marshall
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Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood...
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Post by marshall on Jan 12, 2019 17:21:57 GMT -6
MLBTR is reporting that the Indians are asking a return for Kluber equal to the return that the White Sox got from Boston for Chris Sale. I don’t know that Kluber is worth that kind of return. Sale was 27 years old and controllable for 3 years at a total of $38 million at the time he was traded to Boston. Kluber is 32 years old and is controllable for 3 years at a total of $52.5 million. Kluber is 5 years older and owed $14.5 million more for his 3 years of control than was Sale at the time he was traded. Boston gave up their #2, #4, #8 and #28 prospects to get Sale from the White Sox. That would be like the Astros giving up Whitley, James, Bukauskus and Jeremy Pena for Kluber. No way would I do that. I think an offer of our #3 Alvarez, #8 Bukauskus, #20 Ronnie Dawson and Reddick is a reasonable offer.. If Cleveland wants a second pitcher in the deal, substitute Brandon Bielak, our #19, for Dawson. If that isn’t enough, let the Dodgers or Padres overpay for Kluber. I hate this kind of comparison. It assumes an equivalent farm. I prefer top 100 rankings or some adjustment of farms or players for an apples to apples comparison. We have one of the best farms in the league. Where did Boston's rank at the time? Were any in the top MLB 100? If so, what was their ranking? |
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Post by m240 on Jan 12, 2019 17:24:01 GMT -6
You have to understand our dear Corch here.....any player that in a short stint in the majors shows promise or any top rated prospect in the minors are basically better than a 2 Time CYA, top #5 MLB pitcher with a great 3 team friendly contract....however, once that prospect as short spell of not producing in the majors, he becomes an instant worthless dumbass....for the time being James and Martin are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kluber. you forgot to mention the last time this CYA winner won a playoff game........great in the regular season, chokes in the playoffs. I have never mentioned Martin.......James showed tremendous promise when brought up last season and should not be included in a deal for Kluber. When that "short spell of not producing" ends up being half a season, he is not worth his paycheck. If you think Correa deserves a $4 million raise, you are not as smart as I thought. Seems as if the Red Sox had a pitcher that seemed to always choke and then this year, he did not. It seems as if Mr Price was right this year. In the Playoffs as well as the world series. Correa gets his raise because before the injury he was doing pretty good and then after the injury he went to hell in a hand basket. Now if he has another injury riddled year or if he forgets how to hit then my guess is that he will not get much of raise next year. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Jan 12, 2019 17:30:28 GMT -6
You’ve got to wonder what the plan is for the Yankees. LeMahieu isn’t the greatest hitter, but he’s a starter based on defense alone since 2B isn’t a premiere offensive position. However, they already have Gleyber Torres there, which prompts him to now shift over to SS, which is already occupied by Tulowitzki and later Gregorius. Unless Andújar the 3B gets traded, I have no idea where Machado would play. The Yankees mentioned they were going to use DJ around the infield as a utility type player, also giving good time at first. Where does also leave Bird and Voit. One thing with the surplus they have in the infield Scranton Wilkes-Barre is going to have a hell of a team in AAA. Hear that Bortaz:) LOL How many utility infielders do they need? |
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Post by m240 on Jan 12, 2019 17:40:14 GMT -6
