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Post by astrosdoug on Apr 25, 2019 8:54:34 GMT -6
At this point, I'd say we need another reliable shutdown reliever at least. If James isn't right we need some starting pitch depth too. Greinke is still somebody we should consider, imo. Agreed, the last thing we need is a worn down Pressly or Osuna. Despite the diminished velocity, Greinke can still pitch. I wouldn’t mind it, but it would probably mean farewell to Cole. it's one reason I'd be high on Givens. He will go out and throw a good 80 innings a season, and the O's have only put 10 innings on his arm so far this year. Even if Givens were worn out by the postseason and left off the playoff roster, if the benefit of his labor is that Pressly and Osuna are in top shape for October, it will have been worth it. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2019 10:36:36 GMT -6
I had hoped either JB or Whitley would have set the minors on fire so much that at least one of them would have gotten a call up at this point
Hasn't happened, and my biggest concern now for the team as the season progresses is SP. Hope Luhnow can put a package together by trade deadline to give us that extra oomph we'll need in the playoffs.
3 of 5 of our starters have over a 4 era. Hope this is an early season anomoly. I am afraid it is not though.
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Post by astrosdoug on Apr 25, 2019 10:42:39 GMT -6
Stammen, Givens, and MadBum wearing Astros jerseys on August 1.
Make it happen, Luhnow.
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Post by astrosdoug on Apr 25, 2019 10:46:19 GMT -6
Stammen is another very durable reliever who will throw 80 innings per season, and quality innings at that.
He and Givens together would take a tremendous amount of pressure off the Astros' bullpen aces as well as the rookies trying to sprout up from the farm.
With those 3 acquisitions, I really don't see an AL team that could compare with the Astros.
The Dodgers in the NL would be the main competitor over there, with the Cubs, DBacks, Cards, and Gnats in the conversation too.
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Post by astrosdoug on Apr 25, 2019 10:51:34 GMT -6
If Luhnow went out and got that trio, Peacock could go back to the pen where he's best, and then you also wouldn't have to worry if the wheels just completely fell off for Devo, Harris, Framber, or Guduan.
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Post by Hunter McCormick on Apr 25, 2019 14:11:08 GMT -6
If Luhnow went out and got that trio, Peacock could go back to the pen where he's best, and then you also wouldn't have to worry if the wheels just completely fell off for Devo, Harris, Framber, or Guduan. If Luhnow went out and got that trio, it would mean he's completely lost his mind with a 'win-now regardless of the cost' mentality and the future of the Astros would be considerably less bright. Players who are performing at a high level with low salaries come at a substantial cost in trade. That cost being highly ranked prospects. Be careful what you wish for. |
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Post by astrosdoug on Apr 25, 2019 14:22:35 GMT -6
If Luhnow went out and got that trio, Peacock could go back to the pen where he's best, and then you also wouldn't have to worry if the wheels just completely fell off for Devo, Harris, Framber, or Guduan. If Luhnow went out and got that trio, it would mean he's completely lost his mind with a 'win-now regardless of the cost' mentality and the future of the Astros would be considerably less bright. Players who are performing at a high level with low salaries come at a substantial cost in trade. That cost being highly ranked prospects. Be careful what you wish for. It wouldn't mean he lost his mind if the price is right. You don't know what the prospect cost would be and considering how much time is left on their contracts, it is probably a whole lot less than you expect. |
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Post by Hunter McCormick on Apr 25, 2019 17:35:25 GMT -6
If Luhnow went out and got that trio, it would mean he's completely lost his mind with a 'win-now regardless of the cost' mentality and the future of the Astros would be considerably less bright. Players who are performing at a high level with low salaries come at a substantial cost in trade. That cost being highly ranked prospects. Be careful what you wish for. It wouldn't mean he lost his mind if the price is right. You don't know what the prospect cost would be and considering how much time is left on their contracts, it is probably a whole lot less than you expect. Do I know exactly how much? Absolutely not. But common sense tells us that teams aren't going to give away premium players without some benefit on the return. Two of the players you mentioned are strictly rentals. One is a perennial all star starting pitcher who's being paid a paltry $12 million this year. Saving half of that is a mere drop in the bucket. So San Fransisco will be DEMANDING at least one top-100 prospect in return if Madison is healthy and pitching to expectations. Offer less and I quite sure they'll tell Luhnow to pound sand. San Dog will save pennies if they trade Stammen. He's only making $2.25 million for the entire year. And he's currently rockin' the house. Every contender in baseball will have him on their radar at the deadline. There's always a huge market for relievers and that drives the (prospect) price up, especially when the buying team won't have to add more than a tiny bit to their payroll. The third player you mentioned won't be a free agent until after the 2021 season. With two and a half years of team control, he won't come cheap unless he's stinking up the mound at the deadline, and then ... why would you want him? Netting one of these guys seems somewhat reasonable. Thinking you'll get all three without gutting the farm is delusional. |
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talshill
Arbitration Eligible
Vini, vici, pavori.
