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Post by unionstation82 on Jul 12, 2018 23:58:30 GMT -6
These A’s are like quite a few opponents with winning records. They’re not fooled easily by our pitchers. Except for Bregman, most of our hitters had a bad series. Tucker did have a good game in the one we managed to win. They routinely capitalized more often than the Astros on pitches in the strike zone and laid off more close pitches out of the zone. The disciplined approach of last season has gone by the wayside. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Jul 13, 2018 8:10:32 GMT -6
Except for Bregman, most of our hitters had a bad series. Tucker did have a good game in the one we managed to win. They routinely capitalized more often than the Astros on pitches in the strike zone and laid off more close pitches out of the zone. The disciplined approach of last season has gone by the wayside. And the lack of the disciplined approach is the main reason the offense isn't close to as good as it was last year. You nailed it. Marwin looks like he did before last year. The reason the offense isn't much worse is due to the production from Bregman. Altuve's power numbers are down and Springer has been lost for about a month. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Jul 13, 2018 8:47:17 GMT -6
They routinely capitalized more often than the Astros on pitches in the strike zone and laid off more close pitches out of the zone. The disciplined approach of last season has gone by the wayside. And the lack of the disciplined approach is the main reason the offense isn't close to as good as it was last year. You nailed it. Marwin looks like he did before last year. The reason the offense isn't much worse is due to the production from Bregman. Altuve's power numbers are down and Springer has been lost for about a month. And also, I look at how they fared against the Big Boys/playoff contenders this year: NYY, Sawx, Indians, etc. They did okay against Cleveland but had the one embarrassing loss. They almost won an impressive 3 of 4 against Boston but Harris failed. The Yankees overwhelmed them to the point where a guy punched his own face. The Astros are a great team, but they have a bright one now in Bregman with a few other flickering bulbs powering this offense. The bullpen needs help too as I’ve said ad nauseum. |
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Post by olpapa on Jul 13, 2018 10:35:08 GMT -6
It seemed pretty plain to me that Devo needed to be relegated to low-leverage work until after the ASB. Scoring 4 runs today wasn't a fabulous offensive production, but more often than not it is sufficient to win. The reason it wasn't enough today was leaving the starter in too long, and then putting in a new reliever after Smith had only thrown 9 pitches and was coasting. Smith just needed to get 2 more outs and then Rondon could have gotten the final 4. Anyway, sometimes it takes some meltdowns like this to light a fire under Luhnow's butt to get the right moves made. And no matter how we slice it or dice it, the Astros don't suck ass like Peter Strzok is doing right now. The need for bullpen help is not because of Giles. It’s because of the guys generally playing Hot Potato whenever there are closing duties handed out by Hinch. They need arms for stability; overall, they’re a good unit. Concerning the “right moves,”....the moves that opened the door for Oakland were the unnecessary moves AJ made when he pulled McHugh after the 6th and pulled Smith after the 7th. AJ made the moves that have come to be the things to do...according to “the book”. Those things are: never let a relief pitcher go out for a third inning. Use one relief pitcher for the 7th inning, but replace him in the 8th and then replace that guy with yet another relief pitcher in the 9th inning.....all of this with no consideration as to how well each pitcher is throwing the ball or how few pitches each pitcher has thrown. U82 is right. Overall our bullpen is a good unit. That said, none of those guys is a machine. They are human beings and every human being, regardless of his occupation, has a bad day from time to time. Every time a pitching change is made, it increases the chances that you are going to have a guy on the mound who is having his bad day. For that reason, pitching changes should not be made unnecessarily. McHugh is a starting pitcher who is working out of the bullpen. Multiple innings are no big deal to him. When he was replaced at the start of the 7th inning he had pitched to 6 batters, struck out 2, walked 1, allowed no hits and no runs, and had thrown a total of 31 pitches. He had just retired the A’s in order in the 6th. There was absolutely no reason whatsoever...other than “the book” or “the clipboard,” if you will...to remove McHugh after the 6th inning. He could have pitched at least one more inning. That would have got us to the 8th. When Smith was removed, after pitching his one inning, he had just retired the A’s in order on 9 pitches. