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Post by unionstation82 on Feb 9, 2023 16:45:50 GMT -6
Can't do that regardless of their wins or losses, l still get to watch Ohtani, and Trout. The 2 most exciting players in the game. IMO While I don't want to see the Astros give up this run of success, Trout not getting one chance at a deep run in the postseason while in his prime would be such a complete loss for MLB. For their fans, it would be the equivalent of what we went through with Andre and J.J. |
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Post by Saint on Feb 9, 2023 16:58:51 GMT -6
I've seen a couple randoms on social media claiming Brown has already started talking to Boras about extensions for Bregman and Altuve as well. |
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Post by kyledriver1980 on Feb 9, 2023 18:46:57 GMT -6
How we feeling about the potential new slogan for 2023?
“Ready 2 Reign”
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Post by kyledriver1980 on Feb 9, 2023 18:48:05 GMT -6
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Post by unionstation82 on Feb 9, 2023 19:25:46 GMT -6
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talshill
Arbitration Eligible
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Post by talshill on Feb 9, 2023 20:07:41 GMT -6
Can't do that regardless of their wins or losses, l still get to watch Ohtani, and Trout. The 2 most exciting players in the game. IMO While I don't want to see the Astros give up this run of success, Trout not getting one chance at a deep run in the postseason while in his prime would be such a complete loss for MLB. I agree. But he handcuffed himself. Maybe at the time of the contract he felt like Arte would put more talent around him; dunno what his reasons were beyond $$. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Feb 9, 2023 20:13:18 GMT -6
While I don't want to see the Astros give up this run of success, Trout not getting one chance at a deep run in the postseason while in his prime would be such a complete loss for MLB. I agree. But he handcuffed himself. Maybe at the time of the contract he felt like Arte would put more talent around him; dunno what his reasons were beyond $$. Unlike most superstars, Trout is a case where most teams would gladly take on his salary. |
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talshill
Arbitration Eligible
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Post by talshill on Feb 9, 2023 20:17:21 GMT -6
Isn't that like Rooting for the Aggies  Unfortunately. Multiple A&M grads in my family. I almost went to Harvard. Then I discovered it was in Massachusetts. And I discovered that I could pay for an entire degree at a state university for what one year cost at Harvard. |
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talshill
Arbitration Eligible
Vini, vici, pavori.
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Post by talshill on Feb 9, 2023 20:31:05 GMT -6
All of what you said here might be alright if it came from anyone else besides you, the guy with the longest history of misjudging and underestimating and over-questioning one Mr. Jose Altuve. You have shit on him since he first came up to the big leagues. No, you and others took it that way for whatever reason. All I ever said about Altuve initially, was that he was overrated as a player his first few years with us. You took that "overrated" comment to mean I disliked him or didn't think he should be playing. I've always supported him and wanted him to do well, and he has taken over as my favorite current Astro for several years now. None of that changes the fact that he was overrated by Astros fans his first few years. He just was. He was a solid player, but he didn't become a very good player until his 4th season in the league. But Astros fans treated him like more than that before he established himself, just because he was an AS in 2012 despite really just being a slightly better than average player. Our team was so bad back then that fans were clinging to any bit of hope and going overboard. Since then, obviously Altuve has amounted to an elite status for several years. So, if anything, I should just be criticized for not recognizing his potential earlier on in his career. The "What's Wrong with Altuve" threads are mostly meant as slumpbusters and when he struggles, and as a tracker for how he is doing throughout the season (which I thought came across in the posts, but maybe not). Since he IS my current favorite Astro (although Tucker is moving up the list quickly), I get p*ssed when he slumps because I want him to do well and why I focus on his performance more than others a lot of the time. I had the same problem with Bagwell when I was a kid. I hope and want Altuve to be the next career Astro in the Hall. At least I never picked on him for his batting stance, hair style, or name like some people do............ Atuve has some of the best bat-to-ball skills I've ever seen. My only complaint about him are his occasional mental lapses at the plate (trying to hit everything) and on the base paths (getting picked off, etc.). Corch was correct about him in the respect that he sometimes does dumb things. If he had Berkman's plate discipline he'd challenge.400. |
