah but you haven't liked Keuchel since he didn't repeat in 2016. 😂 Not really the case. I just think some other team needs all his bad luck on batted balls in play. I'm sure they'll be happy to have a guy with a 3.28 ERA since being a regular in the rotation. |
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Post by bearbryant on Oct 23, 2018 19:20:03 GMT -6
You didn't think White put up effective numbers this year? I’d like to see more from him to feel as if he definitely should be the DH. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Oct 23, 2018 20:06:22 GMT -6
I’d like to see more from him to feel as if he definitely should be the DH. I can’t stand passive AB’s. I appreciate walks and all, but when pitchers give you strikes, you better at least move your bat. No one cares if your job is to drive in the RISP, and you draw a walk without swinging at strikes. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Oct 23, 2018 20:10:36 GMT -6
Not really the case. I just think some other team needs all his bad luck on batted balls in play. I'm sure they'll be happy to have a guy with a 3.28 ERA since being a regular in the rotation. Not at freaking $20 million per. |
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Post by Saint on Oct 23, 2018 20:12:26 GMT -6
I'm sure they'll be happy to have a guy with a 3.28 ERA since being a regular in the rotation. Not at freaking $20 million per. Have you seen some of the contracts healthy starting pitchers get?? Look at Alex Cobb or Arrieta. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2018 20:12:56 GMT -6
We'll see. When 3 out of your last 5 seasons are ERAs under 3.00 (including just last year), you're normally pretty damn good. Yet I believe you said today or yesterday that you don't think he'll get any frontline offers like a #1 or 2. Didn't you? Or was that someone else? (EDIT: It might have been Catfish) Is a sub 3 ERA back of the rotation, or front of it? That was me. Seriatim is kind of subjective I guess. Depending on Whitley's progress, Kuechel might be a #4 of he is signed. OTOH, he might be #1 in Baltimore. What I am getting at, is 2015 is a long ago memory, and based on trend line analysis, I don't see him commanding anywhere near $20M/annually |
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Post by Saint on Oct 23, 2018 20:16:43 GMT -6
Alex Cobb: 4-year $57 million
Jake Arrieta: 3-year $75 million (2 team options also)
I think we all agree Keuchel falls in between those two guys before 2018. And you don't think he can get up to $20 million a year on a short contract? Especially when starting pitcher free agents aren't great this off-season.
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Post by blcoach8 on Oct 23, 2018 21:48:36 GMT -6
I agree. I think $20 million a year for Keuchel is foolish. Yeah but you haven't liked Keuchel since he didn't repeat in 2016. 😂 Keuckel started falling from grace in my book when he attack the front office for not making deals at the trade deadline in 2017. Tr ue, I didn't like that Liriano and Clippard was all we got, but, it was not Keuchel's place to run his mouth to the media. I do give him credit for helping talk Verlander into accepting the trade to the Astros. The story about Keuchel posing for nude photos wasn't impressive, either. I said it was low class at the time and I stand by that. I don't care for Keuchel and his tendency to dig a hole for the offense to climb out of in many of his starts. Let someone else overpay him. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Oct 23, 2018 21:49:53 GMT -6
Alex Cobb: 4-year $57 million Jake Arrieta: 3-year $75 million (2 team options also) I think we all agree Keuchel falls in between those two guys before 2018. And you don't think he can get up to $20 million a year on a short contract? Especially when starting pitcher free agents aren't great this off-season. I am not saying he can't get $20 million........I am just saying we should not give it to him. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Oct 23, 2018 22:33:31 GMT -6
Not at freaking $20 million per. Have you seen some of the contracts healthy starting pitchers get?? Look at Alex Cobb or Arrieta. I never said he wouldn’t be able to get that from someone. I just think it would be foolish to spend that much for an umpire and contact dependent pitcher. |
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Post by marshall on Oct 24, 2018 0:10:24 GMT -6
It's doubtful Boras would accept that deal though. After this past offseason's collusion, I don't think Boras' old tactics will be as stringent as they have been in the past. When 30 baseball owners individually decide not to be foolish, it's not collusion. It's sanity. |
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Post by Saint on Oct 24, 2018 8:34:54 GMT -6
Have you seen some of the contracts healthy starting pitchers get?? Look at Alex Cobb or Arrieta. I never said he wouldn’t be able to get that from someone. I just think it would be foolish to spend that much for an umpire and contact dependent pitcher. The results speak for themselves at this point though. Heck, he did a better job against Boston than Kershaw did last night. |
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