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Post by blcoach8 on Jul 26, 2018 19:21:00 GMT -6
Stassi has been a solid player for us. We're just defending him from the nonsensical onslaughts this afternoon that's all .. using the same stats the Stassi-hater asked
us to use. Now he doesn't want to use stats anymore to evaluate him
Stassi's nobody's favorite Who is the Stassi hater? I don't hate Stassi.....he is a good BACKUP catcher with decent numbers. What I did object to was Saint trying to prove that Stassi is a more productive hitter than Gurriel. That dog won't hunt. Maldonado will be a help to us for the rest of the season. |
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Post by bearbryant on Jul 26, 2018 19:27:51 GMT -6
I don't hate Stassi.....he is a good BACKUP catcher with decent numbers. What I did object to was Saint trying to prove that Stassi is a more productive hitter than Gurriel. That dog won't hunt. Maldonado will be a help to us for the rest of the season.
both positions, he's absolutely correctYou and Bortaz are gonna run out of straws with all the strawmen you're building this evening |
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Post by nathangarza29 on Jul 26, 2018 19:29:05 GMT -6
Cole Hamels to the Cubs
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2018 20:05:16 GMT -6
Paging Ace of Diamonds...... Paging Ace of Diamonds.... Ace-of-Diamonds Haven't heard from you in awhile buddy. Does this Maldonado trade mean you guys are throwing in the towel? Inquiring minds want to know.  Anyone want to wage money, on whether this ping is answered...... |
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Post by m240 on Jul 26, 2018 20:20:21 GMT -6
One of the biggest arguments made for Joke earlier this year was that he had a good OPS...at the same time, he was striking out 50% of the time and playing worse baseball than any other player in the league...but his mullet-loving fanboys were constantly "bruh, OPS!!!HUH" Like WAR, OPS isn't any kind of end all. But it's a pretty a good measure of offensive production. I guess I need to know what outdated or overrated stat this board approves of to use in debates. Is it just AVG and RBI? the stat that predicts run production best is ops. It is a better predictor of overall team performance than any other measure that I know of. Now I am not a sabermetrics kind of guy but there are ways of adjusting ops for stolen bases and caught stealing that dials it in even better. So unless someone else has a better idea ops is what I will continue to use. |
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Post by olpapa on Jul 26, 2018 20:37:45 GMT -6
Just saw this on MLBTR:
“Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic reports in his latest notes column (subscription required) that some executives within the industry believe the Astros would sell low on recently demoted closer Ken Giles. Rosenthal adds that one team approached the Mariners about the possibility of a three-team trade, believing that they could get Giles and flip him to Seattle. While the M’s had interest, however, talks failed to progress. The Astros maintain that they’re not shopping Giles, however, per the report.”
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2018 20:48:33 GMT -6
Just saw this on MLBTR: “Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic reports in his latest notes column (subscription required) that some executives within the industry believe the Astros would sell low on recently demoted closer Ken Giles. Rosenthal adds that one team approached the Mariners about the possibility of a three-team trade, believing that they could get Giles and flip him to Seattle. While the M’s had interest, however, talks failed to progress. The Astros maintain that they’re not shopping Giles, however, per the report.” 3 outcomes on Giles 1. Send him to the NL. (Rarely see him) 2. Send him to ALE or ALC. (occasionally see him) 3. Send hin to a divisional opponent (see him often) I vote for option 1, just for the sake of not having to be disgusted by this nut job. |
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Post by bearbryant on Jul 26, 2018 20:49:35 GMT -6
Fresh out the gate Herrera, Doolittle, Eaton and Murphy All in play to be traded. Harper is a long shot but according to some sources it's at about 40% chance to be moved and it would be to a AL team. And according to same source the Oakland A's would be the perfect fit |
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Post by Saint on Jul 26, 2018 20:55:20 GMT -6
Ah there we go. When you disagree with the numbers...facts...just throw out the "well I know baseball and I can see true talent". Glad our GM does not do that. Numbers and our use of following metrics has helped make this team what it is. Numbers aren't everything, hustle and intangibles have their place. But ignoring proven value and failing to adapt to new and improved metrics will keep people from succeeding. many of us have been around long enough to remember when every decision wasn't made because some damn stat said it was the best thing to do. I see value in the defensive shifts employed by many teams, Houston more than most. On many occasions, the shift gets us outs we would not have if we had not used it. The shift also gives opposing hitters cheap hits at times that would have resulted in outs if the shift was not being used. You cannot go soley by any stats and predictions to make all of your decisions. I am not saying that OPS. WAR, etc. are not useful stats, but, I am saying that basing every move you make regarding a lineup on a couple of stats is not the best thing to do. I also get tired of hearing about exit velocity, launch angle, hit probability, etc. If a guy hits a home run, I could care less about its angle of elevation, projected distance, etc. I agree with the exit velocity stuff. I know hard hit balls is indicative of potential production, but there is something to be said for guys like Altuve and Segura that get production from contact and speed as well. And I would never go solely by stats, but they need to be a major major consideration. How else do you compare what players can bring to your team? |
