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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2019 9:53:07 GMT -6
Because it is an individual-based award; not a team-based award. Trout, at the moment, has been the best player in the league...meaning he is the most valuable by default for any team. And I don't care about Trout either way. He's not an Astro. But the guy is the best player in the AL at the moment. I'd rather it be Bregman or Springer, etc. but it isn't. Bregman has a chance to catch him though. I repeat.......he has not been valuable to his team. Name ONE thing they have accomplished due to his presence. Bregman will probably be in a World Series while Trout sits home......as usual.......and watches. It is obvious that our definitions of "valuable' are different. To me, an MVP is a player whose team would not be where it is without him and he has played a major role in what his team accomplishes. The Angels would be in the same place without Trout as they are with him. Okay... with a straight face tell me that Steve Carlton didn't deserve the 1972 Cy Young Award.... And then, re-think your position. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2019 9:53:21 GMT -6
Because it is an individual-based award; not a team-based award. Trout, at the moment, has been the best player in the league...meaning he is the most valuable by default for any team. And I don't care about Trout either way. He's not an Astro. But the guy is the best player in the AL at the moment. I'd rather it be Bregman or Springer, etc. but it isn't. Bregman has a chance to catch him though. I repeat.......he has not been valuable to his team. Name ONE thing they have accomplished due to his presence. Bregman will probably be in a World Series while Trout sits home......as usual.......and watches. It is obvious that our definitions of "valuable' are different. To me, an MVP is a player whose team would not be where it is without him and he has played a major role in what his team accomplishes. The Angels would be in the same place without Trout as they are with him. Okay... with a straight face tell me that Steve Carlton didn't deserve the 1972 Cy Young Award.... And then, re-think your position. |
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Post by sempersmom on Sept 18, 2019 9:53:25 GMT -6
From a Yahoo article supporting Trout's case (he's not wrong, but I think he underestimates what can happen in 15% of a season):"MVP candidates are dropping like flies. Just a week after the Brewers lost NL frontrunner Christian Yelich for the season due to a fractured kneecap, the Angels announced that Mike Trout, resident god figure of the AL, will be sidelined for what’s left of 2019 with a foot injury. Trout, who hasn’t played since Sept. 7, will undergo surgery to remove a Morton’s neuroma, a very medical textbook-sounding issue that was causing him enough pain to result in a season-ending procedure. The game’s best player should be fine for next year, but this campaign will sadly come to an early close. Unlike Yelich, Trout’s injury will have no impact on his team: While Milwaukee is still scrapping for one of the NL’s wild-card spots, Los Angeles long ago vanished from the AL race and, at 67–82, is assured of a fourth straight losing season. His absence will still be felt, but given that the Angels had already shut down Shohei Ohtani (knee) and Justin Upton (knee) earlier this week, the only immediate result is to make a weak lineup that much worse. Instead, the context that matters for Trout’s injury is individual, both in terms of the excellent season he was having and in an AL MVP race that may tighten with him gone. Last month, I ranked Trout’s eight full seasons, both because that kind of celebration of dominance is fun and because I wanted to see where his superlative 2019 might fit. I placed it second, behind last year, because I wanted to see how it played out fully. “If his current pace continues, then 2019 has a strong case to become No. 1 with a bullet,” I wrote. (I also noted that Trout could roll out of bed and break his foot to cut his year short, so, uh, sorry Mike.) With his season now officially over, Trout’s 2019 still looks plenty gaudy. He set a career high in homers with 45 and slugging percentage at .645—both of which are first in the AL—and leads the majors in walks (110), on-base percentage (.438) and OPS+ (184). His 8.3 bWAR is tops in the AL (and tied with Cody Bellinger for best in baseball), and by fWAR, he’s No. 1 in the majors at 8.6, comfortably ahead of Yelich, Alex Bregman and Bellinger. This year marks the sixth of Trout’s career with 8.0 or more bWAR; only nine other players in history have done that more times, and they’re all the elite of the elite of the elite (as is his company at six). The shame is that, as with 2018 and ‘17, Trout won’t get a chance to add to