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever...other than “the book” or “the clipboard,” if you will...to remove Smith after he had pitched just one inning. No reason why McHugh and Smith could not have closed the game out for the ‘stros. Had AJ gone by “the book” in the World Series, the Astros would not be champions today. Roberts did go by “the book” throughout the series and his team got to watch as the Astros celebrated their victory on the Dodgers home turf. With the number of innings the starters are pitching this year and with 8 arms in the bullpen, there is no reason why guys like McHugh, Devenski, Peacock and now Perez who have been starting pitchers in the past can’t pitch more than 2 innings if they are pitching well. There is no reason why any pitcher who is pitching well, and has only thrown 9 pitches, should removed from a game after just one inning, regardless of whether or not he has pitched multiple innings in the past. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Jul 13, 2018 10:37:06 GMT -6
At least we know Hinch is not to blame for today’s game. His reliable arms are faltering. Peacock and Devenski are two of their best, and they seem lost. He violated the “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it,” rule when he pulled McHugh and again when he pulled Smith. It wasn’t necessary for Devenski or Harris to pitch today. At what point are these guys who Hinch puts out there going to do the same effective jobs they did last season? I just can’t be upset with the manager when his boys aren’t holding up their end of the bargain. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Jul 13, 2018 10:38:55 GMT -6
The only time I really get upset with Hinch is when he puts in Giles. Other than that, they’re wilting under pressure. Peacock is looking like the guy who should throw to Bregs in the Derby.
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Post by olpapa on Jul 13, 2018 11:06:45 GMT -6
He violated the “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it,” rule when he pulled McHugh and again when he pulled Smith. It wasn’t necessary for Devenski or Harris to pitch today. At what point are these guys who Hinch puts out there going to do the same effective jobs they did last season? I just can’t be upset with the manager when his boys aren’t holding up their end of the bargain. McHugh and Smith were holding up their end of the bargain when AJ sent them to the showers. |
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Post by olpapa on Jul 13, 2018 11:09:55 GMT -6
The only time I really get upset with Hinch is when he puts in Giles. Other than that, they’re wilting under pressure. Peacock is looking like the guy who should throw to Bregs in the Derby. I agree....which is good reason for not bringing him into a game unnecessarily to replace a pitcher who is pitching effectively. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Jul 13, 2018 11:13:53 GMT -6
The only time I really get upset with Hinch is when he puts in Giles. Other than that, they’re wilting under pressure. Peacock is looking like the guy who should throw to Bregs in the Derby. What has always amazed me about some managers....including Hinch....is that they remove a reliever who has thrown a minimum amount of pitches in pitching ONE effective inning to replace him with a guy who may or may not be effective that day. Devenski has not be effective recently, yet, he pulls Smith, who was very effective, to bring in Devenski who blew the game by getting ONE out while allowing the three runs that cost us the game on 4 hits. If a guy is effective, leave him in the game........Hinch also seems to think a starter has to throw around 100 pitches before being replaced no matter how ineffective he is that day. He left McCullers in too long on Wednesday and Morton in too long yesterday and we paid for it. Sometimes, Hinch needs to ignore the "book" like he did in the WS and use common sense. He also needs to stop "resting" guys who are hitting. |
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Post by olpapa on Jul 13, 2018 11:40:06 GMT -6
IMO, when it comes to handling a pitching staff...making moves when they need to be made, but not making moves when they are unnecessary..., managing the game in real time..., is Francona. Poor ol boy doesn’t have much in the bullpen to work with this year though.
