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Post by sempersmom on Sept 11, 2019 8:17:58 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2019 23:23:04 GMT -6
With Trout now out for the season this may open the door for Bregman to win MVP.
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Post by Saint on Sept 16, 2019 10:46:09 GMT -6
Bregman has a chance, but he needs a really strong finish.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2019 18:28:13 GMT -6
Who else is there in the conversation other than Trout and Bregman?
DJ LeMahieu?
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Post by Saint on Sept 16, 2019 18:29:49 GMT -6
DJ, Bogaerts, Semien, Santana, Cruz would all get some votes.
But I think Bregman is above all of them.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2019 18:31:56 GMT -6
I think you got to knock out Bogaerts since they won't make the playoffs.
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Sept 16, 2019 18:53:31 GMT -6
I think you got to knock out Bogaerts since they won't make the playoffs. So you knock out Trout, too? |
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Post by sempersmom on Sept 17, 2019 8:38:50 GMT -6
I think you got to knock out Bogaerts since they won't make the playoffs. So you knock out Trout, too? Unfortunately, Trout is never out of the MVP talk. |
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Post by Saint on Sept 17, 2019 9:34:12 GMT -6
Bregman has two weeks to go out with a bang and make his case. This injury leaves the door wide open for him. Bregman's defense has been better, and when you add in that he has played two different positions very well, that should help.
Bregman could (or already has) surpass Trout in all of the following categories:
Hits
Runs
RBI
Doubles
Walks
AVG
OBP
WAR
The WAR, and OBP are big things with voters, like it or not. He won't catch him in HRs or SBs. But, if he could hit/steal a couple more to narrow the gap while leading the other categories, he could do just enough.
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Post by Saint on Sept 17, 2019 9:47:24 GMT -6
From a Yahoo article supporting Trout's case (he's not wrong, but I think he underestimates what can happen in 15% of a season):
"MVP candidates are dropping like flies. Just a week after the Brewers lost NL frontrunner Christian Yelich for the season due to a fractured kneecap, the Angels announced that Mike Trout, resident god figure of the AL, will be sidelined for what’s left of 2019 with a foot injury. Trout, who hasn’t played since Sept. 7, will undergo surgery to remove a Morton’s neuroma, a very medical textbook-sounding issue that was causing him enough pain to result in a season-ending procedure. The game’s best player should be fine for next year, but this campaign will sadly come to an early close.
Unlike Yelich, Trout’s injury will have no impact on his team: While Milwaukee is still scrapping for one of the NL’s wild-card spots, Los Angeles long ago vanished from the AL race and, at 67–82, is assured of a fourth straight losing season. His absence will still be felt, but given that the Angels had already shut down Shohei Ohtani (knee) and Justin Upton (knee) earlier this week, the only immediate result is to make a weak lineup that much worse.
Instead, the context that matters for Trout’s injury is individual, both in terms of the excellent season he was having and in an AL MVP race that may tighten with him gone. Last month, I ranked Trout’s eight full seasons, both because that kind of celebration of dominance is fun and because I wanted to see where his superlative 2019 might fit. I placed it second, behind last year, because I wanted to see how it played out fully. “If his current pace continues, then 2019 has a strong case to become No. 1 with a bullet,” I wrote. (I also noted that Trout could roll out of bed and break his foot to cut his year short, so, uh, sorry Mike.)
With his season now officially over, Trout’s 2019 still looks plenty gaudy. He set a career high in homers with 45 and slugging percentage at .645—both of which are first in the AL—and leads the majors in walks (110), on-base percentage (.438) and OPS+ (184). His 8.3 bWAR is tops in the AL (and tied with Cody Bellinger for best in baseball), and by fWAR, he’s No. 1 in the majors at 8.6, comfortably ahead of Yelich, Alex Bregman and Bellinger. This year marks the sixth of Trout’s career with 8.0 or more bWAR; only nine other players in history have done that more times, and they’re all the elite of the elite of the elite (as is his company at six).
The shame is that, as with 2018 and ‘17, Trout won’t get a chance to add to those impressive stats. With just 134 games, this marks the third straight year he’ll fail to crack the 140 mark—a potentially worrisome sign, though his abbreviated ‘17 campaign (114 games) is largely due to a torn thumb ligament suffered sliding into a base, which is as fluky an injury as you can find. This current malady shouldn’t be an issue going forward, but Trout’s durability is something to watch, particularly as he gets closer to 30.
