|
|
Post by Saint on Dec 19, 2019 16:43:16 GMT -6
I get it, but you still have to look at the age and the body of work. His walk rate has been a little high the last couple seasons, but he is still in his prime and healthy. I'm very surprised some rebuilding team like the White Sox or Marlins wouldn't look at him as a good innings eater to pair with their young pitching staffs for a few years. This spells doom for Keuchel, imo. When players start shitting the bed, you don't go long on contract commitment until they show strong signs they won't continue to do that. The Braves could have kept him for one more year @ $12M, but elected to pay him a million to just go away. So basically they were saying he wasn't even worth $11M to have him for a year. That should tell you all you need to know. I understand all that. I'm still surprised though. The guy was 10-8 with a 3.31 ERA before his final 3 starts of the season. Heck, he was sitting at a 3.55 ERA before his final game of the season through 172 IP, and he carried that rotation through July and August with a 2.38 ERA. Outside of his walk rate he was almost the same guy he was in 2016 when he was an all-star. He was also one of the few pitchers who didn't get pulverized by the long ball in 2019; even better than Cole. I never said he should get a "long contract commitment", but I feel like the guy was worth a 2-3 year decent deal from somebody. |
|
|
|
Post by Hunter McCormick on Dec 19, 2019 20:18:26 GMT -6
When players start shitting the bed, you don't go long on contract commitment until they show strong signs they won't continue to do that. The Braves could have kept him for one more year @ $12M, but elected to pay him a million to just go away. So basically they were saying he wasn't even worth $11M to have him for a year. That should tell you all you need to know. I understand all that. I'm still surprised though. The guy was 10-8 with a 3.31 ERA before his final 3 starts of the season. Heck, he was sitting at a 3.55 ERA before his final game of the season through 172 IP, and he carried that rotation through July and August with a 2.38 ERA. Outside of his walk rate he was almost the same guy he was in 2016 when he was an all-star. He was also one of the few pitchers who didn't get pulverized by the long ball in 2019; even better than Cole. I never said he should get a "long contract commitment", but I feel like the guy was worth a 2-3 year decent deal from somebody. Three years would have been insane unless he had signed dirt-cheap. He's seducing you with his ERA but that's a relatively empty number in this case. His Field Independent Pitching stats are abysmal. He owes much of his success due to the excellent defense of the Braves. His WHIP is barely league-average. Comparing Teheran to Cole for HR rate is amusing. Cole was only slightly above league average for HR/9. But he more than made up for that by leading the league in K/9 and having a respectably low BB/9. You won't find anything to brag about with Teheran's numbers in those stat columns. Teheran bought himself an opportunity for a bounce-back year in 2020. If he succeeds, he'll be able to ink a deal next winter that will blow away anything a GM in his right mind would have been willing to offer him now. If his 2020 looks like his 2019, next winter he'll have to sign for less than he's making now. |
|
|
|
Post by nathangarza29 on Dec 19, 2019 23:30:08 GMT -6
Seen some good thoughts today.
"Astros are waiting on the Fransico Lindor trade to go threw or not go threw before they really Push Carlos Correa out there. Although nothing seems pressing, it is certain we are gonna see something soon from the Astros"
Makes since. Also there is gaining tracking on Reddick being traded. But not to a team anyone is talking about. Seems Like the Cards Have checked on Reddick as a fall back option to Ozuna
|
|
|
|
Post by Hunter McCormick on Dec 20, 2019 6:24:58 GMT -6
"Astros are waiting on the Fransico Lindor trade to go threw or not go threw before they really Push Carlos Correa out there. Although nothing seems pressing, it is certain we are gonna see something soon from the Astros" Take the opinions of the person you quoted, with a grain of salt. They're obviously illiterate. |
|
|
|
Post by olpapa on Dec 20, 2019 8:27:46 GMT -6
"Astros are waiting on the Fransico Lindor trade to go threw or not go threw before they really Push Carlos Correa out there. Although nothing seems pressing, it is certain we are gonna see something soon from the Astros" Take the opinions of the person you quoted, with a grain of salt. They're obviously illiterate. The idea that he is quoting himself is gaining tracking with me. Does that make sense? |
|
|
|
Post by Saint on Dec 20, 2019 8:39:03 GMT -6
