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Post by bearbryant on Oct 9, 2018 9:00:34 GMT -6
2015 wants its box score back Having Harris pitch the 9th didn't remove the 2015 mystique of the Game 3 pitching order. I can't see any reason for the AStros to pick up Harris's option for the 2019 season, but I do have to salute his overall contribution to the team from 2015 till this season. 240+ innings over 4 seasons and an ERA of 2.58 represents a very solid day-in, day-out performance even though he tended to buckle under pressure. His main value was in helping the team win a bunch of weekday regular season games that are mostly forgotten now, except for the fact that those regular season records got the Astros to the playoffs in 3 of the 4 seasons Harris has been with the Astros. We were remarking on the old forum, during that long boring offseason, that the Astros really haven't had a middle reliever with those kinds of results for a four-year period since Larry Andersen. I well understand the reasons why Astros fans are eager to say adios to Harris, but with 2018 FIP under 2.50, there's no doubt some major league GM is going to employ him next year. I completely wouldn't be surprised if Harris is keeping that ERA around 2.50 next season and some fans start questioning the wisdom of not picking up that 2019 option. 
here, but it comes with the territory I guess |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2018 9:32:44 GMT -6
Having Harris pitch the 9th didn't remove the 2015 mystique of the Game 3 pitching order. I can't see any reason for the AStros to pick up Harris's option for the 2019 season, but I do have to salute his overall contribution to the team from 2015 till this season. 240+ innings over 4 seasons and an ERA of 2.58 represents a very solid day-in, day-out performance even though he tended to buckle under pressure. His main value was in helping the team win a bunch of weekday regular season games that are mostly forgotten now, except for the fact that those regular season records got the Astros to the playoffs in 3 of the 4 seasons Harris has been with the Astros. We were remarking on the old forum, during that long boring offseason, that the Astros really haven't had a middle reliever with those kinds of results for a four-year period since Larry Andersen. I well understand the reasons why Astros fans are eager to say adios to Harris, but with 2018 FIP under 2.50, there's no doubt some major league GM is going to employ him next year. I completely wouldn't be surprised if Harris is keeping that ERA around 2.50 next season and some fans start questioning the wisdom of not picking up that 2019 option.
here, but it comes with the territory I guessHadn't looked at his stats in so long, I'd forgotten how decent they are. Even with that he just seems like a mop up guy for us. Just shows how good our pen has become. |
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Post by Saint on Oct 9, 2018 9:43:04 GMT -6
Statistically, Harris is one of the best non-closer relievers we've ever had for more than a season. In fact, I'm hard-pressed to think of any better. 4 seasons: 14-12 2.54 ERA (154 ERA+) 1.000 WHIP while averaging 60 appearances per season with us. And even as a partial closer for us in 2016 he was 12/13 in Saves. He was an all-star one year and should have been twice. He also didn't given up a run in 3 WS appearances last year. In the last two seasons he has averaged over 10 K/9IP as well.
I wouldn't say he was anything amazing this year, but he was certainly above-average.
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Post by unionstation82 on Oct 9, 2018 9:48:03 GMT -6
You’ve got to put the numbers aside for Harris and ask yourself how comfortable you are with Harris in a game situation. Quite often this season, Hinch went with someone else. That says enough for me.
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Post by Saint on Oct 9, 2018 9:49:40 GMT -6
You’ve got to put the numbers aside for Harris and ask yourself how comfortable you are with Harris in a game situation. Quite often this season, Hinch went with someone else. That says enough for me. It depends on the situation. I'd put in Pressly or Osuna in the toughest situations, but I think Harris can be counted on in close games when necessary. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Oct 9, 2018 9:56:16 GMT -6
Having Harris pitch the 9th didn't remove the 2015 mystique of the Game 3 pitching order. I can't see any reason for the AStros to pick up Harris's option for the 2019 season, but I do have to salute his overall contribution to the team from 2015 till this season. 240+ innings over 4 seasons and an ERA of 2.58 represents a very solid day-in, day-out performance even though he tended to buckle under pressure. His main value was in helping the team win a bunch of weekday regular season games that are mostly forgotten now, except for the fact that those regular season records got the Astros to the playoffs in 3 of the 4 seasons Harris has been with the Astros. We were remarking on the old forum, during that long boring offseason, that the Astros really haven't had a middle reliever with those kinds of results for a four-year period since Larry Andersen. I well understand the reasons why Astros fans are eager to say adios to Harris, but with 2018 FIP under 2.50, there's no doubt some major league GM is going to employ him next year. I completely wouldn't be surprised if Harris is keeping that ERA around 2.50 next season and some fans start questioning the wisdom of not picking up that 2019 option.