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Post by Saint on Jul 26, 2018 20:56:13 GMT -6
It's easy to say, well Jake strikes out a lot and is only hitting .240 (or whatever), It was more like .140  I'm referring to my defense of his value for last year. He was horrible the beginning of this year at all things. No argument there. |
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Post by Saint on Jul 26, 2018 20:58:03 GMT -6
I don't hate Stassi.....he is a good BACKUP catcher with decent numbers. What I did object to was Saint trying to prove that Stassi is a more productive hitter than Gurriel. That dog won't hunt. Maldonado will be a help to us for the rest of the season. More productive for his position compared to Gurriel at his position. All things equal, a .750 OPS at catcher is good. A .750 OPS at 1B is...okay. |
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Post by Saint on Jul 26, 2018 21:00:39 GMT -6
Like WAR, OPS isn't any kind of end all. But it's a pretty a good measure of offensive production. I guess I need to know what outdated or overrated stat this board approves of to use in debates. Is it just AVG and RBI? the stat that predicts run production best is ops. It is a better predictor of overall team performance than any other measure that I know of. Now I am not a sabermetrics kind of guy but there are ways of adjusting ops for stolen bases and caught stealing that dials it in even better. So unless someone else has a better idea ops is what I will continue to use. WAR incorporates baserunning value into overall player production. OPS is just on base percentage plus slugging percentage. But a high OPS normally means at least a decent WAR unless they are awful defensively (Adam Jones, Charlie Blackmon). |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Jul 26, 2018 21:09:35 GMT -6
Aaron Judge out with a chip fracture of the wrist.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2018 21:12:29 GMT -6
Aaron Judge out with a chip fracture of the wrist. I've seen those (depending on severity) being season ending types of injuries. The wrist is about the worst thing a batter can break. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Jul 26, 2018 21:13:36 GMT -6
The Yankees traded for JA Happ today, too.
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Post by blcoach8 on Jul 26, 2018 21:48:03 GMT -6
I don't hate Stassi.....he is a good BACKUP catcher with decent numbers. What I did object to was Saint trying to prove that Stassi is a more productive hitter than Gurriel. That dog won't hunt. Maldonado will be a help to us for the rest of the season.
both positions, he's absolutely correctYou and Bortaz are gonna run out of straws with all the strawmen you're building this eveningCatching is in a real need of an offensive upgrade.... We have a guy at first base who hits around .300 and consistently hits the ball with authority and is the best hitter in baseball with RISP. Saint can post all the stats he wants to but he cannot refute that fact. |
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Post by Saint on Jul 26, 2018 21:50:21 GMT -6
We're going around in circles. Moving on.
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Post by blcoach8 on Jul 26, 2018 21:51:33 GMT -6
Just saw this on MLBTR: “Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic reports in his latest notes column (subscription required) that some executives within the industry believe the Astros would sell low on recently demoted closer Ken Giles. Rosenthal adds that one team approached the Mariners about the possibility of a three-team trade, believing that they could get Giles and flip him to Seattle. While the M’s had interest, however, talks failed to progress. The Astros maintain that they’re not shopping Giles, however, per the report.” 3 outcomes on Giles 1. Send him to the NL. (Rarely see him) 2. Send him to ALE or ALC. (occasionally see him) 3. Send hin to a divisional opponent (see him often) I vote for option 1, just for the sake of not having to be disgusted by this nut job. I don't care where he goes as long as they get rid of the idiot. I guarantee you that some team will take a chance on him especially now. Some playoff contender will take him. I think Brandon Morrow is injured so maybe the Cubs will want him. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Jul 26, 2018 21:52:46 GMT -6
Aaron Judge out with a chip fracture of the wrist. Not good for the Yankees. They don't have anyone who can come close to replacing Judge in the lineup. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Jul 26, 2018 21:59:43 GMT -6
I have a feeling that tomorrow could be the day we hear of more Luhnow moves to strengthen the team.