I understand all that. I'm still surprised though. The guy was 10-8 with a 3.31 ERA before his final 3 starts of the season. Heck, he was sitting at a 3.55 ERA before his final game of the season through 172 IP, and he carried that rotation through July and August with a 2.38 ERA. Outside of his walk rate he was almost the same guy he was in 2016 when he was an all-star. He was also one of the few pitchers who didn't get pulverized by the long ball in 2019; even better than Cole. I never said he should get a "long contract commitment", but I feel like the guy was worth a 2-3 year decent deal from somebody. Three years would have been insane unless he had signed dirt-cheap. He's seducing you with his ERA but that's a relatively empty number in this case. His Field Independent Pitching stats are abysmal. He owes much of his success due to the excellent defense of the Braves. His WHIP is barely league-average. Comparing Teheran to Cole for HR rate is amusing. Cole was only slightly above league average for HR/9. But he more than made up for that by leading the league in K/9 and having a respectably low BB/9. You won't find anything to brag about with Teheran's numbers in those stat columns. Teheran bought himself an opportunity for a bounce-back year in 2020. If he succeeds, he'll be able to ink a deal next winter that will blow away anything a GM in his right mind would have been willing to offer him now. If his 2020 looks like his 2019, next winter he'll have to sign for less than he's making now. ERA is an empty number for small sample sizes, but at some point, good luck, good defense, whatever, the results are the results. Not allowing runs is the goal by any means necessary. Even if he were to regress to say a 4.30-ish ERA, are you saying that a pitcher that has averaged 191 IP in 7 straight years (and who is still in his prime) with a low-mid 4.00 ERA that eats those kinds of innings isn't worth a 2-3 year deal for teams that need stabilization in their rotation? And I'm just using Cole as an example. |
|
|
|
Post by Hunter McCormick on Dec 20, 2019 9:31:03 GMT -6
I'm saying that based on his history with the most recent performance being properly weighted, the Braves were right to not exercise their option to keep him for $12M and instead pay him $1M to just close out that deal. He had an opportunity to deal with 30 teams (the Braves were still interested, but for less money) and he wisely settled for what he got. I'm also saying you seem to think if you were in a room with the 30 GMs in MLB, you'd be the smartest guy in the room. And I think you're wrong about that. JMO. |
|
|
|
Post by Hunter McCormick on Dec 20, 2019 9:33:42 GMT -6
Take the opinions of the person you quoted, with a grain of salt. They're obviously illiterate. The idea that he is quoting himself is gaining tracking with me. Does that make sense? You misspelled 'since'.  |
|
|
|
Post by Saint on Dec 20, 2019 9:44:47 GMT -6
I'm saying that based on his history with the most recent performance being properly weighted, the Braves were right to not exercise their option to keep him for $12M and instead pay him $1M to just close out that deal. He had an opportunity to deal with 30 teams (the Braves were still interested, but for less money) and he wisely settled for what he got. I'm also saying you seem to think if you were in a room with the 30 GMs in MLB, you'd be the smartest guy in the room. And I think you're wrong about that. JMO. No, I said I was surprised he wasn't able to get more based on his age and body of work. Obviously there is more to it or he would have gotten better offers. I've said from the beginning that just surprised me. You're the one arguing with my opinion. You're not surprised by what he got; I am. End of story. I don't know how saying something is surprising means that I think I'm smarter than anybody... |
|
|
|
Post by Hunter McCormick on Dec 20, 2019 9:57:00 GMT -6
You're not surprised by what he got; I am. True. Obviously there is more to it or he would have gotten better offers. True. |
|
|
|
Post by blcoach8 on Dec 20, 2019 10:13:34 GMT -6
It appears the Indians are determined to trade Lindor. I wish we could put Correa in a package and get Lindor ourselves.
|
|
|
|
Post by thomasj13 on Dec 20, 2019 10:44:57 GMT -6
It appears the Indians are determined to trade Lindor. I wish we could put Correa in a package and get Lindor ourselves. I don't, need to go after pitching and catching, and for players that have more team years control. Plus, Lindor is more expensive than Correa. Dodgers, Mets or Braves are teams I hope the Astros are shopping Correa to....I don't see the Reds giving up their Ace, Castillo, for Correa. |
|
|
|
Post by Saint on Dec 20, 2019 10:52:24 GMT -6
For as negative as most of us are being about Correa (myself included), the one thing to remember is that he is perfectly capable and has the talent to be an MVP candidate next year. The guy was on pace for 43 HR 121 RBI with a .900+ OPS and excellent defense in 2019. Maybe the best thing at this point is to stick with him and see if he can rebuild some higher trade value. If we trade him now we're probably selling low.