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Post by blcoach8 on Jul 13, 2018 13:36:10 GMT -6
And the lack of the disciplined approach is the main reason the offense isn't close to as good as it was last year. You nailed it. Marwin looks like he did before last year. The reason the offense isn't much worse is due to the production from Bregman. Altuve's power numbers are down and Springer has been lost for about a month. And also, I look at how they fared against the Big Boys/playoff contenders this year: NYY, Sawx, Indians, etc. They did okay against Cleveland but had the one embarrassing loss. They almost won an impressive 3 of 4 against Boston but Harris failed. The Yankees overwhelmed them to the point where a guy punched his own face. The Astros are a great team, but they have a bright one now in Bregman with a few other flickering bulbs powering this offense. The bullpen needs help too as I’ve said ad nauseum. Adding the right players would put us even with NY and Boston. We can expect both to be major players in going after players before the deadline. The Yankees are ready to offer most anything for Machado. Boston and Cleveland are supposed to be wanting Britton. We need Ramos and at least ONE good, solid reliever.......Britton or Iglesius would be great. Sounds like the Padres are going to keep Brad Hand, according to the brains on mlb network. |
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marshall
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Post by marshall on Jul 13, 2018 14:44:01 GMT -6
The need for bullpen help is not because of Giles. It’s because of the guys generally playing Hot Potato whenever there are closing duties handed out by Hinch. They need arms for stability; overall, they’re a good unit. Concerning the “right moves,”....the moves that opened the door for Oakland were the unnecessary moves AJ made when he pulled McHugh after the 6th and pulled Smith after the 7th. AJ made the moves that have come to be the things to do...according to “the book”. Those things are: never let a relief pitcher go out for a third inning. Use one relief pitcher for the 7th inning, but replace him in the 8th and then replace that guy with yet another relief pitcher in the 9th inning.....all of this with no consideration as to how well each pitcher is throwing the ball or how few pitches each pitcher has thrown. U82 is right. Overall our bullpen is a good unit. That said, none of those guys is a machine. They are human beings and every human being, regardless of his occupation, has a bad day from time to time. Every time a pitching change is made, it increases the chances that you are going to have a guy on the mound who is having his bad day. For that reason, pitching changes should not be made unnecessarily. McHugh is a starting pitcher who is working out of the bullpen. Multiple innings are no big deal to him. When he was replaced at the start of the 7th inning he had pitched to 6 batters, struck out 2, walked 1, allowed no hits and no runs, and had thrown a total of 31 pitches. He had just retired the A’s in order in the 6th. There was absolutely no reason whatsoever...other than “the book” or “the clipboard,” if you will...to remove McHugh after the 6th inning. He could have pitched at least one more inning. That would have got us to the 8th. When Smith was removed, after pitching his one inning, he had just retired the A’s in order on 9 pitches. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever...other than “the book” or “the clipboard,” if you will...to remove Smith after he had pitched just one inning. No reason why McHugh and Smith could not have closed the game out for the ‘stros. Had AJ gone by “the book” in the World Series, the Astros would not be champions today. Roberts did go by “the book” throughout the series and his team got to watch as the Astros celebrated their victory on the Dodgers home turf. With the number of innings the starters are pitching this year and with 8 arms in the bullpen, there is no reason why guys like McHugh, Devenski, Peacock and now Perez who have been starting pitchers in the past can’t pitch more than 2 innings if they are pitching well. There is no reason why any pitcher who is pitching well, and has only thrown 9 pitches, should removed from a game after just one inning, regardless of whether or not he has pitched multiple innings in the past. At a minimum, he should rewrite the book and keep those pitchers with experience over multiple innings who have pitched well to remain at least once through the order. |
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Post by olpapa on Jul 13, 2018 15:03:51 GMT -6
