talshill
Arbitration Eligible
Vini, vici, pavori.
Posts: 2,007
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Post by talshill on Jan 30, 2019 11:22:34 GMT -6
According to this 3 year old article, some have to get by with $1500 /mo. and a $25 / day per diem. Pretty tough to eat and lodge for $25/day nowadays. linkI believe the $25 is for food a day. That's plenty for a day. Sure, it won't be steak dinners every night, but it gets reasonable meals at reasonable restaurants. $1500 a month with little to no food or lodging/utility bills during the season is perfectly fine, imo. I think most of us have done fine with that or less when we were young men. And I think most young men pursing their dreams and the potential for multi-million dollar contracts (or even "just" several hundred thousand dollar salaries) are fine being paid at all during the season. The only problem I see, is that it can be tough to find good/reasonable jobs for only part of a year since you can't very well commit to anything full-time. But, it's a sacrifice/gamble that they know going into it. I'll always remember Biggio coming to speak at a youth baseball camp I participated in and telling us how important it was to finish school or training/certifications so that you had a backup plan if things didn't work out (since it doesn't for most). 25 bucks seems kinda light to me, especially for a young man who probably eats like a horse. I guess Taco Bell is happy about it though. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Jan 30, 2019 11:27:59 GMT -6
Dollar menus, y'all.
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Post by Saint on Jan 30, 2019 11:30:40 GMT -6
I believe the $25 is for food a day. That's plenty for a day. Sure, it won't be steak dinners every night, but it gets reasonable meals at reasonable restaurants. $1500 a month with little to no food or lodging/utility bills during the season is perfectly fine, imo. I think most of us have done fine with that or less when we were young men. And I think most young men pursing their dreams and the potential for multi-million dollar contracts (or even "just" several hundred thousand dollar salaries) are fine being paid at all during the season. The only problem I see, is that it can be tough to find good/reasonable jobs for only part of a year since you can't very well commit to anything full-time. But, it's a sacrifice/gamble that they know going into it. I'll always remember Biggio coming to speak at a youth baseball camp I participated in and telling us how important it was to finish school or training/certifications so that you had a backup plan if things didn't work out (since it doesn't for most). 25 bucks seems kinda light to me, especially for a young man who probably eats like a horse. I guess Taco Bell is happy about it though. $6 large pizza from Little Caesar's (I think it's only $5 for Cici's Pizza Buffets.) Unlimited Soup/Salad at places like Chili's and Olive Garden for what? $10? Golden Corral is like $12 isn't it? $4-$6 full breakfasts at Denny's/iHop In any case, obviously they're not going to get a full giant meal at top establishments three times a day, but, if they're not complete idiots, that easily gets them a a full breakfast to start the day, a couple snacks (granola bars or whatever) during the day, and a nice big dinner after a long day of playing ball. They likely even have enough for a beer or two at a bar some nights if they were smart. |
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Post by nathangarza29 on Jan 30, 2019 11:38:34 GMT -6
25 bucks seems kinda light to me, especially for a young man who probably eats like a horse. I guess Taco Bell is happy about it though. $6 large pizza from Little Caesar's (I think it's only $5 for Cici's Pizza Buffets.) Unlimited Soup/Salad at places like Chili's and Olive Garden for what? $10? Golden Corral is like $12 isn't it? $4-$6 full breakfasts at Denny's/iHop In any case, obviously they're not going to get a full giant meal at top establishments three times a day, but, if they're not complete idiots, that easily gets them a a full breakfast to start the day, a couple snacks (granola bars or whatever) during the day, and a nice big dinner after a long day of playing ball. They likely even have enough for a beer or two at a bar some nights if they were smart. Theres places you can rent for all Bill's paid for 600 month You can hit popeyes on tuesday for two for two x2 chicken Churches 3 for two on Thursday McDonalds in between. You could do the pizza route and have that spread over two days. But those guys have money. They get paid. 20k + a year. I have friends who live like kings on 12k a year. And others who are in debt out the butts who make 160k a year. It's all about reasonable rationing. If they go pop bottles and hang at the clubs and drink sure they are broke. And you also have to remember they can play Winter ball. |
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Post by astrosdoug on Jan 30, 2019 11:44:00 GMT -6
The problem is that a professional athlete can't develop optimally-performing muscles, bones, ligaments, and tendons if he's eating Little Caesar's and other GMO frankenfoods.
There's a deep science in sports nutrition and it would make sense for the organization to provide players at all levels with the proper organic fruit, veg, and meat that would help maximize their on-field performance.
The degradation of seeds, soil, and meat-raising practices over the past 40 years is largely why you don't see many starters completing games or throwing over 200 innings in a season.
