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Post by astrosdoug on Sept 24, 2018 21:01:49 GMT -6
The W puts Keuchel's record at 12-11 for the season. I really don't see a need for him to start any of the remaining six games, so his record may just stand there. As far as "Framber vs. Keuchel" goes, it's interesting that Framber has an incredible 73% groundball rate this year (Keuchel's old claim to fame) whereas for Keuchel it's only 53%. I don't see a need for him to take up a playoff roster spot........he can't relieve and he is too inconsistent to start important games. I'd take Valdez over Keuchel in a heartbeat Yeah... if Keuchel can't pitch to a postseason caliber and Correa's back won't let him contribute at a league-average level, the smart thing to do would be to leave both off the postseason roster. I suppose Marwin would be the starting SS in that case and the extra roster spot could be used to add a dedicated pinch runner like Straw or Fisher. However Hinch and the front office would be hard pressed to bench two fan favorites, one of whom was a Cy Young winner and one of whom is, apparently, a future MVP. |
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Post by astrosdoug on Sept 24, 2018 21:03:24 GMT -6
it's crazy but people will actually point to things like Keuchel looking masterful against Tanaka in the 2015 wildcard game to justify trotting him out there for game 2 or 3 of the ALDS.
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Post by astrosdoug on Sept 24, 2018 21:16:15 GMT -6
checking up a little more, it turns out the 1998 Astros also had a starting staff all finishing with winning seasons  I don't think there's any need to nitpick over John Halama finishing the season 1-1 in his six starts. I can't even remember him, to be honest. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Sept 24, 2018 21:33:36 GMT -6
I don't see a need for him to take up a playoff roster spot........he can't relieve and he is too inconsistent to start important games. I'd take Valdez over Keuchel in a heartbeat Yeah... if Keuchel can't pitch to a postseason caliber and Correa's back won't let him contribute at a league-average level, the smart thing to do would be to leave both off the postseason roster. I suppose Marwin would be the starting SS in that case and the extra roster spot could be used to add a dedicated pinch runner like Straw or Fisher. However Hinch and the front office would be hard pressed to bench two fan favorites, one of whom was a Cy Young winner and one of whom is, apparently, a future MVP. We don't have to use the same roster for the ALCS that we use in the ALDS. Lots of teams make changes at this time. Maybe I am not giving Keuchel enough credit, but, the tendency he has to give up multiple runs in the first inning is a formula for disaster in a playoff game. I doubt if Correa or Keuchel are left off, but, at this point, I can't see either contributing very much |
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Post by blcoach8 on Sept 24, 2018 21:36:19 GMT -6
it's crazy but people will actually point to things like Keuchel looking masterful against Tanaka in the 2015 wildcard game to justify trotting him out there for game 2 or 3 of the ALDS. I have never been able to understand why people who use what a guy did 3-4 years ago as a factor in determining what he can be expected to do now. Correa was a huge offensive contributor in last year's playoffs but, i don't expect it from him now.. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Sept 24, 2018 21:41:17 GMT -6
The Oakland Athletics are the first team on record (since 1988) to make the #postseason with the lowest #OpeningDay payroll ($66 million, per Baseball Prospectus).
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Post by fanastro on Sept 24, 2018 21:48:37 GMT -6
The Astros had the lowest opening day payroll in the American League in 2015 and made the playoffs. The Marlins in the NL were lower.
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Sept 24, 2018 21:51:30 GMT -6
That came directly from MLBs Facebook page.
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marshall
Veteran
21st Century Luddite
Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood...
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Post by marshall on Sept 25, 2018 4:27:14 GMT -6
This may be the only Astros season on record where ALL Astros starters finish the season with a winning record. Verlander 16-9 Keuchel 12-11 Cole 15-5 Morton 15-3 McCullers 10-6 Valdez 4-1 James 1-0 I couldn't say definitively that those 1980 and 1981 pitching staffs outshined this year's. I'm pretty sure Peacock had a start. |
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Post by Saint on Sept 25, 2018 8:19:15 GMT -6
I don't know about using one game in 2015 as a reason why Keuchel should start in the postseason, but he has overall had good success in the postseason for his career. (4-2 3.24 ERA 41 IP with 46 Ks)
And for as down on him as people seem to be, he's likely going to finish up 12-11 with 201 IP and a 3.75 ERA. Not sure I understand why people want to easily replace him with prospects for the postseason when Morton and McCullers are health risks already.
