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Post by nathangarza29 on Feb 15, 2019 13:32:19 GMT -6
I think we will all be surprised on Harper.
It's basically Boras and agents like Boras ruining baseball.
I mean when it's all said and done Haroer will get a 5yr deal with opt outs. And itll be where he wants to go
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Post by bearbryant on Feb 15, 2019 14:16:07 GMT -6
With the growing changes with free agents I think we'll be seeing more and more of these types of deals (and extensions before contracts expire). I think players will be more scared to test the waters. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2019 14:24:15 GMT -6
It's basically Boras and agents like Boras ruining baseball. Voodoo..... Maybe the wisest post you have made here. Don't get me wrong, I have no love for the owners either. It is just sad that the cost and the greed of the owners and players has deprived a lot of poorer fans their chance to see a MLB game. I do understand economics and if you look at the CPI and the rate of the cost of attending the game, they are way out of line. At some point there will be a tipping point, and it won't be pretty for the ass holes in question. (players and owners) |
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Post by Saint on Feb 15, 2019 14:57:57 GMT -6
I think the compromise for players and owners would be to allow players to reach free agency a year or two quicker, and also install a minimum team payroll. Sure, the owners will balk at not having control of players quite as long, but it will balance out with paying the veteran free agents less. And the players get to push for longer more expensive contracts because they'll be younger and more worth the money due to better potential production.
I don't think anybody would be upset if 24-26 year olds got 4-8 year deals worth more money since that timeframe will actually be during their prime. The players will just have to understand that this will cause older veterans to probably not get as much in free agency unless they're proving they can stay healthy and productive (ex. Verlander).
And to keep owners from being too cheap and not putting competitive teams out there, I do feel there needs to be a minimum for team salary. If you can't afford to put at least a respectable product on the field, you shouldn't have bought the team. As for what that figure should be, I'll leave that up to financial gurus.
The underlying idea would be to fairly pay for production and to put more balanced productive teams out there.
In the past young players wouldn't make much until free agency but that was balanced out by the accomplished players getting big free agent contracts. Now we're not paying them much until free agency AND we're not giving them big contracts as free agents. It's great for ownership, but shitty for the players and the fans.... The fans get crappier teams to watch and no cheaper food/souvenirs at the ballparks to entice them to go.
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marshall
Veteran
21st Century Luddite
Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood...
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Post by marshall on Feb 15, 2019 15:02:08 GMT -6
It's basically Boras and agents like Boras ruining baseball. Voodoo..... Maybe the wisest post you have made here. Don't get me wrong, I have no love for the owners either. It is just sad that the cost and the greed of the owners and players has deprived a lot of poorer fans their chance to see a MLB game. I do understand economics and if you look at the CPI and the rate of the cost of attending the game, they are way out of line. At some point there will be a tipping point, and it won't be pretty for the ass holes in question. (players and owners) Not to mention the enrichment of all at the expense of taxpayers through subsidizing the stadiums and surrounding areas which require substantial additional city and county resources which could be used for basic infrastructure improvements elsewhere. But they HAVE to have their pro teams, so they pay the ransom/extortion. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Feb 15, 2019 15:09:57 GMT -6
I don’t mind Bauer’s thinking. I personally think players should be paid for games they suit up for, which keeps injury prone players from stealing money. Everyone should keep their benefits, though, whatever they may be.
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Post by nathangarza29 on Feb 15, 2019 18:59:09 GMT -6
It's basically Boras and agents like Boras ruining baseball. Voodoo..... Maybe the wisest post you have made here. Don't get me wrong, I have no love for the owners either. It is just sad that the cost and the greed of the owners and players has deprived a lot of poorer fans their chance to see a MLB game. I do understand economics and if you look at the CPI and the rate of the cost of attending the game, they are way out of line. At some point there will be a tipping point, and it won't be pretty for the ass holes in question. (players and owners) There should be a max contract like 30m is all you can make period nothing more. It's the max contract.and what would make it better is just a flat out cap. There would be no issues with who does what. If you go over the the cap. Your penalized half your overall team salary. OWNER... |
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Post by astrosdoug on Feb 15, 2019 19:34:16 GMT -6
At least there is some live baseball on today... Vanderbilt vs UVA (MLB Network)
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Post by astrosdoug on Feb 15, 2019 20:48:53 GMT -6
If Harper comes to the Astros, will he still compete against Bregman in the HR Derby?
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Post by abregmanfan on Feb 15, 2019 21:30:55 GMT -6
If Harper comes to the Astros, will he still compete against Bregman in the HR Derby? If Harper come to the Astros pigs will fly. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Feb 15, 2019 22:28:06 GMT -6
I sent Corch an email to his contact email he'd given me. Will let y'all know if he responds.
