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Post by blcoach8 on Feb 28, 2020 10:13:27 GMT -6
It’s either or. We won’t know until a Mike Fiers comes out with such heavy accusations. Logan Morrison called out the Dodgers, Red Sox, and Yankees along with us. Only the Red Sox are being investigated due to the known Cora link. Yet the Yankees and Dodgers, who have both been accused by other teams and players, are not being investigated. I don't believe there is a conspiracy, but it's a little strange that the two largest payrolls with two of the largest fanbases are not being investigated when there seems to be plenty of reasons to look into them. Especially considering the Yankees were fined in 2017 already. No doubt in my mind that the Yankees, Dodgers, and Red Sox ALL cheat. The only reason they are investigating the Red Sox is because of Cora. They will have to be forced to investigate the Yankees and Dodgers because they are the the big boys and Manfred is scared to cross. them. I agree with olpapa that Beltran brought the idea of using the CF camera with him from the Yankees. The Yankees whined because they knew they did and knew Beltran knew exactly how and brought it to the Astros with him. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Feb 28, 2020 10:35:39 GMT -6
I will always believe that Beltran brought with him from his time with the Yankees the idea of using the live feed from the CF camera to a monitor near the dugout for stealing signs in real time. He reportedly told the Astros prior to the 2017 season, “you are behind the times,” on stealing signs and getting that info to the batters. How else would he have known that the Astros were behind the times if he had not seen the CF camera used in conjunction with a monitor near the dugout process in action with another team. He spent all of the 2014 and 2015 seasons and the first 90 games of the 2016 season with the Yankees. I could believe that the trash can banging was Cora’s idea. I think that's exactly it. The Red Sox accused the Yankees of cheating back in 2017 already, and, while MLB claimed they didn't find enough evidence, they were still fined. Me thinks they cleaned up their act before the investigation showed up and they weren't investigated as seriously as we were, otherwise more would have come from it. The Astros pissed too many people off because of the culture in the FO and the success they had beating large market teams repeatedly. When you add in the fact that media (and social media) wants "likes and subscribes" spreading gossip and exaggerating stories, you get a perfect storm of who to single out as the problem. Make an example out of that problem team and then claim you've fixed the issue. That's what MLB wants. The Astros broke the rules, but this has been elevated way past what it should have been. Moneyball already pissed off a lot of the old guard, who resented being thought of as obsolete. I’ve heard that the Astros’ front office people were a bit smug in thinking that both their way was the best way and that other teams were behind the times. Perhaps, the original braintrust of Luhnow, Mejdal, Elias, Stearns, and even Goldstein were perceived as a threat not only by the Cardinals but by all the key revenue generating teams like the Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox, etc. They were the threat that had to be neutralized by the Big Boys in order to save face. |
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Post by Saint on Feb 28, 2020 10:41:18 GMT -6
I think that's exactly it. The Red Sox accused the Yankees of cheating back in 2017 already, and, while MLB claimed they didn't find enough evidence, they were still fined. Me thinks they cleaned up their act before the investigation showed up and they weren't investigated as seriously as we were, otherwise more would have come from it. The Astros pissed too many people off because of the culture in the FO and the success they had beating large market teams repeatedly. When you add in the fact that media (and social media) wants "likes and subscribes" spreading gossip and exaggerating stories, you get a perfect storm of who to single out as the problem. Make an example out of that problem team and then claim you've fixed the issue. That's what MLB wants. The Astros broke the rules, but this has been elevated way past what it should have been. Moneyball already pissed off a lot of the old guard, who resented being thought of as obsolete. I’ve heard that the Astros’ front office people were a bit smug in thinking that both their way was the best way and that other teams were behind the times. Perhaps, the original braintrust of Luhnow, Mejdal, Elias, Stearns, and evening Goldstein were perceived as a threat not only by the Cardinals but by all the key revenue generating teams like the Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox, etc. They were the threat that had to be neutralized by the Big Boys in order to save face. It probably didn't help, but it also doesn't help that the Astros were so dman obvious about it. And then some stat eggheads are already doing studies from the banging and are determining that it actually most likely hurt them more than helped them. So they broke the rules to no benefit and hurt their reputation. |
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Post by churchill on Feb 28, 2020 18:19:56 GMT -6
I think that's exactly it. The Red Sox accused the Yankees of cheating back in 2017 already, and, while MLB claimed they didn't find enough evidence, they were still fined. Me thinks they cleaned up their act before the investigation showed up and they weren't investigated as seriously as we were, otherwise more would have come from it. The Astros pissed too many people off because of the culture in the FO and the success they had beating large market teams repeatedly. When you add in the fact that media (and social media) wants "likes and subscribes" spreading gossip and exaggerating stories, you get a perfect storm of who to single out as the problem. Make an example out of that problem team and then claim you've fixed the issue. That's what MLB wants. The Astros broke the rules, but this has been elevated way past what it should have been. Moneyball already pissed off a lot of the old guard, who resented being thought of as obsolete. I’ve heard that the Astros’ front office people were a bit smug in thinking that both their way was the best way and that other teams were behind the times. Perhaps, the original braintrust of Luhnow, Mejdal, Elias, Stearns, and even Goldstein were perceived as a threat not only by the Cardinals but by all the key revenue generating teams like the Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox, etc. They were the threat that had to be neutralized by the Big Boys in order to save face. Do you consider the Astros a moneyball team, even though their payroll is among the highest in the league? |
