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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2020 11:11:30 GMT -6
Totally unfair that Beltran escaped punishment. As one of the instigators of the cheating (and a crusty veteran who knew better) he should have received the same punishment as Hinch. Rats turning states evidence usually get leniency, or Wit-Sec protection. Speaking of Wit-Sec..... Think Fiers will make an appearance in Houston this year? (Allegorically speaking of course) |
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Post by abregmanfan on Jan 14, 2020 11:11:35 GMT -6
That would be the ticket. I think that Crane has his eyes on one of the Assistant GMs. It is a shame that Luhnow chose to turn a blind eye on the cheating and it is a shame that Hinch was such a puss and did not make Cora and Beltran stop with the crap. As an organization we get a black eye because a couple of clowns that were only here a short time used our organization to make a name for themselves. Luhnow changed the game. He really was a brilliant mind in the baseball industry and now he has a load of crap smeared on his reputation. But you know what, screw it, I am an Astros fan and my head with a hat on it is held high. Those ass clown jackasses are gone. We need to go out there a win another series this year and show everyone that the success of this team had nothing to do with what Cora and Beltran masterminded. ***** |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Jan 14, 2020 11:15:08 GMT -6
Totally unfair that Beltran escaped punishment. As one of the instigators of the cheating (and a crusty veteran who knew better) he should have received the same punishment as Hinch. Rats turning states evidence usually get leniency, or Wit-Sec protection. Speaking of Wit-Sec..... Think Fiers will make an appearance in Houston this year? (Allegorically speaking of course) He better hope he doesn't forget his earplugs. Of course, the Astros are going to be ridiculed by every fanbase on the road this season. It's going to be a test of their mettle as men. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2020 11:17:43 GMT -6
Well, I know all of you are anxious to hear my take......especially those who wanted us hung before the investigation was completed. !. Luhnow is a lying SOB. He knew about it and is trying to cover his ass. Come on Coach.... 70,000 emails combed through an no evidence of culpability? Soemtimes I don't know where you come up with. this stuff. Plus, realize who put this team together and got us here. So soon people forget. |
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Post by bannedfan on Jan 14, 2020 11:22:23 GMT -6
That would be the ticket. I think that Crane has his eyes on one of the Assistant GMs. It is a shame that Luhnow chose to turn a blind eye on the cheating and it is a shame that Hinch was such a puss and did not make Cora and Beltran stop with the crap. As an organization we get a black eye because a couple of clowns that were only here a short time used our organization to make a name for themselves. Luhnow changed the game. He really was a brilliant mind in the baseball industry and now he has a load of crap smeared on his reputation. But you know what, screw it, I am an Astros fan and my head with a hat on it is held high. Those ass clown jackasses are gone. We need to go out there a win another series this year and show everyone that the success of this team had nothing to do with what Cora and Beltran masterminded. The Astro players are to blame for going along with this and they're still here. I've lost respect for them. If they were such a great team why even resort to cheating? They got caught and will endure fans ripping them in away games. I wish they could part ways with all of them and start over.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2020 11:24:25 GMT -6
That would be the ticket. I think that Crane has his eyes on one of the Assistant GMs. It is a shame that Luhnow chose to turn a blind eye on the cheating and it is a shame that Hinch was such a puss and did not make Cora and Beltran stop with the crap. As an organization we get a black eye because a couple of clowns that were only here a short time used our organization to make a name for themselves. Luhnow changed the game. He really was a brilliant mind in the baseball industry and now he has a load of crap smeared on his reputation. But you know what, screw it, I am an Astros fan and my head with a hat on it is held high. Those ass clown jackasses are gone. We need to go out there a win another series this year and show everyone that the success of this team had nothing to do with what Cora and Beltran masterminded. Did you read Luhnow's and the COB's statement? Just where did it say he was involved, or turned a blind eye? I hope filtering through 70,000 emails wasn't for naught, because there was nothing there to prove his involvement. His firing is a Crane knee jerk reaction to clean house He is the GM and of course is accountable for his staff, needed some form of sanction, but to make accusations like you just made is plain wrong. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2020 11:30:58 GMT -6
I want full blown GD accountibiity for this shit......
Jm Crane..... Sell this f__king team.