here, but it comes with the territory I guessWhy do your posts have such odd breaks in the middle of your sentences? |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Oct 9, 2018 9:58:00 GMT -6
You’ve got to put the numbers aside for Harris and ask yourself how comfortable you are with Harris in a game situation. Quite often this season, Hinch went with someone else. That says enough for me. It depends on the situation. I'd put in Pressly or Osuna in the toughest situations, but I think Harris can be counted on in close games when necessary. Sherwin doesn't like Harris because he looks like George W. Bush. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Oct 9, 2018 9:58:00 GMT -6
You’ve got to put the numbers aside for Harris and ask yourself how comfortable you are with Harris in a game situation. Quite often this season, Hinch went with someone else. That says enough for me. It depends on the situation. I'd put in Pressly or Osuna in the toughest situations, but I think Harris can be counted on in close games when necessary. Eh. Yesterday, he was mediocre. In the 2015 postseason, he was horrible. He was hot and cold last postseason. He’s a decent reliever, but to me he’s unreliable when it’s a high pressure situation. I think we’re all forgetting how his numbers didn’t translate as a closer. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2018 10:01:35 GMT -6
And again, I will take my serving of crow, and admit when I was wrong.
I really really thought trading for Osuna was going to be a diaster, esp, in clubouse chenistry aspects.
I give up..... Luhnow's a baseball genius, and anyone second guessing him is doing it at their own peril.
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Post by bearbryant on Oct 9, 2018 10:22:06 GMT -6
Harris did a great job, but unfortunately it will be overshadowed by his screwups. It disappoints me that that's the way a lot of players are remembered during their stints
here, but it comes with the territory I guess Why do your posts have such odd breaks in the middle of your sentences? |
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Post by sempersmom on Oct 9, 2018 10:22:09 GMT -6
It depends on the situation. I'd put in Pressly or Osuna in the toughest situations, but I think Harris can be counted on in close games when necessary. Sherwin doesn't like Harris because he looks like George W. Bush. You always make me laugh. I didn't expect that. LOL |
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Post by m240 on Oct 9, 2018 10:24:31 GMT -6
The story I heard from someone with knowledge of the situation was that Osuna came back from a road trip and some of his stuff was missing. The girlfriend had a key and had taken it while he was gone. She was there one day when he came home and started talking about how he owed her. She had apparently found out that he thought that their relationship was not exclusive. So she slapped him a couple of times and he pushed her down and started yelling at her. She got up and called the cops. She said he did more than push her but she had no marks on her. He admitted to pushing her and that is what got him suspended. As part of the agreement she can keep the stuff and never contact him again. He now has a peace bond where he has agreed to not contact her for a period of 12 months.
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Post by sempersmom on Oct 9, 2018 10:32:28 GMT -6
The story I heard from someone with knowledge of the situation was that Osuna came back from a road trip and some of his stuff was missing. The girlfriend had a key and had taken it while he was gone. She was there one day when he came home and started talking about how he owed her. She had apparently found out that he thought that their relationship was not exclusive. So she slapped him a couple of times and he pushed her down and started yelling at her. She got up and called the cops. She said he did more than push her but she had no marks on her. He admitted to pushing her and that is what got him suspended. As part of the agreement she can keep the stuff and never contact him again. He now has a peace bond where he has agreed to not contact her for a period of 12 months. I thought women never lied? |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Oct 9, 2018 10:37:07 GMT -6
Why do your posts have such odd breaks in the middle of your sentences? We all know that you're odd, but that doesn't explain why you add those linebreaks in your posts. This isn't Myspace. Exp lain. |
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Post by m240 on Oct 9, 2018 10:41:49 GMT -6
Women are people and people lie. Just about all people do at some point and women are people. Some are better at it than others.
