talshill
Arbitration Eligible
Vini, vici, pavori.
Posts: 2,009
Likes: 1,114
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Post by talshill on Apr 23, 2024 21:12:29 GMT -6
I think we're far enough in to state that this has become a flawed team and at the moment they absolutely suck. This has a 2013 vibe to it. While I'm pretty confident Hader and Pressly won't be terrible all season I believe the handwriting is on the wall for several of these "players".
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talshill
Arbitration Eligible
Vini, vici, pavori.
Posts: 2,009
Likes: 1,114
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Post by talshill on Apr 23, 2024 21:13:11 GMT -6
I can't even bring myself to watch them right now. It's just too painful.
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Post by Saint on Apr 24, 2024 6:46:15 GMT -6
So here's the question:
If we're still this bad (or worse) in June, who do we trade if any? Do we try to rebuild (minus Altuve) or just try to retool a little?
Potential trade pieces (if they start doing better):
Bregman
Pressly
Dubon
Tucker
Framber
Urqiidy
Verlander
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Post by thomasj13 on Apr 24, 2024 7:26:37 GMT -6
So here's the question: If we're still this bad (or worse) in June, who do we trade if any? Do we try to rebuild (minus Altuve) or just try to retool a little? Potential trade pieces (if they start doing better): Bregman Pressly Dubon Tucker Framber Urqiidy Verlander Minus Altuve and Alvarez |
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Post by thomasj13 on Apr 24, 2024 7:28:44 GMT -6
So here's the question: If we're still this bad (or worse) in June, who do we trade if any? Do we try to rebuild (minus Altuve) or just try to retool a little? Potential trade pieces (if they start doing better): Bregman Pressly Dubon Tucker Framber Urqiidy Verlander Hopefully the Astros start hitting and pitching So people like me stop bitching |
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Post by Ashitaka on Apr 24, 2024 8:53:09 GMT -6
So here's the question: If we're still this bad (or worse) in June, who do we trade if any? Do we try to rebuild (minus Altuve) or just try to retool a little? Potential trade pieces (if they start doing better): Bregman Pressly Dubon Tucker Framber Urqiidy Verlander We can't "retool." You have to have a functioning farm system for that. There is not a prospect in our farm system who can replace any of those guys for the next two years aside from Dubon and Urquidy. It's either ride it out and hope things get better, or blow it up. |
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Post by thomasj13 on Apr 24, 2024 8:57:33 GMT -6
So here's the question: If we're still this bad (or worse) in June, who do we trade if any? Do we try to rebuild (minus Altuve) or just try to retool a little? Potential trade pieces (if they start doing better): Bregman Pressly Dubon Tucker Framber Urqiidy Verlander We can't "retool." You have to have a functioning farm system for that. There is not a prospect in our farm system who can replace any of those guys for the next two years aside from Dubon and Urquidy. It's either ride it out and hope things get better, or blow it up. So you’re say there is not a chance? Even the “One out of million” from Dumb and Dumber is more uplifting |
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Post by Saint on Apr 24, 2024 9:49:16 GMT -6
So here's the question: If we're still this bad (or worse) in June, who do we trade if any? Do we try to rebuild (minus Altuve) or just try to retool a little? Potential trade pieces (if they start doing better): Bregman Pressly Dubon Tucker Framber Urqiidy Verlander Minus Altuve and Alvarez Depends on the level of the rebuild. You could get quite a haul for Yordan... |
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Post by Saint on Apr 24, 2024 9:51:18 GMT -6
So here's the question: If we're still this bad (or worse) in June, who do we trade if any? Do we try to rebuild (minus Altuve) or just try to retool a little? Potential trade pieces (if they start doing better): Bregman Pressly Dubon Tucker Framber Urqiidy Verlander We can't "retool." You have to have a functioning farm system for that. There is not a prospect in our farm system who can replace any of those guys for the next two years aside from Dubon and Urquidy. It's either ride it out and hope things get better, or blow it up. Retooling could involve players we get back in trades. Not that I want to, but you could easily trade Tucker for a young OFer and a couple more players. |
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Post by bearbryant on Apr 24, 2024 10:22:06 GMT -6
Ownership and management aren't likely to reassess until seven weeks into the season. After the mid-May homestand we'll probably see quotes from Brown and Crane about roster direction if things still suck
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Post by Saint on Apr 24, 2024 10:55:06 GMT -6
I sure hope we're taking a look at Cooper after he was DFAed by the Cubs. He's nothing fancy, but he'd be an improvement over Abreu and Singleton.
