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Post by blcoach8 on Jul 16, 2018 7:59:01 GMT -6
My guess is that the great White hope was sent back to Fresno partly because he is useless,but,the main reason is to activate Correa. I won't be surprised if any of these guys are traded before the deadline: White, Kemp, Reed, Martes, and, if we make a strong run at Realmuto that would probably include Stubbs.
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marshall
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Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood...
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Post by marshall on Jul 16, 2018 8:06:42 GMT -6
There are many reasons to send him down and there are as many good ones about him staying as there are about him leaving as part of a package. But if he's part of an unannounced package, I wouldn't expect him to play at AAA. Playing indicates he's still a part of the Astros future.
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marshall
Veteran
21st Century Luddite
Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood...
Posts: 4,358
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Post by marshall on Jul 16, 2018 8:12:44 GMT -6
My guess is that the great White hope was sent back to Fresno partly because he is useless,but,the main reason is to activate Correa. I won't be surprised if any of these guys are traded before the deadline: White, Kemp, Reed, Martes, and, if we make a strong run at Realmuto that would probably include Stubbs. Why the racially charged label? And why is it racially charged? The great Black hope would be celebrated, even though it's just as racist. White Entertainment Television would be lampooned as it should be, but Black Entertainment TV, just as Racist, is acceptable?
I hate double standards. Particularly when one side is blind to it's own hypocrisy.
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Post by olpapa on Jul 16, 2018 8:59:28 GMT -6
My guess is that the great White hope was sent back to Fresno partly because he is useless,but,the main reason is to activate Correa. I won't be surprised if any of these guys are traded before the deadline: White, Kemp, Reed, Martes, and, if we make a strong run at Realmuto that would probably include Stubbs. Why the racially charged label? And why is it racially charged? The great Black hope would be celebrated, even though it's just as racist. White Entertainment Television would be lampooned as it should be, but Black Entertainment TV, just as Racist, is acceptable?
I hate double standards. Particularly when one side is blind to it's own hypocrisy.
RACIST!! Haven’t you heard? Only whites can be racist. Non-whites doesn’t has the power. You gots to have the power to be a racist. If you doesn’t have the power, it is ok to hate. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Jul 16, 2018 9:00:14 GMT -6
I would love to see what the fall lineup has in store for White Entertainment Television.
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Post by bearbryant on Jul 16, 2018 9:06:43 GMT -6
I would love to see what the fall lineup has in store for White Entertainment Television. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Jul 16, 2018 9:12:54 GMT -6
I would love to see what the fall lineup has in store for White Entertainment Television. The Essence Awards coming to you from Fargo, ND. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Jul 16, 2018 9:44:03 GMT -6
I would love to see what the fall lineup has in store for White Entertainment Television. I wish they would also start a network for all the gays, lesbians, transgenders, and other freaks so they would stop adding "characters" that are one of these types of perverts to network programs. It has gotten to where you never know when one of the repulsive freaks will turn up. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2018 9:47:46 GMT -6
I would love to see what the fall lineup has in store for White Entertainment Television. Probably Frasier reruns.  |
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Post by Saint on Jul 16, 2018 10:11:08 GMT -6
My guess is that the great White hope was sent back to Fresno partly because he is useless,but,the main reason is to activate Correa. I won't be surprised if any of these guys are traded before the deadline: White, Kemp, Reed, Martes, and, if we make a strong run at Realmuto that would probably include Stubbs. You certainly don't have to like the guy, but an .813 OPS (130 OPS+) and a HR every 20 plate appearances would be awesome to have. He has certainly not been useless. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Jul 16, 2018 11:10:11 GMT -6
My guess is that the great White hope was sent back to Fresno partly because he is useless,but,the main reason is to activate Correa. I won't be surprised if any of these guys are traded before the deadline: White, Kemp, Reed, Martes, and, if we make a strong run at Realmuto that would probably include Stubbs. You certainly don't have to like the guy, but an .813 OPS (130 OPS+) and a HR every 20 plate appearances would be awesome to have. He has certainly not been useless. He has provided basically nothing in his time here.......He has driven in THREE runs with two home runs. He is more valuable as a trade piece to bring in another player. |
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marshall
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21st Century Luddite
Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood...
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Post by marshall on Jul 16, 2018 11:43:45 GMT -6
Ah yes. I do not speak doublespeak. That is my problem.