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Post by blcoach8 on Oct 9, 2018 11:19:48 GMT -6
The story I heard from someone with knowledge of the situation was that Osuna came back from a road trip and some of his stuff was missing. The girlfriend had a key and had taken it while he was gone. She was there one day when he came home and started talking about how he owed her. She had apparently found out that he thought that their relationship was not exclusive. So she slapped him a couple of times and he pushed her down and started yelling at her. She got up and called the cops. She said he did more than push her but she had no marks on her. He admitted to pushing her and that is what got him suspended. As part of the agreement she can keep the stuff and never contact him again. He now has a peace bond where he has agreed to not contact her for a period of 12 months. Is the girlfriend related to Christine Blasey Ford?? |
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Post by marshall on Oct 9, 2018 11:58:21 GMT -6
Statistically, Harris is one of the best non-closer relievers we've ever had for more than a season. In fact, I'm hard-pressed to think of any better. 4 seasons: 14-12 2.54 ERA (154 ERA+) 1.000 WHIP while averaging 60 appearances per season with us. And even as a partial closer for us in 2016 he was 12/13 in Saves. He was an all-star one year and should have been twice. He also didn't given up a run in 3 WS appearances last year. In the last two seasons he has averaged over 10 K/9IP as well. I wouldn't say he was anything amazing this year, but he was certainly above-average. As someone who recognizes trends, I'd say there is a solid trend from very good to mediocre during the 4 years stint which correlates closely with TYPICAL pitching decline for pitchers over 30. Verlander, of course, is bucking that trend, but Harris is not. If he were coming up on his age 31 season, by all means exercise his option. But I think the money can be put to better use with younger players who are still trending up. |
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Post by Saint on Oct 9, 2018 12:00:26 GMT -6
Statistically, Harris is one of the best non-closer relievers we've ever had for more than a season. In fact, I'm hard-pressed to think of any better. 4 seasons: 14-12 2.54 ERA (154 ERA+) 1.000 WHIP while averaging 60 appearances per season with us. And even as a partial closer for us in 2016 he was 12/13 in Saves. He was an all-star one year and should have been twice. He also didn't given up a run in 3 WS appearances last year. In the last two seasons he has averaged over 10 K/9IP as well. I wouldn't say he was anything amazing this year, but he was certainly above-average. As someone who recognizes trends, I'd say there is a solid trend from very good to mediocre during the 4 years stint which correlates closely with TYPICAL pitching decline for pitchers over 30. Verlander, of course, is bucking that trend, but Harris is not. If he were coming up on his age 31 season, by all means exercise his option. But I think the money can be put to better use with younger players who are still trending up. Yes, I wouldn't pick up his option. We have almost too many relievers already. But he was still an excellent pitcher for us. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2018 12:04:53 GMT -6
As someone who recognizes trends, I'd say there is a solid trend from very good to mediocre during the 4 years stint which correlates closely with TYPICAL pitching decline for pitchers over 30. I hope you didn't have any input back in '88 when we didn't re-sign Ryan. Age is just a number. I think players have to be looked at case by case. |
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Post by marshall on Oct 9, 2018 12:19:38 GMT -6
As someone who recognizes trends, I'd say there is a solid trend from very good to mediocre during the 4 years stint which correlates closely with TYPICAL pitching decline for pitchers over 30. I hope you didn't have any input back in '88 when we didn't re-sign Ryan. Age is just a number. I think players have to be looked at case by case. Ryan, like Satchel Page, is a statistical aberration as well as a biological one. Age is not just a number, but there are are situations where players fall outside of the standard deviations.
While I disagreed with letting Ryan go back then, it was for purely business reasons. I fully understood the probability was against him having the years he had, so I understood the club's reasoning from a personnel view. But he meant way more to this organization than his success on the field.