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Jan 14, 2020 11:36:48 GMT -6
I want full blown GD accountibiity for this shit...... Jm Crane..... Sell this f__king team. Are you drinking this early? In one post, you go on and on about how Luhnow has deniability and we shouldn't be painting everyone with the same brush. Then you immediately throw Jim Crane under the bus with profanity and wishes for bad things to happen. How is Luhnow nonculpable but Crane is the great Satan who knew it all along? |
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Post by bearbryant on Jan 14, 2020 11:36:59 GMT -6
I agree with Catfish. The 1-year suspensions were a just sentence, but Hinch and Luhnow shouldn't have been fired. They weren't the instigators
Crane is dumb
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2020 11:39:40 GMT -6
I want full blown GD accountibiity for this shit...... Jm Crane..... Sell this f__king team. Are you drinking this early? In one post, you go on and on about how Luhnow has deniability and we shouldn't be painting everyone with the same brush. Then you immediately throw Jim Crane under the bus with profanity and wishes for bad things to happen. How is Luhnow nonculpable but Crane is the great Satan who knew it all along? Lay off the reefer Borty. Culpabilty and Accountabilty are two different concepts. If it's good for Luhnow, it needs to apply to Crane. Or vice versa. (i.e firing) Crane thinks he is exempt from this I guess |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Jan 14, 2020 11:40:32 GMT -6
Are you drinking this early? In one post, you go on and on about how Luhnow has deniability and we shouldn't be painting everyone with the same brush. Then you immediately throw Jim Crane under the bus with profanity and wishes for bad things to happen. How is Luhnow nonculpable but Crane is the great Satan who knew it all along? Lay off the reefer Borty. Culpabilty and Accountabilty are two different concepts. If it's good for Luhnow, it needs to apply to Crane. Or vice versa. (i.e firing) Difference being, Luhnow probably knew about it and Crane probably didn't |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2020 11:43:13 GMT -6
Lay off the reefer Borty. Culpabilty and Accountabilty are two different concepts. If it's good for Luhnow, it needs to apply to Crane. Or vice versa. (i.e firing) Difference being, Luhnow probably knew about it and Crane probably didn't Probably? After 70,000 emails?, and no evidence? Where is your proof? And if Luhnow knew, whose not to say Crane didn't either? He was sitting behind the plate most games. He didn't hear the trash cans? |
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Post by bearbryant on Jan 14, 2020 11:43:38 GMT -6
Totally unfair that Beltran escaped punishment. As one of the instigators of the cheating (and a crusty veteran who knew better) he should have received the same punishment as Hinch. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2020 11:47:15 GMT -6
Totally unfair that Beltran escaped punishment. As one of the instigators of the cheating (and a crusty veteran who knew better) he should have received the same punishment as Hinch. Would have loved to have heard his testimony to MLB. A Coach? I bet the first document he provided was his union card. |
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Post by Saint on Jan 14, 2020 11:48:09 GMT -6
For anybody in here that has been the leader of a team, department, organization, etc. you know that the ups and downs are on you. You may not be the one doing it, but it's your people. I don't have a problem with the leaders being held accountable (especially since that's what Manfred warned the league he would do), but I think some of the players/instigators should be penalized as well, if it can be known who did what.
It sounds like Crane didn't know it was going on and is legitimately upset by it, but he certainly has had a role in some of the recent negative attention the team has received. I will always believe that people of that amount of wealth have had to get their hands at least a little dirty at some point. Right or wrong, Crane owns the team and it's his to control. I feel worse for Hinch than Luhnow, but they're smart and capable. They'll find their way out of this. But, it was made clear they would be held responsible. If I'm in their shoes, I'm doing what it takes to make sure I don't get caught up in it. They either looked the other way (Hinch) and/or got lazy/didn't care enough (Luhnow).
Hopefully Crane makes good choices on their replacements and we can all move on from this.
