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Post by Saint on Oct 2, 2018 9:54:37 GMT -6
The catchers. All stats taken from baseball-reference.com. I feel like all of these grades are probably a little too high, but, the catching position continues to be a very weak position offensively with lower and lower expectations... For a reference point with the grading, realize that Jason Castro's worst season with us OPS-wise was better than both McCann and Maldonado this year.... Let's all hope that Stubbs gets a chance next year and can produce offensively the way he has in the minors in 2018 and 2016.
Brian McCann: C-
.212/.301/.339 7 HR 23 RBI 22 Runs 40 Hits 3 Doubles .640 OPS (79 OPS+) 1.0 WAR
The 7-time AS finally showed his age this year pretty severely, missing a ton of time and greatly under-performing offensively. He had a good start to the season hitting to an .804 OPS through April but then went through a steep decline until bouncing back to a .784 OPS the last dozen or so games he played in. Obviously his knees are becoming an issue. The guy has been one of my favorite players for a long time, but he needs to be prepared to accept a backup role if he wants to continue playing. That being said, he had a 32% success rate throwing out runners, and it's obvious that the veteran pitchers like throwing to him. I don't know what he can still do offensively past this year, but I think it would be worth it to him to try another season and find out. (Not with us unless he took a huge huge pay cut.)
Martin Maldonado: C-
.225/.276/.351 9 HR 44 RBI 39 Runs 84 Hits 18 Doubles .627 OPS (73 OPS+) 0.5 WAR
Maldonado was struggling offensively when he was traded for from the Angels, but managed a nice little two week stretch of pretty strong offense after we got him. Unfortunately that didn't last as he quickly fell back to his regular career numbers and ended up with another very weak offensive season, failing to reach base consistently to a tune of a pathetic .257 OBP with Houston. Despite the weak OBP, he did show the most power while an Astro with a respectable (for a C) .398 SLG, and he has an elite arm when it comes to throwing out baserunners. Despite being 2nd in the league in Passed Balls, the pitchers seemed to like working with him and he is an adequate backup catcher as long as he can continue to control the running game. Hopefully he can find some of that August magic (.867 OPS with 3 HR) in the postseason.
Max Stassi: C
.226/.316/.394 8 HR 27 RBI 28 Runs 50 Hits 13 Doubles .710 OPS (97 OPS+) 1.0 WAR
Out of catchers in the AL with at least 200 ABs, Stassi had the 9th highest OPS (better than Gary Sanchez) and was tied for 10th in WAR (with Brian McCann). It's obvious that he has the most offensive potential for catchers out of our trio, but he certainly tailed off after the AS break and saw a dramatic decline in playing time when McCann came back. Stassi was also an extremely highly rated receiver as a catcher but was only average at throwing out baserunners this year. It seems that the veteran experience of McCann and Maldonado was highly valued by Hinch, and the long season seemed to be draining Stassi as well. That being said, there is a ton to like about Stassi and a potential tandem of him and Stubbs next year.
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Oct 2, 2018 10:13:45 GMT -6
"Blah, blah, blah!!!" - Corch
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Post by Saint on Oct 2, 2018 11:14:24 GMT -6
You think he'll disagree?
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Post by blcoach8 on Oct 2, 2018 11:19:31 GMT -6
You think he'll disagree? Oh no. Why would anyone disagree with you rating the two post-season catchers LOWER than the dud who won't make the roster.  Stassi was a flash in the pan who reverted back to his old self.....useless. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Oct 2, 2018 11:20:08 GMT -6
"Blah, blah, blah!!!" - Corch I expected that bullshit. He's been sniffing Stassi's cup all year |
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Post by Saint on Oct 2, 2018 12:35:57 GMT -6
You think he'll disagree? Oh no. Why would anyone disagree with you rating the two post-season catchers LOWER than the dud who won't make the roster. Stassi was a flash in the pan who reverted back to his old self.....useless. They're there for their veteran experience; not their numbers. And even though you can't seem to understand the massive gap between Stassi and the other catchers' performances, what "old self" for Stassi are you referring to? He has never played close to this much before at this level. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2018 12:37:37 GMT -6
Hmmmmm.... thinking about it, when was the last time the Astros had a viable superstar catcher? (Biggio doesn't count due to his move after a couple of years).
I can't think of one.