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Post by thomasj13 on Apr 24, 2024 13:27:41 GMT -6
Depends on the level of the rebuild. You could get quite a haul for Yordan... Yordan? |
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Post by Saint on Apr 24, 2024 13:34:53 GMT -6
Depends on the level of the rebuild. You could get quite a haul for Yordan... Yordan? Whoa whoa whoa. I'm just saying! |
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Post by Ashitaka on Apr 24, 2024 13:49:01 GMT -6
We can't "retool." You have to have a functioning farm system for that. There is not a prospect in our farm system who can replace any of those guys for the next two years aside from Dubon and Urquidy. It's either ride it out and hope things get better, or blow it up. Retooling could involve players we get back in trades. Not that I want to, but you could easily trade Tucker for a young OFer and a couple more players. Considering how good Tucker is an his age, the smart play would be to give him an extension. IMO the Altuve/Yordan/Tucker core is critical if you really want to just retool for a year or two instead of a full rebuild. The chances of matching that production with just the prospects you get back in trades is very low. I would extend Tucker, but deal Bregman (once he rights the ship for a few weeks), Framber, Pressly (once HE rights the ship for a few weeks), Bryan Abreu, and Verlander. Those five will net you a pretty massive return combined. You would still have the Altuve/Tucker/Yordan core, plus Diaz and Chas as the basis of a good and controllable lineup. You're going to accept that the bullpen will be atrocious the rest of the year, and you address that in free agency. You keep Javier as he looks like he may be rebounding and is controllable. If Brown turns things around, Blanco remains solid, and Garcia and LMJ return, you will at least have a non-embarrassing rotation situation for next year. Depending on how fast they want this retool to be, you could sign a top-tier arm in the off-season (heck, JV might hit the market again if he declines his player option, you could bring him right back if you wanted). Or if Crane really wants to generate immediate interest next off-season, Juan Soto is hitting the market at age 25. |
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Post by Saint on Apr 24, 2024 13:55:40 GMT -6
Retooling could involve players we get back in trades. Not that I want to, but you could easily trade Tucker for a young OFer and a couple more players. Considering how good Tucker is an his age, the smart play would be to give him an extension. IMO the Altuve/Yordan/Tucker core is critical if you really want to just retool for a year or two instead of a full rebuild. The chances of matching that production with just the prospects you get back in trades is very low. I would extend Tucker, but deal Bregman (once he rights the ship for a few weeks), Framber, Pressly (once HE rights the ship for a few weeks), Bryan Abreu, and Verlander. Those five will net you a pretty massive return combined. You would still have the Altuve/Tucker/Yordan core, plus Diaz and Chas as the basis of a good and controllable lineup. You're going to accept that the bullpen will be atrocious the rest of the year, and you address that in free agency. You keep Javier as he looks like he may be rebounding and is controllable. If Brown turns things around, Blanco remains solid, and Garcia and LMJ return, you will at least have a non-embarrassing rotation situation for next year. Depending on how fast they want this retool to be, you could sign a top-tier arm in the off-season (heck, JV might hit the market again if he declines his player option, you could bring him right back if you wanted). Or if Crane really wants to generate immediate interest next off-season, Juan Soto is hitting the market at age 25. I'm just using Tucker as an example that you can mix things up without completely blowing it up. |
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Post by m240 on Apr 24, 2024 15:41:28 GMT -6
starters are always in demand at the trade deadline and we should have a bunch of them.