Still, the record Trout leaves behind for this season is as good as it gets, even if some of his accomplishments will fall as others pass him. His week-long absence had already cost him the majors’ overall home run crown, currently a battle between Pete Alonso and Eugenio Suarez, and he’ll almost certainly lose the AL title to Jorge Soler, who’s hit 44. Bregman will overtake him in walks, and Rangers starting pitcher Mike Minor has an outside chance of beating him in bWAR in the AL (he’s at 7.7, albeit with only two or three starts left.)
But Trout should hold on to his advantage in OBP, slugging percentage, OPS+ and wRC+ (179, with Yelich at 173 and Bregman at 164), which should help give him an edge when it comes time to cast MVP votes in November. Bregman is his best competition, and Trout has him beat in those four categories above, as well as home runs, stolen bases, Win Probability Added, Baserunning Runs, and all three flavors of WAR (bWAR, fWAR, and Baseball Prospectus’ WARP). That alphabet soup may not mean much for a segment of the voting base, but making the case for Bregman as the MVP, given Trout’s numerous statistical advantages, rests entirely on the fact that the Astros are a better team than the Angels. There’s no doubting that, but that’s also not Trout’s fault, unless he was the one who told Billy Eppler to give $28.5 million in the offseason to Matt Harvey, Trevor Cahill and Cody Allen. Trout’s career has been one long sad example of how hard it is for a superstar to lift a franchise by himself, and 2019 is no exception.
So while Trout’s departure will likely hurt his MVP chances with some voters, it’s unlikely to be a deciding factor (and said voters probably weren’t going to choose him anyway). He still played nearly 85% of a full season, and 85% of Trout is far better than 100% of everyone. It’s a bummer of a way for his year to come to an end, but hopefully it doesn’t take away from what should be the third MVP award of his career—a sweeter note to finish 2019 on than this unfortunate injury."
For those that don't want to read something that long:
Trout has better rate stats and they're so good it shouldn't make a difference. It's not his fault that his team is bad. Bregman has the best chance, but he's too far off to catch him.
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Post by blcoach8 on Sept 17, 2019 9:53:57 GMT -6
Bregman is the MVP........he helped lead his team to a title...........Trput led his team to being 28 games behind Bregman's team. Trut makes annual visits to the IL due to a foot and should not awarded the MFP for being injured. Bregman has been here all season doing his job and leading his team. He is the MVP.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2019 18:13:17 GMT -6
So you knock out Trout, too? Unfortunately, Trout is never out of the MVP talk. Yeah, Trout is the outlier. He will always be in the MVP conversation regardless of how the Angels do. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2019 4:45:36 GMT -6
Unfortunately, Trout is never out of the MVP talk. Yeah, Trout is the outlier. He will always be in the MVP conversation regardless of how the Angels do. I just realized, isn't this like the 3rd consecutive season that Trout has missed a significant amount of time due to injury? He may be the best player in baseball, but that's got to be a troubling trend that should be concerning to the Angel's brass. |
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Post by Saint on Sept 18, 2019 7:36:53 GMT -6
Yeah, Trout is the outlier. He will always be in the MVP conversation regardless of how the Angels do. I just realized, isn't this like the 3rd consecutive season that Trout has missed a significant amount of time due to injury? He may be the best player in baseball, but that's got to be a troubling trend that should be concerning to the Angel's brass. And that's what has kept him from winning more MVPs. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Sept 18, 2019 8:37:15 GMT -6
I just realized, isn't this like the 3rd consecutive season that Trout has missed a significant amount of time due to injury? He may be the best player in baseball, but that's got to be a troubling trend that should be concerning to the Angel's brass. And that's what has kept him from winning more MVPs. An MVP leads his team to a title.......the Angels could have finished 30 games behind the Astros without Trout. Trout puts up great individual numbers but is apparently satisfied with playing for a loser. I admire his loyalty but I like players who put an importance on winning. Bregman is putting up outstanding numbers and helping lead the Astros to a potential WS title.......Trout has led his team nowhere. |
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Post by Saint on Sept 18, 2019 8:41:27 GMT -6
And that's what has kept him from winning more MVPs. An MVP leads his team to a title.......the Angels could have finished 30 games behind the Astros without Trout. Trout puts up great individual numbers but is apparently satisfied with playing for a loser. I admire his loyalty but I like players who put an importance on winning. Bregman is putting up outstanding numbers and helping lead the Astros to a potential WS title.......Trout has led his team nowhere. Yes, we've heard you say that. You're wrong, but we've heard you say that. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2019 8:51:38 GMT -6