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Post by Saint on Jul 16, 2018 11:47:32 GMT -6
You certainly don't have to like the guy, but an .813 OPS (130 OPS+) and a HR every 20 plate appearances would be awesome to have. He has certainly not been useless. He has provided basically nothing in his time here.......He has driven in THREE runs with two home runs. He is more valuable as a trade piece to bring in another player. So you base total value on RBI count when he is hitting towards the bottom of the order? He's had 13 ABs with runners on base, and he has the following slash rates in those situations: .308/.357/.615
If you gave him the same total plate appearances as Altuve averages (680) he would have the following numbers for a full season: 34 HR 51 RBI 119 Hits 136 Walks with the aforementioned .813 OPS while hitting in the bottom 3rd of the order. What more do you want? |
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Post by unionstation82 on Jul 16, 2018 12:02:04 GMT -6
He has provided basically nothing in his time here.......He has driven in THREE runs with two home runs. He is more valuable as a trade piece to bring in another player. So you base total value on RBI count when he is hitting towards the bottom of the order? He's had 13 ABs with runners on base, and he has the following slash rates in those situations: .308/.357/.615
If you gave him the same total plate appearances as Altuve averages (680) he would have the following numbers for a full season: 34 HR 51 RBI 119 Hits 136 Walks with the aforementioned .813 OPS while hitting in the bottom 3rd of the order. What more do you want? I halfway agree with him in that if he’s a valuable trade asset, then so be it. Of course...this all depends on the severity of Correa’s injury. In that case, we need all the infield help we can get. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Jul 16, 2018 12:04:26 GMT -6
Guys, bear and I were discussing this earlier. If Correa does in fact have a serious injury, should the Astros be in on Machado?
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Post by olpapa on Jul 16, 2018 12:14:23 GMT -6
Guys, bear and I were discussing this earlier. If Correa does in fact have a serious injury, should the Astros be in on Machado? No. I’m afraid he is going to bring back to the Orioles way more than any rental is worth. If we are going to give up the kind of haul he will require, I would rather see Luhnow trade for a player who fills a need for the team beyond this season and who has at least a couple more years of control left. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Jul 16, 2018 12:20:47 GMT -6
Wave at us from the stands, Corch! With a sign that says send White to Fresno. We'll know who you are then. While I was there, I had no idea that White had been shipped to Fresno. If I had known, I would have made that sign and waved it. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Jul 16, 2018 12:25:50 GMT -6
He has provided basically nothing in his time here.......He has driven in THREE runs with two home runs. He is more valuable as a trade piece to bring in another player. So you base total value on RBI count when he is hitting towards the bottom of the order? He's had 13 ABs with runners on base, and he has the following slash rates in those situations: .308/.357/.615
If you gave him the same total plate appearances as Altuve averages (680) he would have the following numbers for a full season: 34 HR 51 RBI 119 Hits 136 Walks with the aforementioned .813 OPS while hitting in the bottom 3rd of the order. What more do you want? I see you like to think like a robot in this case......Take 13 at bats and project what White would do if he had Altuve's plate appearances......You are kidding, right? There is no way you can make that projection and expect it to be legitimate. If that were the case, you could take what Gattis did in June and predict him to win the Triple Crown and the MVP award. It is not realistic. You numbers are nice if you live in dream land.......In reality, White would produce nothing close to what you project. Send him to Fresno or trade him. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Jul 16, 2018 12:26:48 GMT -6
What have some of you figured out that makes you think Correa is out for the season?
