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Post by Ashitaka on Mar 7, 2023 0:10:03 GMT -6
Despite that, I wouldn't trade his contract for the one the Yankees are stuck with with Gerrit Cole. If you're upset Lance took his $85M deal while Correa rejected his $150M deal, then your problem's with Correa. Not folks who weren't fans of his injury history My opinion is if Correa was derided for his injuries, which I admit was fair, we should also criticize McCullers. That’s all. I would never fault Lance for taking the deal. I just think his contributions are a bit overstated. If he were the ace, he’d show up and pitch like one, but instead Framber and Javier surpassed him. Comparing him to Cole is difficult because it’s uncertain how much of his dominance was because of Spider Tack. However, I’d rather have him over Lance due to health and consistency. What good is a “deal” if the player doesn’t take the field often? I couldn’t care less where Lance would like to be buried. At least Cole pitches. 1. I think it's the level of criticism though. There seems to be downright hatred for LMJ on this forum. I would also say Correa and LMJ aren't a fair comparison anyway; Correa was looking for, and got, twice as much per year. 2. This might be the key to the whole issue. Do you think he should be expected to be an ace because of his contract? Because the reality is that $17 million a year is like #3 starter money right now. It's less than a qualifying offer. If he were as healthy as Cole, he'd be making nearly what Cole makes. Despite everything, LMJ's career numbers are comparable to Cole's relative to IP. Cole has only been worth about 0.6 WAR more than LMJ on average. It might be annoying, but if they get half of Cole's production for half of Cole's salary from LMJ, it doesn't seem to be something worth continually railing against. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Mar 7, 2023 0:56:23 GMT -6
I get the need to play the young players. We both agreed on Maldy getting way too much playing time, but I’m not a fan of inserting a young player in place of a star and just assuming it’ll work out. It worked with Peña, but I’m worried that Brown’s control might keep him from being that star everyone’s expecting him to be. Too early to be too concerned just as it is too early to call him JVs replacement. I never called him that. It’s what they’re hyping him up to be. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Mar 7, 2023 0:57:17 GMT -6
My opinion is if Correa was derided for his injuries, which I admit was fair, we should also criticize McCullers. That’s all. I would never fault Lance for taking the deal. I just think his contributions are a bit overstated. If he were the ace, he’d show up and pitch like one, but instead Framber and Javier surpassed him. Comparing him to Cole is difficult because it’s uncertain how much of his dominance was because of Spider Tack. However, I’d rather have him over Lance due to health and consistency. What good is a “deal” if the player doesn’t take the field often? I couldn’t care less where Lance would like to be buried. At least Cole pitches. Lance is not paid like an ace. He’s not paid to be injured either. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Mar 7, 2023 1:04:47 GMT -6
My opinion is if Correa was derided for his injuries, which I admit was fair, we should also criticize McCullers. That’s all. I would never fault Lance for taking the deal. I just think his contributions are a bit overstated. If he were the ace, he’d show up and pitch like one, but instead Framber and Javier surpassed him. Comparing him to Cole is difficult because it’s uncertain how much of his dominance was because of Spider Tack. However, I’d rather have him over Lance due to health and consistency. What good is a “deal” if the player doesn’t take the field often? I couldn’t care less where Lance would like to be buried. At least Cole pitches. 1. I think it's the level of criticism though. There seems to be downright hatred for LMJ on this forum. I would also say Correa and LMJ aren't a fair comparison anyway; Correa was looking for, and got, twice as much per year. 2. This might be the key to the whole issue. Do you think he should be expected to be an ace because of his contract? Because the reality is that $17 million a year is like #3 starter money right now. It's less than a qualifying offer. If he were as healthy as Cole, he'd be making nearly what Cole makes. Despite everything, LMJ's career numbers are comparable to Cole's relative to IP. Cole has only been worth about 0.6 WAR more than LMJ on average. It might be annoying, but if they get half of Cole's production for half of Cole's salary from LMJ, it doesn't seem to be something worth continually railing against. 1. There’s not a hatred for McCullers. There’s a hatred of his penchant for being constantly hurt, which is a common thing for him. We love what he represents in terms of pride for the team, city, and its fans. Do you think his last setback didn’t warrant criticism? 2. I think there are pundits out there who still see Lance as the veteran ace of the staff, and he has been called one before. I think we make a huge deal about pay as if we’re the ones signing his checks. He makes $17 million AAV. I don’t care about that. I just care about him being healthy and pulling his weight on the team, which he does not consistently do. As far as who I prefer between Cole and McCullers, I pick the guy who I feel would most likely give his team starts when needed. That guy is Cole. |
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Post by bearbryant on Mar 7, 2023 2:17:21 GMT -6
McCullers gets his share of criticism and derogatory names on this forum; I'm not sure where the sentiment comes from that he doesn't. I've been part of that for years, but his contract is typical Crane. Not half as bad as multiple commitments most clubs have with veteran players
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Post by unionstation82 on Mar 7, 2023 6:26:20 GMT -6
McCullers gets his share of criticism and derogatory names on this forum; I'm not sure where the sentiment comes from that he doesn't. I've been part of that for years, but his contract is typical Crane. Not half as bad as multiple commitments most clubs have with veteran players Are you talking about “McMullet” and whatnot? I’ve heard much worse namecalling before. |
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Post by thomasj13 on Mar 7, 2023 7:11:30 GMT -6
McCullers gets his share of criticism and derogatory names on this forum; I'm not sure where the sentiment comes from that he doesn't. I've been part of that for years, but his contract is typical Crane. Not half as bad as multiple commitments most clubs have with veteran players Are you talking about “McMullet” and whatnot? I’ve heard much worse namecalling before. McFragile, I think is the best. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Mar 7, 2023 9:33:20 GMT -6