those impressive stats. With just 134 games, this marks the third straight year he’ll fail to crack the 140 mark—a potentially worrisome sign, though his abbreviated ‘17 campaign (114 games) is largely due to a torn thumb ligament suffered sliding into a base, which is as fluky an injury as you can find. This current malady shouldn’t be an issue going forward, but Trout’s durability is something to watch, particularly as he gets closer to 30. Still, the record Trout leaves behind for this season is as good as it gets, even if some of his accomplishments will fall as others pass him. His week-long absence had already cost him the majors’ overall home run crown, currently a battle between Pete Alonso and Eugenio Suarez, and he’ll almost certainly lose the AL title to Jorge Soler, who’s hit 44. Bregman will overtake him in walks, and Rangers starting pitcher Mike Minor has an outside chance of beating him in bWAR in the AL (he’s at 7.7, albeit with only two or three starts left.) But Trout should hold on to his advantage in OBP, slugging percentage, OPS+ and wRC+ (179, with Yelich at 173 and Bregman at 164), which should help give him an edge when it comes time to cast MVP votes in November. Bregman is his best competition, and Trout has him beat in those four categories above, as well as home runs, stolen bases, Win Probability Added, Baserunning Runs, and all three flavors of WAR (bWAR, fWAR, and Baseball Prospectus’ WARP). That alphabet soup may not mean much for a segment of the voting base, but making the case for Bregman as the MVP, given Trout’s numerous statistical advantages, rests entirely on the fact that the Astros are a better team than the Angels. There’s no doubting that, but that’s also not Trout’s fault, unless he was the one who told Billy Eppler to give $28.5 million in the offseason to Matt Harvey, Trevor Cahill and Cody Allen. Trout’s career has been one long sad example of how hard it is for a superstar to lift a franchise by himself, and 2019 is no exception. So while Trout’s departure will likely hurt his MVP chances with some voters, it’s unlikely to be a deciding factor (and said voters probably weren’t going to choose him anyway). He still played nearly 85% of a full season, and 85% of Trout is far better than 100% of everyone. It’s a bummer of a way for his year to come to an end, but hopefully it doesn’t take away from what should be the third MVP award of his career—a sweeter note to finish 2019 on than this unfortunate injury." For those that don't want to read something that long:Trout has better rate stats and they're so good it shouldn't make a difference. It's not his fault that his team is bad. Bregman has the best chance, but he's too far off to catch him. I know I'm biased toward Bregman, but I don't buy this guy's take. He obviously has his own bias toward Trout. There's more to being the MVP than just stats. |
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Post by Saint on Sept 18, 2019 9:55:18 GMT -6
From a Yahoo article supporting Trout's case (he's not wrong, but I think he underestimates what can happen in 15% of a season):For those that don't want to read something that long:Trout has better rate stats and they're so good it shouldn't make a difference. It's not his fault that his team is bad. Bregman has the best chance, but he's too far off to catch him. I know I'm biased toward Bregman, but I don't buy this guy's take. He obviously has his own bias toward Trout. There's more to being the MVP than just stats. I think he has good reasons for why he supports Trout. I just think that isn't a done deal though. Bregman has a chance to catch him if he has another few games like last night. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Sept 18, 2019 9:57:58 GMT -6
So, I am wrong because I disagree with you and some others? HAHAHA. I assure you I am right on more subjects than you. you call a gold glove caliber outfielder the worst player in baseball....enough said on your baseball knowledge. No, you're wrong because your opinions are not supported by evidence that is plainly clear to everyone else in the United States of America. I suspect that you're purposely contrarian just because you've got some sort of fetish for arguing and playing Devil's Advocate. You can't possibly know as little about baseball as you appear to. So, I think it's all you just pulling our leg. I admit to playing devil's advocate at times, but, not in this case. And I assure you that I know as much baseball as anyone here and more than some. I don't claim to be a genius. I do have my own definition of what constitutes an MVP. Yes, I know it is an individual award and individual stats are involved. My point being is Bregman's stats mean a lot to his team so he is valuable. Trout's stats have not helped his team win anything so Bregman would get my vote as MVP. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2019 9:59:32 GMT -6
