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Post by paastrosfan on Dec 14, 2019 14:57:37 GMT -6
I don't have the data, but I'd bet back in my youth the average start lasted 6-7 innings, where now it is 5-6. That extra inning or two has created a cottage industry of bullpen specialist. OTOH, as we gripe about the time wasted. One thing back then was batters didn't jump in and out of the batters box after every pitch. Now that's an annoying waste of time. I don't know when your youth was, Catfish, but I picked 1968 (one of my favorites as a Tigers fan) to compare to 2019. In 1968, starting pitchers averaged 6.6 innings and there were 887 Complete Games (out of 3250 total pitcher/games) www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/1968-starter-pitching.shtmlIn 2019 that was down to an average of 5.2 innings for a starter and a mere 45 Complete Games (out of 4858 total pitcher/games) www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/2019-starter-pitching.shtmlAlso in the 60's you were looking at four man rotations. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2019 15:56:01 GMT -6
I don't have the data, but I'd bet back in my youth the average start lasted 6-7 innings, where now it is 5-6. That extra inning or two has created a cottage industry of bullpen specialist. OTOH, as we gripe about the time wasted. One thing back then was batters didn't jump in and out of the batters box after every pitch. Now that's an annoying waste of time. I don't know when your youth was, Catfish, but I picked 1968 (one of my favorites as a Tigers fan) to compare to 2019. In 1968, starting pitchers averaged 6.6 innings and there were 887 Complete Games (out of 3250 total pitcher/games) www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/1968-starter-pitching.shtmlIn 2019 that was down to an average of 5.2 innings for a starter and a mere 45 Complete Games (out of 4858 total pitcher/games) www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/2019-starter-pitching.shtmlI became an Astros fan as a child in '65. PA's right... It was in the '70's with Sparky and LaRussa that we starting seeing the managers remodel the relief role. |
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Post by Hunter McCormick on Dec 14, 2019 15:56:36 GMT -6
Also in the 60's you were looking at four man rotations. Ah, yes. Back when men were Men. |
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Post by Hunter McCormick on Dec 14, 2019 15:58:01 GMT -6
I became an Astros fan as a child in '65. PA's right... It was in the '70's with Sparky and LaRussa that we starting seeing the managers remodel the relief role. Mid sixties, eh? What a time for baseball! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2019 16:04:53 GMT -6
I became an Astros fan as a child in '65. PA's right... It was in the '70's with Sparky and LaRussa that we starting seeing the managers remodel the relief role. Mid sixties, eh? What a time for baseball! For an Astros fan? Suffering would be one of those emotions. |
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Post by Saint on Dec 14, 2019 17:59:40 GMT -6
No, baseball didn't use to regularly go through 5+ pitchers a game. Fair point. It's ludicrous to claim it's "been this way for decades" and ignore the nonsense that's become rampant in everyday games today (which wasn't like that in the '60s). This business of treating every pitch, in every at-bat, in every inning, of every game as if it was being thrown in the ninth inning of game-7 of the World Series is absurd. Catchers running out to the mound, every other pitch. Batters asking for time, multiple times between pitches. Pitchers holding the ball for ridiculous amounts of time with their foot on the pitcher's plate, before actually throwing the pitch. The duration of games was fairly consistent in the '50s, '60s, and '70s. Average time for a nine-inning game was roughly 2:30. But things took a turn for the worse in the '80s and forward. In 2019 the average duration for a nine-inning game was 3:05 and we already had plenty of lame rules in-place in a failed attempt to improve the pace of play! Refer to the column marked Time/9I in this list: www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/misc.shtml
The 3-hitter rule for relief pitchers is wrong-headed and ridiculous. But it doesn't take a rocket surgeon or a brain scientist to understand why MLB is resorting to stupid measures like this.I don't like that it HAS to be a rule, but it needs changed. |
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Post by paastrosfan on Dec 14, 2019 18:18:06 GMT -6
I became an Astros fan as a child in '65. PA's right... It was in the '70's with Sparky and LaRussa that we starting seeing the managers remodel the relief role. Mid sixties, eh? What a time for baseball! Even though the Stros didn't become relevant until the end of that decade, it produced some of the greatest players in the game. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Dec 14, 2019 22:24:13 GMT -6
No, baseball didn't use to regularly go through 5+ pitchers a game. I don't have the data, but I'd bet back in my youth the average start lasted 6-7 innings, where now it is 5-6. That extra inning or two has created a cottage industry of bullpen specialist. OTOH, as we gripe about the time wasted. One thing back then was batters didn't jump in and out of the batters box after every pitch. Now that's an annoying waste of time. One of the things I like the most about Yordan is that he stands there in the batters box, always ready to hit. He doesn't pull the Marwin Gonzalez routine of fixing his gloves 100 times an AB, and walking around in circles behind the umpire after every pitch. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Dec 14, 2019 22:40:19 GMT -6