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Post by Saint on Oct 2, 2018 12:40:55 GMT -6
Hmmmmm.... thinking about it, when was the last time the Astros had a viable superstar catcher? (Biggio doesn't count due to his move after a couple of years). I can't think of one. I don't know about superstar, but 2012 Castro was damn good all-around. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Oct 2, 2018 12:43:06 GMT -6
Oh no. Why would anyone disagree with you rating the two post-season catchers LOWER than the dud who won't make the roster. Stassi was a flash in the pan who reverted back to his old self.....useless. They're there for their veteran experience; not their numbers. And even though you can't seem to understand the massive gap between Stassi and the other catchers' performances, what "old self" for Stassi are you referring to? He has never played close to this much before at this level. The "old self" where he doesn't hit, can't throw accurately, and doesn't handle pitchers very well. He and Verlander never worked well together. If you ask the pitchers which of the three they had rather work with, Stassi finishes LAST. Maldonado has the superior arm to any of them and to most other catchers in the game He and McCann both frame pitches very well. NONE of the three is a very good hitter. McCann has pop and is more likely to deliver offensively in the playoffs. Stassi would not do squat if he made the roster, which he won't. As I said you keep on dragging up "stats" about Stassi that don't mean shit. He is a AAA catcher who can be an adequate backup in the majors. He is not a #1 catcher on a contending team. Failing to re-sign Maldonado in the off-season would be a big mistake. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Oct 2, 2018 12:44:02 GMT -6
Hmmmmm.... thinking about it, when was the last time the Astros had a viable superstar catcher? (Biggio doesn't count due to his move after a couple of years). I can't think of one. I don't know about superstar, but 2012 Castro was damn good all-around. Castro steadily went downhill after 2012 and became an automatic out at the plate. We let him go....the Twins signed him.....and he has done nothing for them. |
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Post by fanastro on Oct 2, 2018 12:47:51 GMT -6
Stassi deserves at least a B+. He was to be the backup catcher coming out of spring training and he managed a good OPS for a catcher with solid defense.
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Post by Saint on Oct 2, 2018 12:50:48 GMT -6
They're there for their veteran experience; not their numbers. And even though you can't seem to understand the massive gap between Stassi and the other catchers' performances, what "old self" for Stassi are you referring to? He has never played close to this much before at this level. The "old self" where he doesn't hit, can't throw accurately, and doesn't handle pitchers very well. He and Verlander never worked well together. If you ask the pitchers which of the three they had rather work with, Stassi finishes LAST. Maldonado has the superior arm to any of them and to most other catchers in the game He and McCann both frame pitches very well. NONE of the three is a very good hitter. McCann has pop and is more likely to deliver offensively in the playoffs. Stassi would not do squat if he made the roster, which he won't. As I said you keep on dragging up "stats" about Stassi that don't mean shit. He is a AAA catcher who can be an adequate backup in the majors. He is not a #1 catcher on a contending team. Failing to re-sign Maldonado in the off-season would be a big mistake. He has barely played at the MLB level for more than a few games at a time due to injuries the last few years..... There is no "old self" for Stassi. And if HE can't hit, what do you call what Maldonado did this year? He was considerably...CONSIDERABLY....worse. But you seem okay with that. And no, Maldonado doesn't frame well. He's bad at it this year. Just like he is with Passed Balls. You're letting a good arm and a good year LAST YEAR color the rest of your opinion about him right now. In any case, you'll never agree so this is pointless. The performances speak for themselves even if you can't see it. They have a lot of veteran experience which is important in the postseason (and we have enough offense even if they don't hit); therefore they're on the team over Stassi. Stassi will get his chance next year. |
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Post by Saint on Oct 2, 2018 12:51:24 GMT -6
I don't know about superstar, but 2012 Castro was damn good all-around. Castro steadily went downhill after 2012 and became an automatic out at the plate. We let him go....the Twins signed him.....and he has done nothing for them. None of that changes the fact that he was a good catcher in 2012.... The last time we had a good performance from a catcher. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Oct 2, 2018 12:51:44 GMT -6
Stassi deserves at least a B+. He was to be the backup catcher coming out of spring training and he managed a good OPS for a catcher with solid defense. I expect McCann to retire. If we re-sign Maldonado, I can live with Stassi as backup. He would be better or the equal of other backup catchers. |
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Post by Saint on Oct 2, 2018 12:52:00 GMT -6
Stassi deserves at least a B+. He was to be the backup catcher coming out of spring training and he managed a good OPS for a catcher with solid defense. If he'd have maintained his offense from the beginning of the season I would agree with you. He tailed off too much though. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Oct 2, 2018 12:52:42 GMT -6
The "old self" where he doesn't hit, can't throw accurately, and doesn't handle pitchers very well. He and Verlander never worked well together. If you ask the pitchers which of the three they had rather work with, Stassi finishes LAST. Maldonado has the superior arm to any of them and to most other catchers in the game He and McCann both frame pitches very well. NONE of the three is a very good hitter. McCann has pop and is more likely to deliver offensively in the playoffs. Stassi would not do squat if he made the roster, which he won't. As I said you keep on dragging up "stats" about Stassi that don't mean shit. He is a AAA catcher who can be an adequate backup in the majors. He is not a #1 catcher on a contending team. Failing to re-sign Maldonado in the off-season would be a big mistake. He has barely played at the MLB level for more than a few games at a time due to injuries the last few years..... There is no "old self" for Stassi. And if HE can't hit, what do you call what Maldonado did this year? He was considerably...CONSIDERABLY....worse. But you seem okay with that. And no, Maldonado doesn't frame well. He's bad at it this year. Just like he is with Passed Balls. You're letting a good arm and a good year LAST YEAR color the rest of your opinion about him right now. In any case, you'll never agree so this is pointless. The performances speak for themselves even if you can't see it. They have a lot of veteran experience which is important in the postseason (and we have enough offense even if they don't hit); therefore they're on the team over Stassi. Stassi will get his chance next year. I think Stassi should get his chance next year.......not in the playoffs. |
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Post by m240 on Oct 2, 2018 12:53:49 GMT -6
I would love for us to sign Maldonado for a couple of years and trade for Realmuto for next year.