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Post by Ashitaka on Apr 24, 2024 16:55:59 GMT -6
theathletic.com/5440815/2024/04/24/astros-spiral-continues/CHICAGO — Twenty-four games into this gruesome season, start the search for an inflection point, an impetus that will inspire some form of meaningful change for a Houston Astros team teetering toward a total disaster.
Losing 7-2 to the Cubs at Wrigley Field on Tuesday turned them into the 159th team since 1901 to drop 17 of its first 24 regular-season games. Only two of those clubs went on to make the playoffs. Four finished with a winning record, including the 2016 Astros who started their season 18-28.
Houston had not been 10 games below .500 since, authoring the closest thing baseball has had to a dynasty in two decades. Tuesday brought the franchise back to a place it presumed was in the past and further into a hole history suggests is almost insurmountable.
“In good moments, we have stretches where we win eight out of 10, and I say we have a great team. I’m going to say the same thing right now: We have great players, guys encouraging each other to go out there and win games,” second baseman Jose Altuve said.
“We still have that team. One game at a time, but I think we can start a good stretch when we win a lot of games and go back to normal.”
Doubting Altuve or the Astros during this golden era is never wise, but rarely has this team resembled the seven clubs that preceded it. This predicament is one most of this core has never needed to combat. Only five teams in franchise history have ever matched this miserable start.
“I sense guys are tired of the situation we are in,” manager Joe Espada said. “The only way to get over that is, we just have to get over the hump. We have to continue to fight. They’re trying. The effort is there. We just have to be better.”
Things can’t continue this way. Houston’s season is in danger of derailing before Memorial Day, a fate no one who follows the Astros could’ve envisioned. A threshold for futility for the front office and ownership group is a mystery — perhaps because it’s never needed to be pondered. A few clutch hits could solve so much. So could the looming return of Framber Valdez, who may start one of Houston’s two games this weekend in Mexico City.
Neither occurrence is a panacea. Clamors for a roster overhaul or a series of call-ups from an infertile farm system aren’t rational. Neither Espada nor general manager Dana Brown have autonomy to cut ties with José Abreu, either.
It’s worth wondering, then, what real change Espada can enact. Five of his starting pitchers reside on the injured list and the depth stowed at Triple A has already been depleted. That Espada’s bosses did little this offseason to address the deficiency looks more misguided with each loss.
A front-loaded 40-man roster and a depleted farm system are being exposed for what little substance they contain. Ire directed at Abreu and Alex Bregman is understandable, but Houston’s lineup still leads the American League with 220 hits and a .263 batting average.
Altuve, Jeremy Peña, Kyle Tucker and Yordan Alvarez have started all 24 games. All four boast an OPS higher than .800.
Tucker, Peña and Alvarez have taken the team’s three most plate appearances with runners in scoring position. Bregman took two more Tuesday, totaling two more rollover groundballs in a month full of them. Bregman is 5-for-21 this season with runners in scoring position. Alvarez, for reference, is 5-for-23.
Sliding Bregman down in the batting order, if only to relieve some pressure, is perhaps Espada’s easiest fix, but how it could affect Peña, who appears as comfortable as he’s ever been batting fifth or sixth, is a legitimate question.
“We’re getting the at-bats to the guys that we want at the plate,” Espada said. “Those are our guys that have carried us for years. We lean on those guys. Those guys have carried us for years. We need to just come through and they need to get some big hits for us.”
Before leaving five more runners aboard Tuesday, the Astros awoke atop the American League with 181 stranded baserunners. Only the Pittsburgh Pirates and Los Angeles Dodgers had left more runners on. Both of those offenses still averaged more runs per game than the 4.17 Houston is mustering.
Before Tuesday’s game, pitchers had thrown the Astros 478 pitches outside the strike zone. The lineup swung at 142 of them — a 29.7 percent chase rate. Major-league average is 27.6 percent. Of the 57 hits Houston has totaled with a runner in scoring position, 39 are singles.
