talshill
Arbitration Eligible
Vini, vici, pavori.
Posts: 2,015
Likes: 1,114
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Post by talshill on Jun 25, 2021 18:06:06 GMT -6
"Would the Astros buy insurance on the contract?" You betcha. As far as I know, teams insure all big-money contracts going back for several years. They filed a claim on Bagwell in in '06 when it was obvious he couldn't play anymore. Hey talshill , the reason I asked that question (and particularly the one in bold) is because big-money contracts have become prohibitively expensive. I don't know whether it wasn't possible for the Rangers to insure the full amount of the Prince Fielder contract or if the price goes up exponentially as the coverage percentage increases. The Rangers obviously got no compensation for the three years Fielder played poorly for them. But during the last four years of his contract, he was unable to play at all. That's when insurance kicked in. The Tigers were paying $6MM per year of his $24MM annually salary. The Rangers were paying $18MM per year. Insurance only covered half that. So the Rangers were still paying $9MM per year and the insurance was covering a like amount. This is what a very brief search yielded. I'd absolutely love to keep Correa, injury history and all. But not if it ends up making the 'Stros a worse team, and I think signing him to a 10-year deal (if that's what he wants) would ultimately make Houston a worse team. |
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Post by bearbryant on Jun 26, 2021 0:21:53 GMT -6
Hey talshill , the reason I asked that question (and particularly the one in bold) is because big-money contracts have become prohibitively expensive. I don't know whether it wasn't possible for the Rangers to insure the full amount of the Prince Fielder contract or if the price goes up exponentially as the coverage percentage increases. The Rangers obviously got no compensation for the three years Fielder played poorly for them. But during the last four years of his contract, he was unable to play at all. That's when insurance kicked in. The Tigers were paying $6MM per year of his $24MM annually salary. The Rangers were paying $18MM per year. Insurance only covered half that. So the Rangers were still paying $9MM per year and the insurance was covering a like amount. This is what a very brief search yielded. I'd absolutely love to keep Correa, injury history and all. But not if it ends up making the 'Stros a worse team, and I think signing him to a 10-year deal (if that's what he wants) would ultimately make Houston a worse team. |
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Post by Hunter McCormick on Jun 26, 2021 8:33:44 GMT -6
The pal I talk baseball most with has rooted for the Angels for 35 years. Among other criticisms he says the Trout and Pujols contracts have them stuck in mediocrity Hey Bear, tell your friend I half-agree with him. Yes, they've been paying Mike bushels of money, but he's absolutely been worth it ... so far. Will that contract go south before it's over? Maybe. But so far, Trout has been earning his money. On Pujols, he's spot-on. That deal has been completely upside-down for over five years. I don't see any way to justify salaries ranging from $26MM to $30MM for a position player with an OPS+ on the wrong side of 100. They got value from Anthony Rendon for his first year in an Angel's uniform. This year, not-so-much. His OPS+ is a mere 79 so far this season. They better hope he turns things around in the next five years. They'll be paying him Trout-money real soon! The Angels are no strangers to having a player in decline clogging up their payroll. Ask your friend if he remembers Vernon Wells? |
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Post by unionstation82 on Jun 26, 2021 9:04:26 GMT -6
The pal I talk baseball most with has rooted for the Angels for 35 years. Among other criticisms he says the Trout and Pujols contracts have them stuck in mediocrity Hey Bear, tell your friend I half-agree with him. Yes, they've been paying Mike bushels of money, but he's absolutely been worth it ... so far. Will that contract go south before it's over? Maybe. But so far, Trout has been earning his money. On Pujols, he's spot-on. That deal has been completely upside-down for over five years. I don't see any way to justify salaries ranging from $26MM to $30MM for a position player with an OPS+ on the wrong side of 100. They got value from Anthony Rendon for his first year in an Angel's uniform. This year, not-so-much. His OPS+ is a mere 79 so far this season. They better hope he turns things around in the next five years. They'll be paying him Trout-money real soon! The Angels are no strangers to having a player in decline clogging up their payroll. Ask your friend if he remembers Vernon Wells? Trout can’t earn the money if he’s also sitting and watching Ohtani-san do his job out there like the fans are. |
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Post by m240 on Jun 26, 2021 9:08:51 GMT -6
It is easy to default the Angels inability to put a winning team on the field to Pujols and Trout’s giant contracts and the resulting lack of funds hindering their ability to add other parts and pieces to their team. The real overall hinderance is more likely their inability to identify and field overall pitching talent. The only year in the last ten years that the Angels had a team era less than 4 they won 98 games.
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Post by Hunter McCormick on Jun 26, 2021 9:20:25 GMT -6
Trout can’t earn the money if he’s also sitting and watching Ohtani-san do his job out there like the fans are. Minor and temporary hiccup. |
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Post by Saint on Jun 26, 2021 9:26:43 GMT -6
The Pujols contract was a disaster, but I agree with m240. The lack of pitching has been their problem.
