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Post by Saint on Mar 22, 2019 8:47:44 GMT -6
Provided he stays healthy. So you wouldn't extend any young pitchers? How about old ones? I'm not against extending young pitchers, but I just think I'd be willing to go to arbitration with them a little longer before offering extensions. They have three more years of control of him after this year so there wasn't a rush, imo. I'd want to see another year or two of success and health. The 180 innings he threw last year were by far the most he has ever thrown. Correction: He did throw 173 innings combined in 2017. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Mar 22, 2019 8:50:32 GMT -6
What about young position players?
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Post by Saint on Mar 22, 2019 8:52:35 GMT -6
More willing because of less health concerns and they play every day. An MVP-caliber position player is worth more than a CY-caliber pitcher if I'm keeping a core together.
Ex: I'd take Bregman over Snell.
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Post by unionstation82 on Mar 22, 2019 8:56:07 GMT -6
What about young position players? Everyday > Every 5th day |
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Post by unionstation82 on Mar 22, 2019 8:57:42 GMT -6
So you wouldn't extend any young pitchers? How about old ones? I'm not against extending young pitchers, but I just think I'd be willing to go to arbitration with them a little longer before offering extensions. They have three more years of control of him after this year so there wasn't a rush, imo. I'd want to see another year or two of success and health. The 180 innings he threw last year were by far the most he has ever thrown. Correction: He did throw 173 innings combined in 2017. It’s distressing that a SP can win a CYA with less than 200 innings pitched. Is that how much an “ace” pitches now? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2019 8:58:54 GMT -6
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Post by unionstation82 on Mar 22, 2019 8:59:23 GMT -6
I just don't have much faith in the durability of young pitchers these days. Yeah but 5 years at 50 million is a steal even if he is young. If that kid can accept 5 for $50 million, then Keuchel can go to hell. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2019 9:02:10 GMT -6
Yeah but 5 years at 50 million is a steal even if he is young. If that kid can accept 5 for $50 million, then Keuchel can go to hell. T minus 6 days until Kuechel can join the umeployment line. Bet that beard's sweating right now. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Mar 22, 2019 9:08:08 GMT -6
If that kid can accept 5 for $50 million, then Keuchel can go to hell. T minus 6 days until Kuechel can join the umeployment line. Bet that beard's sweating right now. One is more of a truer ace while the other throws slow garbage out of the zone and prays for weak contact. Like I said, I only want Keuchel here as a fallback for Verlander and Cole. If they get extended, he is of no use to us, especially if Whitley is as advertised and with LMJ back next season. |
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Post by Saint on Mar 22, 2019 9:30:19 GMT -6
I'm not against extending young pitchers, but I just think I'd be willing to go to arbitration with them a little longer before offering extensions. They have three more years of control of him after this year so there wasn't a rush, imo. I'd want to see another year or two of success and health. The 180 innings he threw last year were by far the most he has ever thrown. Correction: He did throw 173 innings combined in 2017. It’s distressing that a SP can win a CYA with less than 200 innings pitched. Is that how much an “ace” pitches now? It's one thing if it was 180 innings and he was far and away ridiculously the best pitcher in the league. But if there are other players that arguably as good and threw more innings, I don't agree with it. And I think deepness in games should be a factor. If they only made 24-27 starts and threw 180 innings, that means they were pretty damn good but missed a few starts. Snell made 31 starts and didn't even average 6 innings per start. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Mar 22, 2019 9:32:54 GMT -6
It’s distressing that a SP can win a CYA with less than 200 innings pitched. Is that how much an “ace” pitches now? It's one thing if it was 180 innings and he was far and away ridiculously the best pitcher in the league. But if there are other players that arguably as good and threw more innings, I don't agree with it. And I think deepness in games should be a factor. If they only made 24-27 starts and threw 180 innings, that means they were pretty damn good but missed a few starts. Snell made 31 starts and didn't even average 6 innings per start. I’m kind of mad for Verlander now. His run support was inexplicably average considering the roster, and getting 290 K’s is far from easy. |
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Post by Saint on Mar 22, 2019 9:37:29 GMT -6
It's one thing if it was 180 innings and he was far and away ridiculously the best pitcher in the league. But if there are other players that arguably as good and threw more innings, I don't agree with it. And I think deepness in games should be a factor. If they only made 24-27 starts and threw 180 innings, that means they were pretty damn good but missed a few starts. Snell made 31 starts and didn't even average 6 innings per start. I’m kind of mad for Verlander now. His run support was inexplicably average considering the roster, and getting 290 K’s is far from easy. That 6 ER 2 IP start against Seattle in August is what killed him. Without that start he he has an ERA in the 2.30ish range with 212 IP. That would have given him the CY. |
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marshall
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Post by marshall on Mar 22, 2019 10:27:08 GMT -6
When I think of Verlander, I recall the situation when Ryan left the Astros for Texas. He wanted a big contract going into his age 42 year and the Astros balked. He had 2 more no-hitters in him.