“I want the guys just to understand that this will pass, but we need to make adjustments and we need to do things different,” Espada said before the game. “Our at-bats need to change, how we approach certain parts of the game, we need to make some adjustments. They’re on board. These guys are fighters. These guys are not going to quit.”
Espada is facing a situation that would stagger most first-year skippers. If it is affecting him, the affable 48-year-old is hiding it well. A smile and upbeat attitude still permeate most of his public interactions. He repeats some of the same cliches managers across the sport will utter in April.
Nothing ailing the Astros is a direct result of Espada’s in-game decision-making. Effort is still apparent — Alvarez beating out the back-end of a 4-6-3 double-play ball during Tuesday’s eighth inning is the latest piece of evidence — and the team isn’t making routine fundamental mistakes.
Espada is managing a flawed roster heightened by an injury-ravaged rotation. Eight times, Espada has handed a save situation to someone in baseball’s most expensive bullpen. Six ended in blown saves. No team in the sport has a lower save percentage.
Opponents have scored 26 first-inning runs against the Astros, including five more against J.P. France on Tuesday. Only two teams awoke Tuesday allowing more in the first frame: the Los Angeles Angels and Colorado Rockies.
“You find yourself trying to do too much from the get-go, trying to establish your offense or get some at-bats going, it’s tough when you’re down five, four, three,” Espada said. “It makes it tougher, but we have to find a way. We have eight, nine innings to try to make up for those runs. It’s not ideal, but we have to find a way.”
France got ahead 1-2 against Christopher Morel and Dansby Swanson but still allowed both to reach base. Morel worked a walk and Swanson struck a sharp single before Mike Tauchman swatted a three-run home run into the left-field seats.
Before Tuesday’s game, Houston pitchers had faced 471 hitters in a two-strike count. The staff had a 1.23 WHIP in those situations. Only the Rockies and Chicago White Sox, baseball’s two worst teams, had a higher one.
The Astros have assembled more talent than both of those teams combined. Whether either club is trying to win is a matter of individual interpretation. Grouping the Astros alongside them is almost unfathomable, but numbers are not lying.
“The biggest thing is we just have to play better,” said Bregman, who sports a .555 OPS after 90 plate appearances. “I got confidence in us doing that. Guys in here have incredible makeup. Guys know what they need to do. (We’re a) hard-working team, just keep playing ball, try and win the next game and I have all the confidence in the world this team can turn it around.”
Communication has been one of Espada’s emphases since his promotion this winter. He spent Monday’s off day and Tuesday morning meeting with various players in one-on-one sessions.
“I want the guys just to understand that this will pass,” Espada said of his message
Four hours later, it did not, inviting wonder where this woebegone team will go from here.
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Post by unionstation82 on Apr 24, 2024 19:05:01 GMT -6
I’ve accepted that Bregman is gone. If they don’t extend Tucker, Crane needs to realize that this team won’t have much to draw in the fans.
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Post by Ashitaka on Apr 25, 2024 18:02:15 GMT -6
Astros are on-pace to win 44 games this year, ya'll. Someone needs to be fired.
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Post by bearbryant on Apr 25, 2024 23:04:21 GMT -6
Maybe we'll have a really good draft to look forward to fourteen and a half months from now
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Post by Saint on Apr 26, 2024 7:25:36 GMT -6
One silver lining if we continue to be horrible will be that there will be extra rest this postseason...