If we don't have the payroll flexibility to do a lot with pitching, let's try to keep our offense potent and maybe even bulk up the depth some. Maybe go after a Travis Shaw or even Eric Thames that can play multiple positions with high power. They'd probably be pretty cheap. Replacing Mayfield with Shaw for infield depth would be a plus. Odds are somebody will get hurt during ST. And, if nobody does and we can't find a trade partner for Reddick, just release him with his money and move on. Shaw is young enough and could be a cheap replacement if Gurriel moves on after next year too.
Just throwing it out there. If we can't put together the best rotation again, we can try and put together the best offense.
|
|
|
|
Post by thomasj13 on Dec 20, 2019 11:38:29 GMT -6
For as negative as most of us are being about Correa (myself included), the one thing to remember is that he is perfectly capable and has the talent to be an MVP candidate next year. The guy was on pace for 43 HR 121 RBI with a .900+ OPS and excellent defense in 2019. Maybe the best thing at this point is to stick with him and see if he can rebuild some higher trade value. If we trade him now we're probably selling low. If we don't have the payroll flexibility to do a lot with pitching, let's try to keep our offense potent and maybe even bulk up the depth some. Maybe go after a Travis Shaw or even Eric Thames that can play multiple positions with high power. They'd probably be pretty cheap. Replacing Mayfield with Shaw for infield depth would be a plus. Odds are somebody will get hurt during ST. And, if nobody does and we can't find a trade partner for Reddick, just release him with his money and move on. Shaw is young enough and could be a cheap replacement if Gurriel moves on after next year too. Just throwing it out there. If we can't put together the best rotation again, we can try and put together the best offense. I am not negative on his ability or his ceiling. When playing, he is an elite SS....But the reasons why I think we need to move him are because 1.he is often injured 2. he is currently healthy. why risk playing him, if you are going to trade him. 3.he has only 2 more years of team control 4. the lower probability in re-signing him in 2 years 5. what it would cost to re-sign him, the big contracts they already have 6. the need to re-sign Springer, thus the money it will take 7. the Astros need to get younger, cheaper to offset the core's big contracts 8. his arbitration is getting expensive 9. you might get great value for those that don't land Lindor, on the premise they teams that did not get Lindor, will still be looking 10. so we don't have to hear Corch call something "ass" or make fun of his wife.. |
|
|
|
Post by Saint on Dec 20, 2019 11:54:05 GMT -6
For as negative as most of us are being about Correa (myself included), the one thing to remember is that he is perfectly capable and has the talent to be an MVP candidate next year. The guy was on pace for 43 HR 121 RBI with a .900+ OPS and excellent defense in 2019. Maybe the best thing at this point is to stick with him and see if he can rebuild some higher trade value. If we trade him now we're probably selling low. If we don't have the payroll flexibility to do a lot with pitching, let's try to keep our offense potent and maybe even bulk up the depth some. Maybe go after a Travis Shaw or even Eric Thames that can play multiple positions with high power. They'd probably be pretty cheap. Replacing Mayfield with Shaw for infield depth would be a plus. Odds are somebody will get hurt during ST. And, if nobody does and we can't find a trade partner for Reddick, just release him with his money and move on. Shaw is young enough and could be a cheap replacement if Gurriel moves on after next year too. Just throwing it out there. If we can't put together the best rotation again, we can try and put together the best offense. I am not negative on his ability or his ceiling. When playing, he is an elite SS....But the reasons why I think we need to move him are because 1.he is often injured 2. he is currently healthy. why risk playing him, if you are going to trade him. 3.he has only 2 more years of team control 4. the lower probability in re-signing him in 2 years 5. what it would cost to re-sign him, the big contracts they already have 6. the need to re-sign Springer, thus the money it will take 7. the Astros need to get younger, cheaper to offset the core's big contracts 8. his arbitration is getting expensive 9. you might get great value for those that don't land Lindor, on the premise they teams that did not get Lindor, will still be looking 10. so we don't have to hear Corch call something "ass" or make fun of his wife..Somebody else will take his place. Rest assured. |
|
|
|
Post by nathangarza29 on Dec 20, 2019 12:04:36 GMT -6
I seen an intreasting trade proposal.
White Sox Get:
Carlos Correa, Brad Peacock and Chris Devenski.
Astros get:
James McCann, Micheal Kopach and Jonathan Stiever.
