GDT: Blue Jays vs. Astros, 6/25/2018

[unionstation82]

WHY LEAVE IT UP TO THE UMPIRE?

[unionstation82]

I’m getting sick of these ridiculously patient at-bats the team is putting up. Do they not want to hit the ball?

[Saint]

Very bad ABs by Bregman and Altuve to end. Disappointing.

[astrosdoug]

Kind of makes you think Kemp and Reddick should have been in the lineup over Springer-Marisnick from the get-go huh?

[Saint]

Get em tomorrow...

[unionstation82]

Jun 25, 2018 21:23:40 GMT -6 Saint said:

Very bad ABs by Bregman and Altuve to end. Disappointing.

Bregman needs to do some BP against a bunch of high fastballs. The rest of the team needs to face nothing but sliders out of the zone.

[olpapa]

Meanwhile in Fresno, Tucker is 2-2 with a home run so far tonight and 30-58 in his last 14 games, including the 2-2 tonight.

[unionstation82]

Jun 25, 2018 21:24:43 GMT -6 olpapa said:

Meanwhile in Fresno, Tucker is 2-2 with a home run so far tonight and 30-58 in his last 14 games, including the 2-2 tonight.

But he has to fail first.

[blcoach8]

I have to feel bad for Springer when he was robbed of that game-tying home runs. If that fan with the glove had known what to do with it, George would have the home run and we would have had a tie game. Other fans out there should have let that guy know in plain lanuage how he messed up.

George is so frustrated that he needs to sit......but, I'm sure sweety is waiting at home to see if he can hit a home run there.

[olpapa]

Jun 25, 2018 21:25:29 GMT -6 unionstation82 said:

Jun 25, 2018 21:24:43 GMT -6 olpapa said:

Meanwhile in Fresno, Tucker is 2-2 with a home run so far tonight and 30-58 in his last 14 games, including the 2-2 tonight.

But he has to fail first.

I don’t know how Tucker, Randy Cesar and Yordan Alvarez think they are going to get anywhere hitting like they are. 

[astrosdoug]

The Astros are now 22-13 (.628) in games with Marisnick in the starting lineup.

Maybe Hinch feels that is good enough reason to keep running him out there. But I have to think that Kemp would have provided more spark throughout the game.

The other interesting stat is: The Astros are 18-7 (.720) in games where Marisnick is used as a late-inning sub. Statistically, things tend to turn out better when Marisnick subs late in the game.

[blcoach8]

Jun 25, 2018 21:30:00 GMT -6 olpapa said:

Jun 25, 2018 21:25:29 GMT -6 unionstation82 said:

But he has to fail first.

I don’t know how Tucker, Randy Cesar and Yordan Alvarez think they are going to get anywhere hitting like they are. 

especially with Jake, White, and Marisnick hammering the ball in Houston.

[blcoach8]

Good. Hinch is about to be on the post-game show with his standard line of excuses. Just once, I wish he would be honest.

[paastrosfan]

Jun 25, 2018 21:30:00 GMT -6 olpapa said:

Jun 25, 2018 21:25:29 GMT -6 unionstation82 said:

But he has to fail first.

I don’t know how Tucker, Randy Cesar and Yordan Alvarez think they are going to get anywhere hitting like they are. 

A good example on the Nats bringing up Soto, they said he was suppose to receive his plaque for being player of the month in the Carolina league Class A and he is in the Nats starting Line up.

[blcoach8]

Putting a dud like Harris in with only a one-run deficit put the nails in the coffin. He and Giles are garbage.'

But, not to worry, AJ just said Harris will be there when he's needed.    I thought he was needed tonight and he did what he has done all year.........cost us the game or get us so far behind we can't come back. 

[astrosdoug]

Harris is starting to put up numbers similar to James Hoyt last season, insofar as he has a huge gap between his ERA and his xFIP or 'expected ERA'. Based on his strikeouts, groundball rate, swings & misses generated, etc., the computer models expect Harris should have an ERA around 2.27. But in reality it's over 4.00.

Hoyt had the same thing going last year, where he'd make good pitches 90% of the time but give up HRs the other 10% of the time.

Who knows, if some team out there puts a lot of value in stats like xFIP, maybe they want to make Luhnow an offer for Harris. The best trades are usually ones where your internal valuation of a player varies significantly with the trading partner's valuation.

[olpapa]

Jun 25, 2018 21:35:00 GMT -6 paastrosfan said:

Jun 25, 2018 21:30:00 GMT -6 olpapa said:

I don’t know how Tucker, Randy Cesar and Yordan Alvarez think they are going to get anywhere hitting like they are. 

A good example on the Nats bringing up Soto, they said he was suppose to receive his plaque for being player of the month in the Carolina league Class A and he is in the Nats starting Line up.

Yessir. I think Soto is one of the prospects the Marlins demanded for Realmuto in the same way they reportedly demanded Tucker and/or Whitley (depending on who you want to believe) from the Astros. 

[marshall]

Jun 25, 2018 20:58:58 GMT -6 Saint said:

I know we're all feeling negative, but we should remember that we're tied to be the best team in baseball. Just a little bit of a rough patch.