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Post by talshill on Apr 26, 2019 7:20:59 GMT -6
I had hoped either JB or Whitley would have set the minors on fire so much that at least one of them would have gotten a call up at this point Hasn't happened, and my biggest concern now for the team as the season progresses is SP. Hope Luhnow can put a package together by trade deadline to give us that extra oomph we'll need in the playoffs. 3 of 5 of our starters have over a 4 era. Hope this is an early season anomoly. I am afraid it is not though. I read an article somewhere that some of our SP woes are due to bad luck vs. bad pitching. Anomalies like the Rangers series can seriously inflate a small-sample-size ERA, and some of their hits were just plain luck. It happens. Even if Whitley was setting the world on fire he wasn't going to be on the team before June-something. Same with JB. Give it until around the first week of June for things to normalize. Miley never was anything more than an inexpensive space-filler until Whitley was ready anyway. McHugh has looked great except for one terrible start. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Apr 26, 2019 9:24:56 GMT -6
I had hoped either JB or Whitley would have set the minors on fire so much that at least one of them would have gotten a call up at this point Hasn't happened, and my biggest concern now for the team as the season progresses is SP. Hope Luhnow can put a package together by trade deadline to give us that extra oomph we'll need in the playoffs. 3 of 5 of our starters have over a 4 era. Hope this is an early season anomoly. I am afraid it is not though. I read an article somewhere that some of our SP woes are due to bad luck vs. bad pitching. Anomalies like the Rangers series can seriously inflate a small-sample-size ERA, and some of their hits were just plain luck. It happens. Even if Whitley was setting the world on fire he wasn't going to be on the team before June-something. Same with JB. Give it until around the first week of June for things to normalize. Miley never was anything more than an inexpensive space-filler until Whitley was ready anyway. McHugh has looked great except for one terrible start. Get out of here with your logic, reason, and clear thinking. We don't need your kind here. |
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Post by Saint on Apr 26, 2019 9:43:52 GMT -6
I read an article somewhere that some of our SP woes are due to bad luck vs. bad pitching. Anomalies like the Rangers series can seriously inflate a small-sample-size ERA, and some of their hits were just plain luck. It happens. Even if Whitley was setting the world on fire he wasn't going to be on the team before June-something. Same with JB. Give it until around the first week of June for things to normalize. Miley never was anything more than an inexpensive space-filler until Whitley was ready anyway. McHugh has looked great except for one terrible start. Get out of here with your logic, reason, and clear thinking. We don't need your kind here. I seem to recall mentioning Keuchel's bad luck last year and you didn't think it was logic then. Maybe that was Sherwin and Corch...I can't keep up with all the people that were down on Keuchel.  |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Apr 26, 2019 9:53:53 GMT -6
Get out of here with your logic, reason, and clear thinking. We don't need your kind here. I seem to recall mentioning Keuchel's bad luck last year and you didn't think it was logic then. Maybe that was Sherwin and Corch...I can't keep up with all the people that were down on Keuchel. I was never a great fan of Dallas, but I don't remember complaining about him much. I save my wrath for the truly worthless, such as Joke Marisnick. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Apr 26, 2019 11:24:25 GMT -6
I seem to recall mentioning Keuchel's bad luck last year and you didn't think it was logic then. Maybe that was Sherwin and Corch...I can't keep up with all the people that were down on Keuchel. I was never a great fan of Dallas, but I don't remember complaining about him much. I save my wrath for the truly worthless, such as Joke Marisnick. You do a great job at showing your ignorance regarding Jake's worth to the team. More inept and worthless are Stassi, White, and Kemp.........all 3 are here because they are out of options, which is a bad reason to hang on to them |
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Post by Hunter McCormick on Apr 26, 2019 11:40:44 GMT -6