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Post by unionstation82 on Feb 16, 2019 5:37:18 GMT -6
If Harper comes to the Astros, will he still compete against Bregman in the HR Derby? He will compete for our hearts. |
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Post by thomasj13 on Feb 16, 2019 5:55:58 GMT -6
If Harper comes to the Astros, will he still compete against Bregman in the HR Derby? He will compete for our hearts. Sir Harper!, Dilly Dilly! BTW - Not going to happen |
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Post by unionstation82 on Feb 16, 2019 5:58:38 GMT -6
He will compete for our hearts. Sir Harper!, Dilly Dilly! BTW - Not going to happen I just don’t know where he’d play unless as a DH or 1B. He’d be a kickass LF. |
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Post by Hunter McCormick on Feb 16, 2019 8:35:30 GMT -6
It's basically Boras and agents like Boras ruining baseball. Voodoo..... Maybe the wisest post you have made here. Don't get me wrong, I have no love for the owners either. It is just sad that the cost and the greed of the owners and players has deprived a lot of poorer fans their chance to see a MLB game. I do understand economics and if you look at the CPI and the rate of the cost of attending the game, they are way out of line. At some point there will be a tipping point, and it won't be pretty for the ass holes in question. (players and owners) Catfish, at one time I had similar thoughts. I no longer think that way. MLB is a business ... always has been, always will be. The owners can and should price their product at the sweet spot, where the number of units sold times the price per unit is the highest. If every game is a sellout, the pricepoint is probably too low. I don't blame the owners for their pricing. It's simple straightforward business. Nor do I blame the players or the MLBPA. They have every right to maximize their income and benefits. Likewise I don't blame Boras and his ilk. It's fun to hate on them and I do along with the rest of the fans. But the reality is, they're doing exactly what they should be doing. Helping the players get the best contracts possible. If we want to point fingers at anyone for the prices, we need look no farther than ourselves. If we don't want to pay so much for a ticket, then we shouldn't. Stop going to the ballpark. The dynamics of this business is far different than a typical business, though. This is a product that isn't necessary for the basic quality of life. It's not water, food, shelter, clothing, power, communication, waste disposal or transportation. It's entertainment and there are a limited number of seats. It's a monopoly, but one our government allows to exist. |
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Post by m240 on Feb 16, 2019 8:37:04 GMT -6
Sir Harper!, Dilly Dilly! BTW - Not going to happen I just don’t know where he’d play unless as a DH or 1B. He’d be a kickass LF. I agree it is not going to happen but think about adding him to our offense, little Ted hitting like big Ted, and Correa, Altuve and Springer having bounce back years. |
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Post by thomasj13 on Feb 16, 2019 8:57:43 GMT -6
I just don’t know where he’d play unless as a DH or 1B. He’d be a kickass LF. I agree it is not going to happen but think about adding him to our offense, little Ted hitting like big Ted, and Correa, Altuve and Springer having bounce back years. For sh*ts and giggles, what type of contract would the Astros likely offer and Harper accept. 5 Years/175M with opt out after year 3.... I am just thinking, he is not going to take $30M a year, but no one is going to offer a 10 year contract....so would this work...hey, we are going to pay you more than $30M a year, ($34M)....and if you think you are being underpaid or you don't like the team's direction in 3 years, you more than free to leave. |
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Post by nathangarza29 on Feb 16, 2019 9:38:56 GMT -6
I agree it is not going to happen but think about adding him to our offense, little Ted hitting like big Ted, and Correa, Altuve and Springer having bounce back years. For sh*ts and giggles, what type of contract would the Astros likely offer and Harper accept. 5 Years/175M with opt out after year 3.... I am just thinking, he is not going to take $30M a year, but no one is going to offer a 10 year contract....so would this work...hey, we are going to pay you more than $30M a year, ($34M)....and if you think you are being underpaid or you don't like the team's direction in 3 years, you more than free to leave. I think it would be a 5 to 6 yr deal with an average AVV of around 34m With opt outs on yrs yea 4 5 and if a 6 And he would play 1B or DH |
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Post by nathangarza29 on Feb 16, 2019 9:52:07 GMT -6
I think it's a big game that Boras is playing. They wanna see if they can get longer contract.
But I think the overall will be Harper deciding where he wants to go and goes.
If and I say IF he comes to Houston.
Lunhow becomes a legend in the front office and most likely no team will deal with us in the long run. Unless we over pay.
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Post by nathangarza29 on Feb 16, 2019 9:53:23 GMT -6
Saying this I would still go get Castellanos and Lugo before Harper.
