|
|
Post by Saint on Oct 7, 2019 15:12:19 GMT -6
"All we DO know is that Morton had an outstanding season for the Rays while we struggled to fill out a rotation after letting him go."
What? Collectively our non JV/Cole starters were 38-26 for a .594 winning percentage.
Do you even try to get some of the facts right before you go on verbal rampages?
|
|
|
|
Post by blcoach8 on Oct 7, 2019 15:14:07 GMT -6
Miley completely blew all of his free agent value over the course of a few weeks. He was going to get a 2 or 3 year deal from somebody. Now he'll be lucky to get a similar deal to what we gave him. The good news is this may open the door to re-signing Cole
Verlander Cole Greinke McCullers Whitley
I don't think they have any intentions of keeping Miley. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2019 15:16:25 GMT -6
Coming back on three days is often a disaster for a power pitcher like Verlander. Chances of him having tbe same stuff he would have in a game 5 are reduced. We do NOT have to win a game in Tampa.....They need 3 wins and we need ONE I get it, but we have two of the biggest guns in baseball. I think you have to use them. Our goal is the World Series. If we lose to the Yanks in the next round then our goal is still not met. No need to make Verlander obsolete for the Yanks by over pitching him against the Rays.
Urquidy can start the game and whatever happens we have a fresh Verlander in game #5. We are winning this series regardless, but to have both Verlander and possibly Cole go on short rest (then face the Yanks) would kill this team.
|
|
|
|
Post by Saint on Oct 7, 2019 15:17:16 GMT -6
I get it, but we have two of the biggest guns in baseball. I think you have to use them. Our goal is the World Series. If we lose to the Yanks in the next round then our goal is still not met. No need to make Verlander obsolete for the Yanks by over pitching him against the Rays.
Urquidy can start the game and whatever happens we have a fresh Verlander in game #5. We are winning this series regardless, but to have both Verlander and possibly Cole go on short rest (then face the Yanks) would kill this team.
Verlander could still be used in Game 2 and Game 7 of the ALCS. It's not like we're missing out. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2019 15:17:28 GMT -6
The good news is this may open the door to re-signing Cole
Verlander Cole Greinke McCullers Whitley
I don't think they have any intentions of keeping Miley. Not now, but in August they probably had entertained the thought of it. |
|
|
|
Post by thomasj13 on Oct 7, 2019 15:18:12 GMT -6
Miley completely blew all of his free agent value over the course of a few weeks. He was going to get a 2 or 3 year deal from somebody. Now he'll be lucky to get a similar deal to what we gave him. The good news is this may open the door to re-signing Cole
Verlander Cole Greinke McCullers Whitley
McCullers to the pen |
|
|
|
Post by blcoach8 on Oct 7, 2019 15:19:01 GMT -6
"All we DO know is that Morton had an outstanding season for the Rays while we struggled to fill out a rotation after letting him go." What? Collectively our non JV/Cole starters were 38-26 for a .594 winning percentage. Do you even try to get some of the facts right before you go on verbal rampages? I don't need to stick my nose in a stat sheet to see what is in front of my eyes............Miley tanked down the stretch. We went most of the season without Greinke. We had a hole in the rotation due to letting Morton walk and McCullers being out with Tommy John surgery. The won-loss record doesn't always tell the tale of the quality of the pitching......the offense played a big role in some of that 38-26 record. How many of those 38 wins did we have to score more than six runs to win? A guy can be the winning pitcher if he last five innings his team leads even if he gave up a lot of runs. |
|
|
|
Post by Saint on Oct 7, 2019 15:19:47 GMT -6
At this point let's just get to the ALCS. I don't expect our offense to do a whole lot tomorrow, and, if we use Urquidy, I don't expect us to keep them below 3-4 runs on the game.
I hope I'm wrong. But at the moment, the momentum is in favor of the Rays at least getting this to a Game 5.
|
|
|
|
Post by blcoach8 on Oct 7, 2019 15:20:13 GMT -6
I don't think they have any intentions of keeping Miley. Not now, but in August they probably had entertained the thought of it. They probably did in August. He either burned out or is hiding an injury. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2019 15:20:33 GMT -6
Our goal is the World Series. If we lose to the Yanks in the next round then our goal is still not met. No need to make Verlander obsolete for the Yanks by over pitching him against the Rays.