Are you talking about “McMullet” and whatnot? I’ve heard much worse namecalling before. McFragile, I think is the best. Twitchy McMullet |
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Post by thomasj13 on Mar 7, 2023 10:51:04 GMT -6
McFragile, I think is the best. Twitchy McMullet I like to offer set a Twitchy McMullet, hold the cries |
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Post by bearbryant on Mar 7, 2023 11:59:35 GMT -6
1. There’s not a hatred for McCullers. There’s a hatred of his penchant for being constantly hurt, which is a common thing for him. We love what he represents in terms of pride for the team, city, and its fans. Do you think his last setback didn’t warrant criticism? There's no hate toward McCullers here for getting hurt all the time. For most with him it's been there, done that
Lance's biggest fan is probably Dusty. I'm not sure he'd still be with the club if we had another manager
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Mar 7, 2023 12:18:27 GMT -6
The biggest complaint about McMullet on this forum is his 10-cent brain and him falling completely apart every time an error happens behind him or something doesn't go his way. He can't control getting hurt, but he should damn sure be able to control his emotions and not act like an 8-year-old girl throwing a tantrum when he doesn't get his way.
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Post by Saint on Mar 7, 2023 12:37:15 GMT -6
Lance is not paid like an ace. He’s not paid to be injured either. Actually, his salary is lesser than his talent is worth (by the market's standards) because of the fact that he hasn't proven to stay healthy. If he didn't get injured so much, he'd be making several million more a year with a longer contract. |
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Post by Saint on Mar 7, 2023 12:44:10 GMT -6
The biggest complaint about McMullet on this forum is his 10-cent brain and him falling completely apart every time an error happens behind him or something doesn't go his way. He can't control getting hurt, but he should damn sure be able to control his emotions and not act like an 8-year-old girl throwing a tantrum when he doesn't get his way. He can do better about his emotions, but he's hardly on the same scale as many other vocal players around baseball. Hell, even JV was ejected a couple years back for arguing about not getting strike calls. People get emotional. Despite any perceived emotional issues, his results are generally excellent when he's healthy. If he could prove to stay healthy, he'd be making much more than he is now. So saying his contract is bad right now seems inaccurate. I would say it "could be bad". |
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Post by unionstation82 on Mar 7, 2023 13:04:52 GMT -6
The biggest complaint about McMullet on this forum is his 10-cent brain and him falling completely apart every time an error happens behind him or something doesn't go his way. He can't control getting hurt, but he should damn sure be able to control his emotions and not act like an 8-year-old girl throwing a tantrum when he doesn't get his way. He can do better about his emotions, but he's hardly on the same scale as many other vocal players around baseball. Hell, even JV was ejected a couple years back for arguing about not getting strike calls. People get emotional. Despite any perceived emotional issues, his results are generally excellent when he's healthy. If he could prove to stay healthy, he'd be making much more than he is now. So saying his contract is bad right now seems inaccurate. I would say it "could be bad". I remember when Lance was visibly pissed off when Yuli made an error, and Altuve jawed back at Lance. When he stuck his glove out to Altuve as kind of a high five, José slapped it out of the way. I guess that’s what Bortaz is referencing. |
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Post by Saint on Mar 7, 2023 13:07:51 GMT -6
He can do better about his emotions, but he's hardly on the same scale as many other vocal players around baseball. Hell, even JV was ejected a couple years back for arguing about not getting strike calls. People get emotional. Despite any perceived emotional issues, his results are generally excellent when he's healthy. If he could prove to stay healthy, he'd be making much more than he is now. So saying his contract is bad right now seems inaccurate. I would say it "could be bad". I remember when Lance was visibly pissed off when Yuli made an error, and Altuve jawed back at Lance. When he stuck his glove out to Altuve as kind of a high five, José slapped it out of the way. I guess that’s what Bortaz is referencing. Yeah I remember, but wasn't that like 3-4 years ago? A young player made a mistake and a veteran fixed it. That's fairly routine. Are we supposed to hold that against Lance forever? |
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Post by unionstation82 on Mar 7, 2023 13:21:08 GMT -6
I remember when Lance was visibly pissed off when Yuli made an error, and Altuve jawed back at Lance. When he stuck his glove out to Altuve as kind of a high five, José slapped it out of the way. I guess that’s what Bortaz is referencing. Yeah I remember, but wasn't that like 3-4 years ago? A young player made a mistake and a veteran fixed it. That's fairly routine. Are we supposed to hold that against Lance forever? I don’t know. But he still does it on occasion. |
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Post by Saint on Mar 7, 2023 13:25:55 GMT -6
Yeah I remember, but wasn't that like 3-4 years ago? A young player made a mistake and a veteran fixed it. That's fairly routine. Are we supposed to hold that against Lance forever? I don’t know. But he still does it on occasion. I haven't seen him get frustrated with teammates since then. Frustrated with himself, sure. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Mar 7, 2023 15:33:06 GMT -6
He can do better about his emotions, but he's hardly on the same scale as many other vocal players around baseball. Hell, even JV was ejected a couple years back for arguing about not getting strike calls. People get emotional. Despite any perceived emotional issues, his results are generally excellent when he's healthy. If he could prove to stay healthy, he'd be making much more than he is now. So saying his contract is bad right now seems inaccurate. I would say it "could be bad". I remember when Lance was visibly pissed off when Yuli made an error, and Altuve jawed back at Lance. When he stuck his glove out to Altuve as kind of a high five, José slapped it out of the way. I guess that’s what Bortaz is referencing. That one, and how many others? If there's an error made behind him, you can go ahead and put 2 more runs on the opponent's board because he is 100% going to give up a bomb to the next guy up to bat after the error. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Mar 7, 2023 15:34:41 GMT -6
By the way, I don't care about his (or anyone else's) contract. I do not care how much money they are paid.
