marshall
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21st Century Luddite
Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood...
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Post by marshall on Jan 14, 2020 8:13:11 GMT -6
With the reputation we've now built, we may not get the cream of the crop applying for the position... I don’t think it changes a thing. I agree. The shame factor is slight and the opportunity factor with this team is great. The problem is whether you can step up quickly or have to look over your shoulder after next seasons suspensions have been served. |
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marshall
Veteran
21st Century Luddite
Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood...
Posts: 4,358
Likes: 446
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Post by marshall on Jan 14, 2020 8:14:42 GMT -6
I’d be more satisfied if Alex Cora gets a permanent ban. MLB is just like the SWAMP. Some get away with an apology and others get the death penalty. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2020 8:16:21 GMT -6
I'd totally be on board with that. Me too. I was always a fan of Ausmus as a manager. Just when you thought it couldn't get any more depressing |
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Post by unionstation82 on Jan 14, 2020 8:24:29 GMT -6
Where does this scandal place guys like Elias, Stearns, Mejdal, Goldstein, and Luhnow in your book? Stearns was gone in September 2015, so he shouldn’t have been involved in any way. Elias and Mejdal? They were probably aware that something was going on. Based on the email that was released, there is little doubt that Goldstein was in the middle of it. Luhnow had to be aware of it. It won’t look good on a resume for any of the guys who were in the FO in 2017. I don’t think it will keep Luhnow from getting a job with another team. If Elias falls on his face in Baltimore, it could hurt his chances of getting another job in MLB. Same for Mejdal. Wouldn’t be surprised if we have seen the last of Goldstein. HOW IS GOLDSTEIN STILL EMPLOYED? |
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Post by unionstation82 on Jan 14, 2020 8:32:34 GMT -6
I thought this was hilarious.
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Post by olpapa on Jan 14, 2020 8:42:26 GMT -6
Apparently all the players on the 2017 team participated in this fiasco. Crane canned Luhnow and Hinch, indicating he wanted to start with a clean slate. Considering that, do you think he starts tearing the team down this season in order to get rid of the perpetrators and start anew?
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marshall
Veteran
21st Century Luddite
Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood...
Posts: 4,358
Likes: 446
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Post by marshall on Jan 14, 2020 8:49:46 GMT -6
Apparently all the players on the 2017 team participated in this fiasco. Crane canned Luhnow and Hinch, indicating he wanted to start with a clean slate. Considering that, do you think he starts tearing the team down this season in order to get rid of the perpetrators and start anew? It is an option.
I'm not sure having extra draft picks will help as much as it would have with Luhnow. Now he's gone.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2020 8:58:59 GMT -6
Apparently all the players on the 2017 team participated in this fiasco. Crane canned Luhnow and Hinch, indicating he wanted to start with a clean slate. Considering that, do you think he starts tearing the team down this season in order to get rid of the perpetrators and start anew? It is an option.
I'm not sure having extra draft picks will help as much as it would have with Luhnow. Now he's gone.
What do you think? Jungle Jim Crane is running the show now.  |
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marshall
Veteran
21st Century Luddite
Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood...
Posts: 4,358
Likes: 446
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Post by marshall on Jan 14, 2020 9:05:09 GMT -6
It is an option.
I'm not sure having extra draft picks will help as much as it would have with Luhnow. Now he's gone.
What do you think? Jungle Jim Crane is running the show now. I hope it is just a brief episode while he does a thorough search for a management team. We don't have to look too far to see what happens when an owner plays GM.
While it will never happen, I would like to see Reed Ryan return as GM and Brad Ausmus as Manager. But that water under the bridge thing doesn't have a lot of weight.
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Jan 14, 2020 9:24:35 GMT -6
In a space of 7 days ... Saints get screwed by the Zebras for the second conseuctive playoff season Neil Peart died Astros lose Luhnow, while cheating players and hypocritical owner stay or skate. Texans choke under the weight of coach who doesn't deserve to be even in a Pop Warner Kiddie Football League LSU wins, unleashing 20 obnoxious relatives who like to remind me weekly of that fact they won it . And my dog shit on the floor this morning. Yeah, my f'n head is about to explode. I hate that when I wake up and there’s dog shit on the floor with dribbles of it heading into a room. Really pisses me off. As far as the Astros, they have sunk to as low as a team can get. Players cheated. Coaching staff cheated. I don’t believe what Luhnow said about not knowing about it. I wash my hands of this team. Red Sox will pay next. Alex Cora is the ultimate cheater. Disgusting. Animals belong outside. They're animals. |
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Post by Saint on Jan 14, 2020 9:28:30 GMT -6
My thoughts:
1. The punishment was fair and, I believe, effective for future deterrance.
2. Crane made the right choice in trying to start fresh. It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to let a few others go as well.