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Post by Saint on Oct 2, 2018 12:57:11 GMT -6
God I hope the FO is smart enough to not waste money on Maldonado..... We have too many other needs over the next couple years to pay for an offensive hole who allows Passed Balls and Wild Pitches at an alarming rate.
Stassi and Stubbs tandem would be super cheap and more effective. Save that money to pay Morton, give Bregman a substantial raise, and sign a legit OFer.
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Post by bearbryant on Oct 2, 2018 14:52:04 GMT -6
Stassi deserves at least a B+. He was to be the backup catcher coming out of spring training and he managed a good OPS for a catcher with solid defense. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Oct 2, 2018 14:58:35 GMT -6
I would love for us to sign Maldonado for a couple of years and trade for Realmuto for next year. I wonder how soon they expect Stubbs to be ready. I would like Realmuto,too, but I can't see that happening. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Oct 2, 2018 15:05:45 GMT -6
God I hope the FO is smart enough to not waste money on Maldonado..... We have too many other needs over the next couple years to pay for an offensive hole who allows Passed Balls and Wild Pitches at an alarming rate. Stassi and Stubbs tandem would be super cheap and more effective. Save that money to pay Morton, give Bregman a substantial raise, and sign a legit OFer. Stassi will NEVER be as good a catcher as Maldonado. Everybody runs on Stassi........very few run on Maldonado. Maldonado will not command a huge salary. If Morton doesn't retire....and I don't think he will.......we will keep him. He likes it here and has had success here. We don't need to re-sign Bregman just yet altough it would be great to get that out of the way. Let Keuchel walk and work Valdez in as a lefty starter. If they don't try to keep Marwin, it will be after Hinch jumps up and down begging them to. Hinch loves Marwin because he can play all over the place. Having him allows them to keep an extra pitcher. Why do we need another outfielder? If Straw, Tucker, or both pan out we can spend that money elsewhere. I hope the front office is smarter than you and do all they can to keep Maldonado. Quality catchers with his arm don't grow on trees. My guess is that Luhnow does all he can to re-sign him.....the pitchers love him. |
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Post by Saint on Oct 2, 2018 15:10:02 GMT -6
God I hope the FO is smart enough to not waste money on Maldonado..... We have too many other needs over the next couple years to pay for an offensive hole who allows Passed Balls and Wild Pitches at an alarming rate. Stassi and Stubbs tandem would be super cheap and more effective. Save that money to pay Morton, give Bregman a substantial raise, and sign a legit OFer. Stassi will NEVER be as good a catcher as Maldonado. Everybody runs on Stassi........very few run on Maldonado. Maldonado will not command a huge salary. If Morton doesn't retire....and I don't think he will.......we will keep him. He likes it here and has had success here. We don't need to re-sign Bregman just yet altough it would be great to get that out of the way. Let Keuchel walk and work Valdez in as a lefty starter. If they don't try to keep Marwin, it will be after Hinch jumps up and down begging them to. Hinch loves Marwin because he can play all over the place. Having him allows them to keep an extra pitcher. Why do we need another outfielder? If Straw, Tucker, or both pan out we can spend that money elsewhere. I hope the front office is smarter than you and do all they can to keep Maldonado. Quality catchers with his arm don't grow on trees. My guess is that Luhnow does all he can to re-sign him.....the pitchers love him. Yeah and White will never contribute to the team according to you. |
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Post by m240 on Oct 2, 2018 15:39:11 GMT -6
I would love for us to sign Maldonado for a couple of years and trade for Realmuto for next year. I wonder how soon they expect Stubbs to be ready. I would like Realmuto,too, but I can't see that happening. seems like Luhnow surprises us with a deal every year. I am hoping that this is the one he makes this winter. |
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Post by m240 on Oct 2, 2018 15:42:14 GMT -6
God I hope the FO is smart enough to not waste money on Maldonado..... We have too many other needs over the next couple years to pay for an offensive hole who allows Passed Balls and Wild Pitches at an alarming rate. Stassi and Stubbs tandem would be super cheap and more effective. Save that money to pay Morton, give Bregman a substantial raise, and sign a legit OFer. Stubbs maybe but I have no faith in Stassi doing again what he did in the first half. Maldonado for a back up would be great. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Oct 2, 2018 15:59:07 GMT -6