If we go into the postseason with Verlander-Cole-Keuchel-Morton/Framber as our rotation, we're in excellent shape.
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Post by blcoach8 on Sept 25, 2018 8:30:39 GMT -6
I don't know about using one game in 2015 as a reason why Keuchel should start in the postseason, but he has overall had good success in the postseason for his career. (4-2 3.24 ERA 41 IP with 46 Ks) And for as down on him as people seem to be, he's likely going to finish up 12-11 with 201 IP and a 3.75 ERA. Not sure I understand why people want to easily replace him with prospects for the postseason when Morton and McCullers are health risks already. If we go into the postseason with Verlander-Cole-Keuchel-Morton/Framber as our rotation, we're in excellent shape. We would not use a five man rotation in the post season. I am sure Keuchel will make the roster,but, thinking about him starting a game would have people expecting a disaster like his last start vs. the Mariners. Thinking about him starting against Boston at Fenway is a sickening thought. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Sept 25, 2018 12:50:28 GMT -6
I don't know about using one game in 2015 as a reason why Keuchel should start in the postseason, but he has overall had good success in the postseason for his career. (4-2 3.24 ERA 41 IP with 46 Ks) And for as down on him as people seem to be, he's likely going to finish up 12-11 with 201 IP and a 3.75 ERA. Not sure I understand why people want to easily replace him with prospects for the postseason when Morton and McCullers are health risks already. If we go into the postseason with Verlander-Cole-Keuchel-Morton/Framber as our rotation, we're in excellent shape. We keep hearing about “well, Keuchel is great for a fifth starter” and all that noise. The man was an ex-CYA winner and an ace of a pitching staff so whatever he’s done since then that isn’t a sub-3 ERA or a WHIP in the 1.1 area is falling short of the benchmark he created for himself. Also, if one would want to start Keuchel in a crucial postseason game, he or she is not being objective. |
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Post by Saint on Sept 25, 2018 13:00:11 GMT -6
I don't know about using one game in 2015 as a reason why Keuchel should start in the postseason, but he has overall had good success in the postseason for his career. (4-2 3.24 ERA 41 IP with 46 Ks) And for as down on him as people seem to be, he's likely going to finish up 12-11 with 201 IP and a 3.75 ERA. Not sure I understand why people want to easily replace him with prospects for the postseason when Morton and McCullers are health risks already. If we go into the postseason with Verlander-Cole-Keuchel-Morton/Framber as our rotation, we're in excellent shape. We keep hearing about “well, Keuchel is great for a fifth starter” and all that noise. The man was an ex-CYA winner and an ace of a pitching staff so whatever he’s done since then that isn’t a sub-3 ERA or a WHIP in the 1.1 area is falling short of the benchmark he created for himself. Also, if one would want to start Keuchel in a crucial postseason game, he or she is not being objective. So if a player achieves a high level award, anything below that in the future is considered unsuccessful? Nobody looked at Keuchel to be the ace of this rotation going into this year. Not with Verlander and Cole on the team, and McCullers having such a high ceiling. Keuchel was, at best, our #2 to start the year. And with as hot as Cole started, he quickly dropped to our #3 at best. His stats for the year are consistent with a very solid middle of the rotation pitcher. He still has games where he looks like an ace. Would I feel comfortable starting a Game 7 with him? Not completely. Could he start a game in the middle of the series? Absolutely. Especially since we'll be keeping a tighter leash on all of the pitchers in the postseason. I'm just not sure why people are so down on a guy that had a good year. Not a great year...but a good year. And a guy that has had a lot of success both in the regular season AND the postseason for us. It's still the Verlander and Cole show (which is why we traded so much to get them both), but Keuchel is a fine starting pitcher who can help us in the postseason. |
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Post by Saint on Sept 25, 2018 13:02:27 GMT -6
The only AL team that posts a better potential #3 pitcher than Keuchel is Cleveland.