3. Luhnow may not have participated or had much knowledge, but he certainly knew enough that he shouldn't have turned a blind eye.
4. It sounds like Hinch tried to stop it without ratting his guys out. Being a player manager probably hurt him. After reading some more stuff I think he'll get another job fairly easily.
5. I think it was a nugget of an idea from the players based on what they knew other teams to be doing, and Cora and Beltran ran with it and blew it up. The players that took part in putting it in place should be penalized (I know they won't but they should). Obviously plenty of players knew about it, but nobody wanted to be a snitch. I hope that it wasn't that many that were taking part in actually using the stolen information, but we'll never know.
6. I wish some of the players would speak up in defense of Hinch. It kills me that some of them threw him under the bus when they KNEW he was against the use of it. Hopefully it was somebody like Fisher and not one of our key guys. We'll never know.
7. The problem is obviously far more wide spread, but we likely won't see other teams get hit with anything outside of Boston. Everybody will want to move on, and teams that had illegal operations set up will shut them down. It sucks that they were partially made an example of, but there is nobody to blame but themselves.
8. The best medicine is to have another fantastic year this season.
9. A bad choice was made, likely not very big at first, but it grew and got out of hand. People are always looking for as much of an advantage as they can get and they crossed the line. The line was initially a little bit in the grey area, but certainly wasn't after that September email from Manfred. There is an easy fix to sign stealing (and a great statement written by Tim Flannery about stuff they used to do) if the teams aren't lazy.
10. It's hard as a fan, but I will still look back on this era as the best baseball we've ever gotten to watch in Houston. There is a lot to be thankful for, and hopefully there is still some more really good baseball to watch for the next few seasons.
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Jan 14, 2020 9:33:03 GMT -6
Read the replies on Cora’s latest twitter post.... Those diversity hires will bite you in the cula every single time. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Jan 14, 2020 9:37:51 GMT -6
Totally unfair that Beltran escaped punishment. As one of the instigators of the cheating (and a crusty veteran who knew better) he should have received the same punishment as Hinch.
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Post by unionstation82 on Jan 14, 2020 10:15:01 GMT -6
The most disappointing thing about all this is the undermining and railroading of Hinch. He deserved better than that.
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Jan 14, 2020 10:16:11 GMT -6
This has interest up in our forum at least. Though most of them are shy.  |
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Post by sempersmom on Jan 14, 2020 10:25:45 GMT -6
Read the replies on Cora’s latest twitter post.... Those diversity hires will bite you in the cula every single time. It's culo. |
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Post by sempersmom on Jan 14, 2020 10:26:00 GMT -6
The most disappointing thing about all this is the undermining and railroading of Hinch. He deserved better than that. I agree 100%. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Jan 14, 2020 10:26:18 GMT -6
Well, I know all of you are anxious to hear my take......especially those who wanted us hung before the investigation was completed.
!. Luhnow is a lying SOB. He knew about it and is trying to cover his ass.
2. The main two culprits who should be suspended are Alex Cora and Carlos Beltran.......Cora is likely to get a more severe punishment than Hinch.
3. Hinch being a player's manager and not doing what was necessary to stop the crap led to his demise. He was guilty but also a victim to an extent.
4. I wish we knew the names of the players who threw Hinch under the bus, but, I doubt if we ever get the facts about that just like we never got facts regarding Correa's "back issues". If Correa had anything to do with this, I would like to see him neutered before being traded to the worst team possible.
5. Losing the top two draft choices for two years is the worst of all the punishments handed down and will have the longest lasting effect. This is why the best possible replacement for Luhnow needs to be hired and it doesnn't need to be some flunky who is currently in our front office.
6.It is VERY important to hire a manager that would not only be a knowledgeable baseball man but one preferably with ties to the Astros before this mess started. My choice is one who I doubt would take the job.........Craig Biggio. If he won't take it, my next choice would be Brad Ausmus. I would like to see what he could do if he had the players he needed to win......something he never had in Detroit or LA.
7. I want a bulls eye painted on that pathetic loser, Mike Fiers, and that he pays for starting this shit, Had he not been removed from the rotation and then dumped, he would have never opened his mouth. F*ck Fiers.
