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Post by blcoach8 on Sept 18, 2019 14:38:25 GMT -6
We don't know. I think Bonds was juiced and some of his numbers were not legitimate. On top of being juiced, he was an arrogant asshole. It’s not the Boy Scouts MVP, it’s the MLB MVP. I agree. If it was the Boy Scouts MVP Trout would probably win because so many think "he's the best player on the planet", and that may be true, but he is not the MVP because what he does has no effect on his team's success....Bregman's does. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Sept 18, 2019 14:39:32 GMT -6
You can be the best player without being the most valuable player. Trout is valuable only to himself as his team's finish is not effected by what he does. If Trout had hit 70 home runs and driven in over 150 runs, the Angels would still not have won anything. To me, a most valuable player has an overall effect on his teams accomplishments.....Trouts numbers had no effect on the Angels finish. Bregman's numbers helped us win the division and we could win another WS. And Bregman's numbers would have had no effect on the Angels' finish. Does that mean he wouldn't be the MVP then? If Bregman played for the Angels, he would not be the MVP for the same reason Trout is not the MVP. |
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Post by Saint on Sept 18, 2019 14:54:17 GMT -6
And Bregman's numbers would have had no effect on the Angels' finish. Does that mean he wouldn't be the MVP then? If Bregman played for the Angels, he would not be the MVP for the same reason Trout is not the MVP. So that means you're saying that an individual award has nothing to do with the individual. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Sept 18, 2019 14:56:06 GMT -6
How many more attempts are y'all gonna make?
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Post by Saint on Sept 18, 2019 14:57:35 GMT -6
Yar, as many as it takes!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by koolade2 on Sept 18, 2019 14:59:02 GMT -6
where is that watering hole? Horse is thirsty
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Post by blcoach8 on Sept 18, 2019 15:16:22 GMT -6
Yar, as many as it takes!!!!!!!!!!!! You can jump up and down and scream that Trout is the MVP until hell freezes over, but,. you would still be wrong. His stats have meant NOTHING to the Angels in terms of how they finished. Bregman's stats have meant a lot to how the Astros finish. That is what defines the MVP..not who hits the most home runs or has a high OPS or WAR. As someone said, stats don't tell the whole story. Trout didn't have to change positions because a candy ass took a vacation.....Bregman did and played SS as flawlessly as he did third base. He filled a big hole in our infield created by Correa's vacation. That doesn't show up in OPS or WAR, but, should be given consideration in determining MVP. I don't recall Trout making a difference in games played between the Astros and Angels. You keep on keeping on.......I'll keep on telling you that i disgree with you and you are wrong. You will not change my mind.........Alex Bregman is the MVP of the American League. |
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Post by bearbryant on Sept 18, 2019 15:19:21 GMT -6
The problem with the Yahoo article (and relying solely on rate stats for that matter) is it argues Trout can continue to miss 25 games a year, and we’ll continue to assume he would’ve finished with a 1000 OPS if he hadn't, cause he’s the best At some point he needs to play those 25 games to see if he can keep his OPS above 1000 like everyone else has to. Else what’s the difference between that and retiring early and folks calling him the greatest ever if he hadn’t retired early |
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Post by Saint on Sept 18, 2019 15:23:04 GMT -6
Yar, as many as it takes!!!!!!!!!!!! You can jump up and down and scream that Trout is the MVP until hell freezes over, but,. you would still be wrong. His stats have meant NOTHING to the Angels in terms of how they finished. Bregman's stats have meant a lot to how the Astros finish. That is what defines the MVP..not who hits the most home runs or has a high OPS or WAR. As someone said, stats don't tell the whole story. Trout didn't have to change positions because a candy ass took a vacation.....Bregman did and played SS as flawlessly as he did third base. He filled a big hole in our infield created by Correa's vacation. That doesn't show up in OPS or WAR, but, should be given consideration in determining MVP. I don't recall Trout making a difference in games played between the Astros and Angels. You keep on keeping on.......I'll keep on telling you that i disgree with you and you are wrong. You will not change my mind.........Alex Bregman is the MVP of the American League. It's not about the stats, fool. It's about your erroneous thought process that anybody on a bad team can't be the MVP. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Sept 18, 2019 15:33:38 GMT -6