MLBTR is reporting that the Indians are asking a return for Kluber equal to the return that the White Sox got from Boston for Chris Sale. I don’t know that Kluber is worth that kind of return. Sale was 27 years old and controllable for 3 years at a total of $38 million at the time he was traded to Boston. Kluber is 32 years old and is controllable for 3 years at a total of $52.5 million. Kluber is 5 years older and owed $14.5 million more for his 3 years of control than was Sale at the time he was traded. Boston gave up their #2, #4, #8 and #28 prospects to get Sale from the White Sox. That would be like the Astros giving up Whitley, James, Bukauskus and Jeremy Pena for Kluber. No way would I do that. I think an offer of our #3 Alvarez, #8 Bukauskus, #20 Ronnie Dawson and Reddick is a reasonable offer.. If Cleveland wants a second pitcher in the deal, substitute Brandon Bielak, our #19, for Dawson. If that isn’t enough, let the Dodgers or Padres overpay for Kluber. I hate this kind of comparison. It assumes an equivalent farm. I prefer top 100 rankings or some adjustment of farms or players for an apples to apples comparison. We have one of the best farms in the league. Where did Boston's rank at the time? Were any in the top MLB 100? If so, what was their ranking? At the time of the trade Moncada was rated as the #2 prospect in all of baseball. Koepch or whatever his name was like #73 or something and a ways from hitting the bigs. The other two guys were not rated. So a trade of Alvarez starts lower, James gives them immediate major league stuff that has played well at least a limited time in the bigs and proven major league outfielder in Reddick instead of two prospects that are going nowhere. So that is pretty close right there to being equal. If James falls off the wagon to start the year and can not find the strike zone again then we will all be shaking our heads. James is not the second coming of Bob Gibson, he is at best the second coming of Lance McCullers. A guy that on his best days gives you 5-6 good innings. But do not get me wrong, I would not trade James straight up for Fulmer, as part of a package for Grienke, Realmuto, or anyone else. But for Kluber, good bye James. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Jan 12, 2019 18:00:05 GMT -6
I hate this kind of comparison. It assumes an equivalent farm. I prefer top 100 rankings or some adjustment of farms or players for an apples to apples comparison. We have one of the best farms in the league. Where did Boston's rank at the time? Were any in the top MLB 100? If so, what was their ranking? At the time of the trade Moncada was rated as the #2 prospect in all of baseball. Koepch or whatever his name was like #73 or something and a ways from hitting the bigs. The other two guys were not rated. So a trade of Alvarez starts lower, James gives them immediate major league stuff that has played well at least a limited time in the bigs and proven major league outfielder in Reddick instead of two prospects that are going nowhere. So that is pretty close right there to being equal. If James falls off the wagon to start the year and can not find the strike zone again then we will all be shaking our heads. James is not the second coming of Bob Gibson, he is at best the second coming of Lance McCullers. A guy that on his best days gives you 5-6 good innings. But do not get me wrong, I would not trade James straight up for Fulmer, as part of a package for Grienke, Realmuto, or anyone else. But for Kluber, good bye James. In today's game, most of the top starters are only giving you six innings. There are no Gibsons, Drysdales, Marichals, Seavers, and Ryans still around. These guys are not conditioned to outings of longer than six. Guys like Verlander are the exception. We have no way of knowing if James will develop into a top starter, but, the guys I just mentioned were no guarantees either when they were young prospects. |
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marshall
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21st Century Luddite
Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood...
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Post by marshall on Jan 12, 2019 18:02:09 GMT -6
I hate this kind of comparison. It assumes an equivalent farm. I prefer top 100 rankings or some adjustment of farms or players for an apples to apples comparison. We have one of the best farms in the league. Where did Boston's rank at the time? Were any in the top MLB 100? If so, what was their ranking? At the time of the trade Moncada was rated as the #2 prospect in all of baseball. Koepch or whatever his name was like #73 or something and a ways from hitting the bigs. The other two guys were not rated. So a trade of Alvarez starts lower, James gives them immediate major league stuff that has played well at least a limited time in the bigs and proven major league outfielder in Reddick instead of two prospects that are going nowhere. So that is pretty close right there to being equal. If James falls off the wagon to start the year and can not find the strike zone again then we will all be shaking our heads. James is not the second coming of Bob Gibson, he is at best the second coming of Lance McCullers. A guy that on his best days gives you 5-6 good innings. But do not get me wrong, I would not trade James straight up for Fulmer, as part of a package for Grienke, Realmuto, or anyone else. But for Kluber, good bye James. Good info. But unless Boston had both the top and second rated prospects at the time, I think there's something strange about Moncada's overall #2 rating. |
