|
|
Post by blcoach8 on Jun 22, 2021 20:18:49 GMT -6
Correa should be re-signed for his cojones. Bregman could use some. If I had to trade Bregman to keep Correa, I'd do it in a heartbeat. People talk about Carlos being injured. Bregman and his leg problems are getting old. |
|
|
|
Post by thomasj13 on Jun 22, 2021 20:20:29 GMT -6
Correa should be re-signed for his cojones. Bregman could use some. If I had to trade Bregman to keep Correa, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Says Corch June 22nd....Corch August 25th will probably say differently |
|
|
|
Post by Saint on Jun 22, 2021 20:35:53 GMT -6
Correa should be re-signed for his cojones. Bregman could use some. If I had to trade Bregman to keep Correa, I'd do it in a heartbeat. People talk about Carlos being injured. Bregman and his leg problems are getting old. Bregman averaged 156 games until last year. Let's relax a little. |
|
|
|
Post by blcoach8 on Jun 22, 2021 20:37:46 GMT -6
If I had to trade Bregman to keep Correa, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Says Corch June 22nd....Corch August 25th will probably say differently You never know....I doubt if I'll decide that we shouldn't re-sign Correa. As for Bregman, he has been basically a no-show since 2019. We haven't lost a game since he went to the IL and our offense has been much better. We need Tucker back more than we do Bregman. |
|
|
|
Post by blcoach8 on Jun 22, 2021 20:39:43 GMT -6
If I had to trade Bregman to keep Correa, I'd do it in a heartbeat. People talk about Carlos being injured. Bregman and his leg problems are getting old. Bregman averaged 156 games until last year. Let's relax a little. I didn't mention how many games he played. I am going by his production. He hasn't been very good since 2019 and he sucked last year in the regular and post season. Toro has produced more in a week than Bregman has in a month. He was 10-51 when he went on the IL. |
|
|
|
Post by Saint on Jun 22, 2021 20:59:25 GMT -6
Bregman averaged 156 games until last year. Let's relax a little. I didn't mention how many games he played. I am going by his production. He hasn't been very good since 2019 and he sucked last year in the regular and post season. Toro has produced more in a week than Bregman has in a month. He was 10-51 when he went on the IL. You said his leg issues have been a problem but up until this year he has only missed a tiny amount of games. A very tiny amount. And yes, his production is down from 2019, but last year and this year have still been quite a bit above average. A 118 OPS+ while slumping? Yes please. |
|
|
|
Post by unionstation82 on Jun 22, 2021 21:05:43 GMT -6
If I had to trade Bregman to keep Correa, I'd do it in a heartbeat. People talk about Carlos being injured. Bregman and his leg problems are getting old. Bregman averaged 156 games until last year. Let's relax a little. That’s fair. It’s also fair to criticize Correa’s injury history. However, let’s also not act like Bregman is Cal Ripken, Jr. with the playing through issues. |
|
|
|
Post by unionstation82 on Jun 22, 2021 21:06:13 GMT -6
Correa should be re-signed for his cojones. Bregman could use some. If I had to trade Bregman to keep Correa, I'd do it in a heartbeat. People talk about Carlos being injured. Bregman and his leg problems are getting old. I wouldn’t go that far. You don’t win championships by trading a core guy to keep another. |
|
talshill
Arbitration Eligible
Vini, vici, pavori.