I know I'm biased toward Bregman, but I don't buy this guy's take. He obviously has his own bias toward Trout. There's more to being the MVP than just stats. I've been screaming conspiracy that a Major Award Trifecta is not in the cards for the team. Keep watching for articles that will try to bias the Writer's voting. |
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Post by sempersmom on Sept 18, 2019 9:59:43 GMT -6
I know I'm biased toward Bregman, but I don't buy this guy's take. He obviously has his own bias toward Trout. There's more to being the MVP than just stats. I think he has good reasons for why he supports Trout. I just think that isn't a done deal though. Bregman has a chance to catch him if he has another few games like last night. The season is not over and Bregman's not that far off. This guys article made it seem like Trout was so far ahead. I know Trout is awesome and I would have loved to have seen him wearing an Astros uniform, but the truth of the matter is Bregman still has a chance. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Sept 18, 2019 10:38:58 GMT -6
I don't think I've ever encountered anyone who has been so consistently wrong about such a wide array of subjects. I mean, if the two were completely equal it might be a factor, but, right now at least, they aren't quite equal. The word “valuable” leaves it all up to interpretation and beyond the scope of statistics. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2019 10:43:29 GMT -6
I think he has good reasons for why he supports Trout. I just think that isn't a done deal though. Bregman has a chance to catch him if he has another few games like last night. I know Trout is awesome and I would have loved to have seen him wearing an Astros uniform With all these injuries, you know there would have been a hoochie koochie factor.......  |
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Post by unionstation82 on Sept 18, 2019 10:49:03 GMT -6
It isn’t fair but it’s up to the media. How else did Pudge win over Pedro or Mo Vaughn win over Albert Belle? Maybe by that logic, Bregman has a chance. I mean it’s better than those winners.
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Post by paastrosfan on Sept 18, 2019 10:52:29 GMT -6
So, I am wrong because I disagree with you and some others? HAHAHA. I assure you I am right on more subjects than you. you call a gold glove caliber outfielder the worst player in baseball....enough said on your baseball knowledge. No, you're wrong because your opinions are not supported by evidence that is plainly clear to everyone else in the United States of America. I suspect that you're purposely contrarian just because you've got some sort of fetish for arguing and playing Devil's Advocate. You can't possibly know as little about baseball as you appear to. So, I think it's all you just pulling our leg. Man you mean for the last two years this dude has been playing the whole board!!!!!!! I am just shocked!!!!! |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2019 10:56:50 GMT -6
So, I am wrong because I disagree with you and some others? HAHAHA. I assure you I am right on more subjects than you. you call a gold glove caliber outfielder the worst player in baseball....enough said on your baseball knowledge. No, you're wrong because your opinions are not supported by evidence that is plainly clear to everyone else in the United States of America. I suspect that you're purposely contrarian just because you've got some sort of fetish for arguing and playing Devil's Advocate. You can't possibly know as little about baseball as you appear to. So, I think it's all you just pulling our leg. Every once in a while, Coach does say something jaw dropping that the rest of us are thinking, but won't say. I will hand him that. |
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Post by Saint on Sept 18, 2019 11:04:27 GMT -6
I think he has good reasons for why he supports Trout. I just think that isn't a done deal though. Bregman has a chance to catch him if he has another few games like last night. The season is not over and Bregman's not that far off. This guys article made it seem like Trout was so far ahead. I know Trout is awesome and I would have loved to have seen him wearing an Astros uniform, but the truth of the matter is Bregman still has a chance. I agree. |
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Post by Saint on Sept 18, 2019 11:05:38 GMT -6
I mean, if the two were completely equal it might be a factor, but, right now at least, they aren't quite equal. The word “valuable” leaves it all up to interpretation and beyond the scope of statistics. I think there is a little more to it than just statistics, but statistics has to be the major component of it. Otherwise it's too biased. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Sept 18, 2019 11:06:24 GMT -6