You can jump up and down and scream that Trout is the MVP until hell freezes over, but,. you would still be wrong. His stats have meant NOTHING to the Angels in terms of how they finished. Bregman's stats have meant a lot to how the Astros finish. That is what defines the MVP..not who hits the most home runs or has a high OPS or WAR. As someone said, stats don't tell the whole story. Trout didn't have to change positions because a candy ass took a vacation.....Bregman did and played SS as flawlessly as he did third base. He filled a big hole in our infield created by Correa's vacation. That doesn't show up in OPS or WAR, but, should be given consideration in determining MVP. I don't recall Trout making a difference in games played between the Astros and Angels. You keep on keeping on.......I'll keep on telling you that i disgree with you and you are wrong. You will not change my mind.........Alex Bregman is the MVP of the American League. It's not about the stats, fool. It's about your erroneous thought process that anybody on a bad team can't be the MVP. No, FOOL.......it is about a player's overall value . And you have the "erroneous thought process" that a guy on a bad team should be the MVP because his stats dont' mean a damn thing to his team. Since you are so desperate that you resort to name-calling, junior. It shows you are desperate to be right.......and you are DEAD WRONG.......................FOOL. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Sept 18, 2019 15:34:35 GMT -6
The problem with the Yahoo article (and relying solely on rate stats for that matter) is it argues Trout can continue to miss 25 games a year, and we’ll continue to assume he would’ve finished with a 1000 OPS if he hadn't, cause he’s the best At some point he needs to play those 25 games to see if he can keep his OPS above 1000 like everyone else has to. Else what’s the difference between that and retiring early and folks calling him the greatest ever if he hadn’t retired early Saint the DUMBASS can't let that sink in. |
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Post by bearbryant on Sept 18, 2019 15:39:35 GMT -6
The problem with the Yahoo article (and relying solely on rate stats for that matter) is it argues Trout can continue to miss 25 games a year, and we’ll continue to assume he would’ve finished with a 1000 OPS if he hadn't, cause he’s the best At some point he needs to play those 25 games to see if he can keep his OPS above 1000 like everyone else has to. Else what’s the difference between that and retiring early and folks calling him the greatest ever if he hadn’t retired early Saint the DUMBASS can't let that sink in. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2019 15:54:24 GMT -6
Yar, as many as it takes!!!!!!!!!!!! You can jump up and down and scream that Trout is the MVP until hell freezes over, but,. you would still be wrong. His stats have meant NOTHING to the Angels in terms of how they finished. Bregman's stats have meant a lot to how the Astros finish. That is what defines the MVP..not who hits the most home runs or has a high OPS or WAR. As someone said, stats don't tell the whole story. Trout didn't have to change positions because a candy ass took a vacation.....Bregman did and played SS as flawlessly as he did third base. He filled a big hole in our infield created by Correa's vacation. That doesn't show up in OPS or WAR, but, should be given consideration in determining MVP. I don't recall Trout making a difference in games played between the Astros and Angels. You keep on keeping on.......I'll keep on telling you that i disgree with you and you are wrong. You will not change my mind.........Alex Bregman is the MVP of the American League. Coach....again refer to my earlier comment about Steve Carlton. Did he not deserve the '72 Cy, even though he was on maybe one of the worst teams in the '70's? |
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Post by blcoach8 on Sept 18, 2019 16:19:06 GMT -6
You can jump up and down and scream that Trout is the MVP until hell freezes over, but,. you would still be wrong. His stats have meant NOTHING to the Angels in terms of how they finished. Bregman's stats have meant a lot to how the Astros finish. That is what defines the MVP..not who hits the most home runs or has a high OPS or WAR. As someone said, stats don't tell the whole story. Trout didn't have to change positions because a candy ass took a vacation.....Bregman did and played SS as flawlessly as he did third base. He filled a big hole in our infield created by Correa's vacation. That doesn't show up in OPS or WAR, but, should be given consideration in determining MVP. I don't recall Trout making a difference in games played between the Astros and Angels. You keep on keeping on.......I'll keep on telling you that i disgree with you and you are wrong. You will not change my mind.........Alex Bregman is the MVP of the American League. Coach....again refer to my earlier comment about Steve Carlton. Did he not deserve the '72 Cy, even though he was on maybe one of the worst teams in the '70's? He probably deserved it. I don't remember that far back. I wanted Verlander to get it last e=year but Snell deserved it. I am sure most will think I'm wrong but I don't look at the CY Young and the MVP the same way. I don't think a pitcher should ever get the MVP because he doesn't play every day. The MVP should be the best position player who leads his team to a great season. If I remember correctly, Carlton pitched for the Phillies in '72 and they were terrible at the time. |
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Post by koolade2 on Sept 18, 2019 16:31:45 GMT -6
Look I am not taking any one side but WHY is it the MVP in the WS or any of the other Play Off Series is the MVP only from the Winning team even though on occasion a player from the losers had the best Stats.