But I just have this hunch Lunhow is going to go after him like a shark in the water. They could move Brantley to 1B and let Harper run in LF
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Post by unionstation82 on Feb 16, 2019 10:04:21 GMT -6
Saying this I would still go get Castellanos and Lugo before Harper. But I just have this hunch Lunhow is going to go after him like a shark in the water. They could move Brantley to 1B and let Harper run in LF With that shoulder of his, I wouldn’t mind Brantley at 1B. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2019 11:13:41 GMT -6
Voodoo..... Maybe the wisest post you have made here. Don't get me wrong, I have no love for the owners either. It is just sad that the cost and the greed of the owners and players has deprived a lot of poorer fans their chance to see a MLB game. I do understand economics and if you look at the CPI and the rate of the cost of attending the game, they are way out of line. At some point there will be a tipping point, and it won't be pretty for the ass holes in question. (players and owners) Catfish, at one time I had similar thoughts. I no longer think that way. MLB is a business ... always has been, always will be. The owners can and should price their product at the sweet spot, where the number of units sold times the price per unit is the highest. If every game is a sellout, the pricepoint is probably too low. I don't blame the owners for their pricing. It's simple straightforward business. Nor do I blame the players or the MLBPA. They have every right to maximize their income and benefits. Likewise I don't blame Boras and his ilk. It's fun to hate on them and I do along with the rest of the fans. But the reality is, they're doing exactly what they should be doing. Helping the players get the best contracts possible. If we want to point fingers at anyone for the prices, we need look no farther than ourselves. If we don't want to pay so much for a ticket, then we shouldn't. Stop going to the ballpark. The dynamics of this business is far different than a typical business, though. This is a product that isn't necessary for the basic quality of life. It's not water, food, shelter, clothing, power, communication, waste disposal or transportation. It's entertainment and there are a limited number of seats. It's a monopoly, but one our government allows to exist. I agree with about 85% of your position. Still, (1) When the game becomes only a pastime for the wealthy, then it has lost it's soul. (2) It might not be in my lifetime, but there will be an econmic crisis that will bring the game to its knees. As I stated in the previous post... That tippinig point is going to be bad ugly. (3) Also along economic lines, when the wealth is concentrated in the elderly population, do you think the younger folks will hold interest, if they can not routinely attend or become a true fan of the game. And just wait and see what happens if there is another strike. What i mention above may be accelerated. |
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Post by astrosdoug on Feb 16, 2019 11:31:21 GMT -6
In some ways this discussion takes us back to the 1860s and 1870s, when they were debating whether it's honorable or wise for a man to accept money to play baseball at all.
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marshall
Veteran
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Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood...
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Post by marshall on Feb 16, 2019 13:32:56 GMT -6
In the future:
No more cable or network monopolies. All access will be by direct payment directly to the clubs. Going to the game remains a place for the wealthy to flaunt their wealth while 80% are playing with their Ipads. But the masses will get access via internet streaming and commercials will be added to the discounted programs and alternative commentary will be available for those with commercial free premiums.
The draft will go away as well as club control opening up a free for all, not only at waiver deadlines, but throughout the season and playoffs. Angels get eliminated and Trout immediately signs with the Stros for the playoffs or at least until they're eliminated. The Yankees decide to buy the best players of each team they face in each round because their fans demand it. Their team payroll goes to 2 Billion dollars because the Luxury tax is eliminated.
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talshill
Arbitration Eligible
Vini, vici, pavori.
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Post by talshill on Feb 16, 2019 13:45:59 GMT -6
Voodoo..... Maybe the wisest post you have made here. Don't get me wrong, I have no love for the owners either. It is just sad that the cost and the greed of the owners and players has deprived a lot of poorer fans their chance to see a MLB game. I do understand economics and if you look at the CPI and the rate of the cost of attending the game, they are way out of line. At some point there will be a tipping point, and it won't be pretty for the ass holes in question. (players and owners) Catfish, at one time I had similar thoughts. I no longer think that way. MLB is a business ... always has been, always will be. The owners can and should price their product at the sweet spot, where the number of units sold times the price per unit is the highest. If every game is a sellout, the pricepoint is probably too low. I don't blame the owners for their pricing. It's simple straightforward business. Nor do I blame the players or the MLBPA. They have every right to maximize their income and benefits. Likewise I don't blame Boras and his ilk. It's fun to hate on them and I do along with the rest of the fans. But the reality is, they're doing exactly what they should be doing. Helping the players get the best contracts possible. If we want to point fingers at anyone for the prices, we need look no farther than ourselves. If we don't want to pay so much for a ticket, then we shouldn't. Stop going to the ballpark. The dynamics of this business is far different than a typical business, though. This is a product that isn't necessary for the basic quality of life. It's not water, food, shelter, clothing, power, communication, waste disposal or transportation. It's entertainment and there are a limited number of seats. It's a monopoly, but one our government allows to exist. I agree. In a free market economy the business owner sets his prices on what the market will bear. The players do the same. Ideally, the product falls in price until an acceptable number of people buy it. Conversely, if it's selling like hotcakes, you raise the price. Certainly collective bargaining alters the landscape, but in the end the price will fall until someone buys it. |