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Post by abregmanfan on Feb 9, 2023 20:34:14 GMT -6
Can't do that regardless of their wins or losses, l still get to watch Ohtani, and Trout. The 2 most exciting players in the game. IMO While I don't want to see the Astros give up this run of success, Trout not getting one chance at a deep run in the postseason while in his prime would be such a complete loss for MLB. Some people are winners, others are not. |
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Post by Ashitaka on Feb 9, 2023 23:06:13 GMT -6
While I don't want to see the Astros give up this run of success, Trout not getting one chance at a deep run in the postseason while in his prime would be such a complete loss for MLB. I agree. But he handcuffed himself. Maybe at the time of the contract he felt like Arte would put more talent around him; dunno what his reasons were beyond $$. At the time I feel like I remember reading that he was kind of shy and didn't want to go to a new team. Some question if he really cares that much about making a deep playoff run and winning the World Series. |
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Post by olpapa on Feb 9, 2023 23:24:04 GMT -6
I agree. But he handcuffed himself. Maybe at the time of the contract he felt like Arte would put more talent around him; dunno what his reasons were beyond $$. At the time I feel like I remember reading that he was kind of shy and didn't want to go to a new team. Some question if he really cares that much about making a deep playoff run and winning the World Series. It seems to me that Trout is content with making the big bucks and being considered the greatest baseball player of all time, regardless of whether or not he ever plays for a winner. |
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Post by bearbryant on Feb 10, 2023 4:42:21 GMT -6
No, you and others took it that way for whatever reason. All I ever said about Altuve initially, was that he was overrated as a player his first few years with us. You took that "overrated" comment to mean I disliked him or didn't think he should be playing. I've always supported him and wanted him to do well, and he has taken over as my favorite current Astro for several years now. None of that changes the fact that he was overrated by Astros fans his first few years. He just was. He was a solid player, but he didn't become a very good player until his 4th season in the league. But Astros fans treated him like more than that before he established himself, just because he was an AS in 2012 despite really just being a slightly better than average player. Our team was so bad back then that fans were clinging to any bit of hope and going overboard. Since then, obviously Altuve has amounted to an elite status for several years. So, if anything, I should just be criticized for not recognizing his potential earlier on in his career. The "What's Wrong with Altuve" threads are mostly meant as slumpbusters and when he struggles, and as a tracker for how he is doing throughout the season (which I thought came across in the posts, but maybe not). Since he IS my current favorite Astro (although Tucker is moving up the list quickly), I get p*ssed when he slumps because I want him to do well and why I focus on his performance more than others a lot of the time. I had the same problem with Bagwell when I was a kid. I hope and want Altuve to be the next career Astro in the Hall. At least I never picked on him for his batting stance, hair style, or name like some people do............ Atuve has some of the best bat-to-ball skills I've ever seen. My only complaint about him are his occasional mental lapses at the plate (trying to hit everything) and on the base paths (getting picked off, etc.). Corch was correct about him in the respect that he sometimes does dumb things. If he had Berkman's plate discipline he'd challenge.400. It'd be nice if Altuve had less offerings on the outside pitch and Bregman had more, but it is what it is. Sometimes you have to take the good with the awesome |
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Post by unionstation82 on Feb 10, 2023 6:43:55 GMT -6
Atuve has some of the best bat-to-ball skills I've ever seen. My only complaint about him are his occasional mental lapses at the plate (trying to hit everything) and on the base paths (getting picked off, etc.). Corch was correct about him in the respect that he sometimes does dumb things. If he had Berkman's plate discipline he'd challenge.400. It'd be nice if Altuve had less offerings on the outside pitch and Bregman had more, but it is what it is. Sometimes you have to take the good with the awesome You’d want Altuve to scrap the oppo approach even with the dramatic shifts curtailed this season? |
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Post by unionstation82 on Feb 10, 2023 6:45:47 GMT -6