Its a money move alittle bit but it also makes since. They Can move Tim Anderson to 2B Correa to SS and they would have a very young Inf.
They give up an Injury player in Kopach for an Injury player in Correa.
Kinda looks intreasting
|
|
|
|
Post by Saint on Dec 20, 2019 12:20:14 GMT -6
I seen an intreasting trade proposal. White Sox Get: Carlos Correa, Brad Peacock and Chris Devenski. Astros get: James McCann, Micheal Kopach and Jonathan Stiever. Its a money move alittle bit but it also makes since. They Can move Tim Anderson to 2B Correa to SS and they would have a very young Inf. They give up an Injury player in Kopach for an Injury player in Correa. Kinda looks intreasting That doesn't seem to benefit us right now. Maybe some potential sense for the future but makes us weaker right now. |
|
|
|
Post by blcoach8 on Dec 20, 2019 12:35:47 GMT -6
For as negative as most of us are being about Correa (myself included), the one thing to remember is that he is perfectly capable and has the talent to be an MVP candidate next year. The guy was on pace for 43 HR 121 RBI with a .900+ OPS and excellent defense in 2019. Maybe the best thing at this point is to stick with him and see if he can rebuild some higher trade value. If we trade him now we're probably selling low. If we don't have the payroll flexibility to do a lot with pitching, let's try to keep our offense potent and maybe even bulk up the depth some. Maybe go after a Travis Shaw or even Eric Thames that can play multiple positions with high power. They'd probably be pretty cheap. Replacing Mayfield with Shaw for infield depth would be a plus. Odds are somebody will get hurt during ST. And, if nobody does and we can't find a trade partner for Reddick, just release him with his money and move on. Shaw is young enough and could be a cheap replacement if Gurriel moves on after next year too. Just throwing it out there. If we can't put together the best rotation again, we can try and put together the best offense. MVP's don t sit on their ass half a season on vacation. |
|
|
|
Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Dec 20, 2019 12:42:38 GMT -6
For as negative as most of us are being about Correa (myself included), the one thing to remember is that he is perfectly capable and has the talent to be an MVP candidate next year. The guy was on pace for 43 HR 121 RBI with a .900+ OPS and excellent defense in 2019. Maybe the best thing at this point is to stick with him and see if he can rebuild some higher trade value. If we trade him now we're probably selling low. If we don't have the payroll flexibility to do a lot with pitching, let's try to keep our offense potent and maybe even bulk up the depth some. Maybe go after a Travis Shaw or even Eric Thames that can play multiple positions with high power. They'd probably be pretty cheap. Replacing Mayfield with Shaw for infield depth would be a plus. Odds are somebody will get hurt during ST. And, if nobody does and we can't find a trade partner for Reddick, just release him with his money and move on. Shaw is young enough and could be a cheap replacement if Gurriel moves on after next year too. Just throwing it out there. If we can't put together the best rotation again, we can try and put together the best offense. MVP's don t sit on their ass half a season on vacation. You sure do take that personally. You sure shouldn't. Do you feel the same way about Altuve and Springer, both of whom missed considerable time over the last 2 seasons? |
|
|
|
Post by Saint on Dec 20, 2019 13:10:50 GMT -6
For as negative as most of us are being about Correa (myself included), the one thing to remember is that he is perfectly capable and has the talent to be an MVP candidate next year. The guy was on pace for 43 HR 121 RBI with a .900+ OPS and excellent defense in 2019. Maybe the best thing at this point is to stick with him and see if he can rebuild some higher trade value. If we trade him now we're probably selling low. If we don't have the payroll flexibility to do a lot with pitching, let's try to keep our offense potent and maybe even bulk up the depth some. Maybe go after a Travis Shaw or even Eric Thames that can play multiple positions with high power. They'd probably be pretty cheap. Replacing Mayfield with Shaw for infield depth would be a plus. Odds are somebody will get hurt during ST. And, if nobody does and we can't find a trade partner for Reddick, just release him with his money and move on. Shaw is young enough and could be a cheap replacement if Gurriel moves on after next year too. Just throwing it out there. If we can't put together the best rotation again, we can try and put together the best offense. MVP's don t sit on their ass half a season on vacation. Let's be fair. That should say "MVP's don t sit on their ass a third a season on vacation." |
|