Posts: 1,986
Likes: 1,097
|
Post by talshill on Jun 22, 2021 22:15:52 GMT -6
If they sign him to a ten year deal at $35MM per, it will be a FAR bigger blunder. Far smaller 'piles of cash'. Altuve is making $28MM per year. Bregman is making $30.5MM per year. NEITHER of these contracts were anything close to 10 years of the Astros being on the hook for large salaries. BOTH of these contracts end after the 2024 season. At some point, the Astros will need to rebuild. Given the current state of the farm system, it will probably be around the time Altuve and Bregman become free agents. JMO. Just because your friends jump off a bridge doesn't mean you should. Just because the Mets signed a contract that will certainly go upside-down in the later years, doesn't mean the Astros should. “...why would you blame a player for looking for life-time financial security for his family and himself.” As of the end of this year Correa will have made a little over $32 million and he hasn’t reached 27 yet. Unless he’s a complete financial buffoon he’s already set for life, as are his parents and his grandkids, too. This is about market value and, to either a greater or lesser extent, bragging rights for the individual player. I don’t blame any man for trying to reap all the financial rewards he can, but the player’s ego should have no role in negotiations. From Click’s point of view his value is based solely on his potential for helping the club win. Correa is at least partially comparing the Astros offer to the one Lindor received. Correa has missed significant chunks of his career already and I can guarantee you that the Astros know exactly what’s wrong with his back and how likely it is to be a chronic problem. Overall he’s better than Lindor based on the two players having roughly the same WAR even though Correa has played far fewer games. However, the reason he didn’t get the huge offer is exactly because he’s played fewer games. I’m not smart enough to know how much or for how long the offer should be and I’d love to have Carlos locked up long-term. Just not at the expense of paying big bucks for a player who can only contribute 2/3 of the time. THAT is the decision. |
|
|
|
Post by blcoach8 on Jun 22, 2021 22:24:02 GMT -6
I didn't mention how many games he played. I am going by his production. He hasn't been very good since 2019 and he sucked last year in the regular and post season. Toro has produced more in a week than Bregman has in a month. He was 10-51 when he went on the IL. You said his leg issues have been a problem but up until this year he has only missed a tiny amount of games. A very tiny amount. And yes, his production is down from 2019, but last year and this year have still been quite a bit above average. A 118 OPS+ while slumping? Yes please. Dusty refused to drop him down in the lineup even though he was hurting the team in the three spot. I doubt if it is a coincidence that our offense has been better overall without him in the lineup. I want the version of Bregman we saw from 2017 to 2019. What we have seen since isn't very good. He gets himself behind in the count by taking strikes that he should hit. He has stopped driving the ball and is hitting too many weak fly balls and ground balls. He is also hitting into too many DP's. When he returns healthy, bat him 6th and see what happens. |
|
|
|
Post by paastrosfan on Jun 22, 2021 22:36:52 GMT -6
“...why would you blame a player for looking for life-time financial security for his family and himself.” As of the end of this year Correa will have made a little over $32 million and he hasn’t reached 27 yet. Unless he’s a complete financial buffoon he’s already set for life, as are his parents and his grandkids, too. This is about market value and, to either a greater or lesser extent, bragging rights for the individual player. I don’t blame any man for trying to reap all the financial rewards he can, but the player’s ego should have no role in negotiations. From Click’s point of view his value is based solely on his potential for helping the club win. Correa is at least partially comparing the Astros offer to the one Lindor received. Correa has missed significant chunks of his career already and I can guarantee you that the Astros know exactly what’s wrong with his back and how likely it is to be a chronic problem. Overall he’s better than Lindor based on the two players having roughly the same WAR even though Correa has played far fewer games. However, the reason he didn’t get the huge offer is exactly because he’s played fewer games. I’m not smart enough to know how much or for how long the offer should be and I’d love to have Carlos locked up long-term. Just not at the expense of paying big bucks for a player who can only contribute 2/3 of the time. THAT is the decision. I agree with a lot of what you wrote. When talking about financial security, of Correa making as much of what you mentioned, my thought goes to Vince Young who claimed bankruptcy making much more in very little time. Who knows how CC handles his finances. I would hate to see him leave, but as a fan of this team we have seen more than our fair share of hero's leave. |
|
talshill
Arbitration Eligible
Vini, vici, pavori.
