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Post by olpapa on Jul 3, 2018 13:55:21 GMT -6
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Post by olpapa on Jul 3, 2018 13:58:41 GMT -6
You don't even need WAR to compare the two. Using just offensive numbers Trout is ahead of Altuve. It's like comparing Bagwell and Biggio in their primes. Biggio was great and gritty, but Bagwell was hands down the best and most important player on our team during those years. Speaking of Bagwell and hands..., he lost a lot of time in his prime to the busted hand those two years. |
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Post by Saint on Jul 3, 2018 14:01:13 GMT -6
You don't even need WAR to compare the two. Using just offensive numbers Trout is ahead of Altuve. It's like comparing Bagwell and Biggio in their primes. Biggio was great and gritty, but Bagwell was hands down the best and most important player on our team during those years. Speaking of Bagwell and hands..., he lost a lot of time in his prime to the busted hand those two years. Yup. Health issues almost kept him out of the Hall. If he had stayed healthy those two years he would have been sniffing 500 HRs (that and not playing in the Astrodome the first several years of his career). Imagine if he played in New Yankee stadium like Judge is? |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Jul 3, 2018 14:01:31 GMT -6
You don't even need WAR to compare the two. Using just offensive numbers Trout is ahead of Altuve. It's like comparing Bagwell and Biggio in their primes. Biggio was great and gritty, but Bagwell was hands down the best and most important player on our team during those years. Yeah, but Bags was a doper. |
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Post by Saint on Jul 3, 2018 14:02:00 GMT -6
You don't even need WAR to compare the two. Using just offensive numbers Trout is ahead of Altuve. It's like comparing Bagwell and Biggio in their primes. Biggio was great and gritty, but Bagwell was hands down the best and most important player on our team during those years. Yeah, but Bags was a doper. No, but he was a drunk. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Jul 3, 2018 14:04:46 GMT -6
Yeah, but Bags was a doper. No, but he was a drunk. Huh...I thought it was pretty much accepted that he used PED. He's my favorite player, ever, and I dont care if he doped (they all did, mostly). I wish he'd stay out of the TV booth, though. He's not good at it. |
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Post by Saint on Jul 3, 2018 14:08:16 GMT -6
Huh...I thought it was pretty much accepted that he used PED. He's my favorite player, ever, and I dont care if he doped (they all did, mostly). I wish he'd stay out of the TV booth, though. He's not good at it. He admitted to using stuff but I don't think it was anything ever considered illegal or inappropriate. If it we're I can't see him getting in and not McG and others. |
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Post by olpapa on Jul 3, 2018 14:16:09 GMT -6
Yeah, but Bags was a doper. No, but he was a drunk. Correction: ...No, but he is a drunk. |
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Post by Saint on Jul 3, 2018 14:17:48 GMT -6
Correction: ...No, but he is a drunk. True. |
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Post by olpapa on Jul 3, 2018 14:20:03 GMT -6
Correction: ...No, but he is a drunk. True. Of course if being a drunk was a reason for exclusion from the HOF, the M boys...Mickey and Milo...wouldn’t be there. |
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Post by Saint on Jul 3, 2018 14:21:46 GMT -6
Of course if being a drunk was a reason for exclusion from the HOF, the M boys...Mickey and Milo...wouldn’t be there. And no telling how many others. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Jul 3, 2018 14:26:35 GMT -6
Where is the evidence that Bagwell was a doper or a drunk? I always thought he may have been a drunk and some thought he used PED's...but, as far as I know, there was no evidence that he used them. Main negatives I heard about Bagwell was his knack for marrying trashy women and not liking to sign autographs for fans.
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Jul 3, 2018 14:29:33 GMT -6
He didn't fail any tests. That's all that matters.
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Jul 3, 2018 14:30:56 GMT -6
I thought it was Berkman who didn't want to sign autographs because people just sold them on Ebay.
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Post by Saint on Jul 3, 2018 14:42:16 GMT -6
I never had issues getting autographs from Bagwell as a kid. Was too old to try for Berkman unless it was at a show.
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Post by bearbryant on Jul 3, 2018 14:48:24 GMT -6
Huh...I thought it was pretty much accepted that he used PED. He's my favorite player, ever, and I dont care if he doped (they all did, mostly). I wish he'd stay out of the TV booth, though. He's not good at it. He admitted to using stuff but I don't think it was anything ever considered illegal or inappropriate. If it we're I can't see him getting in and not McG and others. |
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Post by Saint on Jul 3, 2018 14:56:43 GMT -6
Yeah, I feel like if some of the guys just came out and said "Yeah, I used what I could to be as good as I could and there wasn't really any proper guidelines or rules about it when I did, or else I wouldn't have." They would get more positive attention.
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Post by thomasj13 on Jul 3, 2018 15:07:16 GMT -6
Correction: ...No, but he is a drunk. I like me some Bags |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Jul 3, 2018 15:08:35 GMT -6
Drunks of a feather drink together.
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Post by thomasj13 on Jul 3, 2018 15:11:43 GMT -6
Drunks of a feather drink together. If I was sober, I wouldn't like you that much. |
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marshall
Veteran
21st Century Luddite
Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood...