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Post by thomasj13 on Apr 26, 2024 7:28:03 GMT -6
One silver lining if we continue to be horrible will be that there will be extra rest this postseason... What Bear implied, a good draft pick. |
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Post by Saint on Apr 26, 2024 7:45:16 GMT -6
One silver lining if we continue to be horrible will be that there will be extra rest this postseason... What Bear implied, a good draft pick. Some higher draft picks, extra rest, and maybe mixing up the roster a little, and then have a strong bounce back year next season. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Apr 26, 2024 8:25:02 GMT -6
One silver lining if we continue to be horrible will be that there will be extra rest this postseason... These bitches had enough rest. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Apr 26, 2024 8:25:51 GMT -6
To build on Todd’s point, at least the minor leaguers who get called up because they keep ignoring the farm will finally get some time off. García had TJS, Brown continues to fail, and France regressed to the mean. Enough working them like mules and get some blue chip prospects for a change. They brought Dana Brown in because of the work he did for the Braves’ farm. Time to get going on that or leave. Trading top prospects for Verlander and Graveman while remaining noncommittal on guys like Bregman and Tucker isn’t looking like the new GM is showing a clear path to anything besides cellar dwelling.
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Post by Saint on Apr 26, 2024 9:22:53 GMT -6
Outside of the Rangers game, France has mostly been decent this year. He has give up 3 or less runs in 3 of his 5 starts, and he's gone at least 5 innings in all of the starts outside of that Rangers game. I was a little surprised to see him be the one moved down. Brown has been far worse than France, plus France has had sustained success for longer than Brown. I would have gone with this until Javier is back:
Verlander
Framber
Blanco
France
Arrighetti (if you take out some bad luck, his numbers have actually been pretty good outside of a couple too many walks)
Not that it matters if the offense doesn't get going.
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Post by bearbryant on Apr 26, 2024 9:50:05 GMT -6
To build on Todd’s point, at least the minor leaguers who get called up because they keep ignoring the farm will finally get some time off. García had TJS, Brown continues to fail, and France regressed to the mean. Enough working them like mules and get some blue chip prospects for a change. They brought Dana Brown in because of the work he did for the Braves’ farm. Time to get going on that or leave. Trading top prospects for Verlander and Graveman while remaining noncommittal on guys like Bregman and Tucker isn’t looking like the new GM is showing a clear path to anything besides cellar dwelling. In an ideal world, fans would've liked Brown taking command and control. Running things using Anthopoulos' models and principles, Atlanta being a top organization and all. The reality is Crane's been in charge since the scandal, and he was looking for a yes man. He was tired of butting heads with the previous GM |
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Post by unionstation82 on Apr 26, 2024 9:51:28 GMT -6
To build on Todd’s point, at least the minor leaguers who get called up because they keep ignoring the farm will finally get some time off. García had TJS, Brown continues to fail, and France regressed to the mean. Enough working them like mules and get some blue chip prospects for a change. They brought Dana Brown in because of the work he did for the Braves’ farm. Time to get going on that or leave. Trading top prospects for Verlander and Graveman while remaining noncommittal on guys like Bregman and Tucker isn’t looking like the new GM is showing a clear path to anything besides cellar dwelling. In an ideal world, fans would've liked Brown taking command and control. Running things using Anthopoulos' models and principles, Atlanta being a top organization and all. The reality is Crane's been in charge since the scandal, and he was looking for a yes man. He was tired of butting heads with the previous GM So then why does Crane never get any blame? |
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Post by bearbryant on Apr 26, 2024 10:08:45 GMT -6
In an ideal world, fans would've liked Brown taking command and control. Running things using Anthopoulos' models and principles, Atlanta being a top organization and all. The reality is Crane's been in charge since the scandal, and he was looking for a yes man. He was tired of butting heads with the previous GM So then why does Crane never get any blame? Not sure the forum you're referring to. He gets plenty of blame here |
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Post by Saint on Apr 26, 2024 10:12:23 GMT -6
In an ideal world, fans would've liked Brown taking command and control. Running things using Anthopoulos' models and principles, Atlanta being a top organization and all. The reality is Crane's been in charge since the scandal, and he was looking for a yes man. He was tired of butting heads with the previous GM So then why does Crane never get any blame? Crane will get more blame if the team's run of success ends and things don't improve. Right now, we have to remember that we're coming off a season when we were one win away from another WS appearance. |
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