Concerning the “right moves,”....the moves that opened the door for Oakland were the unnecessary moves AJ made when he pulled McHugh after the 6th and pulled Smith after the 7th. AJ made the moves that have come to be the things to do...according to “the book”. Those things are: never let a relief pitcher go out for a third inning. Use one relief pitcher for the 7th inning, but replace him in the 8th and then replace that guy with yet another relief pitcher in the 9th inning.....all of this with no consideration as to how well each pitcher is throwing the ball or how few pitches each pitcher has thrown. U82 is right. Overall our bullpen is a good unit. That said, none of those guys is a machine. They are human beings and every human being, regardless of his occupation, has a bad day from time to time. Every time a pitching change is made, it increases the chances that you are going to have a guy on the mound who is having his bad day. For that reason, pitching changes should not be made unnecessarily. McHugh is a starting pitcher who is working out of the bullpen. Multiple innings are no big deal to him. When he was replaced at the start of the 7th inning he had pitched to 6 batters, struck out 2, walked 1, allowed no hits and no runs, and had thrown a total of 31 pitches. He had just retired the A’s in order in the 6th. There was absolutely no reason whatsoever...other than “the book” or “the clipboard,” if you will...to remove McHugh after the 6th inning. He could have pitched at least one more inning. That would have got us to the 8th. When Smith was removed, after pitching his one inning, he had just retired the A’s in order on 9 pitches. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever...other than “the book” or “the clipboard,” if you will...to remove Smith after he had pitched just one inning. No reason why McHugh and Smith could not have closed the game out for the ‘stros. Had AJ gone by “the book” in the World Series, the Astros would not be champions today. Roberts did go by “the book” throughout the series and his team got to watch as the Astros celebrated their victory on the Dodgers home turf. With the number of innings the starters are pitching this year and with 8 arms in the bullpen, there is no reason why guys like McHugh, Devenski, Peacock and now Perez who have been starting pitchers in the past can’t pitch more than 2 innings if they are pitching well. There is no reason why any pitcher who is pitching well, and has only thrown 9 pitches, should removed from a game after just one inning, regardless of whether or not he has pitched multiple innings in the past. At a minimum, he should rewrite the book and keep those pitchers with experience over multiple innings who have pitched well to remain at least once through the order. I agree Marshall. You and I have been around long enough to remember that there was a time when it was not unheard of for the so-called “closer” to be brought on in the 7th inning and he finished the game. “Closers” being brought on in the 8th inning to finish out the game was a common practice. This practice of bringing in 3 different pitchers to get you through innings 7-9 is just an invitation to trouble like we saw last night. Off the top of my head,I can remember at least 5 games the Astros lost this season when relief pitchers who were pitching effectively were removed from the game unnecessarily....twice to the Yankees, once to Cleveland, once to the Red Sox and then again last night.There may have been others that I am not remembering. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Jul 13, 2018 15:10:59 GMT -6
At a minimum, he should rewrite the book and keep those pitchers with experience over multiple innings who have pitched well to remain at least once through the order. I agree Marshall. You and I have been around long enough to remember that there was a time when it was not unheard of for the so-called “closer” to be brought on in the 7th inning and he finished the game. “Closers” being brought on in the 8th inning to finish out the game was a common practice. This practice of bringing in 3 different pitchers to get you through innings 7-9 is just an invitation to trouble like we saw last night. Off the top of my head,I can remember at least 5 games the Astros lost this season when relief pitchers who were pitching effectively were removed from the game unnecessarily....twice to the Yankees, once to Cleveland, once to the Red Sox and then again last night.There may have been others that I am not remembering. I can't count the times Hinch has pulled a pitcher who had pitched a perfect inning with a minimum number of pitches to bring in another pitcher and had the new pitcher either lose the lead or cost us the game. The main one that comes to mind is when he brought the recently departed Squatting nut job into a game in the 9th against the Yankees with the game at 0-0. Verlander had dominated them the entire game.......Giles gives up a three-run bomb to Sanchez and we lose. Same thing happened twice in Cleveland. I cringed yesterday when he pulled McHugh and Smith because Devenski and Peacock have both been bad lately. Is something wrong with Sipp? He has been doing a good job but Hinch is ignoring him. |
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koolade2
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Post by koolade2 on Jul 13, 2018 17:40:45 GMT -6
All I have to say is Luhnow and Hinch better figure something out. As this team as it is constructed is not going to beat either Boston or NY in a Playoff series.
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Post by olpapa on Jul 13, 2018 18:00:34 GMT -6
All I have to say is Luhnow and Hinch better figure something out. As this team as it is constructed is not going to beat either Boston or NY in a Playoff series. I think they would come nearer beating NY than Boston simply because the Yankees have so many key batters who can’t hit a curve to save their life. |
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