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Post by Saint on Oct 3, 2019 15:49:31 GMT -6
So then, using your argument, him missing out on facing us for several games at the end of the year probably kept his numbers from being worse? That would help Bregman even more. l guess we'll never know. I will be surprised if Trout doesn't win. I think Trout will win too, but, after originally thinking he should, I don't now. Bregman did a great job of catching up and passing him. If he hadn't passed him in WAR and some other areas, I was still leaning towards Trout. |
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Post by churchill on Oct 3, 2019 16:05:06 GMT -6
l guess we'll never know. I will be surprised if Trout doesn't win. I think Trout will win too, but, after originally thinking he should, I don't now. Bregman did a great job of catching up and passing him. If he hadn't passed him in WAR and some other areas, I was still leaning towards Trout. I look at this way if Trout played for the Astros and Bregman played Angels, which team improved and which team got worse.
I agree that the vote got much closer with the injury to Trout. Trout was on pace for 50+ HRs and 120 RBIs.
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Post by churchill on Oct 3, 2019 16:14:11 GMT -6
Trout would trade his MVP awards for a WS ring, so Bregman should be happy with his season either way.
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Post by abregmanfan on Oct 3, 2019 16:32:33 GMT -6
I think Trout will win too, but, after originally thinking he should, I don't now. Bregman did a great job of catching up and passing him. If he hadn't passed him in WAR and some other areas, I was still leaning towards Trout. I look at this way if Trout played for the Astros and Bregman played Angels, which team improved and which team got worse.
I agree that the vote got much closer with the injury to Trout. Trout was on pace for 50+ HRs and 120 RBIs.
On pace does not equal crap in my book. If you hit a home run in the 1st game of the season and get hurt...You were on pace for a 162 home run season.. |
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Post by paastrosfan on Oct 3, 2019 16:33:39 GMT -6
Trout would trade his MVP awards for a WS ring, so Bregman should be happy with his season either way. Well Winston this is my take, of course I am a Stros fan and would be a homer. But one thing not discussed is the batting order around the hitter. Yes the Bregman had player injuries around his supporting cast during the year in the order. Where Trout did have little protection around him so pitchers could pitch around. Either way it is going to be a close vote and the writers will pick their choice. |
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Post by Saint on Oct 3, 2019 16:56:17 GMT -6
I think Trout will win too, but, after originally thinking he should, I don't now. Bregman did a great job of catching up and passing him. If he hadn't passed him in WAR and some other areas, I was still leaning towards Trout. I look at this way if Trout played for the Astros and Bregman played Angels, which team improved and which team got worse.
I agree that the vote got much closer with the injury to Trout. Trout was on pace for 50+ HRs and 120 RBIs.
The Astros may have been better during the first 130 games by a little, but far far worse at the end since Trout didn't even play. |
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Post by churchill on Oct 3, 2019 20:48:17 GMT -6
I look at this way if Trout played for the Astros and Bregman played Angels, which team improved and which team got worse.
I agree that the vote got much closer with the injury to Trout. Trout was on pace for 50+ HRs and 120 RBIs.
On pace does not equal crap in my book. If you hit a home run in the 1st game of the season and get hurt...You were on pace for a 162 home run season.. OK fine he still hit 45 HR in a pitchers park. He leads the AL in OBP, SLG, OPS, OPS+...
Jeff Fletcher
@jefffletcherocr
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Mike Trout was named Baseball Digest’s MLB Player of the Year.
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Post by paastrosfan on Oct 3, 2019 20:54:14 GMT -6
I am starting to think Winston is Ace in disguise.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2019 21:11:03 GMT -6
On pace does not equal crap in my book. If you hit a home run in the 1st game of the season and get hurt...You were on pace for a 162 home run season.. OK fine he still hit 45 HR in a pitchers park. He leads the AL in OBP, SLG, OPS, OPS+...
Jeff Fletcher
@jefffletcherocr
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Mike Trout was named Baseball Digest’s MLB Player of the Year.
The Baseball Digest Player of the Year Award has been issued annually since 1969. The player who wins that award, has went on to win their league's BBWA MVP 36 of 50 times during that time period. (Exceptions- '69, '74, '78, '79, '83, '85, '89, '90,'92, '95, '96, '00, '03, '06) Not a given that Trout has sealed the deal, but interestingly the awards have been aligned the 12 years. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2019 21:11:39 GMT -6
I am starting to think Winston is Ace in disguise. The Ass of Diamonds wouldn't dare to show his face here. |
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Post by churchill on Oct 3, 2019 21:37:07 GMT -6
OK fine he still hit 45 HR in a pitchers park. He leads the AL in OBP, SLG, OPS, OPS+...