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kj50tx
T-baller
Posts: 27
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Post by kj50tx on Jan 30, 2019 11:49:16 GMT -6
There is a ton of income potential for a young ballplayer. Baseball instruction and travel baseball are such a huge industry right now. Academies and parents both are doing everything they can to get these guys in their buildings. They can charge $60 per hour to sit on a bucket and do front flips to kids and give them instruction. People line up to have their kid be instructed by a big leaguer. The travel ball academy owners also hire these guys to coach multiple teams during the fall and winter. Players can make upwards of $2000/month doing that. Then, putting on camps and clinics is another way to make some quick cash for these guys.
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Post by astrosdoug on Jan 30, 2019 11:57:08 GMT -6
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Post by thomasj13 on Jan 30, 2019 11:59:37 GMT -6
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Post by Saint on Jan 30, 2019 12:23:18 GMT -6
The problem is that a professional athlete can't develop optimally-performing muscles, bones, ligaments, and tendons if he's eating Little Caesar's and other GMO frankenfoods. There's a deep science in sports nutrition and it would make sense for the organization to provide players at all levels with the proper organic fruit, veg, and meat that would help maximize their on-field performance. The degradation of seeds, soil, and meat-raising practices over the past 40 years is largely why you don't see many starters completing games or throwing over 200 innings in a season. Those are just examples of how they can get by without a lot of stress and still get plenty to eat. Obviously they can't go to Whole Foods and buy fresh fruit and vegetables every day with slabs of Kobe beef. The cost to feed hundreds of players that way would be ridiculous, especially considering only a fraction of them will go on to be serviceable major leaguers. (And the better prospects get paid better to afford better.) I'm just saying that an 18-22 year old can easily get by, food-wise on $25 a day. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Jan 30, 2019 12:54:45 GMT -6
A lot of them live with members of the community who support the team. Kind of like an exchange student. Also, they don't have to limit themselves to what the per diem pays...they get paid and can use their own money to eat on. What other employer is expected to provide prime meals to their employee?
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Post by paastrosfan on Jan 30, 2019 13:09:01 GMT -6
There is a ton of income potential for a young ballplayer. Baseball instruction and travel baseball are such a huge industry right now. Academies and parents both are doing everything they can to get these guys in their buildings. They can charge $60 per hour to sit on a bucket and do front flips to kids and give them instruction. People line up to have their kid be instructed by a big leaguer. The travel ball academy owners also hire these guys to coach multiple teams during the fall and winter. Players can make upwards of $2000/month doing that. Then, putting on camps and clinics is another way to make some quick cash for these guys. A former minor leaguer from my hometown Russ Canzler would work the winter camps as you mentioned for extra cash in the offseason. A few of the guys I played with that went on to play minor league ball relied on their parents and relatives for support. As reading the above comments meal money hasn't really increased over the years. |
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Post by Hunter McCormick on Jan 30, 2019 14:13:05 GMT -6
A lot of them live with members of the community who support the team. Kind of like an exchange student. Also, they don't have to limit themselves to what the per diem pays...they get paid and can use their own money to eat on. What other employer is expected to provide prime meals to their employee? Unless a player is on the 40 and getting a roster bonus, the pay is fairly meager and the per-diem isn't gonna make them rich. Yes, they can survive, but it's not like they can buy much other than necessities. But the 'host family' concept is widespread and does add to their standard of living. I remember reading about this a few years ago. Took me a while to find a link, but here it is.. www.freep.com/story/sports/columnists/jeff-seidel/2015/04/11/jeff-seidel-sharon-haner/25654749/ |
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Post by Hunter McCormick on Jan 30, 2019 14:14:37 GMT -6
When I first read you remark I was all like ... WHAT? Then I saw the video. lol |
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Post by nathangarza29 on Jan 30, 2019 21:44:52 GMT -6
Tals hill suggest to sign Craig Krimbal to pair with Osuna.
If we cant get a SP.
Thoughts
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marshall
Veteran
21st Century Luddite
Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood...
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Post by marshall on Jan 30, 2019 22:14:48 GMT -6
Tals hill suggest to sign Craig Krimbal to pair with Osuna. If we cant get a SP. Thoughts Good player, but projected to sign for 2-4 times what I would value him for 60-70 innings. We have three top notch relief pitchers in Osuna, Pressley and Rondon who would make less combined than Kimbrel. Kimbrel is projected at an avg. of $17.5M/yr. I'd like him at about $9M which is about $150,000/IP.
Now I loved the Lidge/Dotel/Wagner BP days, but we weren't getting ready to try to extend Aces and position players with expensive long term contracts at the time. I think the resources need to go elsewhere.