While Nolan may have been one of a kind, perhaps Verlander can pitch as effectively as Ryan. I wonder if they could do a series of club options with player vesting rights based on Cy votes?
There ought to be a way to protect both the player and the club.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2019 10:37:01 GMT -6
When I think of Verlander, I recall the situation when Ryan left the Astros for Texas. He wanted a big contract going into his age 42 year and the Astros balked. He had 2 more no-hitters in him. While Nolan may have been one of a kind, perhaps Verlander can pitch as effectively as Ryan. I wonder if they could do a series of club options with player vesting rights based on Cy votes? There ought to be a way to protect both the player and the club. At the end of his career, he will still have more years with Detroit than Houston, but how cool would it be for him to go into the HOF as an Astro. |
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Post by Hunter McCormick on Mar 22, 2019 10:48:56 GMT -6
At the end of his career, he will still have more years with Detroit than Houston, but how cool would it be for him to go into the HOF as an Astro. Not cool at all. Respectfully, Invader from the North |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Mar 22, 2019 10:54:52 GMT -6
At the end of his career, he will still have more years with Detroit than Houston, but how cool would it be for him to go into the HOF as an Astro. Not cool at all. Respectfully, Invader from the North  |
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Post by paastrosfan on Mar 22, 2019 10:57:09 GMT -6
The biggest takeaway from the Snell signing is the money the Rays are shelling out not only for him, but on their roster with one of the lowest draws in MLB Baseball.
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marshall
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Post by marshall on Mar 22, 2019 11:04:02 GMT -6
At the end of his career, he will still have more years with Detroit than Houston, but how cool would it be for him to go into the HOF as an Astro. Not cool at all. Respectfully, Invader from the North I thought I heard they were going to stop putting the team name and logos on HOF memorabilia because so few player now stay with one or even two teams anymore. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Mar 22, 2019 11:16:22 GMT -6
Looks like Sale is going to get a 5 year, 150mm extention today.
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Post by blcoach8 on Mar 22, 2019 11:41:47 GMT -6
Looks like Sale is going to get a 5 year, 150mm extention today. If so, the Red Sox have gone nuts........no way is Sale worth $30 million per year. |
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Post by thomasj13 on Mar 22, 2019 11:49:43 GMT -6
Looks like Sale is going to get a 5 year, 150mm extention today. If so, the Red Sox have gone nuts........no way is Sale worth $30 million per year. Kershaw type of money....if Cole has a repeat 2018 year, he will command about the same next year.... Would you give Cole 5 years/$150M? and Verlander 3 years/$90M? |
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Post by blcoach8 on Mar 22, 2019 12:03:03 GMT -6
If so, the Red Sox have gone nuts........no way is Sale worth $30 million per year. Kershaw type of money....if Cole has a repeat 2018 year, he will command about the same next year.... Would you give Cole 5 years/$150M? and Verlander 3 years/$90M? probably |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2019 12:06:27 GMT -6
Kershaw type of money....if Cole has a repeat 2018 year, he will command about the same next year.... Would you give Cole 5 years/$150M? and Verlander 3 years/$90M? probably So Verlander and Cole are worth $30M annually, and Sale isn't? I guess we all are Homers to a certain degree. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Mar 22, 2019 12:20:09 GMT -6
So Verlander and Cole are worth $30M annually, and Sale isn't? I guess we all are Homers to a certain degree. yeah |
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Post by Saint on Mar 22, 2019 13:17:18 GMT -6
I think Sale is easily worth that contract. He's a top-3 pitcher in baseball who would only be 34 years old when the contract is over. He's been a deserving all-star the last 7 years and has never started less than 26 games since becoming a full-time starter. Frankly, I would think he could get more.
His average season as a starter:
14-8 198 IP 30 Starts 240 K 10.9 K/9 2.91 ERA (143 ERA+) 1.024 WHIP
He currently has the all-time record for K/9 and K/BB. That's impressive.
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Post by Saint on Mar 22, 2019 13:20:56 GMT -6
I think the Astros should offer Verlander a 3-year $75-85 million extension right now, and expect to lose Cole.
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Post by Saint on Mar 22, 2019 13:26:21 GMT -6
I've seen a couple articles now mention that it would be "an upset" if we managed to sign either to an extension. Why would it be an upset?
We've shown we'll spend the money. We're a legit top-5 team in all of baseball. We have one of the best young position cores in baseball. We have a top farm system. Texas is more tax-friendly.
A player that wants to win AND make money should want to come here. If they only want money then sure, they might find more money elsewhere, but to say it would be "an upset"? Come on....we're not Baltimore.
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Mar 22, 2019 13:56:11 GMT -6
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Post by blcoach8 on Mar 22, 2019 13:59:35 GMT -6
I think the Astros should offer Verlander a 3-year $75-85 million extension right now, and expect to lose Cole. don't "expect" to lose Cole.Work to keep them both |
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Post by Saint on Mar 22, 2019 14:01:13 GMT -6
Two years for over $60 million? Seems like a lot but I think we need to do it we want to remain where we are. If you think about it though, that would only be approximately $10 million more a year than we're already paying him.
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