And that's what has kept him from winning more MVPs. An MVP leads his team to a title.......the Angels could have finished 30 games behind the Astros without Trout. Trout puts up great individual numbers but is apparently satisfied with playing for a loser. I admire his loyalty but I like players who put an importance on winning. Bregman is putting up outstanding numbers and helping lead the Astros to a potential WS title.......Trout has led his team nowhere. Respectfully disagree. The award would be jaded if it only went to successful teams, and not to players whose superior stats are overlooked. Can you imagine if Carlton hadn't won the Cy in '72? |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Sept 18, 2019 9:02:33 GMT -6
An MVP leads his team to a title.......the Angels could have finished 30 games behind the Astros without Trout. Trout puts up great individual numbers but is apparently satisfied with playing for a loser. I admire his loyalty but I like players who put an importance on winning. Bregman is putting up outstanding numbers and helping lead the Astros to a potential WS title.......Trout has led his team nowhere. Yes, we've heard you say that. You're wrong, but we've heard you say that. I don't think I've ever encountered anyone who has been so consistently wrong about such a wide array of subjects. |
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Post by Saint on Sept 18, 2019 9:27:41 GMT -6
Yes, we've heard you say that. You're wrong, but we've heard you say that. I don't think I've ever encountered anyone who has been so consistently wrong about such a wide array of subjects. I mean, if the two were completely equal it might be a factor, but, right now at least, they aren't quite equal. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2019 9:31:52 GMT -6
Yes, we've heard you say that. You're wrong, but we've heard you say that. I don't think I've ever encountered anyone who has been so consistently wrong about such a wide array of subjects. I am convinced Hank Hill has materialized from cartoon form.  |
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Post by blcoach8 on Sept 18, 2019 9:37:34 GMT -6
An MVP leads his team to a title.......the Angels could have finished 30 games behind the Astros without Trout. Trout puts up great individual numbers but is apparently satisfied with playing for a loser. I admire his loyalty but I like players who put an importance on winning. Bregman is putting up outstanding numbers and helping lead the Astros to a potential WS title.......Trout has led his team nowhere. Yes, we've heard you say that. You're wrong, but we've heard you say that. yes, I have said it and will say it as often as I feel like it. You are the one that is wrong.....you idolize Trout so.....in your mind......he is the MVP. You ignore that his team is at the bottom of the division and has not made the playoff ONCE during his career. I will continue to say that Bregman is the MVP because he leads his team to titles. Why do you insist that putting up great personal stats makes Trout the MVP? His team has not accomplished a damn thing and never will. MVP's play for and helped lead WINNING teams. You are dead wrong as usual......But, you love Trout's stats so he is the MVP..........NO, he is a good player who plays for a loser and he is happy to lose or he wouldn't have signed an extension with the Angels. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Sept 18, 2019 9:40:37 GMT -6
Yes, we've heard you say that. You're wrong, but we've heard you say that. I don't think I've ever encountered anyone who has been so consistently wrong about such a wide array of subjects. So, I am wrong because I disagree with you and some others? HAHAHA. I assure you I am right on more subjects than you. you call a gold glove caliber outfielder the worst player in baseball....enough said on your baseball knowledge. |
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Post by Saint on Sept 18, 2019 9:44:16 GMT -6
Yes, we've heard you say that. You're wrong, but we've heard you say that. yes, I have said it and will say it as often as I feel like it. You are the one that is wrong.....you idolize Trout so.....in your mind......he is the MVP. You ignore that his team is at the bottom of the division and has not made the playoff ONCE during his career. I will continue to say that Bregman is the MVP because he leads his team to titles. Why do you insist that putting up great personal stats makes Trout the MVP? His team has not accomplished a damn thing and never will. MVP's play for and helped lead WINNING teams. You are dead wrong as usual......But, you love Trout's stats so he is the MVP..........NO, he is a good player who plays for a loser and he is happy to lose or he wouldn't have signed an extension with the Angels. Because it is an individual-based award; not a team-based award. Trout, at the moment, has been the best player in the league...meaning he is the most valuable by default for any team. And I don't care about Trout either way. He's not an Astro. But the guy is the best player in the AL at the moment. I'd rather it be Bregman or Springer, etc. but it isn't. Bregman has a chance to catch him though. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Sept 18, 2019 9:45:06 GMT -6