I was never a great fan of Dallas, but I don't remember complaining about him much. I save my wrath for the truly worthless, such as Joke Marisnick. You do a great job at showing your ignorance regarding Jake's worth to the team. More inept and worthless are Stassi, White, and Kemp.........all 3 are here because they are out of options, which is a bad reason to hang on to themNot always. Sometimes dumping a player who's out of options is the right thing to do. Other times ... not-so-much. I'll just leave this here: |
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Post by Saint on Apr 26, 2019 11:46:13 GMT -6
I seem to recall mentioning Keuchel's bad luck last year and you didn't think it was logic then. Maybe that was Sherwin and Corch...I can't keep up with all the people that were down on Keuchel. I was never a great fan of Dallas, but I don't remember complaining about him much. I save my wrath for the truly worthless, such as Joke Marisnick. Marisnick or Kemp are just saving Straw's spot for a few more weeks. |
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Post by Saint on Apr 26, 2019 11:50:01 GMT -6
You do a great job at showing your ignorance regarding Jake's worth to the team. More inept and worthless are Stassi, White, and Kemp.........all 3 are here because they are out of options, which is a bad reason to hang on to themNot always. Sometimes dumping a player who's out of options is the right thing to do. Other times ... not-so-much. I'll just leave this here: Foolish Northerner. Don't use your logic on Corch!!!!! |
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Post by Hunter McCormick on Apr 26, 2019 12:42:14 GMT -6
I'm not just some run of the mill Northerner. I am teh Invader from the North! |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Apr 26, 2019 13:37:31 GMT -6
I was never a great fan of Dallas, but I don't remember complaining about him much. I save my wrath for the truly worthless, such as Joke Marisnick. You do a great job at showing your ignorance regarding Jake's worth to the team. More inept and worthless are Stassi, White, and Kemp.........all 3 are here because they are out of options, which is a bad reason to hang on to them And you do a great job of carrying the jockstrap of the absolute worst player on the team. Do you have your phone set up to beep and vibrate everytime a post that is critical of Joke is made on the forum? I also find it funny how you always compare your "best defensive player in the history of baseball" to three low talent filler-in-ers, rather than to real baseball players. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Apr 26, 2019 13:40:08 GMT -6
Get out of here with your logic, reason, and clear thinking. We don't need your kind here. I seem to recall mentioning Keuchel's bad luck last year and you didn't think it was logic then. Maybe that was Sherwin and Corch...I can't keep up with all the people that were down on Keuchel. Got a lot of bad luck finding a team that wants him. |
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Post by Saint on Apr 26, 2019 13:42:57 GMT -6
I seem to recall mentioning Keuchel's bad luck last year and you didn't think it was logic then. Maybe that was Sherwin and Corch...I can't keep up with all the people that were down on Keuchel. Got a lot of bad luck finding a team that wants him. That has nothing to do with the value and success he had as a pitcher for us. |
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Post by Saint on Apr 26, 2019 13:44:27 GMT -6
You do a great job at showing your ignorance regarding Jake's worth to the team. More inept and worthless are Stassi, White, and Kemp.........all 3 are here because they are out of options, which is a bad reason to hang on to them And you do a great job of carrying the jockstrap of the absolute worst player on the team. Do you have your phone set up to beep and vibrate everytime a post that is critical of Joke is made on the forum? I also find it funny how you always compare your "best defensive player in the history of baseball" to three low talent filler-in-ers, rather than to real baseball players. I would only counter that Kemp has less value to us than anybody else. Currently at least. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Apr 26, 2019 13:48:05 GMT -6
Got a lot of bad luck finding a team that wants him. That has nothing to do with the value and success he had as a pitcher for us. I didn’t have a problem with Keuchel. I just didn’t care for the bad luck talk. When you throw as slowly as he does and don’t get the corner calls you desperately need, hitters can adjust and drive the ball the other way and beat the precious shifts. These hitters aren’t helpless morons who can’t figure him out. The bad luck talk gives him a little too much credit and not enough to the opposing offense. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Apr 26, 2019 13:52:05 GMT -6