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Post by astrosdoug on Jul 26, 2018 22:16:37 GMT -6
Like coach said Maldonado can play defense. maldonado replaces Federowicz which is an upgrade, allows us to keep Stubbs,and provides to fill the gap until McCann is back in September.....if he does come back. My guess is that Luhnow is still after a bat and a reliever. One thing i thought of that probably won't happen.....trade with KC for Moose who comes in to play third base moving Bregman to being full-time SS until Correa comes back. It allows Yuli to stay at first base and should mean we see a lot less of Marwin. When Correa returns, move Bregman back to third, and Moose can serve as DH which is probably an upgrade on Gattis, who seems to have come back to earth after his streak. Moose has been one of the most successful hitters in the league at MMP.... |
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Post by blcoach8 on Jul 26, 2018 22:36:59 GMT -6
maldonado replaces Federowicz which is an upgrade, allows us to keep Stubbs,and provides to fill the gap until McCann is back in September.....if he does come back. My guess is that Luhnow is still after a bat and a reliever. One thing i thought of that probably won't happen.....trade with KC for Moose who comes in to play third base moving Bregman to being full-time SS until Correa comes back. It allows Yuli to stay at first base and should mean we see a lot less of Marwin. When Correa returns, move Bregman back to third, and Moose can serve as DH which is probably an upgrade on Gattis, who seems to have come back to earth after his streak. Moose has been one of the most successful hitters in the league at MMP.... The only Royal who could rival him was Hosmer. Moustakas would be a good addition for us. |
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Post by astrosdoug on Jul 26, 2018 22:41:16 GMT -6
OPS isn't a good way to judge a hitter  OPS should be included in evaluating a hitter, but, should not be the sole or most important factor. Run production, hitting with runners in scoring position, etc. are important. For someone to imply that Stassi is a better or more productive hitter than Gurriel is just plain absurd. I don't care what Stassi's OPS is......he is not a better or more productive hitter than Yuli, who leads the majors in batting average with runners in scoring position. I have noticed that Saint has yet to post Stassi's numbers in that area. A good example of Stassi's value as a hitter came last night in his final plate appearance.......he stood their like a statue and took three pitches in the middle of the zone and then walked back to the dugout. OPS was a big improvement over the traditional BA statistic, but as Coach says, it doesn't tell us everything we need to know. wRC+ is probably the best overall batting stat out there, but I'd agree one also has to look at the Clutch stat as well as situational hitting stats. I'd caution that when looking at things such as "BA with bases loaded", "BA with RISP", etc., it's much better to look at the Career splits rather than the splits for a given year. That's just because the number of PAs in a given situation can be very small, so there is a huge luck factor when looking at yearly situational batting stats. Yuli is a good everyday hitter. Of course we'd like to see him making pitchers work harder and getting more walks to boost that OBP. But he is not a weak link on the team in my opinion. Stassi can probably be forgiven for striking out to a Top 10 Reliever this year in Ottavino. Ottavino is a righty and Stassi really should only be used against lefties. That's why I'd like to see a Stassi/Stubbs duo at C next year. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Jul 26, 2018 22:46:58 GMT -6
My problem with several Astros hitters.......mainly Gurriel and Altuve is their tendency to swing at the first pitch no matter where it is. In Keuchel's start against the Angels a few days ago, the opposing pitcher retired the side on FOUR pitches when Altuve and Gurriel both got out on the first pitch and the next guy got out on the second pitch. Keuchel hardly had time to sit down before having to go back to the mound.
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Post by nathangarza29 on Jul 26, 2018 22:57:41 GMT -6
Matt Harvey should be headed to the Brewers
And
Brad Ziegler should be headed to the Indians
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Post by nathangarza29 on Jul 26, 2018 22:59:07 GMT -6
I wanna see these scenarios Lunhow has up his sleave.
I wanna see what he thinks is a upgrade and what surprise he has for Houston fans everywhere
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Post by blcoach8 on Jul 26, 2018 23:08:39 GMT -6
I wanna see these scenarios Lunhow has up his sleave. I wanna see what he thinks is a upgrade and what surprise he has for Houston fans everywhere I hope it is not a "surprise" similar to last July when he got Liriano and Clippard. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2018 23:10:13 GMT -6
I wanna see these scenarios Lunhow has up his sleave. I wanna see what he thinks is a upgrade and what surprise he has for Houston fans everywhereWell worded. Is this Luhnow?  |
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Post by nathangarza29 on Jul 26, 2018 23:19:07 GMT -6
Vetters back to Braves
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Post by m240 on Jul 27, 2018 6:56:15 GMT -6
the stat that predicts run production best is ops. It is a better predictor of overall team performance than any other measure that I know of. Now I am not a sabermetrics kind of guy but there are ways of adjusting ops for stolen bases and caught stealing that dials it in even better. So unless someone else has a better idea ops is what I will continue to use. WAR incorporates baserunning value into overall player production. OPS is just on base percentage plus slugging percentage. But a high OPS normally means at least a decent WAR unless they are awful defensively (Adam Jones, Charlie Blackmon). Long explanations are often frowned upon so in my attempt at brevity perhaps I gave a wrong impression. I am a stats guy just one who is frustrated by sabermetrics in that there really isn't one that I have discovered that predicts offensive production in let's say a big number. WAR is broken down into offense and defense but being a long time baseball fan I am a lot like Pavlov's dog in that I expect my stats to be three digits in length. That helps me to sort through the representation that the number makes. So when you take a number like OPS and you place it in a team environment, the runs produced by that team can still vary widely. However when you take base running skills and add them to a teams ops then the numbers start requiring fewer standard deviations to bracket the expected run production. Things like taking extra bases, stolen bases, scoring on sacrifices, only count half as much as getting thrown out trying to take the extra base, or stealing, or grounding into a double play takes away from your ops. But no one has formalized this stat. That makes it frustrating trying to evaluate a guy like our prospect Straw. Straw has no power to speak of but boy can he get on base. Once on base he can steal them like nobody's business and he does not get caught very often. His value to a team can not be understated just because he has very little power. For Straw though a walk is often a double. So if you redefine ops the way I described above then Straw's ops would go up to over 900 for the year. That is pretty rare air up there and given the fact that he seldom strikes out it is a more predictable outcome when he comes up. He is the perfect table setter for any offense. And yet since he does not hit the long ball he is rated lower and currently is only rated as our 17th best prospect. In my opinion he should be in the top ten. |
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