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Post by unionstation82 on Sept 18, 2019 16:38:36 GMT -6
Look I am not taking any one side but WHY is it the MVP in the WS or any of the other Play Off Series is the MVP only from the Winning team even though on occasion a player from the losers had the best Stats. Sometimes, you have a Mike Scott or Bobby Richardson win a postseason award for the losing team, but I’m sure the winners really don’t care about winning them. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2019 16:39:28 GMT -6
Look I am not taking any one side but WHY is it the MVP in the WS or any of the other Play Off Series is the MVP only from the Winning team even though on occasion a player from the losers had the best Stats. Exceptions- WS- 1960- Bobby Richardson- Yankees LCS- 1982- Fred Lynn- Angels 1986- Mike Scott - Astros 1987 - Jeff Leonard- Giants |
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Post by koolade2 on Sept 18, 2019 17:50:27 GMT -6
So you found 4 in the last 60 years. None since 1987
He dominated in the 1982 playoffs, winning the ALCS MVP. Wait a minute... a player from the losing team won the award? Yes - Fred is the only player in baseball history to win a playoff MVP and be on the losing team. Nothing underscores more how the Angels choked away that series in that there was no standout Brewers player to deserve the award.
In recognition of his regular-season performance, Scott was awarded the 1986 National League Cy Young Award as the league's best pitcher. Scott was also voted the NL 1986 NLCS MVP, the first time in NLCS history that a member of the losing team was so honored (a year later, the San Francisco Giants' Jeffrey Leonard would become the second consecutive NLCS MVP of the losing team).
Richardson was the first Position Player to win the first 11 years. Yankees are the only team to lose a WS on a Walk-off HR. The Yankee's destroyed them in offense that series but still lost.
I still say it doesn't happen that way in Real Life today. BEEN 33 years a lot has changed in the way the Public and Media now look at Sports.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2019 17:53:27 GMT -6
So you found 4 in the last 60 years. None since 1987 He dominated in the 1982 playoffs, winning the ALCS MVP. Wait a minute... a player from the losing team won the award? Yes - Fred is the only player in baseball history to win a playoff MVP and be on the losing team. Nothing underscores more how the Angels choked away that series in that there was no standout Brewers player to deserve the award. In recognition of his regular-season performance, Scott was awarded the 1986 National League Cy Young Award as the league's best pitcher. Scott was also voted the NL 1986 NLCS MVP, the first time in NLCS history that a member of the losing team was so honored (a year later, the San Francisco Giants' Jeffrey Leonard would become the second consecutive NLCS MVP of the losing team). Richardson was the first Position Player to win the first 11 years. Yankees are the only team to lose a WS on a Walk-off HR. The Yankee's destroyed them in offense that series but still lost. I still say it doesn't happen that way in Real Life today. BEEN 33 years a lot has changed in the way the Public and Media now look at Sports. Still, your statement inferred, like it never happened. 1986 doesn't seem like that long ago to me. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2019 17:55:54 GMT -6
Here's something crazy. 1Babe Ruth only won 1 MVP because of the rule back then that a player could never win more than one in his career. WTF!
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Post by koolade2 on Sept 18, 2019 17:57:13 GMT -6
Look I am not taking any one side but WHY is it the MVP in the WS or any of the other Play Off Series is the MVP only from the Winning team even though on occasion a player from the losers had the best Stats. Sometimes, you have a Mike Scott or Bobby Richardson win a postseason award for the losing team, but I’m sure the winners really don’t care about winning them. Which would you rather win the WS or MVP? Would you rather be on the team going to WS or winning the MVP award on one of the worse teams that Year? |
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Post by koolade2 on Sept 18, 2019 18:04:39 GMT -6
So you found 4 in the last 60 years. None since 1987 He dominated in the 1982 playoffs, winning the ALCS MVP. Wait a minute... a player from the losing team won the award? Yes - Fred is the only player in baseball history to win a playoff MVP and be on the losing team. Nothing underscores more how the Angels choked away that series in that there was no standout Brewers player to deserve the award. In recognition of his regular-season performance, Scott was awarded the 1986 National League Cy Young Award as the league's best pitcher. Scott was also voted the NL 1986 NLCS MVP, the first time in NLCS history that a member of the losing team was so honored (a year later, the San Francisco Giants' Jeffrey Leonard would become the second consecutive NLCS MVP of the losing team). Richardson was the first Position Player to win the first 11 years. Yankees are the only team to lose a WS on a Walk-off HR. The Yankee's destroyed them in offense that series but still lost. I still say it doesn't happen that way in Real Life today. BEEN 33 years a lot has changed in the way the Public and Media now look at Sports. Still, your statement inferred, like it never happened. 1986 doesn't seem like that long ago to me. I was wrong but 4 in 64 years of WS play What does that tell you. THE MVP usually comes from the team with the Winning Record. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2019 18:05:37 GMT -6
Here's something crazy. 1Babe Ruth only won 1 MVP because of the rule back then that a player could never win more than one in his career. WTF! I did not know that.  No Trophy for You...... |
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Post by churchill on Sept 18, 2019 21:16:53 GMT -6
Put Trout on the Astros and Bregman on the Angels, which team improved and which team got worse?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2019 14:35:45 GMT -6
It's sad how sports shows and analyst have built up Trout so much over the years with metrics and WAR that they can't move on from it to acknowledge that Bregman is having a similar year on a much better team. And the ones that say Bregman could be MVP downplay it by saying that Trout is still the best player in baseball as if they feel guilty mentioning anyone else's name.
