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Post by blcoach8 on Aug 4, 2018 16:34:32 GMT -6
Maldonado is a solid (but overrated) defensive backup. He wasn't worth a prospect though unless Verlander didn't like Fed either. I don't have anything against Maldonado other than that. It was obvious Verlander was not getting along well with Stassi the way he was with McCann. The last player you deemed “overrated” was the 2017 MVP. It will be a relief to us all if he ever figures out that he over-rates the use of stats when deciding a player's worth to his team. |
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Post by m240 on Aug 4, 2018 16:42:07 GMT -6
I wonder if there is a way to sort Verlander's era with Stassi catching him and McCann catching him. A way of determining if Verlander did not like Stassi would be if Stassi seldom played while Verlander was pitching.
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Post by Saint on Aug 4, 2018 16:43:49 GMT -6
Maldonado is a solid (but overrated) defensive backup. He wasn't worth a prospect though unless Verlander didn't like Fed either. I don't have anything against Maldonado other than that. It was obvious Verlander was not getting along well with Stassi the way he was with McCann. Still waiting for you to let us know how you know Verlander didn't get along with Stassi......I know you didn't read that on one of your stat sheets. Because I watched the games where they showed Verlander visibly frustrated and now Maldonado is catching him. You figure it out. |
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Post by Saint on Aug 4, 2018 16:45:43 GMT -6
Maldonado is a solid (but overrated) defensive backup. He wasn't worth a prospect though unless Verlander didn't like Fed either. I don't have anything against Maldonado other than that. It was obvious Verlander was not getting along well with Stassi the way he was with McCann. The last player you deemed “overrated” was the 2017 MVP. Back in 2012, sure. And he was back then. I've said repeatedly that he has obviously proved to be the real deal since 2014. I don't know how many times I need to say that to you before you stop using it as some type of cutdown when I try to make a point. At no point back then did I say he shouldn't be playing for us. Overrated doesn't mean bad. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Aug 4, 2018 16:48:04 GMT -6
The problem is, you were the only person on the earth who thought he was overrated, yet you still cling to your belief that he was.
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Post by Saint on Aug 4, 2018 16:48:22 GMT -6
The last player you deemed “overrated” was the 2017 MVP. It will be a relief to us all if he ever figures out that he over-rates the use of stats when deciding a player's worth to his team. Coming from the guy who constantly uses one stat himself in any debate. Give me a list of which stats are allowable to use. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Aug 4, 2018 16:50:36 GMT -6
The problem is, you were the only person on the earth who thought he was overrated, yet you still cling to your belief that he was. His OPS and WAR probably were not impressive.  |
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Post by Saint on Aug 4, 2018 16:50:54 GMT -6
The problem is, you were the only person on the earth who thought he was overrated, yet you still cling to your belief that he was. Why would I change my opinion of him back then when his performance didn't change back then? He was a mediocre player his first 2.5 seasons. There's surely no arguing that. Since then he has been excellent. What is the disagreement here? Because I didn't say he was good when he wasn't yet? Tucker hasn't done anything yet either. Should I say he is good now so I don't have to hear about it five years from now if he becomes an all-star? |
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Post by Saint on Aug 4, 2018 16:57:51 GMT -6
Are these numbers great?
5 HR 34 RBI 57 Runs 25/34 SBs .285/.323.377 (92 OPS+)
Those are Altuve's average numbers his first 2.5 seasons. Compared to the league he was a below average hitter with some speed but not a great SB percentage.
They're fine solid numbers for a 2B...but they aren't MVP numbers. Since then, MVP for sure. But let's be honest about what he was: a solid young player with potential that was very cost effective for a rebuilding team.