Urquidy can start the game and whatever happens we have a fresh Verlander in game #5. We are winning this series regardless, but to have both Verlander and possibly Cole go on short rest (then face the Yanks) would kill this team.
Verlander could still be used in Game 2 and Game 7 of the ALCS. It's not like we're missing out. But if Verlander doesn't come out strong because of the short rest then you have to depend on Cole for game #5 on short rest. Then you have Greinke starting Game #1 against the Yanks. I want Verlander to be available for 3 games if needed against New York and that only happens if we get through game #4 without him. Worst case we have Cole that could possbily go 3 games if needed. But to not have either one of them fully ready for that series would be disastrous.
Astros will not over react to one loss in the first 3 games by any means.
|
|
|
|
Post by Saint on Oct 7, 2019 15:21:15 GMT -6
"All we DO know is that Morton had an outstanding season for the Rays while we struggled to fill out a rotation after letting him go." What? Collectively our non JV/Cole starters were 38-26 for a .594 winning percentage. Do you even try to get some of the facts right before you go on verbal rampages? I don't need to stick my nose in a stat sheet to see what is in front of my eyes............Miley tanked down the stretch. We went most of the season without Greinke. We had a hole in the rotation due to letting Morton walk and McCullers being out with Tommy John surgery. The won-loss record doesn't always tell the tale of the quality of the pitching......the offense played a big role in some of that 38-26 record. How many of those 38 wins did we have to score more than six runs to win? A guy can be the winning pitcher if he last five innings his team leads even if he gave up a lot of runs. The bottom line is that we had a winning percentage better than most teams in baseball not even counting JV and Cole. We weren't desperate for Morton like you're making it sound. We won anyways. Without committing $45 million to Morton. |
|
|
|
Post by blcoach8 on Oct 7, 2019 15:21:50 GMT -6
At this point let's just get to the ALCS. I don't expect our offense to do a whole lot tomorrow, and, if we use Urquidy, I don't expect us to keep them below 3-4 runs on the game. I hope I'm wrong. But at the moment, the momentum is in favor of the Rays at least getting this to a Game 5. I just don't like the idea of bringing back a power pitcher of Verlander's age back on short rest. No doubt he gives it all he has but how much is in the tank on three days rest.? |
|
|
|
Post by Saint on Oct 7, 2019 15:22:26 GMT -6
Verlander could still be used in Game 2 and Game 7 of the ALCS. It's not like we're missing out. But if Verlander doesn't come out strong because of the short rest then you have to depend on Cole for game #5 on short rest. Then you have Greinke starting Game #1 against the Yanks. I want Verlander to be available for 3 games if needed against New York and that only happens if we get through game #4 without him. Worst case we have Cole that could possbily go 3 games if needed. But to not have either one of them fully ready for that series would be disastrous.
Astros will not over react to one loss in the first 3 games by any means.
I really hope you're right. But if I'm right about a Game 5, anything can happen in what then becomes a 1-game series. |
|
|
|
Post by Saint on Oct 7, 2019 15:24:17 GMT -6
At this point let's just get to the ALCS. I don't expect our offense to do a whole lot tomorrow, and, if we use Urquidy, I don't expect us to keep them below 3-4 runs on the game. I hope I'm wrong. But at the moment, the momentum is in favor of the Rays at least getting this to a Game 5. I just don't like the idea of bringing back a power pitcher of Verlander's age back on short rest. No doubt he gives it all he has but how much is in the tank on three days rest.? All I know is, if you tell me we have to win 1 of 2 more games, and you're starters are Urquidy and JV. You're putting a lot of eggs in that JV basket, and, as good as JV is, anybody can have a bad day. I like the odds of either at least JV or Cole having a good game. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2019 15:25:09 GMT -6
But if Verlander doesn't come out strong because of the short rest then you have to depend on Cole for game #5 on short rest. Then you have Greinke starting Game #1 against the Yanks. I want Verlander to be available for 3 games if needed against New York and that only happens if we get through game #4 without him. Worst case we have Cole that could possbily go 3 games if needed. But to not have either one of them fully ready for that series would be disastrous.