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Sept 25, 2018 13:07:09 GMT -6
Charges dropped against Osuna.
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Post by bearbryant on Sept 25, 2018 13:16:09 GMT -6
The only AL team that posts a better potential #3 pitcher than Keuchel is Cleveland.
player in MLB who's done as well as Bregman this year is Lindor |
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Post by Saint on Sept 25, 2018 13:22:51 GMT -6
The only AL team that posts a better potential #3 pitcher than Keuchel is Cleveland.
player in MLB who's done as well as Bregman this year is LindorI agree. They're a damn good all-around team. I think our offense could be a little deeper if everybody performs to their capabilities, and our bullpen was certainly better during the year. However, their whole rotation is better than ours and their offensive stars are performing better than our offensive stars. |
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Post by bannedfan on Sept 25, 2018 13:27:54 GMT -6
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Post by unionstation82 on Sept 25, 2018 13:29:35 GMT -6
We keep hearing about “well, Keuchel is great for a fifth starter” and all that noise. The man was an ex-CYA winner and an ace of a pitching staff so whatever he’s done since then that isn’t a sub-3 ERA or a WHIP in the 1.1 area is falling short of the benchmark he created for himself. Also, if one would want to start Keuchel in a crucial postseason game, he or she is not being objective. So if a player achieves a high level award, anything below that in the future is considered unsuccessful? Nobody looked at Keuchel to be the ace of this rotation going into this year. Not with Verlander and Cole on the team, and McCullers having such a high ceiling. Keuchel was, at best, our #2 to start the year. And with as hot as Cole started, he quickly dropped to our #3 at best. His stats for the year are consistent with a very solid middle of the rotation pitcher. He still has games where he looks like an ace. Would I feel comfortable starting a Game 7 with him? Not completely. Could he start a game in the middle of the series? Absolutely. Especially since we'll be keeping a tighter leash on all of the pitchers in the postseason. I'm just not sure why people are so down on a guy that had a good year. Not a great year...but a good year. And a guy that has had a lot of success both in the regular season AND the postseason for us. It's still the Verlander and Cole show (which is why we traded so much to get them both), but Keuchel is a fine starting pitcher who can help us in the postseason. By Keuchel standards, the ERA is a bit underwhelming, the WHIP is bad, and he is the underdog in showdowns with good pitchers. I’m not saying that the others don’t have their shortcomings, but more excuses are made for Keuchel than the others. Good teams won’t fall for the junkballs he throws out of the zone, which puts him at the mercy of the umpire. |
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Post by bannedfan on Sept 25, 2018 13:33:22 GMT -6
Keuchel isn’t worth the money he is wanting. Plus the Astros have 2 pitchers coming in....Framber and James. With those 2, plus JV and Cole and Lance, there’s your starting 5 for 2019, without resigning Morton.
I do think the Astros might resign Morton and put Lance in the bullpen for 2019.
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Post by Saint on Sept 25, 2018 13:37:07 GMT -6
So if a player achieves a high level award, anything below that in the future is considered unsuccessful? Nobody looked at Keuchel to be the ace of this rotation going into this year. Not with Verlander and Cole on the team, and McCullers having such a high ceiling. Keuchel was, at best, our #2 to start the year. And with as hot as Cole started, he quickly dropped to our #3 at best. His stats for the year are consistent with a very solid middle of the rotation pitcher. He still has games where he looks like an ace. Would I feel comfortable starting a Game 7 with him? Not completely. Could he start a game in the middle of the series? Absolutely. Especially since we'll be keeping a tighter leash on all of the pitchers in the postseason. I'm just not sure why people are so down on a guy that had a good year. Not a great year...but a good year. And a guy that has had a lot of success both in the regular season AND the postseason for us. It's still the Verlander and Cole show (which is why we traded so much to get them both), but Keuchel is a fine starting pitcher who can help us in the postseason. By Keuchel standards, the ERA is a bit underwhelming, the WHIP is bad, and he is the underdog in showdowns with good pitchers. I’m not saying that the others don’t have their shortcomings, but more excuses are made for Keuchel than the others. Good teams won’t fall for the junkballs he throws out of the zone, which puts him at the mercy of the umpire. None of that changes the fact that he's a better option at #3 than any other AL team except CLE. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Sept 25, 2018 13:40:18 GMT -6