From a Yahoo article supporting Trout's case (he's not wrong, but I think he underestimates what can happen in 15% of a season):"MVP candidates are dropping like flies. Just a week after the Brewers lost NL frontrunner Christian Yelich for the season due to a fractured kneecap, the Angels announced that Mike Trout, resident god figure of the AL, will be sidelined for what’s left of 2019 with a foot injury. Trout, who hasn’t played since Sept. 7, will undergo surgery to remove a Morton’s neuroma, a very medical textbook-sounding issue that was causing him enough pain to result in a season-ending procedure. The game’s best player should be fine for next year, but this campaign will sadly come to an early close. Unlike Yelich, Trout’s injury will have no impact on his team: While Milwaukee is still scrapping for one of the NL’s wild-card spots, Los Angeles long ago vanished from the AL race and, at 67–82, is assured of a fourth straight losing season. His absence will still be felt, but given that the Angels had already shut down Shohei Ohtani (knee) and Justin Upton (knee) earlier this week, the only immediate result is to make a weak lineup that much worse. Instead, the context that matters for Trout’s injury is individual, both in terms of the excellent season he was having and in an AL MVP race that may tighten with him gone. Last month, I ranked Trout’s eight full seasons, both because that kind of celebration of dominance is fun and because I wanted to see where his superlative 2019 might fit. I placed it second, behind last year, because I wanted to see how it played out fully. “If his current pace continues, then 2019 has a strong case to become No. 1 with a bullet,” I wrote. (I also noted that Trout could roll out of bed and break his foot to cut his year short, so, uh, sorry Mike.) With his season now officially over, Trout’s 2019 still looks plenty gaudy. He set a career high in homers with 45 and slugging percentage at .645—both of which are first in the AL—and leads the majors in walks (110), on-base percentage (.438) and OPS+ (184). His 8.3 bWAR is tops in the AL (and tied with Cody Bellinger for best in baseball), and by fWAR, he’s No. 1 in the majors at 8.6, comfortably ahead of Yelich, Alex Bregman and Bellinger. This year marks the sixth of Trout’s career with 8.0 or more bWAR; only nine other players in history have done that more times, and they’re all the elite of the elite of the elite (as is his company at six). The shame is that, as with 2018 and ‘17, Trout won’t get a chance to add to those impressive stats. With just 134 games, this marks the third straight year he’ll fail to crack the 140 mark—a potentially worrisome sign, though his abbreviated ‘17 campaign (114 games) is largely due to a torn thumb ligament suffered sliding into a base, which is as fluky an injury as you can find. This current malady shouldn’t be an issue going forward, but Trout’s durability is something to watch, particularly as he gets closer to 30. Still, the record Trout leaves behind for this season is as good as it gets, even if some of his accomplishments will fall as others pass him. His week-long absence had already cost him the majors’ overall home run crown, currently a battle between Pete Alonso and Eugenio Suarez, and he’ll almost certainly lose the AL title to Jorge Soler, who’s hit 44. Bregman will overtake him in walks, and Rangers starting pitcher Mike Minor has an outside chance of beating him in bWAR in the AL (he’s at 7.7, albeit with only two or three starts left.) But Trout should hold on to his advantage in OBP, slugging percentage, OPS+ and wRC+ (179, with Yelich at 173 and Bregman at 164), which should help give him an edge when it comes time to cast MVP votes in November. Bregman is his best competition, and Trout has him beat in those four categories above, as well as home runs, stolen bases, Win Probability Added, Baserunning Runs, and all three flavors of WAR (bWAR, fWAR, and Baseball Prospectus’ WARP). That alphabet soup may not mean much for a segment of the voting base, but making the case for Bregman as the MVP, given Trout’s numerous statistical advantages, rests entirely on the fact that the Astros are a better team than the Angels. There’s no doubting that, but that’s also not Trout’s fault, unless he was the one who told Billy Eppler to give $28.5 million in the offseason to Matt Harvey, Trevor Cahill and Cody Allen. Trout’s career has been one long sad example of how hard it is for a superstar to lift a franchise by himself, and 2019 is no exception. So while Trout’s departure will likely hurt his MVP chances with some voters, it’s unlikely to be a deciding factor (and said voters probably weren’t going to choose him anyway). He still played nearly 85% of a full season, and 85% of Trout is far better than 100% of