8. A good 2020 season would be the medicine needed to start recovering.
Now,for the part many won't like..........While I think the crap Crane pulled on the Ryan family was bullshit and a terrible PR move, I don't think he knew about this sign-stealing operation. Now is the time he is going to wish he had Nolan and Reid Ryan around to help smoothe this situation. They won't come back if he begged them and I don't blame them. This is on Crane. Crane needs to hire an experienced baseball man and not rely on his son wbo doesn't know squat about building a baseball team. Hiring a GM or manager from those currently employed would be a very bad decision. What Crane does in making those hires is crucial. We need to improve the roster and it will take the right man to do it.
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Post by unionstation82 on Jan 14, 2020 10:28:17 GMT -6
The most disappointing thing about all this is the undermining and railroading of Hinch. He deserved better than that. I agree 100%. People should place thank you cards on his lawn. The players should be ashamed of themselves. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Jan 14, 2020 10:28:23 GMT -6
Those of you who were adamant that this was all a devious plot by the media and NYY, and no way the angelic Astros heroes would ever cheat...are y'all gonna make omelets with all that egg you have on your faces? Are those of us whom you deemed "fake" or "bad" fans because we saw the writing on the wall allowed to reclaim our "real fan" status?
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Jan 14, 2020 10:29:13 GMT -6
Those diversity hires will bite you in the cula every single time. It's culo. I know. I was gonna fix it, but I forgot we had a Mexican on the forum who could catch my error  |
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Post by sempersmom on Jan 14, 2020 10:30:58 GMT -6
Those of you who were adamant that this was all a devious plot by the media and NYY, and no way the angelic Astros heroes would ever cheat...are y'all gonna make omelets with all that egg you have on your faces? Are those of us whom you deemed "fake" or "bad" fans because we saw the writing on the wall allowed to reclaim our "real fan" status? Whatever Tim. I still believe the media and NYY are behind this crap. They have just as much egg on their faces as the Astros. Why do they get a pass and we have to pay the ultimate price? |
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Post by sempersmom on Jan 14, 2020 10:31:39 GMT -6
I know. I was gonna fix it, but I forgot we had a Mexican on the forum who could catch my error Excuse me, I'm an American of Mexican descent. Get it right. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Jan 14, 2020 10:33:51 GMT -6
I know. I was gonna fix it, but I forgot we had a Mexican on the forum who could catch my error Excuse me, I'm an American of Mexican descent. Get it right. Oh yeah. My bad. |
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Post by Saint on Jan 14, 2020 10:42:45 GMT -6
Well, I know all of you are anxious to hear my take......especially those who wanted us hung before the investigation was completed. !. Luhnow is a lying SOB. He knew about it and is trying to cover his ass. 2. The main two culprits who should be suspended are Alex Cora and Carlos Beltran.......Cora is likely to get a more severe punishment than Hinch. 3. Hinch being a player's manager and not doing what was necessary to stop the crap led to his demise. He was guilty but also a victim to an extent. 4. I wish we knew the names of the players who threw Hinch under the bus, but, I doubt if we ever get the facts about that just like we never got facts regarding Correa's "back issues". If Correa had anything to do with this, I would like to see him neutered before being traded to the worst team possible. 5. Losing the top two draft choices for two years is the worst of all the punishments handed down and will have the longest lasting effect. This is why the best possible replacement for Luhnow needs to be hired and it doesnn't need to be some flunky who is currently in our front office. 6.It is VERY important to hire a manager that would not only be a knowledgeable baseball man but one preferably with ties to the Astros before this mess started. My choice is one who I doubt would take the job.........Craig Biggio. If he won't take it, my next choice would be Brad Ausmus. I would like to see what he could do if he had the players he needed to win......something he never had in Detroit or LA. 7. I want a bulls eye painted on that pathetic loser, Mike Fiers, and that he pays for starting this shit, Had he not been removed from the rotation and then dumped, he would have never opened his mouth. F*ck Fiers. 8. A good 2020 season would be the medicine needed to start recovering. Now,for the part many won't like..........While I think the crap Crane pulled on the Ryan family was bullshit and a terrible PR move, I don't think he knew about this sign-stealing operation. Now is the time he is going to wish he had Nolan and Reid Ryan around to help smoothe this situation. They won't come back if he begged them and I don't blame them. This is on Crane. Crane needs to hire an experienced baseball man and not rely on his son wbo doesn't know squat about building a baseball team. Hiring a GM or manager from those currently employed would be a very bad decision. What Crane does in making those hires is crucial. We need to improve the roster and it will take the right man to do it. They still have Reid Ryan in the organization. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Jan 14, 2020 10:45:24 GMT -6