I hope Beltran gets canned and Cora gets banned. Boston better have a damn similar punishment for their 2018 nonsense as well.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2020 11:57:39 GMT -6
It sounds like Crane didn't know it was going on and is legitimately upset by it, Good post, but I do want to bring up a few facts to this matter. for consideration 1. I figure Crane attended 50-65 games a year on average the past 3 or 4 years. 2. Distance from his box behind hime plate to Astros dugout- 100-120 feet 3. Distance from GM box to dugout 200 feet(?) plus angles and additional crowd noise. So let me get this straight.... In the past 3 years Crane has attended about 150-200 games, and never noticed the strange so called banging from the dugout? Seems to me, he should have been more suspicious than Luhnow. His faux outrage is appalling. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Jan 14, 2020 12:07:07 GMT -6
Well, I know all of you are anxious to hear my take......especially those who wanted us hung before the investigation was completed. !. Luhnow is a lying SOB. He knew about it and is trying to cover his ass. Come on Coach.... 70,000 emails combed through an no evidence of culpability? Soemtimes I don't know where you come up with. this stuff. Plus, realize who put this team together and got us here. So soon people forget. I am not forgetting the work Luhnow did putting this team together and I am not belittling it. I just happen to think he is lying when he says he knew nothing about any of it. If he did in fact know nothing as he claims, he was negiigent in knowing what was going on arojnd him regarding the team. When the bench coach devises this type of sign-stealing operation and it was known by Hinch and the players., it is inconceivable that Luhnow was completely in the dark about it. I also hghly doubt that most of those 70,000 emails were ever read. |
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Post by Saint on Jan 14, 2020 12:08:22 GMT -6
It sounds like Crane didn't know it was going on and is legitimately upset by it, Good post, but I do want to bring up a few facts to this matter. for consideration 1. I figure Crane attended 50-65 games a year on average the past 3 or 4 years. 2. Distance from his box behind hime plate to Astros dugout- 100-120 feet 3. Distance from GM box to dugout 200 feet(?) plus angles and additional crowd noise. So let me get this straight.... In the past 3 years Crane has attended about 150-200 games, and never noticed the strange so called banging from the dugout? Seems to me, he should have been more suspicious than Luhnow. His faux outrage is appalling. I believe it was reported that he told his FO to look into it and/or cut out any sign stealing shenanigans (if there were any) after Manfred sent out his memorandum in Sep. I don't remember where I read that now. I'm not saying it isn't possible, but there is no proof that he knew anything about it. And most of us here go to multiple games and watch almost all of them on TV. None of us noticed anything either. |
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Post by Saint on Jan 14, 2020 12:09:42 GMT -6
Luhnow may not have "oficially known" about it. But as a leader, he should have looked into it when the rumors started popping up which led to Manfred notifying all the organizations about the sign-stealing. That's the main issue with him. Take responsibility for not doing enough.
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Post by m240 on Jan 14, 2020 12:10:00 GMT -6
I think that Crane has his eyes on one of the Assistant GMs. It is a shame that Luhnow chose to turn a blind eye on the cheating and it is a shame that Hinch was such a puss and did not make Cora and Beltran stop with the crap. As an organization we get a black eye because a couple of clowns that were only here a short time used our organization to make a name for themselves. Luhnow changed the game. He really was a brilliant mind in the baseball industry and now he has a load of crap smeared on his reputation. But you know what, screw it, I am an Astros fan and my head with a hat on it is held high. Those ass clown jackasses are gone. We need to go out there a win another series this year and show everyone that the success of this team had nothing to do with what Cora and Beltran masterminded. Did you read Luhnow's and the COB's statement? Just where did it say he was involved, or turned a blind eye? I hope filtering through 70,000 emails wasn't for naught, because there was nothing there to prove his involvement. His firing is a Crane knee jerk reaction to clean house He is the GM and of course is accountable for his staff, needed some form of sanction, but to make accusations like you just made is plain wrong. Luhnow was the General Manager. As such Hinch reported to him. Hinch is the one with first hand knowledge of the cheating and he, by all accounts only smashed a couple of monitors instead of directly confronting the situation. Also Hinch either did not tell Luhnow what happened as a heads up or Hinch may have tried to and Luhnow told him to go away. Either way Luhnow did not have the correct communications channels open so that he had a pulse of what was going on at various levels of the organization. So Luhnow screwed up. Great mind, bad mistake, blind eye by omission or commission. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Jan 14, 2020 12:14:53 GMT -6
Luhnow may not have "oficially known" about it. But as a leader, he should have looked into it when the rumors started popping up which led to Manfred notifying all the organizations about the sign-stealing. That's the main issue with him. Take responsibility for not doing enough. ***** |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2020 12:15:07 GMT -6