They'll get out of this funk.

Just as soon as they hit the road again...

[astrosdoug]

Springer's near-HR traveled 368 ft.

He didn't get all of it; exit velo was only 98 mph and launch angle was 35 degrees.

A couple more mph or a couple degrees less on the angle, and it's out. Still would only have tied the game.

[astrosdoug]

Granderson's two HRs were a bit on the shaky side; they had hit probabilities of 26% and 17%. The dimensions of MMP helped him greatly -- he wouldn't have gotten the same results at most major league parks.

[unionstation82]

Jun 25, 2018 21:29:11 GMT -6 blcoach8 said:

I have to feel bad for Springer when he was robbed of that game-tying home runs. If that fan with the glove had known what to do with it, George would have the home run and we would have had a tie game. Other fans out there should have let that guy know in plain lanuage how he messed up.

George is so frustrated that he needs to sit......but, I'm sure sweety is waiting at home to see if he can hit a home run there.

I just feel that if the home team has a chance at a homer, fans have an obligation to try and steal the ball from the fielder. Of course, I bet if it were the opposition trying to homer, some idiot fan would’ve interfered, but they part like the Red Sea when an Astro tries to go deep.

[blcoach8]

Jun 26, 2018 4:47:47 GMT -6 unionstation82 said:

Jun 25, 2018 21:29:11 GMT -6 blcoach8 said:

I have to feel bad for Springer when he was robbed of that game-tying home runs. If that fan with the glove had known what to do with it, George would have the home run and we would have had a tie game. Other fans out there should have let that guy know in plain lanuage how he messed up.

George is so frustrated that he needs to sit......but, I'm sure sweety is waiting at home to see if he can hit a home run there.

I just feel that if the home team has a chance at a homer, fans have an obligation to try and steal the ball from the fielder. Of course, I bet if it were the opposition trying to homer, some idiot fan would’ve interfered, but they part like the Red Sea when an Astro tries to go deep.

That fzn did nothing to try t o prevent the outfielder from making the catch.  He had to reach over the wall to get it so the fan would not have been guilty of interfering if he had prevented the catch.  Instead, he backed off and the catch was made.  Some of the other fans should have jumped his ass.

[unionstation82]

Jun 26, 2018 8:18:18 GMT -6 blcoach8 said:

Jun 26, 2018 4:47:47 GMT -6 unionstation82 said:

I just feel that if the home team has a chance at a homer, fans have an obligation to try and steal the ball from the fielder. Of course, I bet if it were the opposition trying to homer, some idiot fan would’ve interfered, but they part like the Red Sea when an Astro tries to go deep.

That fzn did nothing to try t o prevent the outfielder from making the catch.  He had to reach over the wall to get it so the fan would not have been guilty of interfering if he had prevented the catch.  Instead, he backed off and the catch was made.  Some of the other fans should have jumped his ass.

I wouldn’t go that far, but he should at least be given a lot of hell for it.

[blcoach8]

Jun 26, 2018 10:35:17 GMT -6 unionstation82 said:

Jun 26, 2018 8:18:18 GMT -6 blcoach8 said:

That fzn did nothing to try t o prevent the outfielder from making the catch.  He had to reach over the wall to get it so the fan would not have been guilty of interfering if he had prevented the catch.  Instead, he backed off and the catch was made.  Some of the other fans should have jumped his ass.

I wouldn’t go that far, but he should at least be given a lot of hell for it.

All the idiot had to do was slap the ball away with his glove and George had a three-run homer.  The outfielder reached OVER the wall to make the catch.  This fan may have cost us the game by being stupid.

[astrosdoug]

Jun 26, 2018 11:17:33 GMT -6 blcoach8 said:

Jun 26, 2018 10:35:17 GMT -6 unionstation82 said:

I wouldn’t go that far, but he should at least be given a lot of hell for it.

All the idiot had to do was slap the ball away with his glove and George had a three-run homer.  The outfielder reached OVER the wall to make the catch.  This fan may have cost us the game by being stupid.

It happened a couple times down the stretch in 2015 I can remember. Fans interfering with balls hit by the Astros, or failing to go after balls hit into the stands by the opposition.

It's symptomatic of the whole disease foisted upon the public in recent years -- moving politely aside while others invade your space. Just ask the Spaniards how well that worked out for them in the 8th century. They eventually sorted it out, but it took them quite a long time.  

[marshall]

Jun 26, 2018 8:18:18 GMT -6 blcoach8 said:

Jun 26, 2018 4:47:47 GMT -6 unionstation82 said:

I just feel that if the home team has a chance at a homer, fans have an obligation to try and steal the ball from the fielder. Of course, I bet if it were the opposition trying to homer, some idiot fan would’ve interfered, but they part like the Red Sea when an Astro tries to go deep.

That fzn did nothing to try t o prevent the outfielder from making the catch.  He had to reach over the wall to get it so the fan would not have been guilty of interfering if he had prevented the catch.  Instead, he backed off and the catch was made.  Some of the other fans should have jumped his ass.