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Post by unionstation82 on Mar 7, 2023 16:02:45 GMT -6
I remember when Lance was visibly pissed off when Yuli made an error, and Altuve jawed back at Lance. When he stuck his glove out to Altuve as kind of a high five, José slapped it out of the way. I guess that’s what Bortaz is referencing. That one, and how many others? If there's an error made behind him, you can go ahead and put 2 more runs on the opponent's board because he is 100% going to give up a bomb to the next guy up to bat after the error. I remember when we both argued with Corch about McCullers. He blamed McCullers’ bad starts in the ‘20 postseason on Altuve’s errors. Granted, Altuve’s defense was bad, but the responsibility for home runs is on the pitcher. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Mar 7, 2023 16:08:09 GMT -6
Anyone worried about how injured this team is at this point? You hear mixed things about Brantley, Álvarez, and McCullers. Yordan is essentially Lance plus playing time.
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Post by Ashitaka on Mar 7, 2023 16:20:50 GMT -6
If he's down finally to the point where he would accept a minor league deal, then I would not mind bringing Yuli back.
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Post by Ashitaka on Mar 7, 2023 16:23:19 GMT -6
Anyone worried about how injured this team is at this point? You hear mixed things about Brantley, Álvarez, and McCullers. Yordan is essentially Lance plus playing time. All three are supposedly on-track for some point in April, Brantley and Alvarez possibly even for Opening Day. Not too worried at this point. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Mar 7, 2023 16:23:45 GMT -6
If he's down finally to the point where he would accept a minor league deal, then I would not mind bringing Yuli back. Who would he replace if called up? |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Mar 7, 2023 16:42:35 GMT -6
Anyone worried about how injured this team is at this point? You hear mixed things about Brantley, Álvarez, and McCullers. Yordan is essentially Lance plus playing time. You worry too much about injuries and act as if the players can somehow do something to prevent them. Well, except for that one guy. |
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Post by bearbryant on Mar 7, 2023 16:56:19 GMT -6
What other reason do you think we complain about him? I guess there’s also the mental fragility he displays when he gives up home runs and when witnessing errors by his defense, which Altuve has taken him to task for in the past. And yes, if you don’t play then it’s a bad contract. I don't think anybody is saying he's a perfect pitcher (or ever will be). I'm just saying that since getting the extension, they money he has been paid has been right on par for what he has delivered when you compare the numbers per dollars. It's been a fair contract for both sides so far. Whether or not it will continue to be, will be determined by how he continues to pitch (and stay healthy). He reminds me of Rich Harden back in the day |
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Post by unionstation82 on Mar 7, 2023 17:51:27 GMT -6
Anyone worried about how injured this team is at this point? You hear mixed things about Brantley, Álvarez, and McCullers. Yordan is essentially Lance plus playing time. You worry too much about injuries and act as if the players can somehow do something to prevent them. Well, except for that one guy. I only worry because they tend to say it’s not a big deal and then the player(s) is gone for weeks or even months at a time. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Mar 7, 2023 17:51:52 GMT -6
I don't think anybody is saying he's a perfect pitcher (or ever will be). I'm just saying that since getting the extension, they money he has been paid has been right on par for what he has delivered when you compare the numbers per dollars. It's been a fair contract for both sides so far. Whether or not it will continue to be, will be determined by how he continues to pitch (and stay healthy). He reminds me of Rich Harden back in the day Harden was a beast at times. |
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Post by Ashitaka on Mar 7, 2023 23:11:15 GMT -6
If he's down finally to the point where he would accept a minor league deal, then I would not mind bringing Yuli back. Who would he replace if called up? He would just be injury insurance. If Abreu hits the DL at some point or whatever. |
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Post by Ashitaka on Mar 7, 2023 23:14:30 GMT -6
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