I don't have the data, but I'd bet back in my youth the average start lasted 6-7 innings, where now it is 5-6. That extra inning or two has created a cottage industry of bullpen specialist. OTOH, as we gripe about the time wasted. One thing back then was batters didn't jump in and out of the batters box after every pitch. Now that's an annoying waste of time. One of the things I like the most about Yordan is that he stands there in the batters box, always ready to hit. He doesn't pull the Marwin Gonzalez routine of fixing his gloves 100 times an AB, and walking around in circles behind the umpire after every pitch. He was like a lefthanded Chris Carter this past postseason. |
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Post by olpapa on Dec 14, 2019 22:59:35 GMT -6
I don't have the data, but I'd bet back in my youth the average start lasted 6-7 innings, where now it is 5-6. That extra inning or two has created a cottage industry of bullpen specialist. OTOH, as we gripe about the time wasted. One thing back then was batters didn't jump in and out of the batters box after every pitch. Now that's an annoying waste of time. Go back as far as I know three innings saves were a norm in the 60's. LaRusa and Anderson were the guys that started pushing the specialists in the 70's. You are correct sir. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2019 21:44:47 GMT -6
 Look Daddy....... Every time a bell rings, an Astros player steals another sign. |
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Post by olpapa on Dec 16, 2019 6:51:12 GMT -6
Also in the 60's you were looking at four man rotations. Ah, yes. Back when men were Men. .... and women were glad of it. |
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Post by m240 on Dec 16, 2019 11:11:19 GMT -6
I have been reading a lot of stuff about Astros players confessing to using the existing equipment that was available to discover the signs. If you are a clever word smithing lawyer one could make a case that there really were no rules broken. However having said that this thing has taken on a life of it's own and punishment will be forthcoming. It will be a disappointing punishment for teams and fans of teams like the Yankees, the Red Sox, and the Dodgers. It most likely will be a way to gloat for a team like the Nationals that spy versus spy (ed) us. At any rate this does not concern me as much as it did as I thought the world was ending and now it turns out that some boys misbehaved. At least that is the way it appears today.
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Post by bearbryant on Dec 17, 2019 9:43:47 GMT -6
I don't have the data, but I'd bet back in my youth the average start lasted 6-7 innings, where now it is 5-6. That extra inning or two has created a cottage industry of bullpen specialist. OTOH, as we gripe about the time wasted. One thing back then was batters didn't jump in and out of the batters box after every pitch. Now that's an annoying waste of time. Go back as far as I know three innings saves were a norm in the 60's. LaRusa and Anderson were the guys that started pushing the specialists in the 70's. |
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Post by thomasj13 on Dec 17, 2019 9:50:56 GMT -6
Go back as far as I know three innings saves were a norm in the 60's. LaRusa and Anderson were the guys that started pushing the specialists in the 70's. 60's pot, 70's acid, 80's coke, 90's X |
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Post by paastrosfan on Dec 18, 2019 18:24:18 GMT -6
Go back as far as I know three innings saves were a norm in the 60's. LaRusa and Anderson were the guys that started pushing the specialists in the 70's. That was a wild decade to grow up in, not only sports with the AFL-NFL clashes, Nam and the beginning of the drug era, long hair and the hippie generation. |
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Post by bearbryant on Dec 20, 2019 11:33:31 GMT -6
Usually when I hear folks chat about the sixties it's a story about someone running afoul of law enforcement That was a wild decade to grow up in, not only sports with the AFL-NFL clashes, Nam and the beginning of the drug era, long hair and the hippie generation. I didn't know much about the AFL till I saw a documentary about Sid Gillman 20 years ago. Who I understand coached the Oilers briefly before my time That's when I learned about Lance Allworth. Pro football's first ever deep threat
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Post by paastrosfan on Dec 20, 2019 23:08:20 GMT -6
That was a wild decade to grow up in, not only sports with the AFL-NFL clashes, Nam and the beginning of the drug era, long hair and the hippie generation. I didn't know much about the AFL till I saw a documentary about Sid Gillman 20 years ago. Who I understand coached the Oilers briefly before my time That's when I learned about Lance Allworth. Pro football's first ever deep threat
I was a big AFL fan, that was John Hadll to Allworth, the Charger connection. In Oakland Lamonica to Cliff Branch. They made the big bomb plays you hardly ever see anymore. |
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