No, you and others took it that way for whatever reason. All I ever said about Altuve initially, was that he was overrated as a player his first few years with us. You took that "overrated" comment to mean I disliked him or didn't think he should be playing. I've always supported him and wanted him to do well, and he has taken over as my favorite current Astro for several years now. None of that changes the fact that he was overrated by Astros fans his first few years. He just was. He was a solid player, but he didn't become a very good player until his 4th season in the league. But Astros fans treated him like more than that before he established himself, just because he was an AS in 2012 despite really just being a slightly better than average player. Our team was so bad back then that fans were clinging to any bit of hope and going overboard. Since then, obviously Altuve has amounted to an elite status for several years. So, if anything, I should just be criticized for not recognizing his potential earlier on in his career. The "What's Wrong with Altuve" threads are mostly meant as slumpbusters and when he struggles, and as a tracker for how he is doing throughout the season (which I thought came across in the posts, but maybe not). Since he IS my current favorite Astro (although Tucker is moving up the list quickly), I get p*ssed when he slumps because I want him to do well and why I focus on his performance more than others a lot of the time. I had the same problem with Bagwell when I was a kid. I hope and want Altuve to be the next career Astro in the Hall. At least I never picked on him for his batting stance, hair style, or name like some people do............ Atuve has some of the best bat-to-ball skills I've ever seen. My only complaint about him are his occasional mental lapses at the plate (trying to hit everything) and on the base paths (getting picked off, etc.). Corch was correct about him in the respect that he sometimes does dumb things. If he had Berkman's plate discipline he'd challenge.400. Altuve has some mental lapses, but the one that he should stop doing is watching the play develop in the outfield. The base coaches are there to do that, just trust them. |
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Post by bearbryant on Feb 10, 2023 8:38:33 GMT -6
It'd be nice if Altuve had less offerings on the outside pitch and Bregman had more, but it is what it is. Sometimes you have to take the good with the awesome You’d want Altuve to scrap the oppo approach even with the dramatic shifts curtailed this season? It's not realistic to expect established All-Stars like Altuve and Bregman to change their plate approach. It's not something I would advocate either |
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Post by Saint on Feb 10, 2023 9:48:57 GMT -6
While I don't want to see the Astros give up this run of success, Trout not getting one chance at a deep run in the postseason while in his prime would be such a complete loss for MLB. I agree. But he handcuffed himself. Maybe at the time of the contract he felt like Arte would put more talent around him; dunno what his reasons were beyond $$. It's a hard choice for most good players that sometimes feels like they can't win. If they choose to leave the organization they start with, they upset all of their fans and get criticized for "following the money" or "being a traitor" yada yada yada. If they choose to stay with their original organization for whatever reason, they risk not improving their individual chances. I don't know his reasoning, but it'll be a shame to not see his level of talent in a real postseason (if that ends up being the case). I find it hard to believe he just stayed for money, because he would have made a sh*t ton of money no matter where he went. |
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Post by Saint on Feb 10, 2023 9:52:51 GMT -6
While I don't want to see the Astros give up this run of success, Trout not getting one chance at a deep run in the postseason while in his prime would be such a complete loss for MLB. Some people are winners, others are not. Sure, but Trout is a winner and the best position player of this generation by quite a bit (with Mookie, Freeman, Altuve, and Jose Ramirez rounding out the top-5, imo). If he can't get a team to the postseason, nobody would get that team to the postseason. |
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Post by Saint on Feb 10, 2023 9:53:48 GMT -6
At the time I feel like I remember reading that he was kind of shy and didn't want to go to a new team. Some question if he really cares that much about making a deep playoff run and winning the World Series. It seems to me that Trout is content with making the big bucks and being considered the greatest baseball player of all time, regardless of whether or not he ever plays for a winner. Well it's certainly hard to criticize him for that. Those are pretty good goals for an athlete. |
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Post by Saint on Feb 10, 2023 10:00:33 GMT -6