I watched it several times. I don't think it was into the stands as much as it was caught above the line. It was close and the fans tried to stay in their own territory so as not to interfere with a ball in play. One was a kid and one was a man reaching out as far as he dared without interfering over the field rather than over the stands.

[marshall]

An interesting thought is whether the fan interference rule is dependent on whether the home team or the opposition hits the ball in play. Would a fan of the home team interfere just to get a ground rule extra base or be allowed to get an out call by interfering with the opposition?

I need to look more closely at fan interference and how it's handled.

ps After reading a few articles, I have concluded Fan Interference always works to the advantage of the Yankees.

[blcoach8]

Jun 26, 2018 12:38:25 GMT -6 marshall said:

Jun 26, 2018 8:18:18 GMT -6 blcoach8 said:

That fzn did nothing to try t o prevent the outfielder from making the catch.  He had to reach over the wall to get it so the fan would not have been guilty of interfering if he had prevented the catch.  Instead, he backed off and the catch was made.  Some of the other fans should have jumped his ass.

I watched it several times. I don't think it was into the stands as much as it was caught above the line. It was close and the fans tried to stay in their own territory so as not to interfere with a ball in play. One was a kid and one was a man reaching out as far as he dared without interfering over the field rather than over the stands.

The replays I saw showed the outfielder with his glove extended over the wall going for the ball. Fans are entitled to any ball that is out of the field of play and that ball was definitely out of the field of play.

[marshall]

Jun 26, 2018 12:59:48 GMT -6 blcoach8 said:

Jun 26, 2018 12:38:25 GMT -6 marshall said:

I watched it several times. I don't think it was into the stands as much as it was caught above the line. It was close and the fans tried to stay in their own territory so as not to interfere with a ball in play. One was a kid and one was a man reaching out as far as he dared without interfering over the field rather than over the stands.

The replays I saw showed the outfielder with his glove extended over the wall going for the ball. Fans are entitled to any ball that is out of the field of play and that ball was definitely out of the field of play.

The views I saw did nor show the fan side plane of the wall being breached by the player or the ball, though the ball might have done so before reaching the top of the wall. The player certainly was above the line by about 2 feet, but I didn't see him break the fan side plane.

[olpapa]

Jun 26, 2018 12:59:48 GMT -6 blcoach8 said:

Jun 26, 2018 12:38:25 GMT -6 marshall said:

I watched it several times. I don't think it was into the stands as much as it was caught above the line. It was close and the fans tried to stay in their own territory so as not to interfere with a ball in play. One was a kid and one was a man reaching out as far as he dared without interfering over the field rather than over the stands.

The replays I saw showed the outfielder with his glove extended over the wall going for the ball. Fans are entitled to any ball that is out of the field of play and that ball was definitely out of the field of play.

Here you go folks. From the 2018 Edition of MLB Rules:

“Rule 6.01(e) (e) Spectator Interference
When there is spectator interference with any thrown or batted ball, the ball shall be dead at the moment of interference and the umpire shall impose such penalties as in his opinion will nullify the act of interference.
APPROVED RULING: If spectator interference clearly pre- vents a fielder from catching a fly ball, the umpire shall declare the batter out.


Rule 6.01(e) Comment: There is a difference between a ball which has been thrown or batted into the stands, touching a spectator thereby being out of play even though it rebounds onto the field and a spectator going onto the field or reaching over, under or through a barrier and touching a ball in play or touching or otherwise interfering with a player. In the latter case it is clearly intentional and shall be dealt with as inten- tional interference as in Rule 6.01(d). Batter and runners shall be placed where in the umpire’s judgment they would have been had the interference not occurred.

No interference shall be allowed when a fielder reaches over a fence, railing, rope or into a stand to catch a ball. He does so at his own risk. However, should a spectator reach out on the playing field side of such fence, railing or rope, and plainly prevent the fielder from catching the ball, then the batsman should be called out for the spectator’s interference.

EXAMPLE: Runner on third base, one out and a batter hits a fly ball deep to the outfield (fair or foul). Spectator clearly interferes with the outfielder attempting to catch the fly ball. Umpire calls the batter out for spectator interference. Ball is dead at the time of the call. Umpire decides that because of the distance the ball was hit, the runner on third base would have scored after the catch if the fielder had caught the ball which was interfered with, therefore, the runner is permitted to score. This might not be the case if such fly ball was interfered with a short distance from home plate.”

The key phrase in the above rule as it applies to this discussion is:

”...., should a spectator reach out ON THE PLAYING FIELD SIDE of such fence, railing or rope, and plainly prevent the fielder from catching the ball, then the batsman should be called out for the spectator’s interference.” 

Clearly, that area directly above the fence or railing is not considered a part of the playing field for purposes of application of the fan interference rule. Only the area “ON THE PLAYING FIELD SIDE” of the fence or railing is considered part of the playing field for purposes of the fan interference rule. So, once a fielder’s glove breaks the plane of the area directly above the fence, a fan can swat the ball away from or out of the fielders glove and there is no spectator interference. So..., on Springers near home run last night..., did the fielder’s glove break the plane of the area directly above the fence or did it not?