It would; however, free up Peacock to take up SP inning with the bottom of the rotation likely being on significant pitch and innings counts. Keuchel would take up more innings (about three times) as a SP, so I would expect him to be the preferred signing for a similar contract.
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Post by blcoach8 on Jan 30, 2019 22:46:54 GMT -6
Tals hill suggest to sign Craig Krimbal to pair with Osuna. If we cant get a SP. Thoughts depends on the cost. |
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Post by astrosdoug on Jan 31, 2019 3:25:54 GMT -6
Tals hill suggest to sign Craig Krimbal to pair with Osuna. If we cant get a SP. Thoughts A lot of it comes down to how many save situations the Astros think they are going to have. If the back end of the rotation is giving up so many runs that there isn't a save possibility, having Kimbrel around won't really help. However I do like the idea of having Kimbrel and Osuna together in the postseason assuming they haven't pitched their arms off in the RS. |
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Post by astrosdoug on Jan 31, 2019 4:07:18 GMT -6
One way to think about Kimbrel's value is to look at how many blown saves the Astros have had in recent years, and then estimate how many fewer blown saves the team would have with Kimbrel in the pen.
2016 - 20 BS (BS leader: Gregerson)
2017 - 22 BS (leader: Devo)
2018 - 21 BS (leader: Rondon)
That's pretty consistent. We can estimate there would be 21 blown saves this year with no Kimbrel. We also know that Kimbrel has averaged 4.3 blown saves/year over his career and that he had 5 BS last year.
Neither Osuna nor Giles (I know, I know...) had a blown save last year and obviously Giles is out of the picture this season. Therefore Kimbrel's value would mainly come from replacing the save opportunities that last year went to Giles, Rondon, Peacock, Devo, Pressly, and Harris.
At the end of the day I think the Astros still have to give a few save opportunities to pitchers other than Osuna/Kimbrel so estimating 5 BS from them, 5 BS from Kimbrel, and 5 BS from Osuna, that brings the 2019 Astros down to 15 blown saves on the year.
Not every blown save results in a loss, though, so I'm guessing that with Kimbrel on board the Astros win 3 more games than they otherwise would.
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Post by thomasj13 on Jan 31, 2019 4:13:10 GMT -6
One way to think about Kimbrel's value is to look at how many blown saves the Astros have had in recent years, and then estimate how many fewer blown saves the team would have with Kimbrel in the pen. 2016 - 20 BS (BS leader: Gregerson) 2017 - 22 BS (leader: Devo) 2018 - 21 BS (leader: Rondon) That's pretty consistent. We can estimate there would be 21 blown saves this year with no Kimbrel. We also know that Kimbrel has averaged 4.3 blown saves/year over his career and that he had 5 BS last year. Neither Osuna nor Giles (I know, I know...) had a blown save last year and obviously Giles is out of the picture this season. Therefore Kimbrel's value would mainly come from replacing the save opportunities that last year went to Giles, Rondon, Peacock, Devo, Pressly, and Harris. At the end of the day I think the Astros still have to give a few save opportunities to pitchers other than Osuna/Kimbrel so estimating 5 BS from them, 5 BS from Kimbrel, and 5 BS from Osuna, that brings the 2019 Astros down to 15 blown saves on the year. Not every blown save results in a loss, though, so I'm guessing that with Kimbrel on board the Astros win 3 more games than they otherwise would. Pressly >>>> Osuna |
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Post by astrosdoug on Jan 31, 2019 4:21:03 GMT -6
Pressly was excellent overall last year, but didn't pitch well in save situations. I think it would be a mistake to try moving him into that role.
Osuna may well get better over the next few years, he's so young. Already what he's done is phenomenal, and the Astros have him for 3 more years.
if Kimbrel's value added is that he helps the team win 3 more RS games and increases the team's chances of victory in the postseason by a few percent, is that worth $18M/year? Maybe, but it sounds like a bit of a stretch.
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Post by olpapa on Jan 31, 2019 7:07:02 GMT -6
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Post by m240 on Jan 31, 2019 7:49:56 GMT -6
that article sounds like something I would write. Talk about being an optimistic homer. Hell everyone knows that McHugh will at most pitch 175 innings to a 3.35 era, and that Peacock only has 145 innings in him with a 3.50 era.  |
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marshall
Veteran
21st Century Luddite
Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood...
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Post by marshall on Jan 31, 2019 8:17:46 GMT -6
I'm all for finding out which of the youngsters will step up. But I'm thinking that they will have to be managed from the start to have gas in the tank at the end of the season. I would rather they develop innings/per game depth rather than more starts in determining how to use their inning limits. As long as Verlander, Cole and McHugh get their regular starts, I could see three or four pitchers rotating the innings to spread about 100 innings each rather evenly across the season. By October, you would select the best as the fourth starter for the playoffs and the deserving could assume bullpen duties.