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Post by paastrosfan on Feb 16, 2019 13:52:51 GMT -6
In the future: No more cable or network monopolies. All access will be by direct payment directly to the clubs. Going to the game remains a place for the wealthy to flaunt their wealth while 80% are playing with their Ipads. But the masses will get access via internet streaming and commercials will be added to the discounted programs and alternative commentary will be available for those with commercial free premiums. The draft will go away as well as club control opening up a free for all, not only at waiver deadlines, but throughout the season and playoffs. Angels get eliminated and Trout immediately signs with the Stros for the playoffs or at least until they're eliminated. The Yankees decide to buy the best players of each team they face in each round because their fans demand it. Their team payroll goes to 2 Billion dollars because the Luxury tax is eliminated. A good post Marsh, just looking how the Yankees have the "YES NETWORK" as their cash cow. The cable subscribers in the Yankee view area on their cable bill pay for that network, being a Baseball fan or not. |
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Post by Hunter McCormick on Feb 16, 2019 16:25:10 GMT -6
In some ways this discussion takes us back to the 1860s and 1870s, when they were debating whether it's honorable or wise for a man to accept money to play baseball at all. Yeah, it does. In a lot of ways. |
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Post by Hunter McCormick on Feb 16, 2019 16:25:30 GMT -6
I agree with about 85% of your position. That's because it's grounded in the concepts of a free market system. Still, (1) When the game becomes only a pastime for the wealthy, then it has lost it's soul. (2) It might not be in my lifetime, but there will be an econmic crisis that will bring the game to its knees. As I stated in the previous post... That tippinig point is going to be bad ugly. (3) Also along economic lines, when the wealth is concentrated in the elderly population, do you think the younger folks will hold interest, if they can not routinely attend or become a true fan of the game. I think baseball has already lost it's soul. The hype, merchandising, and in-your-face advertising have affected the understated elegance of the game. Half a century ago, the televised games had advertising the was necessarily tailored to fit the individual game. Now we tailor the game to fit the advertising requirements. I think younger people who can't afford to attend the games will still have interest as they'll be able to watch on television. But you're right to think the ability to watch in-person at the park is an important experience. And just wait and see what happens if there is another strike. What i mention above may be accelerated. I don't remember the year, maybe 81, but the strike put me so off baseball that I basically gave up on it entirely. I did watch the 84 series of course, and I did see a game at Fenway when I was on a trip to Boston but that was a social event sort of thing and would not have done so on my own. For the most part baseball was dead to me. I did get interested again mid-season in 2012. So yeah, if there's another strike that affects the season and we hear the rich owners and rich players whining again, you can color me gone. |
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Post by Hunter McCormick on Feb 16, 2019 16:27:35 GMT -6
I agree. In a free market economy the business owner sets his prices on what the market will bear. The players do the same. Ideally, the product falls in price until an acceptable number of people buy it. Conversely, if it's selling like hotcakes, you raise the price. Certainly collective bargaining alters the landscape, but in the end the price will fall until someone buys it. Catfish brought up an interesting point. If there's another strike, do you reckon ticket sales will take a big hit for a couple of years? |
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talshill
Arbitration Eligible
Vini, vici, pavori.
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Post by talshill on Feb 16, 2019 17:48:04 GMT -6
I agree. In a free market economy the business owner sets his prices on what the market will bear. The players do the same. Ideally, the product falls in price until an acceptable number of people buy it. Conversely, if it's selling like hotcakes, you raise the price. Certainly collective bargaining alters the landscape, but in the end the price will fall until someone buys it. Catfish brought up an interesting point. If there's another strike, do you reckon ticket sales will take a big hit for a couple of years? I think so. The average working guy who does most of the funding for the major sports doesn't understand nor does he care about the intricacies of high finance. Hell, neither do I. He just sees a bunch of rich dudes arguing with other rich dudes while he's forced to pony up hundreds of bucks to take his kids to see a game or see his cable bill rise because of it. He wants to watch his favorite team play, see how the youngsters progress and if there's any hope his fandom will be rewarded with a winner. I think a strike would piss him off to such a degree that he'll just hold onto his money and do something else, at least for a while. Personally, I love baseball. I think it's the best game there is. Loved playing, love watching. Tobacco spit, strawberries on your knees, brushback pitches, trying to hit a round ball with round bat, etc. Love it. As one guy said you can't run out the clock, you can't just take a knee in baseball; you have to throw the ball across the plate and let the other guy have his shot. I get ticked off when I hear about attempts to institute a clock or move back the mound or jack with the game in general. It's a symptom of the greater problem of this ADD society: they've been entertained so much that they don't want to think. That's what AMUSE means, to NOT think. Baseball is a thinking man's game, an analogue game in a digital world. I hope they don't ruin it for me. <end soapbox> |
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