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Post by unionstation82 on Feb 28, 2020 18:26:38 GMT -6
Moneyball already pissed off a lot of the old guard, who resented being thought of as obsolete. I’ve heard that the Astros’ front office people were a bit smug in thinking that both their way was the best way and that other teams were behind the times. Perhaps, the original braintrust of Luhnow, Mejdal, Elias, Stearns, and even Goldstein were perceived as a threat not only by the Cardinals but by all the key revenue generating teams like the Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox, etc. They were the threat that had to be neutralized by the Big Boys in order to save face. Do you consider the Astros a moneyball team, even though their payroll is among the highest in the league? No, it’s Moneyball scouting with financial backing. |
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Post by batman007 on Feb 28, 2020 19:33:29 GMT -6
It’s either or. We won’t know until a Mike Fiers comes out with such heavy accusations. Logan Morrison called out the Dodgers, Red Sox, and Yankees along with us. Only the Red Sox are being investigated due to the known Cora link. Yet the Yankees and Dodgers, who have both been accused by other teams and players, are not being investigated. I don't believe there is a conspiracy, but it's a little strange that the two largest payrolls with two of the largest fanbases are not being investigated when there seems to be plenty of reasons to look into them. Especially considering the Yankees were fined in 2017 already. The difference here is that Mike Fiers gave specifics on how exactly the Astros were cheating. He specifically says a camera in centerfield was set up and fed live video directly to the dugout where a player would decipher the pitch and bang a trash can. Logan Morrison gives no specifics and is very broad. He only says those teams used film to pick signs. Any team can go back and watch film to pick signs. One is a very specific, detailed accusation. The other is a broad, general accusation. |
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Post by batman007 on Feb 28, 2020 19:36:52 GMT -6
Provide a little proof that we weren’t. Show me the commissioner’s report that says other teams were doing what we were. I’ll wait. There is no proof that we weren't and there is no proof that other teams did not do the same thing. The commissioner hasn't had the balls to investigate another team. He made an example of the Astros, mainly because they had beaten the Yankees and Dodger. Manfred doesn't have the balls to investigte those two because he doesn't want to find anything on them. Plus, he would cover up anything he found on them. You are naive if you actually believe that the Astros are the only team to cheat. When this story broke out, you were one of the few screaming, "I'LL WAIT UNTIL THE COMMISSIONER'S REPORT IS OUT BEFORE I BELIEVE WE WERE CHEATING!" Now, WITHOUT a commissioner's report on every single other team, you are saying for certain that other teams are cheating. You can't have it both ways. |
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Post by Saint on Feb 28, 2020 19:41:39 GMT -6
Logan Morrison called out the Dodgers, Red Sox, and Yankees along with us. Only the Red Sox are being investigated due to the known Cora link. Yet the Yankees and Dodgers, who have both been accused by other teams and players, are not being investigated. I don't believe there is a conspiracy, but it's a little strange that the two largest payrolls with two of the largest fanbases are not being investigated when there seems to be plenty of reasons to look into them. Especially considering the Yankees were fined in 2017 already. The difference here is that Mike Fiers gave specifics on how exactly the Astros were cheating. He specifically says a camera in centerfield was set up and fed live video directly to the dugout where a player would decipher the pitch and bang a trash can. Logan Morrison gives no specifics and is very broad. He only says those teams used film to pick signs. Any team can go back and watch film to pick signs. One is a very specific, detailed accusation. The other is a broad, general accusation. So accusations have stipulations? Even if there are multiple? |
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Post by batman007 on Feb 28, 2020 19:56:59 GMT -6
The difference here is that Mike Fiers gave specifics on how exactly the Astros were cheating. He specifically says a camera in centerfield was set up and fed live video directly to the dugout where a player would decipher the pitch and bang a trash can. Logan Morrison gives no specifics and is very broad. He only says those teams used film to pick signs. Any team can go back and watch film to pick signs. One is a very specific, detailed accusation. The other is a broad, general accusation. So accusations have stipulations? Even if there are multiple? I mean, do you think the police and FBI hardcore investigate every single threat that comes in? There has to be some credibility and substance to it. Logan Morrison's quote says, "I know from first hand accounts that the Yankees, Dodgers, Astros, and Red Sox all have used film to pick signs". Film. All teams use film to review the games. If he came out and said, "I know from first hand accounts these teams are using a live feed and banging trash cans", we'd probably have three more investigations going on. |