Bregman 2019 25 HOU AL 150 gms, 664 PA, 535 ABs, 117 Rns, 157 Hits, 35 2bs, 2 3bs, 39 HRs, 108 RBIs, 5 SB, 1 CS, 112 BBs, 81 Ks, .293 Avg, .419 OB%, .585 Slug, 1.004 OPS, 160 OPS+, 313 TB, 9 GDP, 9 HBP, 0 SH, 8 SF, 2 IBB
Trout 2019 27 LAA AL 134 gms, 600 PA, 470 ABs, 110 Rns, 137 Hits, 27 2bs, 2 3bs, 45 HRs, 104 RBIs, 11 SB, 2 CS, 110 BBs, 120 Ks, .291 Avg, .438 OB%, .645 Slug, 1.083 OPS, 184 OPS+. 303 TB. 5 GDP, 16 HBP, 0 SH, 4 SF, 14 IBB
In my book those are pretty equal considering the # of games played. Bregman should get the edge because he played in almost every game. Also, if you take away IBBs and HBP (because that's a stat where the batter has no control over- they don't have to make a decision in the AB) then their OB% is almost identical.
And if you are into WAR Bregman has a 7.8 while Trout 8.3
Trout winning the MVP wouldn't be an upset by any means but to say that Trout is far and away better than any player in the game this year is no accurate by any stretch.
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Post by Saint on Sept 24, 2019 9:37:50 GMT -6
It's sad how sports shows and analyst have built up Trout so much over the years with metrics and WAR that they can't move on from it to acknowledge that Bregman is having a similar year on a much better team. And the ones that say Bregman could be MVP downplay it by saying that Trout is still the best player in baseball as if they feel guilty mentioning anyone else's name.
Bregman 2019 25 HOU AL 150 gms, 664 PA, 535 ABs, 117 Rns, 157 Hits, 35 2bs, 2 3bs, 39 HRs, 108 RBIs, 5 SB, 1 CS, 112 BBs, 81 Ks, .293 Avg, .419 OB%, .585 Slug, 1.004 OPS, 160 OPS+, 313 TB, 9 GDP, 9 HBP, 0 SH, 8 SF, 2 IBB
Trout 2019 27 LAA AL 134 gms, 600 PA, 470 ABs, 110 Rns, 137 Hits, 27 2bs, 2 3bs, 45 HRs, 104 RBIs, 11 SB, 2 CS, 110 BBs, 120 Ks, .291 Avg, .438 OB%, .645 Slug, 1.083 OPS, 184 OPS+. 303 TB. 5 GDP, 16 HBP, 0 SH, 4 SF, 14 IBB
In my book those are pretty equal considering the # of games played. Bregman should get the edge because he played in almost every game. Also, if you take away IBBs and HBP (because that's a stat where the batter has no control over- they don't have to make a decision in the AB) then their OB% is almost identical.
And if you are into WAR Bregman has a 7.8 while Trout 8.3
Trout winning the MVP wouldn't be an upset by any means but to say that Trout is far and away better than any player in the game this year is no accurate by any stretch.
I think it's okay to say that Trout is the best player in the AL, but he's going to have to missed too many games, in my opinion, to be the "most valuable" when guys like Bregman and Semien aren't that far behind him and played all season. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Sept 24, 2019 9:51:36 GMT -6
Here is the latest mock vote  |
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Post by Saint on Sept 24, 2019 10:41:35 GMT -6
That doesn't bode well for Bregman with only a week left.
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Post by sempersmom on Sept 24, 2019 10:59:38 GMT -6
I saw that earlier. The voters suck.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2019 11:09:54 GMT -6
That doesn't bode well for Bregman with only a week left. Yep, 36-1 at this point is unsurmountable. I have been saying for weeks that the baseball illuminati wasn't going to let the Astros get away with the hat trick. OTOH, cause for celebration for the CY and ROY. IMO- 100% and 90% chance at this point. |
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