|
|
Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Dec 20, 2019 13:26:07 GMT -6
I think Mike Trout showed the error in that "MVPs don't sit on their ass half a season" bit when he sat on his ass, and won the MVP
|
|
|
|
Post by unionstation82 on Dec 20, 2019 13:43:00 GMT -6
I think Mike Trout showed the error in that "MVPs don't sit on their ass half a season" bit when he sat on his ass, and won the MVP He deserved it, but it sure felt like an “oh he should have won it X years ago so let’s definitely give it to him now” type of award. |
|
|
|
Post by blcoach8 on Dec 20, 2019 13:59:15 GMT -6
MVP's don t sit on their ass half a season on vacation. You sure do take that personally. You sure shouldn't. Do you feel the same way about Altuve and Springer, both of whom missed considerable time over the last 2 seasons? No I think the injuries to Altuve and Springer are legit. I question the suppoed injuries of Correa because he LIED about how he fractured a rib. If he had just told the truth,. it would be a different story. He did not get a fractured rib by having a massage from a licensed masseuse. he and Miss hoochie coochie hid the truth. |
|
|
|
Post by blcoach8 on Dec 20, 2019 14:01:07 GMT -6
I think Mike Trout showed the error in that "MVPs don't sit on their ass half a season" bit when he sat on his ass, and won the MVP Trout should not have won the MVP, either...Bregman deserved it. Trout has a history of getting injured when the Angels get eliminated. He bales out. |
|
|
|
Post by Saint on Dec 20, 2019 14:10:59 GMT -6
Speaking of MVPs. Bregman has trended up in almost every way each of his 4 MLB seasons. Do we think he has peaked and will level out, or is there a chance he can still be better?
I know we all like Altuve and Springer, and Correa has tons of potential if healthy, but Bregman is projecting the most like Bagwell and Berkman at their peaks (who I believe everybody would agree are our two most productive hitters). It's still early, but, by the time his contract is over (age 30), he is on pace to have better totals in the main counting stats then both of those guys.
|
|
|
|
Post by abregmanfan on Dec 20, 2019 15:36:55 GMT -6
Speaking of MVPs. Bregman has trended up in almost every way each of his 4 MLB seasons. Do we think he has peaked and will level out, or is there a chance he can still be better? I know we all like Altuve and Springer, and Correa has tons of potential if healthy, but Bregman is projecting the most like Bagwell and Berkman at their peaks (who I believe everybody would agree are our two most productive hitters). It's still early, but, by the time his contract is over (age 30), he is on pace to have better totals in the main counting stats then both of those guys. I think he is nearing his peak. I hope he can keep it up for some time.... |
|
|
|
Post by thomasj13 on Dec 20, 2019 15:42:51 GMT -6
Speaking of MVPs. Bregman has trended up in almost every way each of his 4 MLB seasons. Do we think he has peaked and will level out, or is there a chance he can still be better? I know we all like Altuve and Springer, and Correa has tons of potential if healthy, but Bregman is projecting the most like Bagwell and Berkman at their peaks (who I believe everybody would agree are our two most productive hitters). It's still early, but, by the time his contract is over (age 30), he is on pace to have better totals in the main counting stats then both of those guys. I think he is nearing his peak. I hope he can keep it up for some time.... TMI |
|
|
|
Post by abregmanfan on Dec 20, 2019 15:46:55 GMT -6
I think he is nearing his peak. I hope he can keep it up for some time.... TMI |
|
|
|
Post by unionstation82 on Dec 20, 2019 15:47:39 GMT -6
You sure do take that personally. You sure shouldn't. Do you feel the same way about Altuve and Springer, both of whom missed considerable time over the last 2 seasons? No I think the injuries to Altuve and Springer are legit. I question the suppoed injuries of Correa because he LIED about how he fractured a rib. If he had just told the truth,. it would be a different story. He did not get a fractured rib by having a massage from a licensed masseuse. he and Miss hoochie coochie hid the truth. I’m convinced the injury explanation was so stupid that it had to be the truth. |
|
|
|
Post by blcoach8 on Dec 20, 2019 16:58:32 GMT -6
No I think the injuries to Altuve and Springer are legit. I question the suppoed injuries of Correa because he LIED about how he fractured a rib. If he had just told the truth,. it would be a different story. He did not get a fractured rib by having a massage from a licensed masseuse. he and Miss hoochie coochie hid the truth. I’m convinced the injury explanation was so stupid that it had to be the truth. I am convinced hoochie coohie girl broke it during some rough "activity". |
|