You’d want Altuve to scrap the oppo approach even with the dramatic shifts curtailed this season? It's not realistic to expect established All-Stars like Altuve and Bregman to change their plate approach. It's not something I would advocate either But what's interesting is that Altuve HAS changed his approach. He went from: 2011-2015: A pure contact/speed hitter. (Ichiro) 2016-2019: A free swinging power hitter that still maintained a high average. (Vlad, Sr.) 2020: A dud. (Maldonado) 2021-2022: To now a very balanced more patient hitter. (Goldschmidt) He's had great success at all approaches (outside of 2020). His most recent approach ages the best, so hopefully he sticks with it. |
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Post by olpapa on Feb 10, 2023 10:23:23 GMT -6
It seems to me that Trout is content with making the big bucks and being considered the greatest baseball player of all time, regardless of whether or not he ever plays for a winner. Well it's certainly hard to criticize him for that. Those are pretty good goals for an athlete. I see similarities between Trout and Joey Votto. Staying with their current team means more to them than winning. I don’t care how good an athlete is. If he doesn’t have a burning desire to win, I can’t consider him a “winner.” I don’t get the same vibe from Ohtani. I think he wants to be considered the best at what he does and he wants to be compensated accordingly, but I don’t think he will be satisfied with just that. I think he wants to win. |
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Post by bearbryant on Feb 10, 2023 10:43:00 GMT -6
It's not realistic to expect established All-Stars like Altuve and Bregman to change their plate approach. It's not something I would advocate either But what's interesting is that Altuve HAS changed his approach. He went from: 2011-2015: A pure contact/speed hitter. (Ichiro) 2016-2019: A free swinging power hitter that still maintained a high average. (Vlad, Sr.) 2020: A dud. (Maldonado) 2021-2022: To now a very balanced more patient hitter. (Goldschmidt) He's had great success at all approaches (outside of 2020). His most recent approach ages the best, so hopefully he sticks with it. I don't remember you commending Altuve in 2021 for being a balanced and patient hitter. I remember you complaining about his BA and OBP not being what we'd enjoyed in seasons past
Leaving that aside, it's not my belief these guys forget how to hit and be selective. It's aches and pains getting in the way
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Post by Saint on Feb 10, 2023 10:50:58 GMT -6
But what's interesting is that Altuve HAS changed his approach. He went from: 2011-2015: A pure contact/speed hitter. (Ichiro) 2016-2019: A free swinging power hitter that still maintained a high average. (Vlad, Sr.) 2020: A dud. (Maldonado) 2021-2022: To now a very balanced more patient hitter. (Goldschmidt) He's had great success at all approaches (outside of 2020). His most recent approach ages the best, so hopefully he sticks with it. I don't remember you commending Altuve in 2021 for being a balanced and patient hitter. I remember you complaining about his BA and OBP not being what we'd enjoyed in seasons past
Leaving that aside, it's not my belief these guys forget how to hit and be selective. It's aches and pains getting in the way
Well part of what I liked about Altuve was his high AVG. It's an uncommon thing and it made him standout more. I didn't love his 2021 season even though it was productive, but now we can see that it was him moving to this. He's improved that approach to what he did in 2022, and I loved his 2022 season. He merged the contact and the power, and now he has seemingly added the patience and got his base stealing back. 2022 Altuve is what I think all hitters should ultimately strive for. .300 AVG, patience, good power, smart base stealing. That's the Bagwell offensive approach. I would have preferred if he was able to keep the extreme high AVG (and therefore the high OBP) going longer, but averages eventually decline. The walks can go on even if the hits decline. I think his leg issues that started in 2018 forced him to develop more patience. |
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Post by Saint on Feb 10, 2023 10:55:12 GMT -6
Well it's certainly hard to criticize him for that. Those are pretty good goals for an athlete. I see similarities between Trout and Joey Votto. Staying with their current team means more to them than winning. I don’t care how good an athlete is. If he doesn’t have a burning desire to win, I can’t consider him a “winner.” I don’t get the same vibe from Ohtani. I think he wants to be considered the best at what he does and he wants to be compensated accordingly, but I don’t think he will be satisfied with just that. I think he wants to win. I don't know enough about Trout or Votto to comment on their desire to win, but I don't have an issue with franchise players being comfortable and wanting to stick with a particular franchise. If they're giving it their all and doing whatever they can do to help their team, I consider them winners. I don't care for players criticizing their teams and/or demanding trades to go hunt rings. That's part of what has ruined the NBA for me. |