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Post by m240 on Jun 26, 2021 9:30:40 GMT -6
What seems to be getting lost in this discussion is the fact that our rotation will not cost the team like it has recently and what would be considered the “normal” amount for a championship team. Crane seems willing to spend money to field a championship team. He will not need to invest in expensive starting pitchers, relievers are not too pricey, so to keep our offense 7 strong deep while losing Correa we will either need to invest in the short stop position by either signing an expensive short stop in free agency or move Bergman’s large contract to short and signing an expensive free agent for third.
Perhaps a constructive approach would be to suggest an alternative to the Correa signing along with the potential dollars this approach may cost. So how do we keep this strong offensive and defensive team on the field without Correa.
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Post by thomasj13 on Jun 26, 2021 9:37:15 GMT -6
What seems to be getting lost in this discussion is the fact that our rotation will not cost the team like it has recently and what would be considered the “normal” amount for a championship team. Crane seems willing to spend money to field a championship team. He will not need to invest in expensive starting pitchers, relievers are not too pricey, so to keep our offense 7 strong deep while losing Correa we will either need to invest in the short stop position by either signing an expensive short stop in free agency or move Bergman’s large contract to short and signing an expensive free agent for third. Perhaps a constructive approach would be to suggest an alternative to the Correa signing along with the potential dollars this approach may cost. So how do we keep this strong offensive and defensive team on the field without Correa. Whether the rotation is young and cheap, Astros should not marry themselves to a player.... Overpay him for a shorter period....pay $40M over 3-4 years, instead of $30M over 8 years.... |
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Post by bearbryant on Jun 26, 2021 10:03:35 GMT -6
The pal I talk baseball most with has rooted for the Angels for 35 years. Among other criticisms he says the Trout and Pujols contracts have them stuck in mediocrity Hey Bear, tell your friend I half-agree with him. Yes, they've been paying Mike bushels of money, but he's absolutely been worth it ... so far. Will that contract go south before it's over? Maybe. But so far, Trout has been earning his money. On Pujols, he's spot-on. That deal has been completely upside-down for over five years. I don't see any way to justify salaries ranging from $26MM to $30MM for a position player with an OPS+ on the wrong side of 100. They got value from Anthony Rendon for his first year in an Angel's uniform. This year, not-so-much. His OPS+ is a mere 79 so far this season. They better hope he turns things around in the next five years. They'll be paying him Trout-money real soon! The Angels are no strangers to having a player in decline clogging up their payroll. Ask your friend if he remembers Vernon Wells? |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Jun 26, 2021 10:05:52 GMT -6
Hey Bear, tell your friend I half-agree with him. Yes, they've been paying Mike bushels of money, but he's absolutely been worth it ... so far. Will that contract go south before it's over? Maybe. But so far, Trout has been earning his money. On Pujols, he's spot-on. That deal has been completely upside-down for over five years. I don't see any way to justify salaries ranging from $26MM to $30MM for a position player with an OPS+ on the wrong side of 100. They got value from Anthony Rendon for his first year in an Angel's uniform. This year, not-so-much. His OPS+ is a mere 79 so far this season. They better hope he turns things around in the next five years. They'll be paying him Trout-money real soon! The Angels are no strangers to having a player in decline clogging up their payroll. Ask your friend if he remembers Vernon Wells? Trout can’t earn the money if he’s also sitting and watching Ohtani-san do his job out there like the fans are. Ohtani hit a bomb (close to 460 ft) last night at 116.x mph off the bat. |
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Post by bearbryant on Jun 26, 2021 10:13:32 GMT -6
It is easy to default the Angels inability to put a winning team on the field to Pujols and Trout’s giant contracts and the resulting lack of funds hindering their ability to add other parts and pieces to their team. |
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Post by m240 on Jun 26, 2021 10:19:26 GMT -6
What seems to be getting lost in this discussion is the fact that our rotation will not cost the team like it has recently and what would be considered the “normal” amount for a championship team. Crane seems willing to spend money to field a championship team. He will not need to invest in expensive starting pitchers, relievers are not too pricey, so to keep our offense 7 strong deep while losing Correa we will either need to invest in the short stop position by either signing an expensive short stop in free agency or move Bergman’s large contract to short and signing an expensive free agent for third. Perhaps a constructive approach would be to suggest an alternative to the Correa signing along with the potential dollars this approach may cost. So how do we keep this strong offensive and defensive team on the field without Correa. Whether the rotation is young and cheap, Astros should not marry themselves to a player.... Overpay him for a shorter period....pay $40M over 3-4 years, instead of $30M over 8 years.... That would be the first thing I would offer as well. If he refused then same dollars with mutual options after at also a high amount. If he refused that I would go ahead and put a deal in front of him that he would sign and then trade him after 3-4 years. + |