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Post by marshall on Jul 3, 2018 15:31:19 GMT -6
Yes, the media keeps telling us that Trout is the best.....still waiting for him to win a batting title or to see the greatest player in the game lead his team to the playoffs. How many times has this great player led he league in number of hits or in batting average? He's good but, to be the "best", he needs something other than the media's praise to prove it. I am on record as criticizing Altuve for mental lapses which are there for all to see. I have also seen Trout make many of the same mistakes, but, I have yet to see Trout win a batting title or lead his team to a championship. In spite of Altuve's mental mistakes, he is much more valuable to the Astros than Trout is to the Angels, in my opinion. Altuve has a WS title........Trout has the praise of the media.......I'll take the championship, and, I WOULD NOT TRADE Altuve for Mike Trout. To those who will call me a hypocrite for saying Altuve is dumb and then praising him........I have known lots of good players who lack intelligence, but, I have never known a great player who was not also a pretty good leader, either by being vocal or by actions. Altuve is the best hitter in the game today and has led his team to a WS title which trumps any mental errors he makes. Trout is a good hitter, also makes mental errors, but has NO titles to his credit. One man on a 25-man team can't win it all. That's ridiculous. And leading in Hits and/or AVG is great, but it hardly determines ultimate success. He has, however, led in: Runs: 4 times RBI: 1 time Walks: 3 times SBs: 1 time OBP: 3 times SLG: 2 times OPS: 2 times OPS+: 4 times WAR: 6 times! Top-5 MVP finishes every year he has played a full season including 2 MVPs and 3 2nd-place finishes which he arguably should have been 1st also. I have no idea what the media says about him because I don't listen to west coast sports. The guy is a beast and anybody should be able to see that regardless of media attention. The guy has a career OPS of .985, and we haven't talked about his defense. He's a top 1 or 2 offensive player every year while playing one of the toughest defensive positions. Altuve is great and is the most important player on our team... Trout is still the better all-around player. He's more productive offensively, he runs better, and he's a better fielder. Altuve only won the MVP last year because Trout missed 40+ games. Now durability is certainly important too so Altuve deserved to win, but Trout is the best player in baseball right now. If you switched the two of them, we would be better and the Angels would be worse. That's just how it is. I take MVPs with a grain of salt. They tend to be awarded to those with the most favorable press so it's like a self-fulfilling prophesy. |
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marshall
Veteran
21st Century Luddite
Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood...
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Post by marshall on Jul 3, 2018 15:33:23 GMT -6
Yeah, but Bags was a doper. No, but he was a drunk. Never marry the pole dancer. |
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Post by thomasj13 on Jul 3, 2018 15:34:16 GMT -6
Never marry the pole dancer. Just get a prenup. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Jul 3, 2018 15:35:17 GMT -6
Drunks of a feather drink together. If I was sober, I wouldn't like you that much.  |
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marshall
Veteran
21st Century Luddite
Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood...
Posts: 4,358
Likes: 446
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Post by marshall on Jul 3, 2018 15:35:52 GMT -6
Huh...I thought it was pretty much accepted that he used PED. He's my favorite player, ever, and I dont care if he doped (they all did, mostly). I wish he'd stay out of the TV booth, though. He's not good at it. We all know he got in trouble for using a steroid precurser (Andro), not a steroid. But he got caught up in the witch hunt. |
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Post by Saint on Jul 3, 2018 15:36:47 GMT -6
One man on a 25-man team can't win it all. That's ridiculous. And leading in Hits and/or AVG is great, but it hardly determines ultimate success. He has, however, led in: Runs: 4 times RBI: 1 time Walks: 3 times SBs: 1 time OBP: 3 times SLG: 2 times OPS: 2 times OPS+: 4 times WAR: 6 times! Top-5 MVP finishes every year he has played a full season including 2 MVPs and 3 2nd-place finishes which he arguably should have been 1st also. I have no idea what the media says about him because I don't listen to west coast sports. The guy is a beast and anybody should be able to see that regardless of media attention. The guy has a career OPS of .985, and we haven't talked about his defense. He's a top 1 or 2 offensive player every year while playing one of the toughest defensive positions. Altuve is great and is the most important player on our team... Trout is still the better all-around player. He's more productive offensively, he runs better, and he's a better fielder. Altuve only won the MVP last year because Trout missed 40+ games. Now durability is certainly important too so Altuve deserved to win, but Trout is the best player in baseball right now. If you switched the two of them, we would be better and the Angels would be worse. That's just how it is. I take MVPs with a grain of salt. They tend to be awarded to those with the most favorable press so it's like a self-fulfilling prophesy. Maybe back in the 50's, but they're normally pretty reasonable now (but I still include top finishes even if not MVP). I'm not saying they get it exactly right, but generally the top-3 players are in the top-3 for MVP voting now. Out of Trout, Jose Ramirez, and Mookie Betts, Trout is the best but I wouldn't be upset if one of those other two won. Now if Ohtani won because of media attention, I might agree with you. |
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Post by thomasj13 on Jul 3, 2018 15:42:15 GMT -6
If I was sober, I wouldn't like you that much. Whatever Murse. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Jul 3, 2018 16:39:03 GMT -6
Drunks of a feather drink together. They got nothing on ‘Ol Dierk. |
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