Jeff Fletcher
@jefffletcherocr
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Mike Trout was named Baseball Digest’s MLB Player of the Year.
The Baseball Digest Player of the Year Award has been issued annually since 1969. The player who wins that award, has went on to win their league's BBWA MVP 36 of 50 times during that time period. (Exceptions- '69, '74, '78, '79, '83, '85, '89, '90,'92, '95, '96, '00, '03, '06) Not a given that Trout has sealed the deal, but interestingly the awards have been aligned the 12 years. l totally agree, it's going to be close either way. I feel sorry for Trout that Angels have failed to surround him with enough talent to make the post season. He'll have to make do with $430M for now. |
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Post by churchill on Oct 3, 2019 21:59:11 GMT -6
Does Verlander or Cole win the Cy Young award? I looks like Alvarez wins the ROY award even though he only played 89 games. Do you think the Astros can afford to re-sign Cole, or will he move on?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2019 22:00:20 GMT -6
Does Verlander or Cole win the Cy Young award? I looks like Alvarez wins the ROY award even though he only played 89 games. Do you think the Astros can afford to re-sign Cole, or will he move on? Why would you think playing 89 games would disqualify or lessen his chances? |
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Post by churchill on Oct 3, 2019 23:34:23 GMT -6
Why would you think playing 89 games would disqualify or lessen his chances? l didn't say it would |
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Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood...
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Post by marshall on Oct 4, 2019 0:38:22 GMT -6
I kind of see the duplicity in our arguments as Astros fans. We like Rate Stats for ROY candidate Yordon Alvarez and count stats for MVP candidate Alex Bregman.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2019 1:42:53 GMT -6
I kind of see the duplicity in our arguments as Astros fans. We like Rate Stats for ROY candidate Yordon Alvarez and count stats for MVP candidate Alex Bregman. Actually, take Alvarez overall #s (forgetting games played) and he still beats out the other rookies.
When it comes to Bregman and Trout I see similarity in their #s with the glaring difference is team wins. Since we can't replay the season by putting better players around Trout this year (like a video game) we have to go by what is on paper as well as how the season played out.
In my mind if Bregman didn't play (with all of the injuries we had this year to key players) we would have had to substitute a AAA prospect at 3b or move Yuli to 3rd and have that player play there. Either way we have guys playing out of position. We don't just lose 8 wins like WAR says we probably lose at least 15 wins. Instead of 107 perhaps the Astros don't even make the playoffs. Now what that equates to is a team on the cusp to being elite. Again that is speculation. Just like if Trout didn't play the entire year and the Angels still won 72 games, then people could say well with Trout they would have won 25 more games and been in the playoffs.
Bottom line is, the easiest way to determine "value" of a player is to go by the stats and to figure up game by game what he gave to the team. You can't determine a players value on games missed because you don't know how well his replacement would have done. The game would have played out differently from players playing out of position to different relief pitchers coming into the game due to the situation.
Bregman was on an elite team (best in the league) with 40+ HRs, 100+ runs, RBIs and walks, Kd only 83 times with an OPS over 1000. Looking at Trout's #s and they are similar. In my book the Astros team wins plays as the tie-breaker. If it was the other way around with the Angels having 107 wins and the Astros 72 it would be a no brainer. We are not talking about the A's team here who made the playoffs we are talking about a team that had 35 less wins than the Astros.
You think it's hard to get good #s when you are constantly being walked well how about being on a team full of guys that can hit and you still get walked?
Oh and if we were to go by PROJECTED #s then Springer could win it. He would have had almost 50 HRs. And Alvarez would have been considered for the MVP projected over 50+ HRs with 150 RBIs. Hell let's add his AAA #s in there and say they are major league #s. Boom you got your MVP
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2019 2:08:17 GMT -6
With the above said, that doesn't mean I feel Bregman will win it. With Alvarez and Cole/Verlander taking home awards I feel Trout may indeed take the MVP but why? In 2012 Posey won the MVP in the NL over Braun despite having less hits, RBIs, 17 less HRs, 9 less RBIs and less OPS. Posey had a higher batting average which isn't weighted as highly as it used to and a WAR 0.7 higher. But SF had 11 more wins than the Brewers and went to the playoffs.