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Post by m240 on Jun 26, 2021 10:25:15 GMT -6
It is easy to default the Angels inability to put a winning team on the field to Pujols and Trout’s giant contracts and the resulting lack of funds hindering their ability to add other parts and pieces to their team. 10year deals usually wind up like Grienke’s with the team that originally signs the deal trading off the contract like Arizona, Miami with Stanton, and Texas with Rodrigues back in the day. Unfortunately like someone said with Correa we are damned if we do and damned if we do not. My choice is to be damned for trying to win more WS before 2024 when our window will most likely close |
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Post by unionstation82 on Jun 26, 2021 11:38:53 GMT -6
Trout can’t earn the money if he’s also sitting and watching Ohtani-san do his job out there like the fans are. Minor and temporary hiccup. Constantly hurt in his prime. I hope Bregman doesn’t become that way. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Jun 26, 2021 11:40:06 GMT -6
Trout can’t earn the money if he’s also sitting and watching Ohtani-san do his job out there like the fans are. Ohtani hit a bomb (close to 460 ft) last night at 116.x mph off the bat. And in a loss as usual. |
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Post by thomasj13 on Jun 26, 2021 11:50:11 GMT -6
It's not the money he bitches about. He's averse to 10-year deals like most here 10year deals usually wind up like Grienke’s with the team that originally signs the deal trading off the contract like Arizona, Miami with Stanton, and Texas with Rodrigues back in the day. Unfortunately like someone said with Correa we are damned if we do and damned if we do not. My choice is to be damned for trying to win more WS before 2024 when our window will most likely close Hopefully year 4 his trade value is still high |
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Post by paastrosfan on Jun 26, 2021 11:58:32 GMT -6
That is how to earn that contract Carlos.
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Post by m240 on Jul 5, 2021 8:00:54 GMT -6
Just read an article that laid out a case for Correa being worth 30 million a year and perhaps up to 10 years. The majority opinion of our group of scholars is that Crane will not sign/Correa is not worth a long term high value deal. Having said that, a long term high dollar deal is all that Correa will supposedly sign. So given these two diametrically opposed positions how about this;
10 year deal
mutual opt outs at 3 and 7 years
30 million per year with a 30 million signing bonus for the first 3 years
35 million per year for the next 4 years,
30 million per for the last 3.
limited no trade
no opt out penalty for either party
that is a better deal than Lindor and one that I think he would sign.
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Post by thomasj13 on Jul 5, 2021 8:12:54 GMT -6
Just read an article that laid out a case for Correa being worth 30 million a year and perhaps up to 10 years. The majority opinion of our group of scholars is that Crane will not sign/Correa is not worth a long term high value deal. Having said that, a long term high dollar deal is all that Correa will supposedly sign. So given these two diametrically opposed positions how about this; 10 year deal mutual opt outs at 3 and 7 years 30 million per year with a 30 million signing bonus for the first 3 years 35 million per year for the next 4 years, 30 million per for the last 3. limited no trade no opt out penalty for either party that is a better deal than Lindor and one that I think he would sign. I am confident he will re-sign here. Just a feeling. I rather him sign for a crazy amount/shorter time frame (5 years tops), than a lower AAV for 8 years+ |
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Post by m240 on Jul 5, 2021 9:05:04 GMT -6
Just read an article that laid out a case for Correa being worth 30 million a year and perhaps up to 10 years. The majority opinion of our group of scholars is that Crane will not sign/Correa is not worth a long term high value deal. Having said that, a long term high dollar deal is all that Correa will supposedly sign. So given these two diametrically opposed positions how about this; 10 year deal mutual opt outs at 3 and 7 years 30 million per year with a 30 million signing bonus for the first 3 years 35 million per year for the next 4 years, 30 million per for the last 3. limited no trade no opt out penalty for either party that is a better deal than Lindor and one that I think he would sign. I am confident he will re-sign here. Just a feeling. I rather him sign for a crazy amount/shorter time frame (5 years tops), than a lower AAV for 8 years+ Well that proposal does the trick for you. Houston can opt out after 3 years and 120 million. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Jul 5, 2021 9:34:25 GMT -6
Just read an article that laid out a case for Correa being worth 30 million a year and perhaps up to 10 years. The majority opinion of our group of scholars is that Crane will not sign/Correa is not worth a long term high value deal. Having said that, a long term high dollar deal is all that Correa will supposedly sign. So given these two diametrically opposed positions how about this; 10 year deal mutual opt outs at 3 and 7 years 30 million per year with a 30 million signing bonus for the first 3 years 35 million per year for the next 4 years, 30 million per for the last 3. limited no trade no opt out penalty for either party that is a better deal than Lindor and one that I think he would sign. I like it. Correa is continuing to prove his worth and show us that we must re-sign him. He is now the MVP of this team, no doubt about it. |