Posts: 1,986
Likes: 1,097
|
Post by talshill on Jun 23, 2021 2:12:27 GMT -6
As of the end of this year Correa will have made a little over $32 million and he hasn’t reached 27 yet. Unless he’s a complete financial buffoon he’s already set for life, as are his parents and his grandkids, too. This is about market value and, to either a greater or lesser extent, bragging rights for the individual player. I don’t blame any man for trying to reap all the financial rewards he can, but the player’s ego should have no role in negotiations. From Click’s point of view his value is based solely on his potential for helping the club win. Correa is at least partially comparing the Astros offer to the one Lindor received. Correa has missed significant chunks of his career already and I can guarantee you that the Astros know exactly what’s wrong with his back and how likely it is to be a chronic problem. Overall he’s better than Lindor based on the two players having roughly the same WAR even though Correa has played far fewer games. However, the reason he didn’t get the huge offer is exactly because he’s played fewer games. I’m not smart enough to know how much or for how long the offer should be and I’d love to have Carlos locked up long-term. Just not at the expense of paying big bucks for a player who can only contribute 2/3 of the time. THAT is the decision. I agree with a lot of what you wrote. When talking about financial security, of Correa making as much of what you mentioned, my thought goes to Vince Young who claimed bankruptcy making much more in very little time. Who knows how CC handles his finances. I would hate to see him leave, but as a fan of this team we have seen more than our fair share of hero's leave. Well that really wasn’t directed so much at you as it was the notion that Correa needed some big contract to support his family. These guys make insane amounts of money. It’s silly for anyone to say that any of these ball players are “worth” $30 million a year. None of them are. I grew up poor. My dad was a hard worker but only had a ninth grade education. Because he realized the value of an education that he didn’t have he was insistent that his kids be educated AND work hard. Today four of his five kids are wealthy. It may seem counterintuitive, but having and maintaining wealth requires a discipline most people don’t have. I had to learn it. The point being that if these guys go broke after earning the money they do I find it difficult to feel sympathetic. |
|
|
|
Post by m240 on Jun 23, 2021 7:05:56 GMT -6
We saw first hand what bad wheels will do to a hitter by watching Altuve suffer through a couple. If he gets his legs back under him and goes back to his early season approach he would be the perfect 2 hole hitter. The problem is , so is Brantley. So sliding him into 6 when he returns and Tucker into 7 makes great sense. no doubt having 7 guys with over an 800 ops is a nice problem to have.
|
|
|
|
Post by Hunter McCormick on Jun 23, 2021 7:59:35 GMT -6
I think we can all agree that Correa is playing his best ball right now. So look back and see what the value of his first 6 years would be by using war values. The value of each point in war is 8 million. of the big money deals which ones look really bad now. Trout, no the Angels still do that deal Let's take a look at the deal for the greatest player in baseball today and apply some of your math. 2012 through 2019, Mike averaged 9.0 WAR per year. Given your $8MM per WAR number, that means he is 'worth' $72 million per year. But he's only being paid $37,116,667 per year. How did the Angels get him to sign so cheap?!Maybe both Mike and the Angels recognize that long-term security has strong value to the player (and presents a potential liability to the team)? So if Carlos is 'worth' $35MM per year, perhaps the Astros should offer that much ... for two or three years of obligation. He wants ten years of financial security? Maybe the per-year salary should decrease considerably. Say ... $18 million per year? |
|
|
|
Post by Saint on Jun 23, 2021 8:16:50 GMT -6
Bregman averaged 156 games until last year. Let's relax a little. That’s fair. It’s also fair to criticize Correa’s injury history. However, let’s also not act like Bregman is Cal Ripken, Jr. with the playing through issues. Who acted like he's Ripken? I'm just pointing out the comparison since it was brought up. 2017-2020 Percentage of Games PlayedBregman: 93% Correa: 64% There's no comparison at this point. Even if Bregman only played half of this season and Correa played every remaining game, Bregman would have played in 81% of our games from 2017-2021 and Correa only 71%. |
|
|
|
Post by blcoach8 on Jun 23, 2021 8:57:18 GMT -6
We saw first hand what bad wheels will do to a hitter by watching Altuve suffer through a couple. If he gets his legs back under him and goes back to his early season approach he would be the perfect 2 hole hitter. The problem is , so is Brantley. So sliding him into 6 when he returns and Tucker into 7 makes great sense. no doubt having 7 guys with over an 800 ops is a nice problem to have. Keeping Bregman in the three spot is pure stupidity. |
|
|
|
Post by unionstation82 on Jun 23, 2021 10:15:55 GMT -6
That’s fair. It’s also fair to criticize Correa’s injury history. However, let’s also not act like Bregman is Cal Ripken, Jr. with the playing through issues. Who acted like he's Ripken? I'm just pointing out the comparison since it was brought up. 2017-2020 Percentage of Games PlayedBregman: 93% Correa: 64% There's no comparison at this point. Even if Bregman only played half of this season and Correa played every remaining game, Bregman would have played in 81% of our games from 2017-2021 and Correa only 71%. Not you, specifically. I was being general. |
|
|
|
Post by unionstation82 on Jun 23, 2021 10:20:29 GMT -6
This is the fourth or fifth time that I can remember Bregman going down for a muscle pull. Since last year, he has been sidelined three times including twice this season. He first pulled a hamstring back in the Hinch Era. This is a thing now with Bregman, and the healthy past doesn’t change that fact. So, for people to bring up that Correa shouldn’t get paid for his injuries while Bregman already is getting paid, their argument runs hollow.