1 Buster Posey SFG 422.0 27.0 94% 7.6 148 530 78 178 24 103 1 69 .336 .408 .549 .957
2 Ryan Braun MIL 285.0 3.0 64% 6.9 154 598 108 191 41 112 30 63 .319 .391 .595 .987
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2019 2:17:04 GMT -6
Does Verlander or Cole win the Cy Young award? I looks like Alvarez wins the ROY award even though he only played 89 games. Do you think the Astros can afford to re-sign Cole, or will he move on? And to answer this: Verlander wins it. He has only won ONE in his career so far and came in second 3 other times (including last year). He improved on his numbers from last year and won't finish 2nd again. The voters will see him as a player that may not be able to keep this up for much longer and will give him the award based on his achievements as well as dominance. Cole has similar #s with monthly awards but Verlander has the edge with the no-no, still hit 300 ks (First time in his career), 21 wins at the age of 36.
By the way, wouldn't it be funny if Verlander won the Cy Young and G.Cole actually won the overall MVP  |
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Post by Saint on Oct 4, 2019 7:05:09 GMT -6
I kind of see the duplicity in our arguments as Astros fans. We like Rate Stats for ROY candidate Yordon Alvarez and count stats for MVP candidate Alex Bregman. As always, it should be a combination thereof, with defense factored in. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Oct 4, 2019 7:15:03 GMT -6
I kind of see the duplicity in our arguments as Astros fans. We like Rate Stats for ROY candidate Yordon Alvarez and count stats for MVP candidate Alex Bregman. As always, it should be a combination thereof, with defense factored in. Then, Yordan is screwed. |
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Post by Saint on Oct 4, 2019 7:18:02 GMT -6
As always, it should be a combination thereof, with defense factored in. Then, Yordan is screwed. Not if his offense is far and away better than the combination of the other rookies' total performance. Which it was. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Oct 4, 2019 7:19:36 GMT -6
Not if his offense is far and away better than the combination of the other rookies' total performance. Which it was. Let’s hope. |
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Post by Saint on Oct 4, 2019 7:22:21 GMT -6
Not if his offense is far and away better than the combination of the other rookies' total performance. Which it was. Let’s hope. Nah, I don't think there is any debate about Yordan winning. And JV won the Digest Pitcher of the Year award if that means anything. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Oct 4, 2019 8:37:41 GMT -6
With the above said, that doesn't mean I feel Bregman will win it. With Alvarez and Cole/Verlander taking home awards I feel Trout may indeed take the MVP but why? In 2012 Posey won the MVP in the NL over Braun despite having less hits, RBIs, 17 less HRs, 9 less RBIs and less OPS. Posey had a higher batting average which isn't weighted as highly as it used to and a WAR 0.7 higher. But SF had 11 more wins than the Brewers and went to the playoffs. 1 Buster Posey SFG 422.0 27.0 94% 7.6 148 530 78 178 24 103 1 69 .336 .408 .549 .957 2 Ryan Braun MIL 285.0 3.0 64% 6.9 154 598 108 191 41 112 30 63 .319 .391 .595 .987 Cuz Braun's a PED user. He shouldn't even be allowed to play, much less win the top awards |
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Post by Saint on Oct 4, 2019 8:40:46 GMT -6
With the above said, that doesn't mean I feel Bregman will win it. With Alvarez and Cole/Verlander taking home awards I feel Trout may indeed take the MVP but why? In 2012 Posey won the MVP in the NL over Braun despite having less hits, RBIs, 17 less HRs, 9 less RBIs and less OPS. Posey had a higher batting average which isn't weighted as highly as it used to and a WAR 0.7 higher. But SF had 11 more wins than the Brewers and went to the playoffs. 1 Buster Posey SFG 422.0 27.0 94% 7.6 148 530 78 178 24 103 1 69 .336 .408 .549 .957 2 Ryan Braun MIL 285.0 3.0 64% 6.9 154 598 108 191 41 112 30 63 .319 .391 .595 .987 Cuz Braun's a PED user. He shouldn't even be allowed to play, much less win the top awards That season we before he was a known PED-user. |
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