Those of you who were adamant that this was all a devious plot by the media and NYY, and no way the angelic Astros heroes would ever cheat...are y'all gonna make omelets with all that egg you have on your faces? Are those of us whom you deemed "fake" or "bad" fans because we saw the writing on the wall allowed to reclaim our "real fan" status? Whatever Tim. I still believe the media and NYY are behind this crap. They have just as much egg on their faces as the Astros. Why do they get a pass and we have to pay the ultimate price? ***** Fans who did the right thing kept an open mind and were not ready to hang them before we knew the facts and the investigation was completed. Beating your chest and patting yourself on the back tells the story. Those of us who waited to know the facts don't have egg on our faces. The rest are not necessarily bad fans......just too quick to pull the trigger. Mom is 100% right....the media and the Yankees are behind this mess and need to remember that what goes around come around. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Jan 14, 2020 10:46:52 GMT -6
Well, I know all of you are anxious to hear my take......especially those who wanted us hung before the investigation was completed. !. Luhnow is a lying SOB. He knew about it and is trying to cover his ass. 2. The main two culprits who should be suspended are Alex Cora and Carlos Beltran.......Cora is likely to get a more severe punishment than Hinch. 3. Hinch being a player's manager and not doing what was necessary to stop the crap led to his demise. He was guilty but also a victim to an extent. 4. I wish we knew the names of the players who threw Hinch under the bus, but, I doubt if we ever get the facts about that just like we never got facts regarding Correa's "back issues". If Correa had anything to do with this, I would like to see him neutered before being traded to the worst team possible. 5. Losing the top two draft choices for two years is the worst of all the punishments handed down and will have the longest lasting effect. This is why the best possible replacement for Luhnow needs to be hired and it doesnn't need to be some flunky who is currently in our front office. 6.It is VERY important to hire a manager that would not only be a knowledgeable baseball man but one preferably with ties to the Astros before this mess started. My choice is one who I doubt would take the job.........Craig Biggio. If he won't take it, my next choice would be Brad Ausmus. I would like to see what he could do if he had the players he needed to win......something he never had in Detroit or LA. 7. I want a bulls eye painted on that pathetic loser, Mike Fiers, and that he pays for starting this shit, Had he not been removed from the rotation and then dumped, he would have never opened his mouth. F*ck Fiers. 8. A good 2020 season would be the medicine needed to start recovering. Now,for the part many won't like..........While I think the crap Crane pulled on the Ryan family was bullshit and a terrible PR move, I don't think he knew about this sign-stealing operation. Now is the time he is going to wish he had Nolan and Reid Ryan around to help smoothe this situation. They won't come back if he begged them and I don't blame them. This is on Crane. Crane needs to hire an experienced baseball man and not rely on his son wbo doesn't know squat about building a baseball team. Hiring a GM or manager from those currently employed would be a very bad decision. What Crane does in making those hires is crucial. We need to improve the roster and it will take the right man to do it. They still have Reid Ryan in the organization. I thought he left when Nolan did after Crane demoted him and gave junior Crane his job. In any case, Crane need to be on his hands and knees begging Nolan to come back and get Reid involved again. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Jan 14, 2020 10:47:44 GMT -6
Excuse me, I'm an American of Mexican descent. Get it right. Oh yeah. My bad. We also still have the Puerto Rican wimp at SS. |
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Post by m240 on Jan 14, 2020 10:54:23 GMT -6
I wonder if Stearns would come back to Houston. That would be the ticket. I think that Crane has his eyes on one of the Assistant GMs. It is a shame that Luhnow chose to turn a blind eye on the cheating and it is a shame that Hinch was such a puss and did not make Cora and Beltran stop with the crap. As an organization we get a black eye because a couple of clowns that were only here a short time used our organization to make a name for themselves. Luhnow changed the game. He really was a brilliant mind in the baseball industry and now he has a load of crap smeared on his reputation. But you know what, screw it, I am an Astros fan and my head with a hat on it is held high. Those ass clown jackasses are gone. We need to go out there a win another series this year and show everyone that the success of this team had nothing to do with what Cora and Beltran masterminded. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Jan 14, 2020 11:04:13 GMT -6
I'm hoping that since Cora cheated here AND in Boston, and Boston had already been warned about cheating in a similar manner, that Cora will be banned from the game and the Sox will receive similar punishment to what the Astros received.
2 strikes and you're out.
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