Come on Coach.... 70,000 emails combed through an no evidence of culpability? Soemtimes I don't know where you come up with. this stuff. Plus, realize who put this team together and got us here. So soon people forget. I am not forgetting the work Luhnow did putting this team together and I am not belittling it. I just happen to think he is lying when he says he knew nothing about any of it. If he did in fact know nothing as he claims, he was negiigent in knowing what was going on arojnd him regarding the team. When the bench coach devises this type of sign-stealing operation and it was known by Hinch and the players., it is inconceivable that Luhnow was completely in the dark about it. I also hghly doubt that most of those 70,000 emails were ever read. "I just happen to think he is lying when he says he knew nothing about any of it. If he did in fact know nothing as he claims, he was negiigent in knowing what was going on arojnd him regarding the team." Before retiring I was a manager with about 30 employees and 100 contractors. You really think I was able to keep up with each of them every day, 8 hours a day? I addressed wrongdoing and mistakes as noticed, but do you think I stopped or found everyone of them? That is just crazy. "I also hghly doubt that most of those 70,000 emails were ever read." In the era of search algorithms and filters.... Beleive me...... If anything was to be found, it would have been. |
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Post by Saint on Jan 14, 2020 12:16:28 GMT -6
Did you read Luhnow's and the COB's statement? Just where did it say he was involved, or turned a blind eye? I hope filtering through 70,000 emails wasn't for naught, because there was nothing there to prove his involvement. His firing is a Crane knee jerk reaction to clean house He is the GM and of course is accountable for his staff, needed some form of sanction, but to make accusations like you just made is plain wrong. Luhnow was the General Manager. As such Hinch reported to him. Hinch is the one with first hand knowledge of the cheating and he, by all accounts only smashed a couple of monitors instead of directly confronting the situation. Also Hinch either did not tell Luhnow what happened as a heads up or Hinch may have tried to and Luhnow told him to go away. Either way Luhnow did not have the correct communications channels open so that he had a pulse of what was going on at various levels of the organization. So Luhnow screwed up. Great mind, bad mistake, blind eye by omission or commission. "Great mind, bad mistake, blind eye by omission or commission." And there it is. |
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Post by m240 on Jan 14, 2020 12:17:39 GMT -6
I agree with Catfish. The 1-year suspensions were a just sentence, but Hinch and Luhnow shouldn't have been fired. They weren't the instigators
Crane is dumb
I agree that firing Luhnow may be considered a mistake. Firing Hinch was not. Hinch knew, he knew and he let it continue without pulling those two mullets into his office and reading them the riot act. Absolutely unforgivable. Luhnow did show a major weakness in this and maybe for Crane that was enough. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2020 12:17:53 GMT -6
Luhnow may not have "oficially known" about it. But as a leader, he should have looked into it when the rumors started popping up which led to Manfred notifying all the organizations about the sign-stealing. That's the main issue with him. Take responsibility for not doing enough. Trying to get a solid time line here. When did the rumours start? I didn't hear about it until the end of the '19 season. Do you have evidence otherwise? Not saying you are wrong, but that kind of information shoulld have been extracted during the investigation. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2020 12:19:09 GMT -6
I agree with Catfish. The 1-year suspensions were a just sentence, but Hinch and Luhnow shouldn't have been fired. They weren't the instigators
Crane is dumb
I agree that firing Luhnow may be considered a mistake. Firing Hinch was not. Hinch knew, he knew and he let it continue without pulling those two mullets into his office and reading them the riot act. Absolutely unforgivable. Luhnow did show a major weakness in this and maybe for Crane that was enough. No doubt Hinch knew. He was in the dugout. His firing was deserved. |
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Post by Saint on Jan 14, 2020 12:21:52 GMT -6
Luhnow may not have "oficially known" about it. But as a leader, he should have looked into it when the rumors started popping up which led to Manfred notifying all the organizations about the sign-stealing. That's the main issue with him. Take responsibility for not doing enough. Trying to get a solid time line here. When did the rumours start? I didn't hear about it until the end of the '19 season. Do you have evidence otherwise? Not saying you are wrong, but that kind of information shoulld have been extracted during the investigation. Even during the 2018 postseason Cleveland was supposedly warning Boston about us. And do you remember the Astros employee that got taking pictures of the opposing duguout in the playoffs? Luhnow made some excuse about us looking for them cheating. And didn't that White Sox pitcher Farraquar (sp?) report something in 2017 with the banging? |
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Post by bannedfan on Jan 14, 2020 12:23:11 GMT -6
It sounds like Crane didn't know it was going on and is legitimately upset by it, Good post, but I do want to bring up a few facts to this matter. for consideration 1. I figure Crane attended 50-65 games a year on average the past 3 or 4 years. 2. Distance from his box behind hime plate to Astros dugout- 100-120 feet 3. Distance from GM box to dugout 200 feet(?) plus angles and additional crowd noise. So let me get this straight.... In the past 3 years Crane has attended about 150-200 games, and never noticed the strange so called banging from the dugout? Seems to me, he should have been more suspicious than Luhnow. His faux outrage is appalling. How did Julia Morales not hear the banging? |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Jan 14, 2020 12:30:33 GMT -6
Difference being, Luhnow probably knew about it and Crane probably didn't Probably? After 70,000 emails?, and no evidence? Where is your proof? And if Luhnow knew, whose not to say Crane didn't either? He was sitting behind the plate most games. He didn't hear the trash cans? My proof is sitting right next to yours. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Jan 14, 2020 12:31:55 GMT -6
Totally unfair that Beltran escaped punishment. As one of the instigators of the cheating (and a crusty veteran who knew better) he should have received the same punishment as Hinch. Holy schnikes...we agreed on something! |
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