|
|
|
|
Post by Saint on Jun 23, 2021 10:38:34 GMT -6
This is the fourth or fifth time that I can remember Bregman going down for a muscle pull. Since last year, he has been sidelined three times including twice this season. He first pulled a hamstring back in the Hinch Era. This is a thing now with Bregman, and the healthy past doesn’t change that fact. So, for people to bring up that Correa shouldn’t get paid for his injuries while Bregman already is getting paid, their argument runs hollow. So, if Bregman's contract ends up bad because of continuing injuries, we should be okay with offering another guy a big contract who we think will also have continuing injury issues? That's like saying your cheeseburger sucked at Whataburger so it's okay if other cheeseburgers suck in the future because you already had a bad cheeseburger. Just because you had a bad cheeseburger doesn't mean you need to keep eating bad cheeseburgers, son. |
|
|
|
Post by blcoach8 on Jun 23, 2021 11:16:59 GMT -6
This is the fourth or fifth time that I can remember Bregman going down for a muscle pull. Since last year, he has been sidelined three times including twice this season. He first pulled a hamstring back in the Hinch Era. This is a thing now with Bregman, and the healthy past doesn’t change that fact. So, for people to bring up that Correa shouldn’t get paid for his injuries while Bregman already is getting paid, their argument runs hollow. Funny how people keep harping on Correa's injuries while Bregman's hamstring.......and now a quad........has him on the IL. He hasn't done much of anything since 2019, but, nobody mentions all the money we pay him. Correa is worth more than Bregman and as much as Altuve. We already lost Springer and we damn sure don't need to lose Correa, who would be more difficult to replace than Bregman. |
|
|
|
Post by Saint on Jun 23, 2021 11:18:40 GMT -6
This is the fourth or fifth time that I can remember Bregman going down for a muscle pull. Since last year, he has been sidelined three times including twice this season. He first pulled a hamstring back in the Hinch Era. This is a thing now with Bregman, and the healthy past doesn’t change that fact. So, for people to bring up that Correa shouldn’t get paid for his injuries while Bregman already is getting paid, their argument runs hollow. Funny how people keep harping on Correa's injuries while Bregman's hamstring.......and now a quad........has him on the IL. He hasn't done much of anything since 2019, but, nobody mentions all the money we pay him. Correa is worth more than Bregman and as much as Altuve. We already lost Springer and we damn sure don't need to lose Correa, who would be more difficult to replace than Bregman. "He hasn't done much of anything since 2019" You mean the 60 game season in 2020 and half of a season now? It literally hasn't even been an entire season worth of playing time since 2019 and you're saying we're paying him too much money. |
|
|
|
Post by blcoach8 on Jun 23, 2021 11:24:24 GMT -6
Funny how people keep harping on Correa's injuries while Bregman's hamstring.......and now a quad........has him on the IL. He hasn't done much of anything since 2019, but, nobody mentions all the money we pay him. Correa is worth more than Bregman and as much as Altuve. We already lost Springer and we damn sure don't need to lose Correa, who would be more difficult to replace than Bregman. "He hasn't done much of anything since 2019" You mean the 60 game season in 2020 and half of a season now? It literally hasn't even been an entire season worth of playing time since 2019 and you're saying we're paying him too much money. I said we were paying him too much money before the 2020 season. Compared to what we are getting from Bregman for the money, giving Correa a deal worth $30 million or more a year sounds like a bargain. Yes, we are paying Bregman too much money. |
|
|
|
Post by Saint on Jun 23, 2021 11:30:14 GMT -6
I don't understand y'all's reasoning. So paying one guy too much money means it's okay to pay somebody else too much money?