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Post by Saint on Feb 28, 2020 20:55:21 GMT -6
So accusations have stipulations? Even if there are multiple? I mean, do you think the police and FBI hardcore investigate every single threat that comes in? There has to be some credibility and substance to it. Logan Morrison's quote says, "I know from first hand accounts that the Yankees, Dodgers, Astros, and Red Sox all have used film to pick signs". Film. All teams use film to review the games. If he came out and said, "I know from first hand accounts these teams are using a live feed and banging trash cans", we'd probably have three more investigations going on. But this isn't a major crime. So if multiple accusations have come out, at what point does it get investigated? How much smoke does there need to be before the fire is no longer denied to exist? I agree that Fiers' accusation was more detailed, but that doesn't mean other claims are less true. |
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Post by batman007 on Feb 28, 2020 22:35:45 GMT -6
I mean, do you think the police and FBI hardcore investigate every single threat that comes in? There has to be some credibility and substance to it. Logan Morrison's quote says, "I know from first hand accounts that the Yankees, Dodgers, Astros, and Red Sox all have used film to pick signs". Film. All teams use film to review the games. If he came out and said, "I know from first hand accounts these teams are using a live feed and banging trash cans", we'd probably have three more investigations going on. But this isn't a major crime. So if multiple accusations have come out, at what point does it get investigated? How much smoke does there need to be before the fire is no longer denied to exist? I agree that Fiers' accusation was more detailed, but that doesn't mean other claims are less true. But that’s more likely the reason these other claims aren’t getting investigated. There’s nothing very concrete. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Feb 28, 2020 23:54:20 GMT -6
But this isn't a major crime. So if multiple accusations have come out, at what point does it get investigated? How much smoke does there need to be before the fire is no longer denied to exist? I agree that Fiers' accusation was more detailed, but that doesn't mean other claims are less true. But that’s more likely the reason these other claims aren’t getting investigated. There’s nothing very concrete. They aren't being investigated because Manfred doesn't want to be forced to have to take action against the Yankees or Dodgers. |
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Post by Saint on Mar 2, 2020 9:25:10 GMT -6
But this isn't a major crime. So if multiple accusations have come out, at what point does it get investigated? How much smoke does there need to be before the fire is no longer denied to exist? I agree that Fiers' accusation was more detailed, but that doesn't mean other claims are less true. But that’s more likely the reason these other claims aren’t getting investigated. There’s nothing very concrete. It was enough concrete that they slightly looked into it in 2017. So if there was enough to investigate back then, and more accusations have come out now, shouldn't that be pretty darn concrete to look into? |
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Post by unionstation82 on Mar 4, 2020 23:17:41 GMT -6
Logan Morrison called out the Dodgers, Red Sox, and Yankees along with us. Only the Red Sox are being investigated due to the known Cora link. Yet the Yankees and Dodgers, who have both been accused by other teams and players, are not being investigated. I don't believe there is a conspiracy, but it's a little strange that the two largest payrolls with two of the largest fanbases are not being investigated when there seems to be plenty of reasons to look into them. Especially considering the Yankees were fined in 2017 already. The difference here is that Mike Fiers gave specifics on how exactly the Astros were cheating. He specifically says a camera in centerfield was set up and fed live video directly to the dugout where a player would decipher the pitch and bang a trash can. Logan Morrison gives no specifics and is very broad. He only says those teams used film to pick signs. Any team can go back and watch film to pick signs. One is a very specific, detailed accusation. The other is a broad, general accusation. According to this article, the Astros used multiple signs at Dodger Stadium with no one on base. If they were the initiators of this practice and the sole cheating team in MLB, then why would they have that level of paranoia about the Dodgers stealing their signs? Like you said, the evidence is not concrete about the other teams, but Todd’s point is valid that there warrants thorough investigations of others regardless of the presence of whistleblowers. |
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Post by Saint on Mar 5, 2020 9:09:21 GMT -6
The difference here is that Mike Fiers gave specifics on how exactly the Astros were cheating. He specifically says a camera in centerfield was set up and fed live video directly to the dugout where a player would decipher the pitch and bang a trash can. Logan Morrison gives no specifics and is very broad. He only says those teams used film to pick signs. Any team can go back and watch film to pick signs. One is a very specific, detailed accusation. The other is a broad, general accusation. According to this article, the Astros used multiple signs at Dodger Stadium with no one on base. If they were the initiators of this practice and the sole cheating team in MLB, then why would they have that level of paranoia about the Dodgers stealing their signs? Like you said, the evidence is not concrete about the other teams, but Todd’s point is valid that there warrants thorough investigations of others regardless of the presence of whistleblowers. And with the Dodgers you have to look at the fact that they were accused by the Brewers in 2018 as well. |
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Post by Saint on Mar 5, 2020 9:13:47 GMT -6
So McHugh is a Red Sock. Good luck to him.