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koolade2
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Post by koolade2 on Feb 10, 2023 11:09:39 GMT -6
Isn't that like Rooting for the Aggies Unfortunately. Multiple A&M grads in my family. I almost went to Harvard. Then I discovered it was in Massachusetts. And I discovered that I could pay for an entire degree at a state university for what one year cost at Harvard. When I was in HS I tried out for Football they let me join the Junior team. We were playing the Aggies HS team and Conroe was up pretty big so the coach finally put me in. Opposite the biggest guy on the other team, he ran over me like I was am ant hill knock me back about 10 yards or more. Yes I was smallest guy on both teams. I am sure the coach told other coach not to kill me but make sure I understood football was for me. So after the game the coach came I should resign that is my take on the Aggies. Truly only weight about 110 pounds soaking wet. |
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Post by bearbryant on Feb 10, 2023 11:16:51 GMT -6
I don't remember you commending Altuve in 2021 for being a balanced and patient hitter. I remember you complaining about his BA and OBP not being what we'd enjoyed in seasons past
Leaving that aside, it's not my belief these guys forget how to hit and be selective. It's aches and pains getting in the way
Well part of what I liked about Altuve was his high AVG. It's an uncommon thing and it made him standout more. I didn't love his 2021 season even though it was productive, but now we can see that it was him moving to this. He's improved that approach to what he did in 2022, and I loved his 2022 season. He merged the contact and the power, and now he has seemingly added the patience and got his base stealing back. 2022 Altuve is what I think all hitters should ultimately strive for. .300 AVG, patience, good power, smart base stealing. That's the Bagwell offensive approach. I would have preferred if he was able to keep the extreme high AVG (and therefore the high OBP) going longer, but averages eventually decline. The walks can go on even if the hits decline. I think his leg issues that started in 2018 forced him to develop more patience. Hitters tend to pull the ball when they're having leg issues. They derive power favoring the body's upper-half doing that (which isn't sore) compared to lower-half strength one needs to hit oppo |
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Post by bearbryant on Feb 10, 2023 11:41:01 GMT -6
IIRC Altuve had a conspicuously high percentage of his homers hit to LF in 2021, while in 2022 he was more balanced to all fields. I'm not going to speculate as to why this was, except that it probably wasn't because he lost his plate skills
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Post by unionstation82 on Feb 10, 2023 12:35:28 GMT -6
You’d want Altuve to scrap the oppo approach even with the dramatic shifts curtailed this season? It's not realistic to expect established All-Stars like Altuve and Bregman to change their plate approach. It's not something I would advocate either Bregman has turned it around. You can tell. Altuve seems to save the oppo for random moments. Tucker dramatically seemed to change his all-fields approach to pull-happy last season. Fortunately, the only thing that suffered was the batting average. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Feb 10, 2023 12:40:29 GMT -6
I see similarities between Trout and Joey Votto. Staying with their current team means more to them than winning. I don’t care how good an athlete is. If he doesn’t have a burning desire to win, I can’t consider him a “winner.” I don’t get the same vibe from Ohtani. I think he wants to be considered the best at what he does and he wants to be compensated accordingly, but I don’t think he will be satisfied with just that. I think he wants to win. I don't know enough about Trout or Votto to comment on their desire to win, but I don't have an issue with franchise players being comfortable and wanting to stick with a particular franchise. If they're giving it their all and doing whatever they can do to help their team, I consider them winners. We need more players like Joey Votto. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Feb 10, 2023 12:42:28 GMT -6
I see similarities between Trout and Joey Votto. Staying with their current team means more to them than winning. I don’t care how good an athlete is. If he doesn’t have a burning desire to win, I can’t consider him a “winner.” I don’t get the same vibe from Ohtani. I think he wants to be considered the best at what he does and he wants to be compensated accordingly, but I don’t think he will be satisfied with just that. I think he wants to win. I don't care for players criticizing their teams and/or demanding trades to go hunt rings. That's part of what has ruined the NBA for me. It’s a league full of bitchass crybabies. |
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