everyone. It’s a bummer of a way for his year to come to an end, but hopefully it doesn’t take away from what should be the third MVP award of his career—a sweeter note to finish 2019 on than this unfortunate injury." For those that don't want to read something that long:Trout has better rate stats and they're so good it shouldn't make a difference. It's not his fault that his team is bad. Bregman has the best chance, but he's too far off to catch him. I know I'm biased toward Bregman, but I don't buy this guy's take. He obviously has his own bias toward Trout. There's more to being the MVP than just stats. I think you are understanding why I say Bregman is the MVP,. Trout has put up fantastic numbers that mean absolutely nothing to how the Angels finish. They would be where they are with or without Trout. On the other hand, Bregman's stats are similar and better in a few areas and his production has meant a lot in how the Astros will finish. His numbers could have meant the difference in a division title or being in contention for a wild card spot and can still mean the difference in the Astros having bome field advantage throughout te post season. I am in no way belittling what Trout has accompished on a personal level,. but, they are not as "valuable" to the Angels as what Bregman has done is to the Astros. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Sept 18, 2019 11:16:20 GMT -6
No, you're wrong because your opinions are not supported by evidence that is plainly clear to everyone else in the United States of America. I suspect that you're purposely contrarian just because you've got some sort of fetish for arguing and playing Devil's Advocate. You can't possibly know as little about baseball as you appear to. So, I think it's all you just pulling our leg. Man you mean for the last two years this dude has been playing the whole board!!!!!!! I am just shocked!!!!! And, here you are again.....back from another self-imposed biatus because somebody hurt your widdle feewins..what a shock...just in time to try to pile on and score some points. As usual, you have no clue what playing devil's advocyate is. I have never tucked my tail and ran because I thought some people on the board don't like me..that would be you. I have never tried to win a popularity contest.....you do that. I post what I think and could care less if anyone agrees or not . You try to paint yourself as a baseball guru and cry amd leave when you can't stand the heat. I had told myself I would never respond to your bullshit again, but,m in typical gutless fashion, you jump in to try and score more points, Stay under your rock, you don't fool anyone. You were and still are a damn fraud. |
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Post by Saint on Sept 18, 2019 11:25:00 GMT -6
Biatus?
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Post by batman007 on Sept 18, 2019 12:06:31 GMT -6
Somebody tell coach that it takes 9 players to play baseball, and that one person alone, no matter how valuable, can’t win a division by himself.
With all his baseball acumen’s, I figured he would have known this already.
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Post by unionstation82 on Sept 18, 2019 12:11:00 GMT -6
The word “valuable” leaves it all up to interpretation and beyond the scope of statistics. I think there is a little more to it than just statistics, but statistics has to be the major component of it. Otherwise it's too biased. Always was biased. Sucks but it is what it is. |
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Post by thomasj13 on Sept 18, 2019 12:32:51 GMT -6
I know I'm biased toward Bregman, but I don't buy this guy's take. He obviously has his own bias toward Trout. There's more to being the MVP than just stats. I think you are understanding why I say Bregman is the MVP,. Trout has put up fantastic numbers that mean absolutely nothing to how the Angels finish. They would be where they are with or without Trout. On the other hand, Bregman's stats are similar and better in a few areas and his production has meant a lot in how the Astros will finish. His numbers could have meant the difference in a division title or being in contention for a wild card spot and can still mean the difference in the Astros having bome field advantage throughout te post season. I am in no way belittling what Trout has accompished on a personal level,. but, they are not as "valuable" to the Angels as what Bregman has done is to the Astros. If Bregman and Trout swapped teams, do you think Bregman's his production would have a difference in W/L of the Angels more than Trout's has for them? |
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Post by Saint on Sept 18, 2019 13:06:37 GMT -6