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Post by thomasj13 on Jul 5, 2021 9:50:43 GMT -6
Just read an article that laid out a case for Correa being worth 30 million a year and perhaps up to 10 years. The majority opinion of our group of scholars is that Crane will not sign/Correa is not worth a long term high value deal. Having said that, a long term high dollar deal is all that Correa will supposedly sign. So given these two diametrically opposed positions how about this; 10 year deal mutual opt outs at 3 and 7 years 30 million per year with a 30 million signing bonus for the first 3 years 35 million per year for the next 4 years, 30 million per for the last 3. limited no trade no opt out penalty for either party that is a better deal than Lindor and one that I think he would sign. I like it. Correa is continuing to prove his worth and show us that we must re-sign him. He is now the MVP of this team, no doubt about it. This year, yes, Correa is the MVP of the team. Followed by Yuli, Brantley, Altuve and Yordan. Besides his rookie year, is Correa finally playing up to his talent? Is he taking better care of his body, thus staying off the IL ? Or is it mainly because it's his contract year? Should we be a little bit skeptical, or purely coincidental? |
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Post by m240 on Jul 5, 2021 10:26:26 GMT -6
I like it. Correa is continuing to prove his worth and show us that we must re-sign him. He is now the MVP of this team, no doubt about it. This year, yes, Correa is the MVP of the team. Followed by Yuli, Brantley, Altuve and Yordan. Besides his rookie year, is Correa finally playing up to his talent? Is he taking better care of his body, thus staying off the IL ? Or is it mainly because it's his contract year? Should we be a little bit skeptical, or purely coincidental? No such thing as coincidence |
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Post by blcoach8 on Jul 5, 2021 11:05:41 GMT -6
This year, yes, Correa is the MVP of the team. Followed by Yuli, Brantley, Altuve and Yordan. Besides his rookie year, is Correa finally playing up to his talent? Is he taking better care of his body, thus staying off the IL ? Or is it mainly because it's his contract year? Should we be a little bit skeptical, or purely coincidental? No such thing as coincidence Probably a combination of learning how to take care of his body AND it being a contract year. I honestly think he wants to stay with the Astros, but, he is not going to take less than he can get elsewhere. |
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Post by thomasj13 on Jul 5, 2021 16:21:35 GMT -6
No such thing as coincidence Probably a combination of learning how to take care of his body AND it being a contract year. I honestly think he wants to stay with the Astros, but, he is not going to take less than he can get elsewhere. I definitely think the Astros will pay him, but only if he takes a 5-year deal or less..6 max... No way they took the risk on a 8-year plus deal.... And I'm not just saying that because I wouldn't offer to him either... It just had been proven over and over it's bad for a team to do it. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Jul 5, 2021 16:37:47 GMT -6
Probably a combination of learning how to take care of his body AND it being a contract year. I honestly think he wants to stay with the Astros, but, he is not going to take less than he can get elsewhere. I definitely think the Astros will pay him, but only if he takes a 5-year deal or less..6 max... No way they took the risk on a 8-year plus deal.... And I'm not just saying that because I wouldn't offer to him either... It just had been proven over and over it's bad for a team to do it. I think he would take a six year deal, but, it could take between $180-200 million to get him to sign. |
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Post by thomasj13 on Jul 5, 2021 16:47:58 GMT -6
I definitely think the Astros will pay him, but only if he takes a 5-year deal or less..6 max... No way they took the risk on a 8-year plus deal.... And I'm not just saying that because I wouldn't offer to him either... It just had been proven over and over it's bad for a team to do it. I think he would take a six year deal, but, it could take between $180-200 million to get him to sign. I was proposing a 5 year/190 M deal, with Carlos able to opt out years 4 or 5. $38M AAV would be extremely strong offer.... Way more than the Astros offered Altuve or Bregman. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Jul 5, 2021 16:59:19 GMT -6
I think he would take a six year deal, but, it could take between $180-200 million to get him to sign. I was proposing a 5 year/190 M deal, with Carlos able to opt out years 4 or 5. $38M AAV would be extremely strong offer.... Way more than the Astros offered Altuve or Bregman. Sounds like a fair offer and one he should strongly consider, and, he should take it.......But, who knows. Is Boras his agent? |
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Post by unionstation82 on Jul 5, 2021 22:22:09 GMT -6
I was proposing a 5 year/190 M deal, with Carlos able to opt out years 4 or 5. $38M AAV would be extremely strong offer.... Way more than the Astros offered Altuve or Bregman. Sounds like a fair offer and one he should strongly consider, and, he should take it.......But, who knows. Is Boras his agent? He’s represented by an agency called Endeavor, so not Scott Boras. |
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