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Post by olpapa on Jan 12, 2019 18:22:55 GMT -6
MLBTR is reporting that the Indians are asking a return for Kluber equal to the return that the White Sox got from Boston for Chris Sale. I don’t know that Kluber is worth that kind of return. Sale was 27 years old and controllable for 3 years at a total of $38 million at the time he was traded to Boston. Kluber is 32 years old and is controllable for 3 years at a total of $52.5 million. Kluber is 5 years older and owed $14.5 million more for his 3 years of control than was Sale at the time he was traded. Boston gave up their #2, #4, #8 and #28 prospects to get Sale from the White Sox. That would be like the Astros giving up Whitley, James, Bukauskus and Jeremy Pena for Kluber. No way would I do that. I think an offer of our #3 Alvarez, #8 Bukauskus, #20 Ronnie Dawson and Reddick is a reasonable offer.. If Cleveland wants a second pitcher in the deal, substitute Brandon Bielak, our #19, for Dawson. If that isn’t enough, let the Dodgers or Padres overpay for Kluber. I hate this kind of comparison. It assumes an equivalent farm. I prefer top 100 rankings or some adjustment of farms or players for an apples to apples comparison. We have one of the best farms in the league. Where did Boston's rank at the time? Were any in the top MLB 100? If so, what was their ranking? Maybe you will find this comparison more to your liking. I know that Moncada was ranked the #1 prospect in baseball by mlb.com at the time he was included in the trade for Sale and Kopech was ranked #67. Neither Basabe nor Diaz was ranked in the mlb.com top 100 at the time the trade was made, if memory serves me correctly. For comparison, Tucker currently is ranked #5 by mlb.com. Whitley is ranked #8. Alvarez is ranked #42. James is ranked #95. They are the only Astros prospects in the mlb.com top 100. Boston traded 2 of the mlb.com’s top 67 prospects plus 2 lesser prospects to Chicago for Sale. Would you trade Tucker or Whitley and Alvarez plus 2 lesser prospects in a deal to get Kluber? That is the kind of return Cleveland is seeking for Kluber. |
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Post by olpapa on Jan 12, 2019 18:31:31 GMT -6
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marshall
Veteran
21st Century Luddite
Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood...
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Post by marshall on Jan 12, 2019 18:39:15 GMT -6
I hate this kind of comparison. It assumes an equivalent farm. I prefer top 100 rankings or some adjustment of farms or players for an apples to apples comparison. We have one of the best farms in the league. Where did Boston's rank at the time? Were any in the top MLB 100? If so, what was their ranking? Maybe you will find this comparison more to your liking. I know that Moncada was ranked the #1 prospect in baseball by mlb.com at the time he was included in the trade for Sale and Kopech was ranked #67. Neither Basabe nor Diaz was ranked in the mlb.com top 100 at the time the trade was made, if memory serves me correctly. For comparison, Tucker currently is ranked #5 by mlb.com. Whitley is ranked #8. Alvarez is ranked #42. James is ranked #95. They are the only Astros prospects in the mlb.com top 100. Boston traded 2 of the mlb.com’s top 67 prospects plus 2 lesser prospects to Chicago for Sale. Would you trade Tucker or Whitley and Alvarez in a deal to get Kluber? I would not trade Whitley. But I could see one of Tucker/Alvarez included for a deal for Kluber since he has 3 years under $20M of Club Control and buyouts if he should tank. I would prefer using MLB talent 20-25 on the roster to make room for our own prospects. They aren't worth as much as prospects though. The lower level prospects or MLB talent would of course need to be higher if Alvarez is the primary prospect in stead of Tucker.
I'd still prefer to keep Tucker and enhance the lower level prospect package, but that would depend on the precise needs of the Indians.