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Post by Saint on Jul 16, 2018 12:51:00 GMT -6
So you base total value on RBI count when he is hitting towards the bottom of the order? He's had 13 ABs with runners on base, and he has the following slash rates in those situations: .308/.357/.615
If you gave him the same total plate appearances as Altuve averages (680) he would have the following numbers for a full season: 34 HR 51 RBI 119 Hits 136 Walks with the aforementioned .813 OPS while hitting in the bottom 3rd of the order. What more do you want? I see you like to think like a robot in this case......Take 13 at bats and project what White would do if he had Altuve's plate appearances......You are kidding, right? There is no way you can make that projection and expect it to be legitimate. If that were the case, you could take what Gattis did in June and predict him to win the Triple Crown and the MVP award. It is not realistic. You numbers are nice if you live in dream land.......In reality, White would produce nothing close to what you project. Send him to Fresno or trade him. Even if you don't like the projections, the actual numbers he has put out so far are very good. You're using a low RBI total in 40 plate appearances as the sole determining factor for his total value. If RBI counts were all that determined value, Altuve would have been a mediocre player last year instead of the best in the league. Sometimes I'm not sure if you just post things to get a reaction or if you truly believe them. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Jul 16, 2018 12:58:57 GMT -6
I see you like to think like a robot in this case......Take 13 at bats and project what White would do if he had Altuve's plate appearances......You are kidding, right? There is no way you can make that projection and expect it to be legitimate. If that were the case, you could take what Gattis did in June and predict him to win the Triple Crown and the MVP award. It is not realistic. You numbers are nice if you live in dream land.......In reality, White would produce nothing close to what you project. Send him to Fresno or trade him. Even if you don't like the projections, the actual numbers he has put out so far are very good. You're using a low RBI total in 40 plate appearances as the sole determining factor for his total value. If RBI counts were all that determined value, Altuve would have been a mediocre player last year instead of the best in the league. Sometimes I'm not sure if you just post things to get a reaction or if you truly believe them. i am not denying the numbers look good, but, the likelihood of expecting them is unrealistice to say the least. |
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Post by astrosdoug on Jul 16, 2018 12:59:40 GMT -6
Def Comedy Jam live from Martha's Vineyard The Essence Awards coming to you from Fargo, ND. Some pretty girls up in Fargo last time I was there. Then again, that was the early 90s, and I hadn't spent much time outside of Houston up to that point, so Houston was my point of reference. I had never seen so many blondes in my life as when I visited Fargo. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Jul 16, 2018 13:00:45 GMT -6
Guys, bear and I were discussing this earlier. If Correa does in fact have a serious injury, should the Astros be in on Machado? If we were to make a serious offer for Machado, we can say goodbye to Whitley and about 3 other top prospects. I hope the way they have been tight-lipped about Correa's injury doesn't mean this is a long-term problem. |
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Post by Saint on Jul 16, 2018 13:03:07 GMT -6
Even if you don't like the projections, the actual numbers he has put out so far are very good. You're using a low RBI total in 40 plate appearances as the sole determining factor for his total value. If RBI counts were all that determined value, Altuve would have been a mediocre player last year instead of the best in the league. Sometimes I'm not sure if you just post things to get a reaction or if you truly believe them. i am not denying the numbers look good, but, the likelihood of expecting them is unrealistice to say the least. Well that's different than saying he has been "useless". I'm not sure if he'll maintain those numbers either (although there are some metrics that say it's possible), but he has certainly been a solid overall offensive presence for us in limited playing time. That's not useless. |
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Post by bearbryant on Jul 16, 2018 13:13:41 GMT -6
Guys, bear and I were discussing this earlier. If Correa does in fact have a serious injury, should the Astros be in on Machado? No. I’m afraid he is going to bring back to the Orioles way more than any rental is worth. If we are going to give up the kind of haul he will require, I would rather see Luhnow trade for a player who fills a need for the team beyond this season and who has at least a couple more years of control left.
At the same time though, if they keep pushing back Correa's "game-readiness" I think we do need to be concerned going forward about our ability to replicate his production
in the 2nd half. Even though a trade for Merrifield is more feasible, I don't think it addresses this concern. Nor do I particularly agree Merrifield is a bat that would make an
impact down the stretch if we're looking to boost offense |
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Post by unionstation82 on Jul 16, 2018 13:19:04 GMT -6
No. I’m afraid he is going to bring back to the Orioles way more than any rental is worth. If we are going to give up the kind of haul he will require, I would rather see Luhnow trade for a player who fills a need for the team beyond this season and who has at least a couple more years of control left.
At the same time though, if they keep pushing back Correa's "game-readiness" I think we do need to be concerned going forward about our ability to replicate his production
in the 2nd half. Even though a trade for Merrifield is more feasible, I don't think it addresses this concern. Nor do I particularly agree Merrifield is a bat that would make an
impact down the stretch if we're looking to boost offenseMerrifield would be your leadoff or 9-hitter, and I agree that he wouldn’t replace Correa’s value, but then again that kind of replacement production hardly exists in the majors. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Jul 16, 2018 13:21:07 GMT -6
I didn’t foresee the LF production falling off a cliff here, but I was really sounding the horn about trading for Christian Yelich. Man, he would’ve been great here. Too bad Marwin pulled the wool over our collective eyes.