Keuchel isn’t worth the money he is wanting. Plus the Astros have 2 pitchers coming in....Framber and James. With those 2, plus JV and Cole and Lance, there’s your starting 5 for 2019, without resigning Morton. I do think the Astros might resign Morton and put Lance in the bullpen for 2019. Let Keuchel walk and focus on re-signing Morton. Valdez can easily take Keuchel's spot in the rotation, plus we have James and McCullers. Spend money that would be given Keuchel on trying to extend guys like Bregman and Springer. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Sept 25, 2018 13:45:47 GMT -6
By Keuchel standards, the ERA is a bit underwhelming, the WHIP is bad, and he is the underdog in showdowns with good pitchers. I’m not saying that the others don’t have their shortcomings, but more excuses are made for Keuchel than the others. Good teams won’t fall for the junkballs he throws out of the zone, which puts him at the mercy of the umpire. None of that changes the fact that he's a better option at #3 than any other AL team except CLE. I’m not saying Keuchel is a bad pitcher. I just think that he shouldn’t get a pass on what he should contribute just because the rotation is stacked. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Sept 25, 2018 13:51:59 GMT -6
None of that changes the fact that he's a better option at #3 than any other AL team except CLE. I’m not saying Keuchel is a bad pitcher. I just think that he shouldn’t get a pass on what he should contribute just because the rotation is stacked. I don't think what he did in 2015 or any other year should have an effect on the decision made about him now. When putting a playoff roster together, focus on who is being effective NOW not in the past. He probably would be as good or better than the #3 on other playoff teams, but, he is not even the best #3 choice on his own team. If healthy, Morton is a better #3 to put behind Verlander and Cole. |
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Post by bannedfan on Sept 25, 2018 13:52:41 GMT -6
Keuchel’s ERA+ in 2018 is 106/slightly above average. That’s about what he is.
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Post by blcoach8 on Sept 25, 2018 14:04:03 GMT -6
Keuchel’s ERA+ in 2018 is 106/slightly above average. That’s about what he is. Yes, that is about right. But, he isn't better or as good as Verlander, Cole, or Morton. |
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Post by Saint on Sept 25, 2018 14:05:27 GMT -6
None of that changes the fact that he's a better option at #3 than any other AL team except CLE. I’m not saying Keuchel is a bad pitcher. I just think that he shouldn’t get a pass on what he should contribute just because the rotation is stacked. Who is giving him a pass for what? And what do you think a 30 year old with health issues the past two years should be contributing? |
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Post by Saint on Sept 25, 2018 14:10:12 GMT -6
There is no guarantee Morton will even be healthy, but I don't think you can go wrong with either choice. Morton had a better year, but Keuchel has has more success in the postseason. Both pitchers can be dominant when they're on and bad when they're not. Keuchel gets hit and Morton gets wild.
Keuchel 2017-2018: 26-16 3.39 ERA (118 ERA+) 347 IP
Morton 2017-2018: 29-10 3.39 ERA (118 ERA+) 310 IP
Everybody seems to love Morton but be tough on Keuchel when they've been virtually identical over the last two seasons, just with two different approaches.
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Sept 25, 2018 14:12:30 GMT -6
Yeah, but Morton doesn't have that DB sleeve tattoo.
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marshall
Veteran
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Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood...
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Post by marshall on Sept 25, 2018 15:06:22 GMT -6
Keuchel’s ERA+ in 2018 is 106/slightly above average. That’s about what he is. Yes, that is about right. But, he isn't better or as good as Verlander, Cole, or Morton. Not a healthy Morton, but an unhealthy one? I'm not so sure.
JV and Cole have separated themselves from the rest. McCullers and Morton are health risks, but can dominate on any particular day when they're on. Keuchel is healthy, if not as dominant as he can be against free swinging teams or umpires that give him the edges.
We have some young arms that look great in limited outings, but the playoffs are a whole new level. I'm just glad I'm not the one making the decision that is sure to be second guessed forever if they fail to win the World Series, no matter what he chooses.
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