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Post by m240 on Jan 12, 2019 19:45:23 GMT -6
So that article says that Moncada was ranked #1 at the time of the trade but was ranked #2 at the start of the offseason. Granted he was highly rated either #1 or #2 I do not think that really matters much as the difference is just someone's opinion. What Cleveland wants though really does not matter, it matters what we will give up and we know that we will not trade Tucker and Alvarez or Whitley and Alvarez for anyone so they could want wild monkey's to fly out of someone's backside but that does not mean they will get it. It seems that we can not even agree on what we would give up to get him and a package of Alvarez and James is too rich for some of us. That would be the limit of what I would give though, just those two plus Reddick. If more is needed then too bad. |
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Post by thomasj13 on Jan 12, 2019 19:51:21 GMT -6
So that article says that Moncada was ranked #1 at the time of the trade but was ranked #2 at the start of the offseason. Granted he was highly rated either #1 or #2 I do not think that really matters much as the difference is just someone's opinion. What Cleveland wants though really does not matter, it matters what we will give up and we know that we will not trade Tucker and Alvarez or Whitley and Alvarez for anyone so they could want wild monkey's to fly out of someone's backside but that does not mean they will get it. It seems that we can not even agree on what we would give up to get him and a package of Alvarez and James is too rich for some of us. That would be the limit of what I would give though, just those two plus Reddick. If more is needed then too bad. I would give up Alvarez + others to get Kluber |
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Post by blcoach8 on Jan 12, 2019 20:14:21 GMT -6
So that article says that Moncada was ranked #1 at the time of the trade but was ranked #2 at the start of the offseason. Granted he was highly rated either #1 or #2 I do not think that really matters much as the difference is just someone's opinion. What Cleveland wants though really does not matter, it matters what we will give up and we know that we will not trade Tucker and Alvarez or Whitley and Alvarez for anyone so they could want wild monkey's to fly out of someone's backside but that does not mean they will get it. It seems that we can not even agree on what we would give up to get him and a package of Alvarez and James is too rich for some of us. That would be the limit of what I would give though, just those two plus Reddick. If more is needed then too bad. I would give up Alvarez + others to get Kluber As long as one of the "others" isn't Whitley, Tucker, or James I agree. I would consider giving up James,but, as a last resort. I hate to give up a 25-year old with a 100 MPH fastball who could develop into a top of the rotation guy or lights out closer. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Jan 12, 2019 20:16:58 GMT -6
I hate this kind of comparison. It assumes an equivalent farm. I prefer top 100 rankings or some adjustment of farms or players for an apples to apples comparison. We have one of the best farms in the league. Where did Boston's rank at the time? Were any in the top MLB 100? If so, what was their ranking? If James falls off the wagon to start the year and can not find the strike zone again then we will all be shaking our heads. Lets not forget that, last year at this time, Fisher was accounted untouchable by nearly everyone on this forum. |
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Post by thomasj13 on Jan 12, 2019 20:42:40 GMT -6
If James falls off the wagon to start the year and can not find the strike zone again then we will all be shaking our heads. Lets not forget that, last year at this time, Fisher was accounted untouchable by nearly everyone on this forum. We are now searching for him. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Jan 12, 2019 21:24:40 GMT -6
If James falls off the wagon to start the year and can not find the strike zone again then we will all be shaking our heads. Lets not forget that, last year at this time, Fisher was accounted untouchable by nearly everyone on this forum. not by me. |
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Post by olpapa on Jan 12, 2019 21:35:54 GMT -6
So that article says that Moncada was ranked #1 at the time of the trade but was ranked #2 at the start of the offseason. Granted he was highly rated either #1 or #2 I do not think that really matters much as the difference is just someone's opinion. What Cleveland wants though really does not matter, it matters what we will give up and we know that we will not trade Tucker and Alvarez or Whitley and Alvarez for anyone so they could want wild monkey's to fly out of someone's backside but that does not mean they will get it. It seems that we can not even agree on what we would give up to get him and a package of Alvarez and James is too rich for some of us. That would be the limit of what I would give though, just those two plus Reddick. If more is needed then too bad. My money is on the Padres getting Kluber. Their farm system is loaded. All of their top 10 prospects sre in the top 100 prospects in baseball. They have an excess of ML level outfielders. If they really want him, they will get him. |
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Post by m240 on Jan 12, 2019 22:36:04 GMT -6
If James falls off the wagon to start the year and can not find the strike zone again then we will all be shaking our heads. Lets not forget that, last year at this time, Fisher was accounted untouchable by nearly everyone on this forum. If you gotta choose between somebody who might be able to do something and someone who has done something successfully over a period of time then the smart money goes to someone who has done something over someone who might be able to do something. |
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Post by astrosdoug on Jan 12, 2019 22:49:00 GMT -6
if the Astros can go 140-22 this season, it means the franchise win-loss record going back to 1962 will finally be above .500.
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Post by thomasj13 on Jan 12, 2019 22:57:46 GMT -6
if the Astros can go 140-22 this season, it means the franchise win-loss record going back to 1962 will finally be above .500. So you are saying they are going to lose 22 games.....and you call yourself a fan. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Jan 13, 2019 0:35:21 GMT -6
I’m with the others here. Josh James isn’t the Second Coming of Christ, and you can have only so many untouchables. If trading him can get you Kluber, you have to take that chance.