This would also have to be done if they rotate up and down to the minors and that will be affected by the decision on whether to change back to a 15 game minimum DL.
Assuming no additions it could be something like...
Verlander Cole
McHugh James Valdez Verlander
Cole
McHugh
Perez Peacock
...as a non traditional rotation.
then, later in the year you might add McHugh to the non traditional rotation alternating starts with Whitley.
This keeps the young arms at about 100 innings, McHugh at about 150 innings and Verlander/Cole at about 200 innings.
And we still have Armentaros, Martin and maybe even Bukauskas available to come in when the available injuries and/or performance issues occur.
But this also requires managing the minor league innings pitched as well.
We just have too many good to great prospects to cause any of them to burn out from overuse early in the season. They all need to increase their work load by what the Astros perceive as optimal to their development. They may have to use ingenuity to do so.
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Post by m240 on Jan 31, 2019 8:32:43 GMT -6
I agree and have been advocating that since the winter meetings. We need to piggy back them start/long relief and bring them up and send them down until we have figured out which ones are ready to go and which ones still need a little time to mature.
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Post by blcoach8 on Jan 31, 2019 8:44:21 GMT -6
One way to think about Kimbrel's value is to look at how many blown saves the Astros have had in recent years, and then estimate how many fewer blown saves the team would have with Kimbrel in the pen. 2016 - 20 BS (BS leader: Gregerson) 2017 - 22 BS (leader: Devo) 2018 - 21 BS (leader: Rondon) That's pretty consistent. We can estimate there would be 21 blown saves this year with no Kimbrel. We also know that Kimbrel has averaged 4.3 blown saves/year over his career and that he had 5 BS last year. Neither Osuna nor Giles (I know, I know...) had a blown save last year and obviously Giles is out of the picture this season. Therefore Kimbrel's value would mainly come from replacing the save opportunities that last year went to Giles, Rondon, Peacock, Devo, Pressly, and Harris. At the end of the day I think the Astros still have to give a few save opportunities to pitchers other than Osuna/Kimbrel so estimating 5 BS from them, 5 BS from Kimbrel, and 5 BS from Osuna, that brings the 2019 Astros down to 15 blown saves on the year. Not every blown save results in a loss, though, so I'm guessing that with Kimbrel on board the Astros win 3 more games than they otherwise would. Pressly >>>> Osuna anybody >>>> Giles |
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Post by texanborn51 on Jan 31, 2019 9:06:00 GMT -6
Hey there everyone it's been awhile like years since I posted in old MLB astros forum. Today I just found out there is no message board. I found this and just registered I remember some names here. I had many posts but mostly read the users messages which I always appreciated and learned from too. Well introducing myself again I believe this was my old user name if not then it might have been pico either way i was member for a long time. I found it thru reddit and some of the old members were there and referred this site. Thanks for tyring to get it going again. I remember Pico, I think. Welcome to the Refugee Camp. Thanks Bortaz. Yes I believe it was Pico. Go Astros 2019! |
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Post by olpapa on Jan 31, 2019 9:08:04 GMT -6
Looking at the number of innings some of our young guys pitched last year. These numbers represent total number innings pitched in minors, Arizona Fall League, Winter League and major league combined:
Whitley 52.1
Valdez 158
Bukauskus 83.1
Armenteros 141
Bostick 130
Hartman 134.2
McCurry 68
Pinales 66.2
James 137.1
Perez 85
Martin 122
Bielak 117
Deetz 44
Emanuel 83.2
Hernandez 83.1
Sneed 127
Considering that teams usually try to limit a young guys increase in IP from one year to the next to 30 innings, you can see that some of these guys would have to pitch out of the bullpen or in a piggyback starter role in order to help the Astros much this season.
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Post by Saint on Jan 31, 2019 9:19:50 GMT -6
Tals hill suggest to sign Craig Krimbal to pair with Osuna. If we cant get a SP. Thoughts Signing a closer to a multi-year deal (which is what it would take) before signing a starter to a multi-year deal, makes absolutely no sense. |
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Post by astrosdoug on Jan 31, 2019 9:25:23 GMT -6
James should be able to make 25 MLB starts this season.
Armenteros and Valdez could probably make 25 starts too but it may be a good idea if some of those were at AAA.
In general I'm still seeing ~150 innings the Astros need to hand to some new member (trade/FA) of the pitching staff.
There was speculation a couple weeks ago that Buchholz was about to sign but then silence after that. If he's still available, he would be good for 100 of those innings.
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Post by astrosdoug on Jan 31, 2019 9:28:38 GMT -6
oddly enough, the AL team that converted the largest percentage of its save opportunities in 2018 was... the Rangers.
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