I'd like to see them get Correa back as well, but using the argument that we're "paying others too much so it's okay" is the weirdest rationale.
A bad contract should make you want to avoid another bad contract... (Even though it's way too early to say if Bregman's extension is a bad deal.)
|
|
|
|
Post by unionstation82 on Jun 23, 2021 12:13:03 GMT -6
I don't understand y'all's reasoning. So paying one guy too much money means it's okay to pay somebody else too much money? I'd like to see them get Correa back as well, but using the argument that we're "paying others too much so it's okay" is the weirdest rationale. A bad contract should make you want to avoid another bad contract... (Even though it's way too early to say if Bregman's extension is a bad deal.) I’m not saying it’s okay to give away bad contracts. I’m just saying the rationale looks weak due to Bregman’s injuries. |
|
|
|
Post by Saint on Jun 23, 2021 12:20:00 GMT -6
I don't understand y'all's reasoning. So paying one guy too much money means it's okay to pay somebody else too much money? I'd like to see them get Correa back as well, but using the argument that we're "paying others too much so it's okay" is the weirdest rationale. A bad contract should make you want to avoid another bad contract... (Even though it's way too early to say if Bregman's extension is a bad deal.) I’m not saying it’s okay to give away bad contracts. I’m just saying the rationale looks weak due to Bregman’s injuries. No it doesn't. Correa has a known history of long-standing health issues. Bregman had absolutely none when he was extended. If Bregman had shown on going health issues prior to his extension, he likely would not have received it (or at least as much as he got). They're in two entirely different situations and shouldn't really be compared. This year alone, yes, Correa looks like he should be getting paid more than Bregman. But based on what we knew when Bregman got his extension, he was obviously the far more productive player and deserving of more money. |
|
|
|
Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Jun 23, 2021 12:22:28 GMT -6
I agree with a lot of what you wrote. When talking about financial security, of Correa making as much of what you mentioned, my thought goes to Vince Young who claimed bankruptcy making much more in very little time. Who knows how CC handles his finances. I would hate to see him leave, but as a fan of this team we have seen more than our fair share of hero's leave. Well that really wasn’t directed so much at you as it was the notion that Correa needed some big contract to support his family. These guys make insane amounts of money. It’s silly for anyone to say that any of these ball players are “worth” $30 million a year. None of them are. I grew up poor. My dad was a hard worker but only had a ninth grade education. Because he realized the value of an education that he didn’t have he was insistent that his kids be educated AND work hard. Today four of his five kids are wealthy. It may seem counterintuitive, but having and maintaining wealth requires a discipline most people don’t have. I had to learn it. The point being that if these guys go broke after earning the money they do I find it difficult to feel sympathetic. What happened to the 5th kid? |
|
|
|
Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Jun 23, 2021 12:27:46 GMT -6
God damn, I hate a hypocrite.
|
|
|
|
Post by bearbryant on Jun 23, 2021 12:37:58 GMT -6
When the season started, no one was on board with signing Correa for 8 years. There appears to be some softening there
|
|
|
|
Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Jun 23, 2021 12:53:59 GMT -6
When the season started, no one was on board with signing Correa for 8 years. There appears to be some softening there And some of his biggest "fans" calling for $30,000,000 today were the same hypocrites wanting him cut when he was injured last year and ineffective early this year. |
|
|
|
Post by bearbryant on Jun 23, 2021 13:04:19 GMT -6
When the season started, no one was on board with signing Correa for 8 years. There appears to be some softening there And some of his biggest "fans" calling for $30,000,000 today were the same hypocrites wanting him cut when he was injured last year and ineffective early this year. |
|