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Post by nathangarza29 on Jan 13, 2019 0:45:19 GMT -6
Theres no way we r getting Kluber.
Padres will have every offer bested
Gotta focus on stroman or fulmer or lugo
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Post by thomasj13 on Jan 13, 2019 0:58:12 GMT -6
Theres no way we r getting Kluber. Padres will have every offer bested Gotta focus on stroman or fulmer or lugo Dem Boyz |
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marshall
Veteran
21st Century Luddite
Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood...
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Post by marshall on Jan 13, 2019 3:15:32 GMT -6
if the Astros can go 140-22 this season, it means the franchise win-loss record going back to 1962 will finally be above .500. So you are saying they are going to lose 22 games.....and you call yourself a fan. Sempersmom would agree. |
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Post by astrosdoug on Jan 13, 2019 3:48:39 GMT -6
Hinch would ordinarily lead the team to 162 wins but the MLB mental healthcare provider has advised him that to do so would affect the self-esteem of opposing managers.
So he's gifting opponents 22 wins to keep their spirits up.
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Post by thomasj13 on Jan 13, 2019 8:29:44 GMT -6
Hinch would ordinarily lead the team to 162 wins but the MLB mental healthcare provider has advised him that to do so would affect the self-esteem of opposing managers. So he's gifting opponents 22 wins to keep their spirits up. Hinch is going soft on us |
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Post by m240 on Jan 13, 2019 9:00:44 GMT -6
Theres no way we r getting Kluber. Padres will have every offer bested Gotta focus on stroman or fulmer or lugo I doubt that we get Kluber as well. I did not think that we would get Verlander or Cole either. I was wrong then and perhaps you are wrong now. There is no doubt that if the Padres decide that they will get Kluber and will give what they need to get him then they will get him as they have the farm system with 10 top 100 prospects. But Kluber just does not make sense for them right now. They need to have some of those prospects start to become stars in the NL before they make a trade like this, otherwise they just go from a below 500 team to one that is close to 500. Why give up cheap talent just to add a couple of wins and few new fans or other income streams. Frankly I would be more surprised if the Padres pull the trigger on him than I would be the Astros pulling the trigger. Kluber is the type of trade Luhnow makes. |
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Post by nathangarza29 on Jan 13, 2019 9:03:32 GMT -6
Theres no way we r getting Kluber. Padres will have every offer bested Gotta focus on stroman or fulmer or lugo Dem Boyz They got further then the crappy Texans that's all the mattered to me |
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Post by nathangarza29 on Jan 13, 2019 9:05:25 GMT -6
Theres no way we r getting Kluber. Padres will have every offer bested Gotta focus on stroman or fulmer or lugo I doubt that we get Kluber as well. I did not think that we would get Verlander or Cole either. I was wrong then and perhaps you are wrong now. There is no doubt that if the Padres decide that they will get Kluber and will give what they need to get him then they will get him as they have the farm system with 10 top 100 prospects. But Kluber just does not make sense for them right now. They need to have some of those prospects start to become stars in the NL before they make a trade like this, otherwise they just go from a below 500 team to one that is close to 500. Why give up cheap talent just to add a couple of wins and few new fans or other income streams. Frankly I would be more surprised if the Padres pull the trigger on him than I would be the Astros pulling the trigger. Kluber is the type of trade Luhnow makes. The biggest reason I say this is Cleveland will not help us. Look at the last time we traded with Cleveland. Then think about the fact they play us every time we get to the end and the Playoffs. On top of that they want TOP TOPS. So Padres are that team |
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Post by blcoach8 on Jan 13, 2019 9:29:21 GMT -6
Theres no way we r getting Kluber. Padres will have every offer bested Gotta focus on stroman or fulmer or lugo sounds good to me. Either of those three will be much cheaper than Kluber. I still say the best thing to do is go get Fulmer and Castellanos. Haven't seen you give an update on Realmuto in a couple of days. |
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Post by abregmanfan on Jan 13, 2019 10:34:21 GMT -6
Theres no way we r getting Kluber. Padres will have every offer bested Gotta focus on stroman or fulmer or lugo That makes sense. |
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