Stassi will NEVER be as good a catcher as Maldonado. Everybody runs on Stassi........very few run on Maldonado. Maldonado will not command a huge salary. If Morton doesn't retire....and I don't think he will.......we will keep him. He likes it here and has had success here. We don't need to re-sign Bregman just yet altough it would be great to get that out of the way. Let Keuchel walk and work Valdez in as a lefty starter. If they don't try to keep Marwin, it will be after Hinch jumps up and down begging them to. Hinch loves Marwin because he can play all over the place. Having him allows them to keep an extra pitcher. Why do we need another outfielder? If Straw, Tucker, or both pan out we can spend that money elsewhere. I hope the front office is smarter than you and do all they can to keep Maldonado. Quality catchers with his arm don't grow on trees. My guess is that Luhnow does all he can to re-sign him.....the pitchers love him. Yeah and White will never contribute to the team according to you. What White does has nothing to do with Stassi. Maldonado is TEN times the catcher that your boy Stassi is.....if they thought Stassi is as good as you say he is, why won't he make the post-season roster? Of course, that is not definite yet,but, I don't give Stassi much of a shot unless one of the others is injured and then he could be added. You said Maldonado would not make the post-season roster. Would you care to repeat that?  |
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Post by blcoach8 on Oct 2, 2018 15:59:59 GMT -6
God I hope the FO is smart enough to not waste money on Maldonado..... We have too many other needs over the next couple years to pay for an offensive hole who allows Passed Balls and Wild Pitches at an alarming rate. Stassi and Stubbs tandem would be super cheap and more effective. Save that money to pay Morton, give Bregman a substantial raise, and sign a legit OFer. Stubbs maybe but I have no faith in Stassi doing again what he did in the first half. Maldonado for a back up would be great. If we only have Stassi and Maldonado, Stassi would be the backup. |
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Post by Saint on Oct 2, 2018 21:30:30 GMT -6
Yeah and White will never contribute to the team according to you. What White does has nothing to do with Stassi. Maldonado is TEN times the catcher that your boy Stassi is.....if they thought Stassi is as good as you say he is, why won't he make the post-season roster? Of course, that is not definite yet,but, I don't give Stassi much of a shot unless one of the others is injured and then he could be added. You said Maldonado would not make the post-season roster. Would you care to repeat that? Pathetic offense and bad receiving skills obviously aren't a big factor for Hinch as long as they have veteran experience. No manager is perfect. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Oct 2, 2018 22:18:54 GMT -6
What White does has nothing to do with Stassi. Maldonado is TEN times the catcher that your boy Stassi is.....if they thought Stassi is as good as you say he is, why won't he make the post-season roster? Of course, that is not definite yet,but, I don't give Stassi much of a shot unless one of the others is injured and then he could be added. You said Maldonado would not make the post-season roster. Would you care to repeat that? Pathetic offense and bad receiving skills obviously aren't a big factor for Hinch as long as they have veteran experience. No manager is perfect. Hinch is a hell of a lot more qualified to rate catchers than you . His offense hasn't been that bad after a bad start. We should all be thankful that Maldonado was obtained because at the time we had no idea if or when we would get McCann back and Stassi had already started his decline. Nobody but you is dumb enough to think Maldonado has bad receiving skills. It is obvious that you don't know shit about the makeup of a good defensive catcher. |
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marshall
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Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood...
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Post by marshall on Oct 3, 2018 5:56:14 GMT -6
Hmmmmm.... thinking about it, when was the last time the Astros had a viable superstar catcher? (Biggio doesn't count due to his move after a couple of years). I can't think of one. Ivan Rodriguez was here for a cup of coffee.
Other than that, we're a training ground for future managers at catcher.
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Post by m240 on Oct 3, 2018 6:08:13 GMT -6
that is kind of interesting that we have never had a great catcher before. One year from Castro and a couple from Biggio and nada after that. Even Rodriguez when he played here was on a rapid decent out of baseball.
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Stassi was a flash in the pan who reverted back to his old self.....useless.