I don't think I've ever encountered anyone who has been so consistently wrong about such a wide array of subjects. I am convinced Hank Hill has materialized from cartoon form. Never heard of Hank Hill but if he would think Trout is the MVP, he's wrong too. Where is Trout..........on the IL with a foot injury. How many times has he been on the IL due to a foot injury.......too many times to count. The Angels could finis 30 game out without Trout so just exactly why is he do damn valuable? His presence has not meant a damn thing to his team. Bregman stays in the lineup and produces for a team that wins. He is the definition of an MVP.....Trout is a great player but no MVP. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Sept 18, 2019 9:47:24 GMT -6
yes, I have said it and will say it as often as I feel like it. You are the one that is wrong.....you idolize Trout so.....in your mind......he is the MVP. You ignore that his team is at the bottom of the division and has not made the playoff ONCE during his career. I will continue to say that Bregman is the MVP because he leads his team to titles. Why do you insist that putting up great personal stats makes Trout the MVP? His team has not accomplished a damn thing and never will. MVP's play for and helped lead WINNING teams. You are dead wrong as usual......But, you love Trout's stats so he is the MVP..........NO, he is a good player who plays for a loser and he is happy to lose or he wouldn't have signed an extension with the Angels. Because it is an individual-based award; not a team-based award. Trout, at the moment, has been the best player in the league...meaning he is the most valuable by default for any team. And I don't care about Trout either way. He's not an Astro. But the guy is the best player in the AL at the moment. I'd rather it be Bregman or Springer, etc. but it isn't. Bregman has a chance to catch him though. I repeat.......he has not been valuable to his team. Name ONE thing they have accomplished due to his presence. Bregman will probably be in a World Series while Trout sits home......as usual.......and watches. It is obvious that our definitions of "valuable' are different. To me, an MVP is a player whose team would not be where it is without him and he has played a major role in what his team accomplishes. The Angels would be in the same place without Trout as they are with him. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Sept 18, 2019 9:49:38 GMT -6
Yes, we've heard you say that. You're wrong, but we've heard you say that. Why do you insist that putting up great personal stats makes Trout the MVP? His team has not accomplished a damn thing and never will. MVP's play for and helped lead WINNING teams. Because it's the Most Valuable PLAYER. Not Most Valuable TEAM. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2019 9:51:06 GMT -6
I am convinced Hank Hill has materialized from cartoon form. Never heard of Hank Hill Do you bar-b-que with propane? Just wondering. |
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Post by Saint on Sept 18, 2019 9:51:11 GMT -6
Because it is an individual-based award; not a team-based award. Trout, at the moment, has been the best player in the league...meaning he is the most valuable by default for any team. And I don't care about Trout either way. He's not an Astro. But the guy is the best player in the AL at the moment. I'd rather it be Bregman or Springer, etc. but it isn't. Bregman has a chance to catch him though. I repeat.......he has not been valuable to his team. Name ONE thing they have accomplished due to his presence. Bregman will probably be in a World Series while Trout sits home......as usual.......and watches. "I repeat.......he has not been valuable to his team."  |
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Post by blcoach8 on Sept 18, 2019 9:52:46 GMT -6
Do you bar-b-que with propane? Just wondering. No....have always used charcoal. Do you slurp your coffee? Just wondering. |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Sept 18, 2019 9:52:48 GMT -6
I don't think I've ever encountered anyone who has been so consistently wrong about such a wide array of subjects. So, I am wrong because I disagree with you and some others? HAHAHA. I assure you I am right on more subjects than you. you call a gold glove caliber outfielder the worst player in baseball....enough said on your baseball knowledge. No, you're wrong because your opinions are not supported by evidence that is plainly clear to everyone else in the United States of America. I suspect that you're purposely contrarian just because you've got some sort of fetish for arguing and playing Devil's Advocate. You can't possibly know as little about baseball as you appear to. So, I think it's all you just pulling our leg. |
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