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Post by unionstation82 on Mar 5, 2020 9:59:35 GMT -6
www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28830287/what-rewatching-two-key-astros-2017-world-series-games-tells-usAccording to this article, the Astros used multiple signs at Dodger Stadium with no one on base. If they were the initiators of this practice and the sole cheating team in MLB, then why would they have that level of paranoia about the Dodgers stealing their signs? Like you said, the evidence is not concrete about the other teams, but Todd’s point is valid that there warrants thorough investigations of others regardless of the presence of whistleblowers. And with the Dodgers you have to look at the fact that they were accused by the Brewers in 2018 as well. Which may have drawn Correa’s ire regarding the boldness of Bellinger to say what he had. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Mar 24, 2020 15:57:48 GMT -6
Thor got that Tommy John surgery. Whoopsies.
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Post by Saint on Mar 24, 2020 15:59:04 GMT -6
Thor got that Tommy John surgery. Whoopsies. I don't think he'll ever be the same. |
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Post by abregmanfan on Mar 24, 2020 16:12:39 GMT -6
Thor got that Tommy John surgery. Whoopsies. I hate that for him. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Mar 24, 2020 18:08:45 GMT -6
Thor got that Tommy John surgery. Whoopsies. I don't think he'll ever be the same. Either the Mets have the worst luck, or they’re the worst handlers of pitchers in decades. |
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Post by Saint on Mar 25, 2020 10:52:54 GMT -6
I don't think he'll ever be the same. Either the Mets have the worst luck, or they’re the worst handlers of pitchers in decades. You mean....since Dusty Baker? |
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Post by thomasj13 on Mar 25, 2020 10:55:17 GMT -6
Either the Mets have the worst luck, or they’re the worst handlers of pitchers in decades. You mean....since Dusty Baker? Good Ole Dusty, whatever happened to him? |
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Post by sempersmom on Mar 25, 2020 10:58:57 GMT -6
You mean....since Dusty Baker? Good Ole Dusty, whatever happened to him? I don't even care that he's our manager. I just want to see some baseball. |
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Post by Saint on Mar 25, 2020 10:59:56 GMT -6
You mean....since Dusty Baker? Good Ole Dusty, whatever happened to him? He's praising COVID-19 for taking some heat off the Astros for a while. |
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Post by thomasj13 on Mar 25, 2020 11:29:53 GMT -6
Good Ole Dusty, whatever happened to him? I don't even care that he's our manager. I just want to see some baseball. I was not a fan of Dusty Baker before he was hired. After realizing he was the perfect fit for the team, given the situation, I'm excited that he is here. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Mar 25, 2020 11:46:59 GMT -6
Dusty hasn't even coached a single game for us yet, and has already broken Verlander.
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Post by sempersmom on Mar 25, 2020 12:02:02 GMT -6
I don't even care that he's our manager. I just want to see some baseball. I was not a fan of Dusty Baker before he was hired. After realizing he was the perfect fit for the team, given the situation, I'm excited that he is here. I wouldn't go that far. |
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Post by thomasj13 on Mar 25, 2020 12:19:26 GMT -6
I was not a fan of Dusty Baker before he was hired. After realizing he was the perfect fit for the team, given the situation, I'm excited that he is here. I wouldn't go that far. I did, and I stand by it...If the Astros don't not lose a game in April, will you then be convinced? |
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Post by Saint on Mar 25, 2020 12:24:52 GMT -6
I did, and I stand by it...If the Astros don't not lose a game in April, will you then be convinced? Undefeated this April will probably mean they're tied for last place. Or first place...? |
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