And you do a great job of carrying the jockstrap of the absolute worst player on the team. Do you have your phone set up to beep and vibrate everytime a post that is critical of Joke is made on the forum? I also find it funny how you always compare your "best defensive player in the history of baseball" to three low talent filler-in-ers, rather than to real baseball players. I would only counter that Kemp has less value to us than anybody else. Currently at least. Kemp is just here because Straw/Tucker etc. aren't ready. No one has put him forth as some sort of savior, all star, best player in the history of America. And he doesn't play enough to really have any impact, unlike Luscious Locks, who is all too often put into the position to feck up any initiative the team may be building up. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Apr 26, 2019 13:56:03 GMT -6
I was never a great fan of Dallas, but I don't remember complaining about him much. I save my wrath for the truly worthless, such as Joke Marisnick. Marisnick or Kemp are just saving Straw's spot for a few more weeks. Replace Kemp with Straw |
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Post by Saint on Apr 26, 2019 14:02:19 GMT -6
That has nothing to do with the value and success he had as a pitcher for us. I didn’t have a problem with Keuchel. I just didn’t care for the bad luck talk. When you throw as slowly as he does and don’t get the corner calls you desperately need, hitters can adjust and drive the ball the other way and beat the precious shifts. These hitters aren’t helpless morons who can’t figure him out. The bad luck talk gives him a little too much credit and not enough to the opposing offense. Nobody considers beating shifts with hard contact as bad luck. Dribblers and dying pop-ups in no-man's land would be bad luck. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Apr 26, 2019 14:02:40 GMT -6
You do a great job at showing your ignorance regarding Jake's worth to the team. More inept and worthless are Stassi, White, and Kemp.........all 3 are here because they are out of options, which is a bad reason to hang on to them And you do a great job of carrying the jockstrap of the absolute worst player on the team. Do you have your phone set up to beep and vibrate everytime a post that is critical of Joke is made on the forum? I also find it funny how you always compare your "best defensive player in the history of baseball" to three low talent filler-in-ers, rather than to real baseball players. Apparently, those who are intelligent enough to keep Jake on the team disagree with you.  All teams have "filler-in-ers" called reserves. We have three who are much less valuable than Jake. |
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Post by astrosdoug on Apr 26, 2019 14:03:37 GMT -6
It wouldn't mean he lost his mind if the price is right. You don't know what the prospect cost would be and considering how much time is left on their contracts, it is probably a whole lot less than you expect. Do I know exactly how much? Absolutely not. But common sense tells us that teams aren't going to give away premium players without some benefit on the return. Two of the players you mentioned are strictly rentals. One is a perennial all star starting pitcher who's being paid a paltry $12 million this year. Saving half of that is a mere drop in the bucket. So San Fransisco will be DEMANDING at least one top-100 prospect in return if Madison is healthy and pitching to expectations. Offer less and I quite sure they'll tell Luhnow to pound sand. San Dog will save pennies if they trade Stammen. He's only making $2.25 million for the entire year. And he's currently rockin' the house. Every contender in baseball will have him on their radar at the deadline. There's always a huge market for relievers and that drives the (prospect) price up, especially when the buying team won't have to add more than a tiny bit to their payroll. The third player you mentioned won't be a free agent until after the 2021 season. With two and a half years of team control, he won't come cheap unless he's stinking up the mound at the deadline, and then ... why would you want him? Netting one of these guys seems somewhat reasonable. Thinking you'll get all three without gutting the farm is delusional.The purpose of this thread is not to predict what Jeff Luhnow will actually do by the trade deadline, i.e. predict what fans will 'actually get'. The purpose of this thread is to discuss plausible trades that a reasonable GM might entertain based on information that is available to the general