Astros will not over react to one loss in the first 3 games by any means.
I really hope you're right. But if I'm right about a Game 5, anything can happen in what then becomes a 1-game series. I'll take my chances with Verlander against anyone for that one game in Houston so Cole can be fully rested for game #1 against the Yanks.
Either way. Houston wins tomorrow and this is a moot point and best case scenario. Sucks it's another day game though as the Astros are better at night.
|
|
|
|
Post by blcoach8 on Oct 7, 2019 15:25:16 GMT -6
I don't need to stick my nose in a stat sheet to see what is in front of my eyes............Miley tanked down the stretch. We went most of the season without Greinke. We had a hole in the rotation due to letting Morton walk and McCullers being out with Tommy John surgery. The won-loss record doesn't always tell the tale of the quality of the pitching......the offense played a big role in some of that 38-26 record. How many of those 38 wins did we have to score more than six runs to win? A guy can be the winning pitcher if he last five innings his team leads even if he gave up a lot of runs. The bottom line is that we had a winning percentage better than most teams in baseball not even counting JV and Cole. We weren't desperate for Morton like you're making it sound. We won anyways. Without committing $45 million to Morton. Nobody said we were desperate. When Luhnow said "we are good enough to win the division with what we have" I was concerned about the rotation. We plugged McHugh and Peacock both into the rotation and that didn't work. Fortunately, Miley was good before tanking in September and then they got Greinke at the deadline. If we can't sign Cole, we have a big hole to fill. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2019 15:25:59 GMT -6
I just don't like the idea of bringing back a power pitcher of Verlander's age back on short rest. No doubt he gives it all he has but how much is in the tank on three days rest.? All I know is, if you tell me we have to win 1 of 2 more games, and you're starters are Urquidy and JV. You're putting a lot of eggs in that JV basket, and, as good as JV is, anybody can have a bad day. I like the odds of either at least JV or Cole having a good game. Looks like Verlander was just announced as the starter for tomorrow so there you go |
|
|
|
Post by blcoach8 on Oct 7, 2019 15:26:44 GMT -6
I just don't like the idea of bringing back a power pitcher of Verlander's age back on short rest. No doubt he gives it all he has but how much is in the tank on three days rest.? All I know is, if you tell me we have to win 1 of 2 more games, and you're starters are Urquidy and JV. You're putting a lot of eggs in that JV basket, and, as good as JV is, anybody can have a bad day. I like the odds of either at least JV or Cole having a good game. JV would have 5 days rest in game 5 as opposed to 3 days rest in game 4..........big difference,. We could also use Cole in relief if needed. |
|
|
|
Post by Saint on Oct 7, 2019 15:26:47 GMT -6
The bottom line is that we had a winning percentage better than most teams in baseball not even counting JV and Cole. We weren't desperate for Morton like you're making it sound. We won anyways. Without committing $45 million to Morton. Nobody said we were desperate. When Luhnow said "we are good enough to win the division with what we have" I was concerned about the rotation. We plugged McHugh and Peacock both into the rotation and that didn't work. Fortunately, Miley was good before tanking in September and then they got Greinke at the deadline. If we can't sign Cole, we have a big hole to fill. Well that's an entirely different discussion and doesn't have anything to do with Morton. |
|
|
|
Post by blcoach8 on Oct 7, 2019 15:27:23 GMT -6
All I know is, if you tell me we have to win 1 of 2 more games, and you're starters are Urquidy and JV. You're putting a lot of eggs in that JV basket, and, as good as JV is, anybody can have a bad day. I like the odds of either at least JV or Cole having a good game. Looks like Verlander was just announced as the starter for tomorrow so there you go I hope that doesn't come back to haunt us, |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2019 15:28:42 GMT -6
Looks like Verlander was just announced as the starter for tomorrow so there you go I hope that doesn't come back to haunt us, We'll win the series but if this goes to a game #5 with Cole then that hurts us against the Yanks.