I think there is a little more to it than just statistics, but statistics has to be the major component of it. Otherwise it's too biased. Always was biased. Sucks but it is what it is. But it has steadily gotten better. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Sept 18, 2019 14:13:57 GMT -6
strike over......HIATUS.....although I may need to invent new words for that asshole. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Sept 18, 2019 14:16:04 GMT -6
Somebody tell coach that it takes 9 players to play baseball, and that one person alone, no matter how valuable, can’t win a division by himself. With all his baseball acumen’s, I figured he would have known this already. Noted.......but the fact that Trout is the best player on a horse shit team should not make him the MVP. |
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Post by Saint on Sept 18, 2019 14:17:02 GMT -6
Somebody tell coach that it takes 9 players to play baseball, and that one person alone, no matter how valuable, can’t win a division by himself. With all his baseball acumen’s, I figured he would have known this already. Noted.......but the fact that Trout is the best player on a horse shit team should not make him the MVP. What about being the best player in the league? |
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Post by blcoach8 on Sept 18, 2019 14:20:20 GMT -6
I think you are understanding why I say Bregman is the MVP,. Trout has put up fantastic numbers that mean absolutely nothing to how the Angels finish. They would be where they are with or without Trout. On the other hand, Bregman's stats are similar and better in a few areas and his production has meant a lot in how the Astros will finish. His numbers could have meant the difference in a division title or being in contention for a wild card spot and can still mean the difference in the Astros having bome field advantage throughout te post season. I am in no way belittling what Trout has accompished on a personal level,. but, they are not as "valuable" to the Angels as what Bregman has done is to the Astros. If Bregman and Trout swapped teams, do you think Bregman's his production would have a difference in W/L of the Angels more than Trout's has for them? There is no way of knowing. Trout would be valuable in our lineup..Bregman could replace Trout on the Angels,,. and if the rest of their roster remained the same they would still suck. Point is a most VALUABLE player makes a difference in the number of games won by his team and where they finisn in the standings....The Angels suck with or without Trout. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Sept 18, 2019 14:22:41 GMT -6
Coach, if Barry Bonds hit 73 home runs in a season for the Expos instead of the Giants, he’d still win the MVP.
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Post by blcoach8 on Sept 18, 2019 14:24:51 GMT -6
Noted.......but the fact that Trout is the best player on a horse shit team should not make him the MVP. What about being the best player in the league? You can be the best player without being the most valuable player. Trout is valuable only to himself as his team's finish is not effected by what he does. If Trout had hit 70 home runs and driven in over 150 runs, the Angels would still not have won anything. To me, a most valuable player has an overall effect on his teams accomplishments.....Trouts numbers had no effect on the Angels finish. Bregman's numbers helped us win the division and we could win another WS. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Sept 18, 2019 14:26:16 GMT -6
Coach, if Barry Bonds hit 73 home runs in a season for the Expos instead of the Giants, he’d still win the MVP. We don't know. I think Bonds was juiced and some of his numbers were not legitimate. On top of being juiced, he was an arrogant asshole. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Sept 18, 2019 14:34:43 GMT -6
Coach, if Barry Bonds hit 73 home runs in a season for the Expos instead of the Giants, he’d still win the MVP. We don't know. I think Bonds was juiced and some of his numbers were not legitimate. On top of being juiced, he was an arrogant asshole. It’s not the Boy Scouts MVP, it’s the MLB MVP. |
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Post by Saint on Sept 18, 2019 14:37:49 GMT -6
What about being the best player in the league? You can be the best player without being the most valuable player. Trout is valuable only to himself as his team's finish is not effected by what he does. If Trout had hit 70 home runs and driven in over 150 runs, the Angels would still not have won anything. To me, a most valuable player has an overall effect on his teams accomplishments.....Trouts numbers had no effect on the Angels finish. Bregman's numbers helped us win the division and we could win another WS. And Bregman's numbers would have had no effect on the Angels' finish. Does that mean he wouldn't be the MVP then? |
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