public. Why? Because it's fun, and it's a good way to learn more about what is happening in baseball outside the Astros organization. Call people delusional all you want, but it doesn't help foster intelligent or friendly discussion, which is what this thread is about. All 3 of the trade targets I mentioned are plausible based on the history of recent MLB trades that have been freely consummated by real MLB GM's. To consider them as possible, hypothetical trades for Houston is therefore not delusional, regardless of whether it may tickle you to think so. Think of Stammen as a flashier version of Brad Ziegler at last year's trade deadline. Ziegler got in return Tommy Eveld, a pretty non-descript C-grade prospect from Arizona. Luhnow could offer Brandon Bailey (who's better than Eveld) in return for Stammen that would be good for both sides. If competition for Stammen drives the cost higher than Bailey, Luhnow can move on, but it's plausible to think that SD would prefer several years of Bailey to a few more months of Stammen. Think of Givens in a similar light as Keone Kela at last year's deadline. At that time, Kela had 1.5 arb years left, whereas Givens has 2.5. Yet, Kela was younger and pitching at a more elite level than Givens, so the returns for both players could be pretty close. Kela ended up fetching Taylor Hearn from the Pirates, a C+/B- prospect who could be compared with Cristian Javier (A+ Fayetteville pitcher) and Brett Adcock (AA Corpus Christi pitcher) in the Astros system. In that trade negotiation, other players Luhnow might reaonably offer could be Tyler Ivey, Freudis Nova, Abraham Toro, and Bryan Abreu. Elias knows that the Astros prospects I just mentioned stand a good chance of helping Baltimore when they next reach playoff contention, whereas for Givens to help Baltimore win their division, the O's would have to extend Givens and buy out some of his FA years. Givens will be 32 in his first FA season, so it's hard to see Elias betting too heavily on a reliever of that age. MadBum is obviously in a different category of player than Givens or Stammen. Trading for him would sting, but we are talking about a rental who would move the needle (and I'm estimating here) a few percentage points on winning it all in 2019. The lines I see coming out of Vegas give the Astros about a 17% chance at this point of winning the WS. So when it comes to acquiring MadBum, you have to consider how much higher that percentage goes and at what cost. My guess is that adding MadBum to the postseason rotation increases the WS odds to around 22%. If/when the Astros win the ALDS, it would go a good bit higher. In order to get those extra percentage points, it probably doesn't make sense to trade away the Astros Top 3 of Whitley/Tucker/Alvarez, but Luhnow could reasonably offer Josh James, Corbin Martin, Derek Fisher, Myles Straw, Nick Tanielu, and Freudis Nova in a MadBum deal. Not with the idea of sending over all 6 of those players, but let's say SF's pick of one of the pitchers and one of the position players. In the end, Luhnow probably does something better for the team than anything I can currently imagine. He is well-known for standing pat when the asking price is too high. But each of the three trade targets I've mentioned here are at least in the realm of possibility. |
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Post by Saint on Apr 26, 2019 14:03:44 GMT -6
Marisnick or Kemp are just saving Straw's spot for a few more weeks. Replace Kemp with Straw Unless Kemp starts hitting the way he did last year since he has a little more potential defensive versatility than Marisnick. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Apr 26, 2019 14:04:17 GMT -6
I would only counter that Kemp has less value to us than anybody else. Currently at least. Kemp is just here because Straw/Tucker etc. aren't ready. No one has put him forth as some sort of savior, all star, best player in the history of America. And he doesn't play enough to really have any impact, unlike Luscious Locks, who is all too often put into the position to feck up any initiative the team may be building up. I still think Jake either crapped in your Cheerios or turned you down for an autograph. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Apr 26, 2019 14:06:19 GMT -6
Unless Kemp starts hitting the way he did last year since he has a little more potential defensive versatility than Marisnick. Kemp is a second baseman yet Hinch rarely trusted him there when Altuve was injured last year |
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All teams have "filler-in-ers" called reserves. We have three who are much less valuable than Jake.