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Post by blcoach8 on Aug 4, 2018 16:58:13 GMT -6
It will be a relief to us all if he ever figures out that he over-rates the use of stats when deciding a player's worth to his team. Coming from the guy who constantly uses one stat himself in any debate. Give me a list of which stats are allowable to use. Learn to read..........I use several stats and even admitted that some of yours can be used,just not to the extent you rely on them. Batting average, SLG. hitting with RISP are very important.....more important than OBP Drawing a walk with two outs and runners on second and third DOES NOT PRODUCE A RUN. It helps his OBP, but, doesn't put runs on the board. Any of us......including you,....is free to use any stats they so choose. The rest of us are allowed to use those to an extent and to place more importance on other stats. You will never convince anyone who actually knows the game that stats are the sole indicator of a player's total worth. |
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Post by Saint on Aug 4, 2018 17:01:06 GMT -6
Coming from the guy who constantly uses one stat himself in any debate. Give me a list of which stats are allowable to use. Learn to read..........I use several stats and even admitted that some of yours can be used,just not to the extent you rely on them. Batting average, SLG. hitting with RISP are very important.....more important than OBP Drawing a walk with two outs and runners on second and third DOES NOT PRODUCE A RUN. It helps his OBP, but, doesn't put runs on the board. Any of us......including you,....is free to use any stats they so choose. The rest of us are allowed to use those to an extent and to place more importance on other stats. You will never convince anyone who actually knows the game that stats are the sole indicator of a player's total worth. No no. For now on I'll use AVG, SLG and AVG with RISP as the only stats with value for you. Got it. OBP, defense, baserunning, sacrifice hits, have no place in determining player value. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Aug 4, 2018 17:14:49 GMT -6
Learn to read..........I use several stats and even admitted that some of yours can be used,just not to the extent you rely on them. Batting average, SLG. hitting with RISP are very important.....more important than OBP Drawing a walk with two outs and runners on second and third DOES NOT PRODUCE A RUN. It helps his OBP, but, doesn't put runs on the board. Any of us......including you,....is free to use any stats they so choose. The rest of us are allowed to use those to an extent and to place more importance on other stats. You will never convince anyone who actually knows the game that stats are the sole indicator of a player's total worth. No no. For now on I'll use AVG, SLG and AVG with RISP as the only stats with value for you. Got it. OBP, defense, baserunning, sacrifice hits, have no place in determining player value. Sorry, I failed to take the time to list every individual stat that is available. I figured since you keep your head buried in a stat sheet that you already knew about them. My bad. |
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Post by Saint on Aug 4, 2018 17:22:45 GMT -6
No no. For now on I'll use AVG, SLG and AVG with RISP as the only stats with value for you. Got it. OBP, defense, baserunning, sacrifice hits, have no place in determining player value. Sorry, I failed to take the time to list every individual stat that is available. I figured since you keep your head buried in a stat sheet that you already knew about them. My bad. But when I use other stats with you that you don’t like I get called a nerd and that I “know nothing about baseball but numbers” and “have my head buried in a stat sheet”. So I’m just wanting to know which ones are okay with you that don’t make me all those things you claim me to be. Lets make sure we’re consistent, big guy! |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2018 17:34:01 GMT -6
Still waiting for you to let us know how you know Verlander didn't get along with Stassi......I know you didn't read that on one of your stat sheets. Because I watched the games where they showed Verlander visibly frustrated and now Maldonado is catching him. You figure it out. I think Verlander is great, and obviously a future HOF'er. OTOH showing visible frustration on the mound shows an arrogance and ostentation I really don't care for. |
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Post by Saint on Aug 4, 2018 17:34:59 GMT -6
Because I watched the games where they showed Verlander visibly frustrated and now Maldonado is catching him. You figure it out. I think Verlander is great, and obviously a future HOF'er. OTOH showing visible frustration on the mound shows an arrogance and ostentation I really don't care for. It was pretty blatant at the time. He seems to get along with everyone fine in the dugout though. |
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Post by olpapa on Aug 4, 2018 18:00:20 GMT -6
I wonder if there is a way to sort Verlander's era with Stassi catching him and McCann catching him. A way of determining if Verlander did not like Stassi would be if Stassi seldom played while Verlander was pitching. Here you go 240. From Baseball Reference. Verlander’s splits “by catcher” for 2018. For what it’s worth his ERA is a little over a run higher when Stassi is his catcher than it is when McCann is his catcher. Opponents batting average, home run totals, OPS all a good bit higher too. How much of that is attributable to the catcher and how much to the quality of the opponent is anybody’s guess, I suppose: www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.fcgi?id=verlaju01&t=p&year=2018(Scrool down the page about 3/4 of the way to “by catcher.” |