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Post by astrosdoug on Jul 16, 2018 13:24:19 GMT -6
I see you like to think like a robot in this case......Take 13 at bats and project what White would do if he had Altuve's plate appearances......You are kidding, right? There is no way you can make that projection and expect it to be legitimate. If that were the case, you could take what Gattis did in June and predict him to win the Triple Crown and the MVP award. It is not realistic. You numbers are nice if you live in dream land.......In reality, White would produce nothing close to what you project. Send him to Fresno or trade him. Even if you don't like the projections, the actual numbers he has put out so far are very good. You're using a low RBI total in 40 plate appearances as the sole determining factor for his total value. If RBI counts were all that determined value, Altuve would have been a mediocre player last year instead of the best in the league. Sometimes I'm not sure if you just post things to get a reaction or if you truly believe them. I get Coach's point regarding the importance of driving in runs. While I would add a few other things into the mix when evaluating a bench player, I think the stat called wRC (weighted Runs Created) is a better way to measure what Coach is getting at. The formula for calculating wRC is at *this link*. It adjusts for park factors so that hitters on the Rockies, for example, are evaluated on the same level as the Rays without the high altitude conditions inflating their score. Instead of just RBIs, wRC gives a player credit for sacrificing a runner into scoring position, stealing a base, and doing other things that can lead to a run but don't necessarily earn an RBI. Through 40 PAs, White earned 6 wRC. Over the past 30 days, Altuve had exactly 3 times White's number of PAs at 120, earning 21 wRC. We can extrapolate and say White would have gotten around 18 wRC if given the same number of opportunities as Altuve. That's pretty impressive for a bench player just called up from the minors. White's wRC over the past month has been far greater than that of Reddick, Gattis, and Springer. In fact, only three players (Altuve, Bregman, Gurriel) produced more weighted Runs Created per PA than White. In the offseason, I really thought White should be the primary DH instead of Gattis. In April and May, Gattis showed why that might be a good idea as White's OPS at Fresno was consistently in the .950 to 1.050 range at that time. Then of course Gattis caught fire and the idea of replacing him became irrelevant. But now Gattis is reverting to a below-average hitter while White puts up numbers that are among the Top 5 on the team. I think it makes sense to re-consider White as primary DH. He wouldn't cost a trade piece and he'd be cheap through 2022. White is known as a quiet, humble guy in the clubhouse. He doesn't shoot his mouth off on Twitter, cuss at managers, take PEDs, or beat his girlfriend. He's worked hard to improve over the past few years and, honestly, not all members of the Astros have worked as hard as they might have in that time. Through his roughly 100 major league PAs since 2017, White has put up an OPS of around .825, which is about where I'd expect it to stay for the next few years. That would put him in the top half of AL DHs. He may not be an All-Star, but he will consistently be among his team's better hitters. |
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Post by Saint on Jul 16, 2018 13:37:29 GMT -6
No. I’m afraid he is going to bring back to the Orioles way more than any rental is worth. If we are going to give up the kind of haul he will require, I would rather see Luhnow trade for a player who fills a need for the team beyond this season and who has at least a couple more years of control left.
At the same time though, if they keep pushing back Correa's "game-readiness" I think we do need to be concerned going forward about our ability to replicate his production
in the 2nd half. Even though a trade for Merrifield is more feasible, I don't think it addresses this concern. Nor do I particularly agree Merrifield is a bat that would make an
impact down the stretch if we're looking to boost offenseIt comes down to: Correa - Gurriel - Bregman (but deal with Marwin until Correa is back) or Gurriel - Bregman - Abreu/White/Merrifield (+maybe Correa and keep more prospects) or Machado - Gurriel - Bregman (+maybe Correa at some point and a lot less prospects) Option 2 looks the best to me, especially if we got Merrifield. We WILL get Correa back by the postseason, so investing in Machado seems too costly. Abreu is limited defensively now, but would have a spot as a DH next year. Merrifield can play 1B or LF right now, and be a utility player in the future to replace Marwin. He isn't the impact bat, but overall he has a lot of value with his versatility and cost. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Jul 16, 2018 13:40:23 GMT -6
To be an effective DH, first or third baseman, or pinch hitter, you need a guy with power who is going to drive in runs not just be good at drawing walks. His power numbers are practically non-existent. If we are going to keep him, insert him as a DH replacement for Gattis and see what happens. Gattis seems to have ended his hot streak which we had to know probably would not last. He has always been a streaky hitter and now he is in a cold streak.
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