I think Greinke's start today scared Hinch enough to not rely on Urquidy
|
|
|
|
Post by Saint on Oct 7, 2019 15:28:51 GMT -6
All I know is, if you tell me we have to win 1 of 2 more games, and you're starters are Urquidy and JV. You're putting a lot of eggs in that JV basket, and, as good as JV is, anybody can have a bad day. I like the odds of either at least JV or Cole having a good game. Looks like Verlander was just announced as the starter for tomorrow so there you go We're paying him to be the guy, let's hope he can be the guy. |
|
|
|
Post by Saint on Oct 7, 2019 15:30:45 GMT -6
I think you play to get the series in the bag. Then worry about the next series.
|
|
|
|
Post by blcoach8 on Oct 7, 2019 15:32:47 GMT -6
I think you play to get the series in the bag. Then worry about the next series. That I agree with. |
|
|
|
Post by Saint on Oct 7, 2019 15:37:24 GMT -6
If Verlander didn't think he were up to it, they wouldn't be doing it. Verlander might end up sucking, but I think you go with your strengths.
Even if we have to use Cole in Game 5, we still have Greinke-JV-Cole ready for games 1-2-3. We'll still probably use both JV and Cole twice, just not as early in the series.
Bottom line: The offense needs to do better. We have 10 earned runs in the first 3 games, and 2 of those came, essentially, in garbage time today. Springer and Brantley need to do more.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2019 15:44:44 GMT -6
I think you play to get the series in the bag. Then worry about the next series. I would agree if it was 2015 and we haven't won a playoff series in awhile. But, this is deviating from the original game plan of having 4 starters.
Anything could happen in a game where the Rays use an opener and the Astros have shown they are not good at measuring up. Throwing JV out there on short rest doesn't guarantee more of a victory than having Urquidy out there.
We will win this series so why waste JV and possibly Cole on short rest?
|
|
|
|
Post by blcoach8 on Oct 7, 2019 15:46:54 GMT -6
If Verlander didn't think he were up to it, they wouldn't be doing it. Verlander might end up sucking, but I think you go with your strengths. Even if we have to use Cole in Game 5, we still have Greinke-JV-Cole ready for games 1-2-3. We'll still probably use both JV and Cole twice, just not as early in the series. Bottom line: The offense needs to do better. We have 10 earned runs in the first 3 games, and 2 of those came, essentially, in garbage time today. Springer and Brantley need to do more. he will keep George and Brantley where they are and both are due to snap out of it. I would replace Reddick with Tucker in tomorrow's lineup. Our offense has let us down.....especially Springer and Brantley. I agree that they would not use Verlander tomorrow unless he told AJ he could go. He is a competitor and would not refuse it. I don't think he would say he could go if he thought otherwise. I just worry about him being on short rest, |
|
|
|
Post by Saint on Oct 7, 2019 15:48:38 GMT -6
I think you play to get the series in the bag. Then worry about the next series. I would agree if it was 2015 and we haven't won a playoff series in awhile. But, this is deviating from the original game plan of having 4 starters.
Anything could happen in a game where the Rays use an opener and the Astros have shown they are not good at measuring up. Throwing JV out there on short rest doesn't guarantee more of a victory than having Urquidy out there.
We will win this series so why waste JV and possibly Cole on short rest?
If you're so sure we will win this series why are you so unsure about winning tomorrow with JV? And is there a difference between JV-Cole or Cole-JV in the ALCS? |
|
|
|
Post by Saint on Oct 7, 2019 15:50:50 GMT -6
This can go one of three ways:
1. JV wins tomorrow and we go to the ALCS Cole-JV-Greinke.
2. JV loses and Cole wins Game 5. We go to the ALCS Greinke-JV-Cole.
3. JV loses and Cole loses. We bitch about what could have been and then watch them win 95+ games next year and try all of this over again, albeit probably without Cole.
I'm okay with either of the first two options.
|
|
koolade2
Veteran
15K Thief
#WWG1WGA
Posts: 4,340
Likes: 505
|
Post by koolade2 on Oct 7, 2019 15:54:50 GMT -6
I have been away due to work. No computer near me. I am more worried about the Ice Cold offense that shows up more often than not.
by the Way, I was on the Plane with a family traveling to Houston to see Game 1 and 2. Happen to be on the plane on the way back and they were there. They got to see two great games too
Actually was in the Woodlands area both days of the game working on a Packaging Machine. Only found out the score after they were almost over.
|
|