But I also remember his contempt for pitch counts as the Astros tried to extend his pitching life. That was probably a big reason he left for FA as well as the money.
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Post by unionstation82 on Oct 9, 2018 12:24:31 GMT -6
The story I heard from someone with knowledge of the situation was that Osuna came back from a road trip and some of his stuff was missing. The girlfriend had a key and had taken it while he was gone. She was there one day when he came home and started talking about how he owed her. She had apparently found out that he thought that their relationship was not exclusive. So she slapped him a couple of times and he pushed her down and started yelling at her. She got up and called the cops. She said he did more than push her but she had no marks on her. He admitted to pushing her and that is what got him suspended. As part of the agreement she can keep the stuff and never contact him again. He now has a peace bond where he has agreed to not contact her for a period of 12 months. I thought women never lied? I believe the women. #allmenarescum #thereisonlyonesidetothestory |
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Post by bearbryant on Oct 9, 2018 16:11:14 GMT -6
I also remember his contempt for pitch counts as the Astros tried to extend his pitching life. That was probably a big reason he left for FA as well as the money.
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Post by abregmanfan on Oct 9, 2018 16:29:36 GMT -6
I might check into Realmuto's availability. No. We have Vodoo for that. |
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Post by marshall on Oct 9, 2018 16:42:27 GMT -6
I agree,but, I hate to think what we would have to give up to get him. I would hope the conversation would start at Harris and end at Gattis With three years of arbitration and control, he would be worth a hefty price, but not a TROUT price. |
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Post by astrosdoug on Oct 9, 2018 17:21:05 GMT -6
I think the question came up last year of how many Astros non-closer relievers have managed to pitch well for four consecutive years or more. Larry Andersen from 1986-90 stuck out as among the best. He threw just over 400 innings spanning 5 seasons with the Astros (significantly higher workload than Harris's) and his 2.57 ERA was just about the same as Harris's 2.58 with the Astros. I'm not sure, but I think Hinch's tenure in Arizona might have overlapped with Harris's time as a Diamondback. It might be one reason Hinch is reluctant to part with Harris. Those guys could go 'way back', relatively speaking.  |
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Post by marshall on Oct 9, 2018 17:40:05 GMT -6
Women are people and people lie. Just about all people do at some point and women are people. Some are better at it than others. The alphabet agenda folks are going to take you to task just mentioning men and women. They can't see what's right in front of their faces... well maybe a little lower... |
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Post by bannedfan on Oct 9, 2018 17:40:46 GMT -6
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Post by blcoach8 on Oct 9, 2018 19:32:56 GMT -6
You’ve got to put the numbers aside for Harris and ask yourself how comfortable you are with Harris in a game situation. Quite often this season, Hinch went with someone else. That says enough for me. It depends on the situation. I'd put in Pressly or Osuna in the toughest situations, but I think Harris can be counted on in close games when necessary. How did I miss this? "Harris can be counted on in close games if necessary". HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I can't stop laughing. He is the LAST pitcher on the roster that I would trust in a close game. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Oct 9, 2018 19:52:33 GMT -6
It depends on the situation. I'd put in Pressly or Osuna in the toughest situations, but I think Harris can be counted on in close games when necessary. How did I miss this? "Harris can be counted on in close games if necessary". HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I can't stop laughing. He is the LAST pitcher on the roster that I would trust in a close game. That’s that optimism that doesn’t exist for Maldonado. |
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Post by bearbryant on Oct 9, 2018 19:52:37 GMT -6
I think the question came up last year of how many Astros non-closer relievers have managed to pitch well for four consecutive years or more. Larry Andersen from 1986-90 stuck out as among the best. He threw just over 400 innings spanning 5 seasons with the Astros (significantly higher workload than Harris's) and his 2.57 ERA was just about the same as Harris's 2.58 with the Astros. I'm not sure, but I think Hinch's tenure in Arizona might have overlapped with Harris's time as a Diamondback. It might be one reason Hinch is reluctant to part with Harris. Those guys could go 'way back', relatively speaking.
game-saving hold in the All-Star Game is going to have a long leash. It's the whole Springer batting first discussion
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