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Post by Saint on Aug 4, 2018 18:02:27 GMT -6
I wonder if there is a way to sort Verlander's era with Stassi catching him and McCann catching him. A way of determining if Verlander did not like Stassi would be if Stassi seldom played while Verlander was pitching. Here you go 240. From Baseball Reference. Verlander’s splits “by catcher” for 2018. For what it’s worth his ERA is a little over a run higher when Stassi is his catcher than it is when McCann is his catcher. Opponents batting average a good bit higher too. How much of that is attributable to the catcher and how much to the quality of the opponent is anybody’s guess, I suppose: www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.fcgi?id=verlaju01&t=p&year=2018Combination of both I would assume. Certainly a pretty substantial difference though. |
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Post by m240 on Aug 4, 2018 18:23:15 GMT -6
I wonder if there is a way to sort Verlander's era with Stassi catching him and McCann catching him. A way of determining if Verlander did not like Stassi would be if Stassi seldom played while Verlander was pitching. Here you go 240. From Baseball Reference. Verlander’s splits “by catcher” for 2018. For what it’s worth his ERA is a little over a run higher when Stassi is his catcher than it is when McCann is his catcher. Opponents batting average, home run totals, OPS all a good bit higher too. How much of that is attributable to the catcher and how much to the quality of the opponent is anybody’s guess, I suppose: www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.fcgi?id=verlaju01&t=p&year=2018(Scrool down the page about 3/4 of the way to “by catcher.” Every stat with Stassi is higher for Verlander. I noticed and commented last night on Verlander staying away from the batter's hot zone. This is the area where the batter has his best results. Last night it seemed that Verlander was hitting his spots and his spots were very frequently not in the hot zones. My guess on this and I will stress it is only a guess but my guess is that Stassi being a rookie does not have as many zones built into memory and as a result he calls his placements wrong for the hitter. Verlander has a very high (for him) slugging % surrendered with Stassi catching. This goes back also to my comment a few days ago that if McCann comes back I thought that Stassi would be the odd man out in the playoffs. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Aug 4, 2018 18:52:48 GMT -6
Because I watched the games where they showed Verlander visibly frustrated and now Maldonado is catching him. You figure it out. I think Verlander is great, and obviously a future HOF'er. OTOH showing visible frustration on the mound shows an arrogance and ostentation I really don't care for. That probably comes form being such a perfectionist and competitor. There are times when Verlander and his catcher are obviously not on the same page and need to talk, but, that is part of the game. I don't think it means they don't get along. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2018 19:02:45 GMT -6
I think Verlander is great, and obviously a future HOF'er. OTOH showing visible frustration on the mound shows an arrogance and ostentation I really don't care for. That probably comes form being such a perfectionist and competitor. There are times when Verlander and his catcher are obviously not on the same page and need to talk, but, that is part of the game. I don't think it means they don't get along. In my life I have seen others pitch in that "perfectionist and competitive" mode too like Ryan, Carlton, and Maddux. They had the ability not to brow beat their catcher in difficulty. Just sayin' |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Aug 4, 2018 19:05:49 GMT -6
I think the reality is that when you're basically a rookie catcher, you don't try to impose your will on the future HOF ace. I think that's what led to Verlander very adamantly shaking his head "NO" to Stassi the other day.
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Post by Saint on Aug 4, 2018 19:49:50 GMT -6
I think the reality is that when you're basically a rookie catcher, you don't try to impose your will on the future HOF ace. I think that's what led to Verlander very adamantly shaking his head "NO" to Stassi the other day. I think so as well. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2018 20:00:18 GMT -6
I think the reality is that when you're basically a rookie catcher, you don't try to impose your will on the future HOF ace. I think that's what led to Verlander very adamantly shaking his head "NO" to Stassi the other day. Do we have evidence that Stassi was imposing his will? If he was being belligerent in that manner, I'd buy off on the explanation..... OTOH..... I'd seriously doubt he have the balls to do it. Verlander has a prima donna streak that probably aligned to a HOF bound guy who just happens to be procreating with Maxim No.1 Yeah, I might have an attitude too. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Aug 4, 2018 20:59:23 GMT -6
When you see the ace pitcher vehemently shake his head multiple times, and then have him say NO!!!!! i think you've got evidence of a rookie catcher trying to impose his will.
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